The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: vates on September 17, 2015, 05:08:03 AM
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Haven't been here for a long time (almost 2yrs).
Hope everyone's doing well. I missed some of you, dear friends :)
So let me get to the point.
My Les Paul DC bass has almost no use recently. How come?
There was something in its tone that bothered me a lot. I didn't understand what exactly.
But then I realized it by comparing my observations of another basses (Ps, Js, Spectors, G&Ls, EBMM etc.).
There's some thing I really hate in how ceramic pickups sound. All such pickups have some kind of hiss and harshness that langsam aber sicher drive me crazy.
So the last one in my stable with ceramics is my Gibson. Either I'll figure out how to fix it or else I'm going to sell it.
Which I really don't want to because this is my only Gibson bass... and most probably I won't buy another one soon (I'm pretty much loaded)... and because I really like how it plays and feels... and because it matches so nice with my Gibson electric and acoustic guitars... d'oh!
I know that there were AlNiCo replacements - Bassbuckers by Lindy Fralin. Though I can't find them anywhere.
Were they any good? How can one find them now?
Are there any other direct drop-in alternatives?
Would be much grateful for your inputs.
Cheers,
Serge
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I don't know what the magnets look like in your pickups, but you may be able to find some AlNiCo magnets with the proper dimensions and just swap them out. There's tons of them on feeBay for just a few bucks.
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The guts are completely encased in epoxy, so that's not really an option. I would find a replacement you like, then sell the TB+ pups. There are a lot of options, though I don't know who uses ceramic magnets and who doesn't. Rio Grande has one called the Pitbull that's basically 2 P Bass (original style) single coils in a humbucker chrome housing.
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I don't know which replacements would fit the bill. And if you don't like the tone of your pickups, then by all means replace them. But please don't buy into the "alnico = good/ceramic = bad" propaganda.
From the website of the late Bill Lawrence:
When I read that ceramic magnets sound harsh and alnico magnets sound sweet, I ask myself, " Who the hell preaches such nonsense?" There are harsh-sounding pickups with alnico magnets and sweet-sounding pickups with ceramic magnets and vice-versa! A magnet by itself has no sound, and as a part of a pickup, the magnet is simply the source to provide the magnetic field for the strings. The important factor is the design of a magnetic circuit which establishes what magnet to use.
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I don't know which replacements would fit the bill. And if you don't like the tone of your pickups, then by all means replace them. But please don't buy into the "alnico = good/ceramic = bad" propaganda.
From the website of the late Bill Lawrence:
When I read that ceramic magnets sound harsh and alnico magnets sound sweet, I ask myself, " Who the hell preaches such nonsense?" There are harsh-sounding pickups with alnico magnets and sweet-sounding pickups with ceramic magnets and vice-versa! A magnet by itself has no sound, and as a part of a pickup, the magnet is simply the source to provide the magnetic field for the strings. The important factor is the design of a magnetic circuit which establishes what magnet to use.
Has more to do with the wire used in the coil and the strength of the mag field. Hot ceramic mags and less winds of big AWG wire on a tall bobbin make for an inexpensive, powerful, but harsh sounding pickup IMO.
Good example is the tall Orville/Greco TBird pickups compared to short 60s Gibson TBird pups with A3 mags and 2 miles of thin wire in each.
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The guts are completely encased in epoxy, so that's not really an option. I would find a replacement you like, then sell the TB+ pups. There are a lot of options, though I don't know who uses ceramic magnets and who doesn't. Rio Grande has one called the Pitbull that's basically 2 P Bass (original style) single coils in a humbucker chrome housing.
Thank you for your advice! Rio Grande is not a cheap alternative but at least it is readily available compared to Fralins. I'll try to snatch the pitbull ;)
Are there any other options?
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Has more to do with the wire used in the coil and the strength of the mag field. Hot ceramic mags and less winds of big AWG wire on a tall bobbin make for an inexpensive, powerful, but harsh sounding pickup IMO.
Good example is the tall Orville/Greco TBird pickups compared to short 60s Gibson TBird pups with A3 mags and 2 miles of thin wire in each.
It's true that a cheap pickup can be made that way, and many cheap import pickups are. But there's nothing about a ceramic magnet that's harsh.
Thank you for your advice! Rio Grande is not a cheap alternative but at least it is readily available compared to Fralins. I'll try to snatch the pitbull ;)
Are there any other options?
Now that I think about it, any of the three TV Jones bass pickups are available in a guitar humbucker mounting as well as the Gretsch mount. Don't know about the magnets but I believe they've gotten rave reviews. drbassman is using a TV Jones Thunder'Blade in his new bass. http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=9753.0
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Thank you, Dave!
I think there must be more options out there, I'll keep looking.
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Haven't been here for a long time (almost 2yrs).
Hope everyone's doing well. I missed some of you, dear friends :)
So let me get to the point.
My Les Paul DC bass has almost no use recently. How come?
