When You Record With Your Gibsons...

[OldManC]

I've been recording with my SB-400 and right now it's my favorite sounding bass when it's solo'd, but overall, all that character and grind sounds pretty woolly and indistinct in a raw mix. Not sure if I'll be able to eq it enough to be heard without overwhelming the rest of the mix (the songs are more poppy and singer/songwriterish than all out rock). If my bandmates and I are happy with these recordings we'll pay to have them mixed by someone who knows what he's doing, but I'm curious as to how you guys approach recording your mahogany Gibsons. Do I have to run through glowing tubes in order to hear this thing in the (recorded) mix?

[Basvarken]

I usually use a mix of a DI signal, the slave-out of the (tube)amp and a microphone in front of the cab.
From those three the slave-out signal is the best and is used as the main signal.

My most used mahogany bass is the Les Paul Bass.
Second is the Greco Thunderbird.
Both have no problem surviving within the band mix.

[Pekka]

I have lately been using my Lab Series L2 and L4 heads and they work great with my Thunderbirds (or any other basses too). Usually with small EBS Classic Line cabs (112 or 210) or and old Hartke with an EV 15". But Lab Series is basically a Gibson amp so that must be it right?

I love their EQ and an ability to dial in good sounding distortion without having to crank them up.

DI too, combined with the mic'ed amp sound.

This one was recorded with the L4, Hartke/EV and non-reverse copy (mahogany). No DI -signal.
https://soundcloud.com/user-40848998/stratus

[Highlander]

Last time I used the PC she was straight to the board, old school (30 years back) ...
Two weekends back was DI out from a Roland Cube 30 for both the PC and the RD ... what I heard on playback sounded good but still got the primary voice, guitars and bgv's to go...

[OldManC]

Thanks, guys! I'll try to mix it up according to your descriptions and see if one of those will work for me.

[Granny Gremlin]

I usually use a mix of a DI signal, the slave-out of the (tube)amp and a microphone in front of the cab.
From those three the slave-out signal is the best and is used as the main signal.

My most used mahogany bass is the Les Paul Bass.
Second is the Greco Thunderbird.
Both have no problem surviving within the band mix.

Careful when mixing multiple sources like this - the phase issues can create mud or comb filtering.  I would pic 2 of those 3 (di or slave out; nearly the same thing anyway, + the mic) and get a time alignment plugin or a Radial Phazer.

I generally do not like DI (except for EB series basses; Mubucker into one of my tube Ampex tape preamps is a glorious thing for spacey sparse mixes; ultimate dub).  I prefer an EV RE20 on a 1x15 for recording, but in the room I'm in now the bass would bleed too much into everything else if recording live so I DI.  This current batch of songs we're working I am planning to reamp the DI track; previously I'd just overdub after the live take.

I am looking into getting a RNDI which can take amp output, cuz I find my Sunn  head is a large part of my tone.  I'd keep it silent (still needs a speaker) with a resistive dummy load.  They're expensive, but I figure it'd be worth it cuz when playing gigs out they always wanna DI the bass vs mic (even wen I bring a mic; they hate a prepared motherf***er) so this would work to ensure I still have my amp in front of house.

[66Atlas]

I've been lucky so far and haven't had any phase issues to note when blending a DI and mic signal.  But that probably just means I'm due for a problem next time 

Lately I've been using a Pearlman TM47 in front of either a Marshall Lead & Bass 50 combo or an Ampeg B100 and have been really happy with both.  I was surprised at what a BIG sound I got out of the little Marshall.  The last round of recording I borrowed a BAE 1073 to use as a DI and it blended well with both amp setups.

The only setup I've used and regretted was an Avalon U5 DI.  I know some guys that love them but I think that thing should be barred from use on a bass.  It sucked all the life out of my tone and ended up re-recording all my parts with something else.

[slinkp]

I'm sure I've said all this before... But nobody else cares about this stuff, so here we go

Back in the 90s when I mostly played the bass from my avatar (all maple Ibanez blazer with alembic activator), it was so bright that I haaaated recording direct. I always tried to get the engineer to use a mic'd cab. It was a wide range instrument and the coloration of the cab was crucial to my tone.  I occasionally got sounds I really liked, but it took a lot of negotiating and experimenting and compromise.

