The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Outpost Cafe => Topic started by: drbassman on September 23, 2015, 02:01:35 PM
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Cheating on diesel emissions is a bit over the top. :-[
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If you cannot trust german engineers, end IS near! :P
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Vorsprung durch sleight-of-software.
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I still love my TDI Golf. Even more so now that I know she's a dirtier girl than I originally thought.
OK that got weird.
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I know nothing............. 8)
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Knowing that lot they were probably ducting excess emissions into the cabin. Strictly for the export market, mind. :P
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Do you guys think Volkswagen is the only one who's been messing with emission software? :rolleyes:
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Do you guys think Volkswagen is the only one who's been messing with emission software? :rolleyes:
Good point! I wonder what Fiat and BMW are up to? ;D Let's not jump to conclusions because of one bad apple. I doubt US companies are doing it. Heck, we can't even get a web site for Obamacare up and working after spending $600 million plus! :P
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Do you guys think Volkswagen is the only one who's been messing with emission software? :rolleyes:
Apparently not. By proxy any part of the VW family will be implicated, and I read in the news that other manufacturers might be guilty as well. I would consider this an 'Emissionsgate' affair that will wrangle for a while.
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Audi is family. Seat is family. Porsche is family...
And why would Germans be worse than the French or the Italians? Peugeot, Citroën, Alfa Romeo, Fiat, etc etc.
Get ready for a "cycling doping scandal" XXL
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This may be a nice business opportunity for some American cars when the backlash occurs.
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Whats makes you think American cars aren't affected?
I'd say any car with software under the hood is candidate
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To ze Russian front with them!
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Whats makes you think American cars aren't affected?
I'd say any car with software under the hood is candidate
Especially American ones. ;)
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One thing I'm curious about is how the car computer knows when an emissions test is being done - like is there a sensor on the tailpipe or something?
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I still love my TDI Golf. Even more so now that I know she's a dirtier girl than I originally thought.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA DAMMIT!!!
OK that got weird.
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One thing I'm curious about is how the car computer knows when an emissions test is being done - like is there a sensor on the tailpipe or something?
I read that they may have used a combination of sensors to detect when the vehicle is in a "test scenario" - e.g. steering wheel is straight, drive wheels are accelerating to and holding 30mph for a certain amount of time, etc.. as it would be in the emissions testing facility.
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It wouldn't shock me if this turns out to be widespread, but I won't jump to conclusions.....yet.
GM won't be involved, though, no one there bright enough to pull it off. Only thing they're good at is flooding the airwaves with shitty commercials.
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(http://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/volkswagen-logo-steam-engine-train-massive-smoke.jpg)
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Jake's question and Joe's reply to it is correct... the testing is "predictable" and the software is designed to "know" when it is being carried out...
Well, I can say this much (with some notable exceptions), as there is no longer any "British" manufacturer, were in the clear (as CO... COugh, COugh...) ;)
ps another glorious day in the Highlands... Bit like Australia and NZ ... hardly anyone here... :mrgreen:
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I read that they may have used a combination of sensors to detect when the vehicle is in a "test scenario" - e.g. steering wheel is straight, drive wheels are accelerating to and holding 30mph for a certain amount of time, etc.. as it would be in the emissions testing facility.
That's right:
"Since 2009, we now know, Volkswagen had been inserting intricate code in its vehicle software that tracked steering and pedal movements. When those movements suggested that the car was being tested for nitrogen-oxide emissions in a lab, the car automatically turned its pollution controls on. The rest of the time, the pollution controls switched off."
http://www.vox.com/2015/9/21/9365667/volkswagen-clean-diesel-recall-passenger-cars
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I have the same thoughts as Rob Basvarken. VW is Porsche (hardly any Diesels), Skoda, Seat, Audi, and some brands using their engines. But if VW does it, and I think the doping comparison is very good, others will do it. BMW has some problems now, but Opel (Vauxhall, GM in General) said they didn't use it... I'm very curious. I also think this is just the beginning and VW gets all the blame now.
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I'm rubbing my eyes, a Dutchman defending deutsche carmakers caught cheating? The world is off-kilter ... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Some hilarious comments here, love the Volkswagen choo-choo and "Vorsprung durch sleight-of-software" - you guys are a hoot!
