LP Sig vs. JC Sig

[Mungi]

Here's an opportunity to compare the Jackbass with the LP Sig and the Alembic modded Starfire through the Versatone. Same song - Hesitation Blues - in all clips, but the sound quality varies. The sound scape is kind of similar I think. But to my ears the Starfire wins.

Jackbass -

LP Sig -

Starfire -

[Chris P.]

I think it's almost impossible to judge a bass' sound on YouTube. Same with amps. Youtube-sounds are very compressed, which sound great for bass in some cases, but not all cases. And of course you never know how a bass or amp is mic'ed and/or DI'd.

[SGD Lutherie]

Don't forget that the Starfire is an active bass. Each pickup has a a transistor emitter follower buffer built in, and other electronics. I think Rick Turner also added magnets to the Bi-Sonics. So we aren't hearing just the pickups.

I like the tone in the first video, but its also the best sound quality. The Starfire sounds kind of thin and clanky.

[mc2NY]

Man, those videos sure bring back memories of seeing electric Hot Tuna live a couple times back at their peak with Papa John Creach...then acoustic Jorma/Jack at some NAMM shows.

One of the few acts sans drummer that I really can appreciate.

[wagdog]

Over at Harmony Central, someone was saying they inherited one, and was asking about it. A user there said he owned Carol Kaye's Versatone, had acquired the rights to the name, and was making clones.

Maricopaa is the person's user handle.  That name's awfully familiar.  Isn't he a member here?  I would love to see someone reissue this amp since originals are near impossible to find.

[SGD Lutherie]

Maricopaa is the person's user handle.  That name's awfully familiar.  Isn't he a member here?  I would love to see someone reissue this amp since originals are near impossible to find.

I sent him a message before about the amps.

[Dave W]

Maricopaa is a member here, but he hasn't checked in here or at Jules' forum in over a year. He did have very limited internet access (just a webtv email) so unless that's changed don't expect a quick reply.

[Mungi]

I think it's almost impossible to judge a bass' sound on YouTube. Same with amps. Youtube-sounds are very compressed, which sound great for bass in some cases, but not all cases. And of course you never know how a bass or amp is mic'ed and/or DI'd.

Of course it is impossible to judge sounds on youtube clips. But with a little bit of imagination one can at least get some idea of what sound one get from those basses, not to judge them but to discuss them.

[Mungi]

Don't forget that the Starfire is an active bass. Each pickup has a a transistor emitter follower buffer built in, and other electronics. I think Rick Turner also added magnets to the Bi-Sonics. So we aren't hearing just the pickups.

I like the tone in the first video, but its also the best sound quality. The Starfire sounds kind of thin and clanky.

Yes, the first thing Jack did on his Starfire was to add a magnet. But would think that was only in the neck pickup. The bisonic neck pickup has only one magnet while the bridge pickup got two. Jack did that on his first Starfire (the clips shows his second one) before Turner got his hands on it. When they made it active I think Rick Turner actually rewound the whole pickup. I got a Hagström with bisonics and they don't sound like that. Got a Starfire with DS also, and it doesn't sound like that either. The bisonics and the DS sounds different from each other, but you can hear that they have a kind of similar sound scape as Jack's Starfire. I would say.

Another thing one can notice in the clips is how Jack's playing has changed over the years. When his playing style has changed, so has his sound preferences. His ideal now seems to be to have a very clean sound, no mud but enough punch and with lots of mid that gets through and works well in an acoustic setting. That's pretty much his Signature.

[Chris P.]

You are right on the discussing part, Mungi!

[Mungi]

You are right on the discussing part, Mungi!

And you are right on the judge part!

[SGD Lutherie]

Yes, the first thing Jack did on his Starfire was to add a magnet. But would think that was only in the neck pickup. The bisonic neck pickup has only one magnet while the bridge pickup got two. Jack did that on his first Starfire (the clips shows his second one) before Turner got his hands on it. When they made it active I think Rick Turner actually rewound the whole pickup. I got a Hagström with bisonics and they don't sound like that. Got a Starfire with DS also, and it doesn't sound like that either. The bisonics and the DS sounds different from each other, but you can hear that they have a kind of similar sound scape as Jack's Starfire. I would say.

Another thing one can notice in the clips is how Jack's playing has changed over the years. When his playing style has changed, so has his sound preferences. His ideal now seems to be to have a very clean sound, no mud but enough punch and with lots of mid that gets through and works well in an acoustic setting. That's pretty much his Signature.

Thanks for the info! I did not know that only the neck pickup had one magnet.

I'm the moderator over at the Pickup Makers Forum, which is part of the Music Electronics Forum, and Rick Turner had recently joined over there, much to my delight! He was a regular poster there for a while, until one of the members started arguing with him, and now he hasn't been seen in a while. But I think I'll send him a message and see if he has any insight on Jack's pickups. When I started winding pickups, the tone in my head was that Alembic/Lesh/Casady tone.

There's also been lots of discussion on low impedance pickups by a few members.

[Mungi]

Thanks for the info! I did not know that only the neck pickup had one magnet.

I'm the moderator over at the Pickup Makers Forum, which is part of the Music Electronics Forum, and Rick Turner had recently joined over there, much to my delight! He was a regular poster there for a while, until one of the members started arguing with him, and now he hasn't been seen in a while. But I think I'll send him a message and see if he has any insight on Jack's pickups. When I started winding pickups, the tone in my head was that Alembic/Lesh/Casady tone.

There's also been lots of discussion on low impedance pickups by a few members.

You are welcome! Glad I could contribute for once.

Not only does the neck pickup only have one magnet - the bridge pickup's got a higher chrome frame than the neck pickup. This is on my Hagström Coronado IV. I don't know about Guilds. Anyway, because of the one magnet less in the neck pickup and the higher chrome frame of the bridge pickup, the latter dominates the sound even when both are on full. I put in an extra magnet in my neck pickup. I think it improved the sound somewhat. The DS has the same chrome frame as the neck pickup.

Why anyone would argue on the net about pickups is beyond me. Why anyone would do it Rick Turner is even beyond me beyond beyond it ( ). Glad he is back! Would love to hear a detailed history of Jack's and Phil's basses. Did they rewind the bisonics? I know they went active because they noticed the bisonics had a significant treble loss when they added cable for all the electronics they wanted to put in the basses.

[SGD Lutherie]

Why anyone would argue on the net about pickups is beyond me. Why anyone would do it Rick Turner is even beyond me beyond beyond it ( ). Glad he is back! Would love to hear a detailed history of Jack's and Phil's basses. Did they rewind the bisonics? I know they went active because they noticed the bisonics had a significant treble loss when they added cable for all the electronics they wanted to put in the basses.

Well there's a guy there who's a scientist, and while he's a smart guy, he gets hung up on some of the minutiae and will argue that things don't work that way, etc.

Rick is more of a fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants guy, and while he has much more experience and talent, he's not quite as scientific about it.

But I say you have to respect the man, even if he has some details wrong! His contribution to the world of bass is immeasurable, in my humble opinion.

Plus he seems like a cool guy. I got to pick his brain a bit, which was quite exciting.

I have read that they measured the Bi-Sonics, and they had a very wide frequency range, and that they added the transistor buffer. Then Rick's pickups had a wider frequency range, so it doesn't sound like they rewound the Bi-Sonics.