The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Other Bass Brands => Topic started by: Chris P. on June 30, 2015, 04:10:45 AM
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http://guildguitars.com/g/starfire-bass-ii/
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Cool 8) but what I'm really waiting for is an affordable 2 PUP version of the M-85 ;)
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Sooo perdy.
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I like the natural finish.
When Fender sold Guild to Cordoba last year, I wondered if they were going to continue the electrics long-term, since their core business is acoustic guitars. Good to see that they have introduced a new electric model.
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Wow. That qualifies as definite bass porn. The wood in the bass shown is lovely!!
Anyone know much about the "Guild® BS-1 BiSonic Bass" pickups? Shows as the same pickup used on their M-85 single pickup model...and the single pickup sStarfire... http://guildguitars.com/g/starfire-bass/
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That used to be my dream machine.
Natural two pup tone crammer.
Funny thing is my first bass (which I still have) is a C Neck Precision. Sort of ruined me for narrow necks except for Guilds.
I'm drooling and thinking. . .
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Wow. That qualifies as definite bass porn. The wood in the bass shown is lovely!!
Anyone know much about the "Guild® BS-1 BiSonic Bass" pickups? Shows as the same pickup used on their M-85 single pickup model...and the single pickup sStarfire... http://guildguitars.com/g/starfire-bass/
I was extremely skeptical about them since they haven't put out much concrete information. One person I talked to said they heard from the company that they are Fred Hammon's Dark Star design but built in Asia. One would think that they would make that information more available - maybe something contractual? Maybe they don't care that much?
For a while on their website on their page of Guild users they had a picture of "Phil Lesh" except it wasn't - it was a much less well-known musician playing a Starfire - they took it down within a week but come on...
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I do know Cordoba bought old Guilds as study material and new electric (guitar) reissues will follow.
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Back when it was introduced (still under FMIC ownership) they said it was a recreation of the Bisonics, not the Dark Stars.
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Back when it was introduced (still under FMIC ownership) they said it was a recreation of the Bisonics, not the Dark Stars.
Good catch Dave - I misspoke - here's what my friend said: "I found out that the pickups are made from Hammon's spec but they are made offshore." The Dark Stars were recreations of the modded Bi-Sonics, maybe he helped them recreate the Bi-Sonic itself? He definitely seems to have worked with Guild on them, I should have spoken more clearly. Dang, I was trying to be careful too!
So that seems like a possibility, doesn't it? Fred Hammon designed, built overseas. (Darn, I even interpolated "Asia" for "overseas" - should have just gone back to my friend's original statement.)
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Sure, it's a possibility. Or they could have given an original to someone like Artec. We really don't know if it's an accurate recreation of either. It could all just be marketing speak.
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There has been a lot of discussion about the relative differences and merits of the original Bisonics, Darkstars and the new Bisonics over on LTG.
The general consensus has been that they all sound different and the new ones were the least popular. To the point where there was no rush to buy them when they were offered at about $100 each recently.
But sound varies so much instrument to instrument.
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So the current Bisonics are a copy of the Dark Stars which were a copy of the original Bisonics?
There's a certain circularity to that.
...OM....OM... :rolleyes:
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So what's the price on the Starfire II?
What I've read on TB is that the new Guild Bisonics aren't up to snuff compared to Hammons, but nothing definitive from anyone who actually did a side by side comparison either using test or equipment or installing both in the same bass and recording. My guess is they're probably close enough, especially for the price.
On a happy note I sold my Hammon Darkstar on Talk Bass for $300 in about 4 hours last month. I seriously thought about buying that JS II that was available a few weeks ago to harvest its Hammons but have enough on my plate.
Very seriously doubt that Guild, FMIC or anyone else consulted Hammon on the current Bisonics...pickups aren't rocket science, especially to people who design and manufacture them. Novaks production does look a little cleaner then Hammon's
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So what's the price on the Starfire II?
$1640 list vs $1520 list for the single pickup Starfire
http://guildguitars.com/basses/newark-st-basses/
Since the single-pickup model has a street price of $1099, this ought to wind up at only $100 more.
What I've read on TB is that the new Guild Bisonics aren't up to snuff compared to Hammons, but nothing definitive from anyone who actually did a side by side comparison either using test or equipment or installing both in the same bass and recording. My guess is they're probably close enough, especially for the price.