(https://epicyearproject.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/hobbits-clapping.gif)
Dave, that comment on GM was nasty, you know how I was raised on GM money! They also paid for my visit of The American School of Kinshasa and if it hadn't been for that I would have probably never gotten to know Loggins & Messina and Three Dog Night!
Back to the topic. I'm not surprised (except a little at the uproar): In my cynical world view I take it for granted that all auto makers - except for Rolls Royce and Ferrari who say: "If you ask that question you should maybe get another car." - lie about fuel consumption. I've never driven a car anyway near the proclaimed fuel consumption nor do I know anyone who has. Similarly, I naturally assumed that all the carbon emmission values thing is bullshit too - as an owner of both Status and Parker basses my carbon footprint is in any case irrelevant to me and should well be nor have I ever given a thought whether my 300 hp bi-turbo Volvo is good for the environment, it sure is no fuel-saver! - and that the testing is geared to deliver certain results (my brother is a learned car mechanic, ok?). Did others do it as well? Most likely. Does that exculpate Volkswagen? Not a bit. But I won't lose any sleep over it, they'll survive, they can still produce good cars (although I hated my beetle even back then, crap car) in good quality and as I said: My heart beats DNA-ingrained for GM. Detroit is closer to me than Wolfsburg (I've been to Detroit, but never been to Wolfsburg, it is unfathomable to me what would possess someone to go there 8)).
(http://images.bidorbuy.co.za/user_images/330/975330/975330_150206081101_al.jpg)
The fact that their stock value slumps to 60% because of this just confirms to me once more that the world of stock trading is a madhatters' casino.
Did I mention that I hate the look of a Golf? It's the P Bass of cars. :mrgreen:
Volkswagen will now receive/are now receiving a horrendous amount of stick, but they have resilience. May 1945 was worse after all.
(http://www.belowodje.ch/image/021.jpg)
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VW announce new all-electric transport aircraft...
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/Vega_Air_Antonov_An-12_JDK.jpg)
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Audi is family. Seat is family. Porsche is family...
Yup, sure looks like the fallout is spreading through the family: http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/09/24/us-audi-scandal-idUSKCN0RO19S20150924
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Did I mention that I hate the look of a Golf? It's the P Bass of cars. :mrgreen:
Sizist! ;P Just becasue you're a giant doesn't mean you should discriminate against cute little girls (yes, I think Golfs are cute - GTIs are even better looking IMHO but they don't come in a diesel version so not interested). .... this reminds me of a picture from before we left the fatherland; my uncle (similarly a tall fellow) bending over to talk to me in front of his white Fiat mini (the 2 cars available under communism were the mini and the, only comparatively, 'large' Fiats - most people had the mini). The car looks like a toy (and apparently, as another uncle once told me, the original issue of the Fiat mini had but a single cylinder). I should scan that pic; love that one.
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gm has stuff recalled all the time. only because they can't build anything right first time around.
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I'm not a stock market investor, but if I were, yesterday I'd have bought a BUNCH of VW stock.
They're like the German Terminator: "I'll be back."
(I'd use the term Germinator, but I'm not into horticulture.) :mrgreen:
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True, they are a good investment now. But we have a policy here according to which partners in the firm cannot buy stock fullstop due to the affiliated potential insider trading risks.
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Yep - I was looking into grabbing some stock yesterday but then got busy. Maybe not such a bad thing because it might not have hit bottom yet.
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Subaru's RULE!
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Nothing oozes rock'n'roll like a Subaroo!
Can we please have a pic of you doing Tawny Kitaen on the hood of yours?
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f8/f5/b9/f8f5b927f4c51cd8510b220fcbddb3cf.jpg)
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Don't egg our dear Frauline on into foolishness, Uwe. As good as Subarus are they are not very rock n roll (neither are VWs). ... I must admit I found it entertaining when the Impreza first came out because that translates as "party" or "event" in some Slavic languages.
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gm has stuff recalled all the time. only because they can't build anything right first time around.
They can't even get their commercials right. "A pitcher who can paint the corners is known as a Rembrandt." I've never heard that and I've been following baseball for 60+ years. It sounds like a term only a fool like Tim McCarver would dream up, but even he's not responsible for that. And then they go on to say that GMC offers that kind of precision. Yeah, right. When I think of precision, General Motors is at the bottom of the list.