There was something in its tone that bothered me a lot. I didn't understand what exactly.
But then I realized it by comparing my observations of another basses (Ps, Js, Spectors, G&Ls, EBMM etc.).
There's some thing I really hate in how ceramic pickups sound. All such pickups have some kind of hiss and harshness that langsam aber sicher drive me crazy.
So the last one in my stable with ceramics is my Gibson. Either I'll figure out how to fix it or else I'm going to sell it.
Swap the 500k pots for 250k= instant treble rolloff right where cheap pickups get harsh. Your LP's problem isn't the magnet material; it's the cheap construction. G&L's MFD pickups are ceramic and sound very warm without being harsh.
I know that there were AlNiCo replacements - Bassbuckers by Lindy Fralin. Though I can't find them anywhere.
Were they any good? How can one find them now?
Are there any other direct drop-in alternatives?
I bought the last set of them he made. RS Guitars had Lindy make them for their line of Explorerbirds and sold off the leftover sets. I got the last one in 2010 and they went into my Epi Les Paul Standard, along with one of their sets of pots and caps. They sound like 60's T-Bird pickups, very snarly, but with a huge bottom. You can dial out the snarl with the tone knob. Compared to a real Les Paul Bass from the 90's, they sound much more aggressive, but not cheap. Mine aren't going anywhere.
Bass pickups that fit guitar-sized pickup routes are hard to come by. Here are a some threads that talk about the various models, including some guitar pickups that sound really good for bass.
http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=3590.msg54764#msg54764
http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=3775.msg57674#msg57674
http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=5075.msg80922#msg80922
http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=4419.msg69466#msg69466
http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=4234.0
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Wow! That's a thorough and very helpful advice. Thanks!
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I know of one UK supplier of Schaller Bassbuckers if you wish to go down that route?
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Thanks! I know that pickup. Not exactly the sound (and looks) I'm after.
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I think someone here has some Dimarzio guitar buckers in his Hamer, and is happy with it, stating it sounds very P bass alike, can't rememeber who
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I like the TB Plus sound, but one thing they are not: nuanced. They are a bit of a wallop/handful of sound, not as extreme as a mudbucker but a bit in that "more is more"-school of thought. I like that sound, but it's raunchy and hardly detailed, but then I'm a pick player and that always gives that click to sonically latch onto. If I played with fingers, I don't think that a TBird with TB Plus pups would be my weapon of choice.
Have you thought about using the new soapbar pups they used on the now deleted EB and the 2015 TB?
(https://images5.static-thomann.de/pics/bdb/350686/9540172_800.jpg)
They are called "EB Alnico V Bass", which you might find a comforting choice of magnet material, well, at least of name in line with your religious beliefs. :)
(http://img04.deviantart.net/d346/i/2012/199/9/4/voodoo_girl_by_allegator-d57nxwc.jpg)
But seriously: If you a looking for more texture, frequencies that are not all over each other etc, the difference to the - again: liked by me! - raunch of the TB Plus is night and day. I doubt if the EB Alnico V Bass pups are available as parts, but I'm sure some idiots have already torn them out of 2015 TBirds and are offering them on ebay. It will make your TBird sound a bit more like a P Bass (and for once I don't mean to say that as an insult :mrgreen: ).
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Not Alnico, but EMG makes the HB. There's even a review from someone saying they love them in their LP bass.
http://www.emgpickups.com/bass/hb-models/active/hb.html#reviews
If you have money to burn, Alembic can make their bass pickups in a Gibson Humbucker size according to their site.
http://www.alembic.com/prod/pickups.html
I know what you mean about loving the feel of the DC bass and wanting to upgrade the tone. I sold mine to a friend after buying a custom built bass based on the same dimensions. Hope you find some pickups that give you the tone your after and check back in when you have a chance to let us know how it worked out.
Cheers.
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I know what you mean about loving the feel of the DC bass and wanting to upgrade the tone. I sold mine to a friend after buying a custom built bass based on the same dimensions. Hope you find some pickups that give you the tone your after and check back in when you have a chance to let us know how it worked out.
Cheers.
Thank you! Hopefully I'll manage to work something out. Thank you all for your inputs!
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I think someone here has some Dimarzio guitar buckers in his Hamer, and is happy with it, stating it sounds very P bass alike, can't rememeber who
There was some discussion of them (Bill Lawrence EB50s) here...
http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=9699.0
My favorites are still the DP-221s, and I'm really liking the Model G that I recently auditioned in this bass (along with an old X2N guitar pickup in the bridge):
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/hamer/hsb1.jpg)
I have a bunch of EMG-HBs that I might let go of if you are looking for that sound. Those seem to have more of a flat frequency response, not unlike the soapbars in my Alembic Distillate. The Dimarzios are definitely more "coloring" compared to those EMGs.
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drbassman will have sound clips of the TV Jones up soon.
