Music genre and life expectancy

Psycho Bass Guy · July 28, 2016, 06:22:12 PM

That settles it. I'm officially undead:

Aussie Mark · July 28, 2016, 07:29:13 PM

Quote from: uwe on July 28, 2016, 09:06:11 AM
Heavy metal - even the most depressive and desolate one - puts me in a good mood!
Heavy metal is like McDonalds: A guilty pleasure, not good for you, you can't always take it seriously, but utterly reliable in its soothing effect. Not to be missed.

True, however the videos you posted are great heavy rock, with not a Cookie Monster vocal or guitars detuned to C to be heard anywhere. When I think "metal", Sabbath or Metallica are not what I mean - that's just ROCK :-)

uwe · July 29, 2016, 03:37:08 AM

Whether something is rock, hard rock, heavy rock or heavy metal, is not so much decided by scientific criteria but by religious faith, that is why I wanted to avoid discussing it!

But even something like Slipknot can entertain me as I marvel about the intricate riffing and the cookie monster vocals sound so OTT silly. It's an interesting soundscape concept - for about one song.

wellREDman · July 29, 2016, 02:35:24 PM

lol at cookie monster vocals, that so sums them up. is that an established term I haven't heard about or have you just christened it? all of the proponents i have talked with called it screaming which I never felt was right

I used to really hate them but have found with exposure over the years I have come to appreciate the nuances, i followed a similar trajectory with Bob Dylan's whining in my twenties and now he's one of my favourites.

I actually had a go at doing some on a college project and its surprisingly hard to get it to sound right

slinkp · July 29, 2016, 05:55:44 PM

Apparently the term has been around for a while! http://web.archive.org/web/20090103110228/http://opinionjournal.com/la/?id=110007902

Pilgrim · July 29, 2016, 06:20:06 PM

I can't handle "cookie monster" sound. To me it's not singing, and I can't understand a word of it, but the sound annoys me.

Psycho Bass Guy · July 29, 2016, 09:02:53 PM

The wiki entry is surprisingly detailed and it may upset some of you that the first pseudo-cookie rumblings are attributed to "Boris the Spider." I always thought that Cris Barnes from Cannibal Corpse and Barney Greenway from Napalm Death were the first do so exclusively. Lots of what you guys call "cookie monster vocals" isn't by strict definition but I can easily see that the subtle distinctions most metal diehards make are meaningless unless you understand the difference between death metal, black metal, grindcore and thrash. Slipknot is none of these, and much more of a pop/heavy rock act if only because Corey Taylor can actually sing at all. True "cookie monsters" can't. To underscore just how micro-niche it is, each of the videos I posted earlier can be said to represent different styles of metal with the only overlap being between Pantera and Lamb of God both able to be termed groove metal, mainly because they have audible basslines and good players laying them down.

wellREDman · July 30, 2016, 07:14:27 AM

my attempts at cookie monster

https://soundcloud.com/paul-selkirk/my-little-shoggoth-parlour-trick

uwe · August 01, 2016, 06:03:24 AM

"Slipknot is none of these, and much more of a pop/heavy rock act if only because Corey Taylor can actually sing at all. True "cookie monsters" can't."

Ok, I have to learn to live with the fact that Slipknot are then a Patridge Family with horror film masks of sorts!

I actually like Taylor's singing when he does it in his day job, but even more with Stone Sour.

I didn't know that the "growl" ruled out singing per se - some people change over time, the Nightwish leader/bassist used to be a severe growler intiailly and only hints at it today. To me it's sort of the other side of the spectrum to what Kind Diamond did.

I never got him in the 80ies, but recently took the brave step of buying Abigail and listening to it all the way through in the car too. Probably won't repeat that exercise too often though! Thinking about it - when he did not screech, he growled too, so he must have been among the first growlers together with those lovely harmony singers from Venom of course!

And I guess Lemmy was halfway there with his singing style in Motörhead (he was a lot more melodic both vocally and on the bass in Hawkwind daze). When I first saw Motörhead around 1978 or so, I did not qualify what Lemmy did as "singing" at all.

Psycho Bass Guy · August 02, 2016, 12:07:22 AM

Is 1964 too early?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=29&v=N7WqVSq_QgY

Quote from: uwe on August 01, 2016, 06:03:24 AMOk, I have to learn to live with the fact that Slipknot are then a Patridge Family with horror film masks of sorts!

Winky face not necessary; that's how I think of them. I like Stone Sour much better, but Slipknot is OK. I dealt with too many of their kiddy fans in my music store days and it soured me (no pun) on them a bit.

QuoteI didn't know that the "growl" ruled out singing per se

...per my personal definition, BUT I am a longtime metalhead and I've noticed lots of ideas I've had for years are surfacing in the metal "mainstream" now that the journalists and label guys are around my age now. Right now, I'm WAY into current gen black(ish/ened) metal because the bands they built on are bands I've already loved for years: Kvelertak, Behemoth, Dimmu Borgir, etc. European extreme (and not-so-extreme) metal used to be so stodgy and pretentious, and now that it's loosening up and learning to groove, it's much better. I think Entombed started that.

QuoteTo me it's sort of the other side of the spectrum to what King Diamond did.

I never got him in the 80ies, but recently took the brave step of buying Abigail and listening to it all the way through in the car too. Probably won't repeat that exercise too often though! Thinking about it - when he did not screech, he growled too, so he must have been among the first growlers together with those lovely harmony singers from Venom of course!

Mercyful Fate is more raw, and like early Metallica, the foundation from King Diamond sprang more towards hard rock sounds.

QuoteAnd I guess Lemmy was halfway there with his singing style in Motörhead (he was a lot more melodic both vocally and on the bass in Hawkwind daze). When I first saw Motörhead around 1978 or so, I did not qualify what Lemmy did as "singing" at all.

Venom is often characterized as a "Satanic Motörhead." I disagree. Motörhead is much better musically, but I do see why folks say that. Venom has good songs when other people cover them:

Dave W · August 02, 2016, 01:14:30 PM

The Crusher was a salute to the wrestler.

What a golden voice!

Pilgrim · August 02, 2016, 05:10:46 PM

I'm going to see Dick Dale Saturday night in Denver. He's 79, has beaten cancer twice (at quite a cost) and is still touring.

Clearly, surf music is good for you!

Interesting article from last summer about his health...I didn't know much of this about his physical condition.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/6663777/surf-guitar-legend-dick-dale-touring-illness

exiledarchangel · August 03, 2016, 01:13:14 AM

Quote from: Psycho Bass Guy on August 02, 2016, 12:07:22 AM

European extreme (and not-so-extreme) metal used to be so stodgy and pretentious, and now that it's loosening up and learning to groove, it's much better. I think Entombed started that.

True, but think that most of those stodgy and pretentious guys were like that because they were 18. Now they are older and a bit wiser/relaxed/openminded (take your pick) and they have influenced for the second time in their life alot of new bands. Darkthrone has helped on this a lot. I really admire Fenriz, he is for Black what was Lemmy for, well, all Metal, an extremely cool guy that doesn't need to prove anything. I really enjoy his Soundcloud Radio, lots of new and interesting stuff, you should check it.