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Dave is reminding me of that character/cameo on Who's the Boss (I wanna say it was Rob Lowe but it's not in his IMDB filmography) where Tony outs the shennanigans of this corporate bastard to potential foreign investors and the response is "Don't listen to him; he still drives an American car."
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They can't even get their commercials right. "A pitcher who can paint the corners is known as a Rembrandt." I've never heard that and I've been following baseball for 60+ years. It sounds like a term only a fool like Tim McCarver would dream up, but even he's not responsible for that. And then they go on to say that GMC offers that kind of precision. Yeah, right. When I think of precision, General Motors is at the bottom of the list.
Not to mention (as I did some weeks ago) that the music behind their commercial about being genuine and precision-made has the Who's "Eminence Front" as background music. Brilliant incorrect choice; makes me wonder if the ad agency found GM so hard to work with that they sabotaged the commercial by choosing that music.
Meanwhile, VW is running commercials with horny old ladies teasing a handsome young salesman on a test drive. Not sure what that's about.
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Ahhhh, back then she was indeed quite beautiful - since then, not so much, and it's not age I'm talking about, just way too many plastic surgeries. Shane.
Nothing oozes rock'n'roll like a Subaroo!
Can we please have a pic of you doing Tawny Kitaen on the hood of yours?
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/f8/f5/b9/f8f5b927f4c51cd8510b220fcbddb3cf.jpg)
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She was at all times a piece of work. I'm reading a Whitesnake bio right now and since she didn't get along with Vivian Campbell's GF at the time, she demanded that she no longer be there on tours of the band (unlike Tawny, who was there constantly). So when DC dutifully revealed this to VC, the latter said quietly: "You know what that means, Dave ..." and left the band. To join Def Leppard. More disastrous career moves have happened.
Incidentally, DC's daughter Jessica (he always dug the Allman Brothers) from his first marriage with his German wife Julia (which he got to know in DP days while recording in Munich) runs an upmarket vintage furniture and design shop in Munich these days. You can tell dad in her face, that chin ... :)
(http://www.exklusiv-muenchen.de/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/jessica-schroeder-coverdale-Fotocredit-Brauer-photos-fuer-jj-company.jpg)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/7f/90/df/7f90df5d87c2bb04ba51dcb15fb36b22.jpg)
And to round up this trolling post of inconsequential trivia: "Here I go Again"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leo45yEkino
was written about David's separation from Julia. Never mind how he then had Fräulein Kitaen prancing around and polishing Jag hoods with her butt in the (four years later) vid that conquered MTV.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wt8LbgPU1A
Hey Rob, with all due respect to your Dutch countryman and his otherwise proven capabilities, Vandenberg's solo on this 87 version is totally overdone and stilted. :-\
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There's a business maxim to be learned here for those that are not aware of it already...
If you are going to cheat, don't get caught...
I suspect a lot of manufacturers are going to be put in the frame in the near future... stones and glass houses anyone...?
Any footie fans out there ... Blatter's back in the news, not that that has any relevance to the comment I've just made, in any way, shape, or form...
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Hey Rob, with all due respect to your Dutch countryman and his otherwise proven capabilities, Vandenberg's solo on this 87 version is totally overdone and stilted.
Yup. Agreed. I prefer the album version with the Sykes solo.
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I'm rubbing my eyes, a Dutchman defending deutsche carmakers caught cheating? The world is off-kilter ... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I don't think I'm defending VW. It's more that I suspect all the other car companies too.
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i can see where uwe got his over the neck fretting gimmick. :sad: although i did see it done in the early seventies. :o
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Shall it be the end of VW era?
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Wasn't that Coverdale fellow the singer in the third iteration of a popular British hard rock outfit featuring a certain temperamental lead guitarist?
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Shall it be the end of VW era?
Of course not. They will perform ablutions, spend a potload of money fixing the cars, and resume normal operation.
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Of course not. They will perform ablutions, spend a potload of money fixing the cars, and resume normal operation.
I agree. If GM can survive, VW certainly can. My daughter recently bought a new Passat, what a beautiful car, inside and out.
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WV is just too big to fail. Just like Germany. ;)
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... My daughter recently bought a new Passat, what a beautiful car, inside and out.
