1991 Gibson catalog

[Dave W]

I found this link in a discussion elsewhere about which years LP Studios may have had maple necks. I don't remember ever seeing the Q-90 in a catalog.
http://vintage.catalogs.free.fr/gibson08.pdf

Substituting the 08 in the link with other numbers, I found a few more interesting ones I hadn't seen:
http://vintage.catalogs.free.fr/gibson09.pdf -- 20/20 and Bass IV listed
http://vintage.catalogs.free.fr/gibson10.pdf -- I never realized the G3 offered a "brilliant lead guitar sound"
http://vintage.catalogs.free.fr/gibson12.pdf -- 78 catalog, different from the one at Jules' site
http://vintage.catalogs.free.fr/gibson15.pdf -- the "ultimate instrument"

[Basvarken]

Interesting. Thanks for the links Dave.

[uwe]

Haven't seen those either and never any ad regegarding the Q-90 "Combo" with the PJ Marx pups. That was actually the first work of new kid luthier Phil Jones then who was assigned to give the Q-80 a face lift (and more modern pups than the long-in-the-tooth Grabber pups used on the Q-80 which were sonically a huge step backwards from the Victory pups).

Speaking of PJ Marx, look what happened to him, he now devotes time to more potent products than guitar and bass pick-ups:

"Mr. P. J. Marx serves as Chief of Research & Development at Liberty Ammunition, Inc. Established Liberty Ammunition Inc. in 2005, Prior to Liberty, Mr. Marx served as President of American Trajectory Inc. conducting research on armor and anti-armor and tracer formulations, and developing specialized ammunition for 50BMG, APDS-T, lightweight ceramic composite armor, and lead free frangible small arms projectiles. He began his career as a musician and at Laney Amplification, and later became the President. He serves as Director of Liberty Ammunition, Inc."

This recent vid is not from one of his NAMM shows  :



The lead guitar comment on the G-3 is not that far off, that bass truly has the snappiness of a guitar and really is one of Gibson's best-kept-secret-weapons if snappiness is something you like in your bass. Gibson probably thought about Stingray players when they pushed the G-3. The G-3 is even snappier than a Ric (due to the bolt-on construction versus the Ric's neck-thru) or a maple board P Bass (due to the maple body and possibly its flatter (if larger) shape). If Chris Squire, Geddy Lee or JJ Burnel had ever gotten their hands on one, I believe they would have been in a state of bliss.

[nofi]

you don't need to waste money on this overpriced crap. ammunition prices are going through the roof for every caliber. the only 'bargain' out there are 12 and 20 ga shot shells. i can see the market for paranoid, pencil dick gun freaks but not much else. since the humble .22's still kill more people than everything else combined you don't need this stuff. but since the 9mm is such a weak caliber...

for the record although i have always owned guns
but i really don't care about them anymore. insert your favorite pro gun control argument here.

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Ammo manufacturers just realized that very few of their customers were responsible gun owners and that by creating artificial shortages they could quintuple their profits. It's ironic that you can buy an AR-15 for LESS than enough ammo to shoot it regularly! I watched ammo aisles dry up of 9mm, .223, and .45 acp even as the prices rose steadily. Makes me happy I like "crappy" ammo like .40 S&W.

[nofi]

lets get 'crappy straight. i refer to the super duper hot rod pistol cartridges at near rifle muzzle velocity with a frangible bullet to boot. they are crappy imo because of the price point and silly over engineering. i owned a .40 browning hi power and share your sentiments about that caliber. factory ammo straight out of the box could handle any situation a civilian might get caught up in.

[uwe]

His pick-ups were nothing to write home about. Anodyne is the word.

[Basvarken]

Haven't seen those either and never any ad regegarding the Q-90 "Combo" with the PJ Marx pups. That was actually the first work of new kid luthier Phil Jones then who was assigned to give the Q-80 a face lift (and more modern pups than the long-in-the-tooth Grabber pups used on the Q-80 which were sonically a huge step backwards from the Victory pups).

I thought the design was done by Wayne Charvel. I don't see that much difference between the Q80 shape and the Q90 shape. Except for the headstock.
Or do you mean Phil Jones did just the pickups?

