New from Fender

[Alanko]

I hadn't heard that. Why would they have to pay extra to use that?

The website suggested that environmental regs limit nitro to 5%, and Gibson have to pay a surcharge for taking it up to 7%. I'm not totally buying it myself, as I'm sure it depends on total volume of nitro used (and finicky cleanup and disposal steps, audit trails etc), but I suppose it propagates the whole 'Gibson are the tough guys going up against the man' image that arose around the time of the illegal wood debacle.

I like the vanilla smell that comes off of a wall of new Gibson guitars. Is that the lacquer?!?!

[Psycho Bass Guy]

I like the vanilla smell that comes off of a wall of new Gibson guitars. Is that the lacquer?!?!

IMO, that's the smell of the chemical used in the fabric liner of the cases; that's exactly how I would describe my EB's case to smell and the bass carries it with it.  Fender cases smell like Carmex lip balm

[Dave W]

The website suggested that environmental regs limit nitro to 5%, and Gibson have to pay a surcharge for taking it up to 7%. I'm not totally buying it myself, as I'm sure it depends on total volume of nitro used (and finicky cleanup and disposal steps, audit trails etc), but I suppose it propagates the whole 'Gibson are the tough guys going up against the man' image that arose around the time of the illegal wood debacle.

I like the vanilla smell that comes off of a wall of new Gibson guitars. Is that the lacquer?!?!

Now I understand what you mean. It can't be true. There are state and federal hazardous air pollution and waste disposal regulations, but nothing that would limit the percentage of nitro. Not even in California with its more stringent regulations. If it were so, finish manufacturers wouldn't even be able to ship product into Tennessee. Yet you can go into any Sherwin-Williams store and buy their LOVOC nitro. Besides, Gibson is using straight nitro on the Gibson Custom line.

Thanks for the correction on the Fullerplast page, Dave - I had no idea that was so erroneous.

All I can attest to is that in my case, using an acrylic lacquer primer from an auto parts store and Stew-Mac acrylic lacquer for color and top coats produced a very nice finish that buffed well.

I found a 7-year-old thread on FDP where uncle stack-knob and were debunking that page. Must have been one of my last posts there before giving up on the place. 

[Pilgrim]

All I can say in response is that you were wiser than I to come here voluntarily.

Muchas gracias.

[Alanko]

Now I understand what you mean. It can't be true...

I did think it was an over-simplification. I got it from here:

http://www.luthiertalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239

"A thin acrylic lacquer finish will be basically indistinguishable from nitro, except that it won't yellow and crack over time. and you can add up to 7% nitro back to acrylic and still get that yellowing/cracking "effect". which is what Gibson does currently, and they pay a monthly fee to do so because the EPA regs state that the current maximum allowed nitro component is only 5%."

[dadagoboi]

I did think it was an over-simplification. I got it from here:

http://www.luthiertalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239

", and they pay a monthly fee to do so because the EPA regs state that the current maximum allowed nitro component is only 5%."

I'd like to see documentation on this.

Generally the EPA is concerned with VOC levels, Volatile Organic Compounds.  Volatile as in they evaporate, the stuff gets into the atmosphere.  Nitro or acrylic components in finishes are solids.

The reason BOTH nitro and acrylic lacquers are banned in California and other places for industrial use is because the solvent component necessary for application exceeds legally mandated VOC levels.

The automotive acrylic lacquer I use is not legal in California...even though the company that manufactures it is based there.

AFAIK, you don't pay fees to be allowed to break laws, they're called fines.

I'm perfectly willing to be proven wrong but until I see documentation this goes in the bullshit file right next to 'Finishes that allow wood to breathe'.

[Dave W]

I did think it was an over-simplification. I got it from here:

http://www.luthiertalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239

"A thin acrylic lacquer finish will be basically indistinguishable from nitro, except that it won't yellow and crack over time. and you can add up to 7% nitro back to acrylic and still get that yellowing/cracking "effect". which is what Gibson does currently, and they pay a monthly fee to do so because the EPA regs state that the current maximum allowed nitro component is only 5%."

There's no such EPA regulation.

[dadagoboi]

There's no such EPA regulation.

Thanks, Dave, not surprised.

Ad copy I take with a grain of salt.  Undocumented internet postings require a quart of salt water.  Only 6% though, wouldn't want to break the FDA regulations.

[exiledarchangel]

Despite all the propaganda in guitar literature and forums over the years, nitrocellulose lacquer is a plastic finish. It's the first commercially successful plastic finish.

Amen brother! In my book, when something that is supposed to seal and protect the paint, lets the wood underneath to "breath", clearly it doesn't do its job so good and we must get rid of it!

[Jeff Scott]

I played the Elite Jazz and P basses this afternoon.  To me, they were basically the same old, same old.  Perhaps, when Fender comes out with the American Ultimate Final Version (we promise) Never To Be Repeated (well, maybe we will) Super Jazz Bass and American Ultimate Final Version (we promise) Never To Be Repeated (well, maybe we will) Super Precision they will have truly upped the game.  Until that time, they are just rehashing (IMO) the same formula over and over again with a (somewhat) new name.  Oh yeah, the "new, innovative"  truss rod wheel is nice to have, finally, on a Fender, but that is far from a new thing, as we all know. 

[Dave W]

The Elites don't seem much different from the Deluxes they replaced. Haven't seen any in person yet though.

[Jeff Scott]

Regarding model series names that Fender uses, I always liked "American Standard".  I keep waiting for Fender to come up with the TOTO, Gerber, and Kohler series of instruments.............................

[Dave W]

Regarding model series names that Fender uses, I always liked "American Standard".  I keep waiting for Fender to come up with the TOTO, Gerber, and Kohler series of instruments.............................

How about Glacier Bay,  a low end model available only at Home De(s)pot?

[Jeff Scott]

How about Glacier Bay,  a low end model available only at Home De(s)pot?

Yeah, that works!

It probably only comes in white, though.