'66 ThunderBuckers vs Chinabuckers Shootout...with clips.

[dadagoboi]

I bought a pair of ChinaBuckers on Ebay, one had been installed, the other hadn't.  I stuck them in a bass, they sounded OK but lacked something.  I sent them to Steve (ThunderBucker) to scope.

Here's his response:

So I got to compare a set of my 66s against CBs.  They measure out a
little different


Pup        R            L           Q
66N       8.635      3.713      2.095
CBN      8.420      3.031      1.801
66B       9.231      4.371      2.267
CBB      9.382      4.026      2.054


I get a little more L for R  than they do, that could be a difference
in the mag perm of their magnets.  I'd expect my N to be a bit louder
than theirs due to the large diff in L.

That does show up in the VU meters once recorded.

66 NB pair    -5.9
CB NB pair    -5.4

66N            -3.2
CBN           -6.9

L is inductance, the resistance to a change in current flow. It is affected by number of turns squared, and any permeable (iron-like) materials in the magnetic circuit. In this case, mostly the recoil permeability of the alnico magnets (how much they act like iron to a magnetic field)(ferrite magnets don't act like iron at all, they act like air). Q is the ratio of the inductive reactance to the pure DC resistance of the coil. A perfect inductor would have no resistance at all and an infinite Q. Q is also affected by losses in the magnetic circuit, which is mainly eddy current losses in the alnico magnets.

In this case, the CBs seem to be getting less L for equivalent resistance, which is turns basically. Maybe the coils aren't wound as tightly (that would raise R per turn) or their magnets have higher eddy current losses. Either way the differences aren't large. Mainly what I offer is different winds and some customization.


Here's the clips he cut edited together.  Same bass, same strings, same setup, and same riff.

https://soundcloud.com/dadagoboi/chinabuckersmix

ThunderBuckers are first and third clips.  As they say in auto racing, "The last 10% of performance costs 90% more.  YMMV.

[Nocturnal]

To my ears the Thunderbuckers sound more "there" and pronounced. Not saying the ChinaBuckers sound bad, just not as appealing for my taste.

[Dave W]

To my ears the Thunderbuckers sound more "there" and pronounced. Not saying the ChinaBuckers sound bad, just not as appealing for my taste.

I agree. Not sure how to describe the difference, though. Meatier? More presence?

[exiledarchangel]

Chinabuckers sound a bit muted, but the overall character of this pickup design is there. Maybe the covers are not 100% nickel silver alloy, but something inferior that mutes the sound a little. but who cares, they're damn cheap.

[slinkp]

Hmm interesting! What are the pickup combinations in the four parts of the clip?

[Alanko]

To my untuned ears it sounds more like clip two is two pickups?

Hard to say, but none of those tones really make me think that something else is badly needed in the tone department. If I had either pickup, without the field of reference supplied by the other, then I would probably be happy. 

[dadagoboi]

Chinabuckers sound a bit muted, but the overall character of this pickup design is there. Maybe the covers are not 100% nickel silver alloy, but something inferior that mutes the sound a little. but who cares, they're damn cheap.

That seems to be the consensus, ThunderBuckers are livelier.

Covers are the same for all pickups, nickel plated nickel silver. Steve switched to what was available in the market last year after checking them out from Philadelphia Luthiers.  He was tired of making the damn things and I sure as hell didn't want to do it. All ThunderBuckers are potted.  These CBs were too and nicely soldered.

To my untuned ears it sounds more like clip two is two pickups?

Hard to say, but none of those tones really make me think that something else is badly needed in the tone department. If I had either pickup, without the field of reference supplied by the other, then I would probably be happy. 

Hmm interesting! What are the pickup combinations in the four parts of the clip?

Me to Steve before I knew what was what:
I like clips one and three.  They seem to have more harmonic content.

Steve to Me:
1 ThunderBucker 66 N+B
2 CB  N+B
3 ThunderBucker 66 N only
4 CB N only

If I didn't own and really like the tone of actual vintage 60s Thunderbird pickups. I'd probably be happy with Chinabuckers.  Luckily I don't have to be.
 

[veebass]

Really good post, thanks, Carlo.
I run a pair of 9.2K CBs- actually measure N 9.52 and B 9.58 and they sound fuller than the 8K in the neck.

[Alanko]

The first clip doesn't sound like two pickups to me?

[slinkp]

That's the order I would have guessed, but  like Alanko I hear so much neck pickup in clip 1 ... so much that I was emarassed to guess in public in case I was totally wrong   I think I do hear some 2-pickup mids cancellation in clip 1, but surprisingly little, really only by comparing to clip 3. ... the Thunderbucker 66 N seems to be really powerful even with both on, and dominates the 2-pickup sound. 

By contrast, the CB pickups in clip 2 have more of a traditional 2-pickup sound, but the solo CB N in clip 4 is lacking something of the distinctive T-bird character in the mids and treble.  Less bark.  It also seems a little quieter though, which makes it notoriously difficult to fairly compare - we always prefer the louder one

I really do like that TB 66 neck tone... want one!

[patman]

Is the bass the identical bass in both clips?...one and three certainly sound more musical

[lowend1]

Because of my inherent ADD, I didn't initially read "the stuff in red" and went directly to the demo instead. Not knowing what was what, I immediately gravitated to clip 2 as my favorite. Generally speaking, I am a 2-pickup kinda guy and prefer the sound of a bridge pup in the equation - if it has to be biased one way or another. If the Thunderbuckers in clip 1 are running together, there is too much neck pup for my taste - the same reason I don't particularly care for the P-bass sound (without a bridge pup). Pickup placement aside, the Thunderbuckers sound more in-yer-face and "wide", with pronounced mids. More bark rather than growl. Then again, I like the sound of a Bicentennial more than the 60s 'birds that I've played...

[dadagoboi]

Is the bass the identical bass in both clips?...one and three certainly sound more musical

Yes, same strings, same fingers, same bass, and same settings.  I always cut one or the other pickup slightly when using both, it eliminates the cancelling effect you get when both are on 10.  But clips 1&2 were done with both pups full on.

If I'd been there I would have had Steve do a few more my way.  But it's difficult with me in Florida and Steve in Oregon!

[Alanko]

The fourth clip sounds a wee bit more like two pickups than the first clip. Are you sure they aren't sequenced backwards?

[dadagoboi]

The fourth clip sounds a wee bit more like two pickups than the first clip. Are you sure they aren't sequenced backwards?

Yes, I'm sure.