Not if you're 6'1", which I presume she is nowhere near... The 2012 Passat I had for work had a huge front windo post that I had to dodge my head from side-to-side to see round, and the only way I could overcome the rear-view mirror taking up 1/2 of my vision was to wind the seat right down and peer under it... oh yes, and the leg room and my un-svelte-like leg trunks (as opposed to the Fraulein's) ...
Now... my T3 was the best van I've ever driven, end...of...story... just loved that beast...
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Wasn't that Coverdale fellow the singer in the third iteration of a popular British hard rock outfit featuring a certain temperamental lead guitarist?
It would be easier to list the people that haven't been in DP.......... :P
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i can see where uwe got his over the neck fretting gimmick. :sad: although i did see it done in the early seventies. :o
Guilty as charged. I found Sarzo hugely impressive with Quiet Riot. With Whitesnake and turned blond he was disappointing.
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i can see where uwe got his over the neck fretting gimmick. :sad: although i did see it done in the early seventies. :o
I wonder how far back that goes. I distinctly recall reading eyewitness accounts that Entwistle did that in the Who's early days playing clubs (would have been 64 or 65), though I've never seen photos of him doing it. And I tend to assume the earliest example of something I've heard of is not the very first time someone did it.
Sarzo is probably the only guy I've seen to reach his right hand up from under the body:
(http://highwiredaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/rudymini-300x232-480x270.png)
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Thinking about it, I saw it first with the great John McCoy, here at 1:31 and in the second vid at 1:42, whose ostinate root note in eighths pick-playing (and continuous dampening with his fretting hand) was an even bigger influence on me than Herr Sarzo's fretboard magic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqXTAXLrb7Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmX5n59fe2o
Sarzo had better chest hair though. Say what you will about Quiet Riot, but in the '83 RockPop show in Dortmund
(http://www.rockcinema.eu/resources/ZZZ-VA-Rock+Pop+1983+Dortmund+Germany.jpg)
that introduced theses rabble rousers to Germany, they kicked the proverbial butt and were on fire, with DuBrow's screamy vocals soaring, they were easily the most dynamic of all bands that evening/night though they were by no means the headliner among all the heavy metal royalty there. That event is generally seen today as setting off the heavy metal craze in Germany and it was followed by the first time appearance of magazines such a Metal Hammer dedicated to heavy music only soon after.
Herr Sarzo in full Playgirl centerfold splendor at 3:29.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVxYWJOpEQ4
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I'm rubbing my eyes, a Dutchman defending deutsche carmakers caught cheating? The world is off-kilter ... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Did I mention that I hate the look of a Golf? It's the P Bass of cars. :mrgreen:
(http://www.belowodje.ch/image/021.jpg)
I always call P basses the VW Golfs of basses;)
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I wonder how far back that goes. I distinctly recall reading eyewitness accounts that Entwistle did that in the Who's early days playing clubs (would have been 64 or 65), though I've never seen photos of him doing it. And I tend to assume the earliest example of something I've heard of is not the very first time someone did it.
Sarzo is probably the only guy I've seen to reach his right hand up from under the body:
(http://highwiredaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/rudymini-300x232-480x270.png)
I've seen Sam Bolle do that while holding the bass over his head, and while Dick Dale plays the strings with drumsticks.
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(https://scontent-ams3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/12079476_1174071659276964_8430972232358967474_n.jpg?oh=824f234425b5db402956c12a23e8c3fd&oe=568D0B9C)
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Lotsa of European industry analysts saying everyone is doing it in the news during the last 24 hours. Mercedes is up next looks like.
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Sarzo is probably the only guy I've seen to reach his right hand up from under the body...
There is a slappity bassist called Quintin Berry, that plays like this 100% of the time. There are videos of him playing with Vic Wooten and co on Youtube. In an interview I saw, he claims he developed the technique because he moved onto bass from the violin, so is used to commanding the instrument from the treble side, not the bass side.
Note the shifted controls.
(http://www.sourceaudio.net/images/sized/images/artists/quintin_berry-425x638.jpg)
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I also changed from violin to bass, but if you move to upright, playing that way isn't an option.
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Whats makes you think American cars aren't affected?
I'd say any car with software under the hood is candidate
Bringing this thread back up -- Renault Shares Drop on Apparent Fraud Probe Into Emissions (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-01-14/renault-shares-drop-on-report-of-fraud-probe-into-emission-tests)
Won't have much impact in the US as they haven't been sold here for a number of years.