Nowadays I've been very happy with the opposite approach. My cabinets are as neutral as I can get and I play a bass that sounds best to me straight out of the instrument. So for recording I don't bother with micing a cab anymore.

The bass in question is my passive LPB1 that I've raved about plenty here. Mahogany, ebony board, TB plus.

I do tend to take my direct signal from a line out on my amp head.  It's a Genz Benz shuttle. I leave the EQ pretty flat and set the gain for overdrive to taste. This tames the dynamic range a bit, which makes it easier for me to relax and get into the music, and gives me a little more growl without fighting the guitars too much.  It's not essential, but I like what it does.


This is SO much easier than my old approach! It's almost instant plug and go, and the same approach works great live!  Engineers are happier too. The guy who mixes our stuff has said several times he really likes the tone I give him. He usually leaves it EQd pretty close to the original and compresses as he sees fit.

Here's an example played fingers, neck pickup only:
https://soundcloud.com/the-world-record-players/wont-be-long

And one played with pick, both pickups, drop D:
https://soundcloud.com/the-world-record-players/charlatan-the-meek

[Rob]

Nice tracks!

[Basvarken]

I would pic 2 of those 3 (di or slave out; early the same thing anyway, + the mic) and get a time alignment plugin or a Radial Phazer.

In my opinion the ext amp of a V4B is (by far) not the same as a generic direct out that is featured on most amps. Neither is it the same on an Orange AD200. The signal character is very similar to the speaker out.

The (dry) DI signal wasn't used much in the mix. We just recorded it to be able to re-amp the bass tracks.

The phasing has never been a problem, because the studio engineers obviously knew what they were doing ;-)

[doombass]

In my opinion the ext amp of a V4B is (by far) not the same as a generic direct out that is featured on most amps. Neither is it the same on an Orange AD200. The signal character is very similar to the speaker out.

No wonder. The slave output on the AD200B is actually only missing the speaker (or a good speaker simulator). It is simply taken off the 8 Ohms tap of the output transformer. The signal is then tamed by three resistors.

[planetgaffnet]

I don't have glowing tubes, so while live I go through an RBI, studio work I always go through a Sansamp BDDI, dunno, it just sounds better.  I might try and bag one of those new Q-Strip boxes for live applications.

[Granny Gremlin]

I've been lucky so far and haven't had any phase issues to note when blending a DI and mic signal.  But that probably just means I'm due for a problem next time 

More likely it means that you dig the phase differential which in your case is likely either < 45deg or > 225.  Nothing wrong with that.  Sometimes it works (see pickup phase switches).

[Granny Gremlin]

In my opinion the ext amp of a V4B is (by far) not the same as a generic direct out that is featured on most amps. Neither is it the same on an Orange AD200. The signal character is very similar to the speaker out.

The (dry) DI signal wasn't used much in the mix. We just recorded it to be able to re-amp the bass tracks.

The phasing has never been a problem, because the studio engineers obviously knew what they were doing ;-)

Ah, yes, that makes sense; like I said I want the amp out from my Sunn too (instead o DI from instrument) because of what it does... and I may have to shell out stoopid money to be able to do that (there is a Radial box that is much cheaper than the RNDI, but it has this speaker emulation thing that I am not sure if I want and isn't bypassable.... I should probably rent both to test , but I'm not in a rush).

I also forgot you use pro studios - yes those guys know what they're doing (and they likely do this when you're not looking).  Technically you don't need a plugin or hardware - if recording to a DAW, you can simply nudge the DI/Amp out track forward a bit at a time until it sounds best.

I'm also with Slinkp; I usually find pure DI to be much too trebly (though it does tend to cut through the mix very well due to that, it bothers me when monitoring; too forward and makes me play different - again, mudbucker basses are the exception here).

[OldManC]

I don't have glowing tubes, so while live I go through an RBI, studio work I always go through a Sansamp BDDI, dunno, it just sounds better. 

I have one of those but didn't have it in the chain for recording. I'll give it a try. Thanks!