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I like the TB Plus sound, but one thing they are not: nuanced. They are a bit of a wallop/handful of sound, not as extreme as a mudbucker but a bit in that "more is more"-school of thought. I like that sound, but it's raunchy and hardly detailed, but then I'm a pick player and that always gives that click to sonically latch onto. If I played with fingers, I don't think that a TBird with TB Plus pups would be my weapon of choice.
Have you thought about using the new soapbar pups they used on the now deleted EB and the 2015 TB?
But seriously: If you a looking for more texture, frequencies that are not all over each other etc, the difference to the - again: liked by me! - raunch of the TB Plus is night and day. I doubt if the EB Alnico V Bass pups are available as parts, but I'm sure some idiots have already torn them out of 2015 TBirds and are offering them on ebay. It will make your TBird sound a bit more like a P Bass (and for once I don't mean to say that as an insult.
The EB pickups won't fit Les Paul routes; they're wider than the whole area covered by the pickup and mounting ring, but they would be an EXCELLENT tonal choice. If the the TB+ was Gibson embracing 80's high gain, the EB is a welcome nod to their past. I sincerely hope they find some way to keep making them or sell them as aftermarket replacements.
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Agreed. Guys at Gibson need to know this users' opinion. However, I still can't figure out how their communication with customers works (does it?).
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Here's the scoop on TV Jones pickups. They will fit into a LP route. The TV Jones pup rings are required. While the outside dimensions of the ring are the same as a LP ring and the holes line up, the TV pup is slightly narrower than a LP pup. So they will work and they are really great pups for the money. They also have several different styles depending on your tastes.
I've used the ThunderTron and the ThunderBlade. Both are great pups. Read my comments in the thread "Doc Bass Ready to Roll". I discuss the ThunderBlades in two recent bass builds.
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Agreed. Guys at Gibson need to know this users' opinion. However, I still can't figure out how their communication with customers works (does it?).
http://www.gibson.com/Gibson/Talk-2-Us.aspx to contact them, but why bother? What would it accomplish? You chose to buy the bass. The pickup isn't defective, you just decided you don't like it as well as you thought you would. Gibson wouldn't care, and they especially wouldn't care when it's a discontinued pickup in a discontinued limited run bass.
Ever hang around a Gibson-oriented guitar forum? Thousands of players decide to look for something they think will sound better, that's why there's such a big aftermarket for guitar pickups. Gibson doesn't care, they just hope you buy one of theirs if you do.
Gibson cares about selling instruments. If they don't sell to begin with, they care (e.g. the 2015 sales disaster and the changes for 2016). Once it sells, they only care about fixing defects under warranty,
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Duh, I forgot that you were looking for guitar size humbuckers! Of course the EB Alnicos then demand too much routing work.
I also now understand where your issues with the sound of these TB Plus come from: In comparison to the guitar size humbuckers the soapbar TB Plus sound rounder/more docile. The guitar size TB Plusses turn even a hollow body like an EB 650 into a snarling monster and they are the reason why I always said that the Les Paul Standards of the nineties and noughties were the most assertive rock basses Gibson made EVER. I just gigged with two of them (my active 8-string and the later passive 4-string) yesterday, they take no prisoners and my zebra wood TB (which has a middish honk of its own due to the zebra wood wings) sounded gentle compared to the two. I do like that sound in a rock setting, but I guess for some people it can easily be a bit much. When the Mon(k)ey/DC basses were reviewed in German Gitarre & Bass that was exactly their bone of contention: That the pups were too raunchy and too little hifi to reach the desired market of modern bassists. They granted that "Gibson was not following trends" with the pup choice, but they wondered whether the overt rock sound of these basses would not limit their large scale appeal. I guess they were right!
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Here's the scoop on TV Jones pickups. They will fit into a LP route. The TV Jones pup rings are required. While the outside dimensions of the ring are the same as a LP ring and the holes line up, the TV pup is slightly narrower than a LP pup. So they will work and they are really great pups for the money. They also have several different styles depending on your tastes.
I've used the ThunderTron and the ThunderBlade. Both are great pups. Read my comments in the thread "Doc Bass Ready to Roll". I discuss the ThunderBlades in two recent bass builds.
Thank you!
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From the TV Jones site, it looks like what they call the English Mount fits a humbucker cavity.
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Just as an FYI, Lindy Fralin still custom-builds a number of bass-centric pickups under nickel covers with no holes...just give him a call:
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t31.0-8/1781106_747712411917771_7345184447059439792_o.jpg)
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An edgy design, no less!
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Just as an FYI, Lindy Fralin still custom-builds a number of bass-centric pickups under nickel covers with no holes...just give him a call:
(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t31.0-8/1781106_747712411917771_7345184447059439792_o.jpg)
Wow. Thanks!
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No problem!
Yes, definitely an edgy design.
8)
Here's how it went out the door:
(http://www.lowecustomguitars.com/wp-content/gallery/random-images/DSC01469.JPG)