[Psycho Bass Guy]

lets get 'crappy straight. i refer to the super duper hot rod pistol cartridges at near rifle muzzle velocity with a frangible bullet to boot. they are crappy imo because of the price point and silly over engineering. i owned a .40 browning hi power and share your sentiments about that caliber. factory ammo straight out of the box could handle any situation a civilian might get caught up in.

I was taking a swipe at all the online "experts" who insist that ammo shortages were because of govt hoarding, yet .40 S&W is the most prevalent caliber in the 'alphabet soup' arsenal and favored by many states and localities and easy to find. If I want an overpriced pistol wannabe rifle cartridge, FN 5.7mm is plenty: P-90 carbine with holographic sights and I'm drawing smiley faces on targets at 100 yards with something that looks like a sci-fi movie prop, but was I EVER glad my brother was buying the ammo! Belgians know how to make some NICE firearms.

[Dave W]

I thought the design was done by Wayne Charvel. I don't see that much difference between the Q80 shape and the Q90 shape. Except for the headstock.
Or do you mean Phil Jones did just the pickups?

That's what I thought too.

[Pilgrim]

When I see Charvel headstocks, a quote from A Christmas Story comes into my mind:  You'll poke your eye out!

[Dave W]

When I see Charvel headstocks, a quote from A Christmas Story comes into my mind:  You'll poke your eye out!

Same with certain other Gibsons by Wayne Charvel.

[uwe]

WRC designed the Q-80 alright. But greenhorn luthier Phil Jones' first work assigment at Gibson was to give the Q-80 a facelift once WRC had left in a huff. The assignment was constrained: Don't change too much, make it look not quite as monstrous and use the pups of PJ Marx who at this point was being led around at Gibson as Bill Lawrence's new prodigy.

If you look at my SPCB and SRCB prototypes, you can see that the original Q-80 h(ock)e(y)adstock bore quite a resemblance to their batwing headstocks, while the Q-90 (thanks to smaller tuners) is already very tuned down and closer to an Explorer headstock. There was no intention for the Q-90 to be a long lasting model, it was a stop-gap until IV/V and the reissued TBird came along.

[Dave W]

WRC designed the Q-80 alright. But greenhorn luthier Phil Jones' first work assigment at Gibson was to give the Q-80 a facelift once WRC had left in a huff. The assignment was constrained: Don't change too much, make it look not quite as monstrous and use the pups of PJ Marx who at this point was being led around at Gibson as Bill Lawrence's new prodigy.

Did PJ Marx learn from Bill Lawrence, or did Bill just recommend him? I wasn't aware of a connection.

If you look at my SPCB and SRCB prototypes, you can see that the original Q-80 h(ock)e(y)adstock bore quite a resemblance to their batwing headstocks, while the Q-90 (thanks to smaller tuners) is already very tuned down and closer to an Explorer headstock. There was no intention for the Q-90 to be a long lasting model, it was a stop-gap until IV/V and the reissued TBird came along.

IIRC they all came out in 1987, the TBird maybe in late 1986, so I question that. And the Q-90 is right there in the 1991 catalog, well after the IV/V were gone.

[uwe]

You're right re the dates, may be the Q-80 was the stop gap and the Q-90 was just done to use up the remaining Q-80 bodies.

By the early 90ies the Q-90 looked and sounded positively dated - no amount of face lift and new pups could change that.

Whether Marx learned anything from Lawrence I don't know - that Lawrence pushed for him in the Gibson organisation is something I learned from Phil Jones who did not seem to like either of them very much.

Re modern TBirds: I always thought that while 1987 is always given as the (re)introduction year, nothing hit the market until 1988. In 1986, TBirds were still made for Japan with the anemic Bicentennial pups and I have a Custom Shop TBird from as late as early December 1987 that features

- the old huge headstock,
- large tuners,
- output jack on the face of the body,
- a flimsily thin neck/headstock zone that even for TB standards is asking for trouble, plus
- really meek sounding - what look like - TB Plus pups, they obviously did something to those even in the 87 versions that graced the IV or V, perhaps the Custom Shop wanted to emulate the sound of the Bicentennial pups with them.

My info has been that the first reissued TBirds were all made by the Custom Shop and that production was only eased over to the regular manufacturing line after the Custom Shop line had expired. But I might be mistaken and they were produced side by side for a while.