On a happy note I sold my Hammon Darkstar on Talk Bass for $300 in about 4 hours last month. I seriously thought about buying that JS II that was available a few weeks ago to harvest its Hammons but have enough on my plate.
Very seriously doubt that Guild, FMIC or anyone else consulted Hammon on the current Bisonics...pickups aren't rocket science, especially to people who design and manufacture them. Novaks production does look a little cleaner then Hammon's
I also seriously doubt that Fred had anything to do with these or that they're modeled after Dark Stars. If they were based on Fred's modifications, it makes no sense that Guild would specifically call the pickup a Bisonic without any other description.
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I also seriously doubt that Fred had anything to do with these or that they're modeled after Dark Stars. If they were based on Fred's modifications, it makes no sense that Guild would specifically call the pickup a Bisonic without any other description.
I wish I had more concrete evidence - all I have to go on are a cryptic message at the Let's Talk Guild forum and the message from my friend - I will check back with him and make sure he actually spoke to someone at the company.
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OK, finally some definitive words on the matter - the current Bi-Sonics have no connection to Fred Hammon. Here's what I got from a Guild rep:
Guild's classic BiSonic bass pickup was introduced in the mid-1960s. Fred Hammon launched the Darkstar pickup in 2005, which was a more modern take on the BiSonic pickup, making them more aggressive but still preserving the classic sound. That is the only connection our BiSonic pickups have with Fred Hammon.
Gotta remember to take what people say with a grain of salt, especially on the internets! Sorry for the false alarm though I'm glad it pushed me to look into the matter myself.
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OK, finally some definitive words on the matter - the current Bi-Sonics have no connection to Fred Hammon. Here's what I got from a Guild rep:
Guild's classic BiSonic bass pickup was introduced in the mid-1960s. Fred Hammon launched the Darkstar pickup in 2005, which was a more modern take on the BiSonic pickup, making them more aggressive but still preserving the classic sound. That is the only connection our BiSonic pickups have with Fred Hammon.
Gotta remember to take what people say with a grain of salt, especially on the internets! Sorry for the false alarm though I'm glad it pushed me to look into the matter myself.
And yet when I relayed it to my Facebook friend, he says that the bass rep said that there was a connection...
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And yet when I relayed it to my Facebook friend, he says that the bass rep said that there was a connection...
The connection being Fred Hammon used a Bisonic as the starting point for the Dark Star. ;D
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Roughly equivalent to Hollywood's "based on a true story".
Meaning essentially that they kept the name and changed the rest.
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Has anyone done a build with one of these yet?
Readily available for $100 at Best Bass Gear.
http://www.bestbassgear.com/guild-bisonic.htm
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Has anyone done a build with one of these yet?
Readily available for $100 at Best Bass Gear.
http://www.bestbassgear.com/guild-bisonic.htm
Interesting that the template they list is a link to a Darkstar template. Must be the same dimensions.
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My oh my, I'm smitten. It is beautiful and the 2 pups would definitely be nice.
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It is interesting that they Guild mentions both Fred Hammond and Curtis Novak by name in their ad copy:
The Guild BS-1 BiSonic pickup was originally found in many of the solid and hollow body Guild basses in the 1960s and 70s. The BS-1 has developed a cult following resulting in several reissue versions and designs, including the famous Darkstar by Fred Hammon and BS-DS by Curtis Novak. Wound to 6.4K Ohms, similar in specification to a Hammon Darkstar, the Guild BS-1 provides a refined modern tone in a classic package.
(http://guildguitars.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/closer-look-sf_II_bass-1500x630.jpg)
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That wasn't there last time I looked.
As Harry noted above, there was a conflict between what the Guild rep told him and what the rep told a FB friend.
This settles it, and IMHO it's unfortunate. Not just because I don't care for the Darkstar, but because it's not going to sound like the original. What I really find odd is the cult following based on what Jack Casady and Phil Lesh stopped using decades ago.
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That wasn't there last time I looked.
As Harry noted above, there was a conflict between what the Guild rep told him and what the rep told a FB friend.
This settles it, and IMHO it's unfortunate. Not just because I don't care for the Darkstar, but because it's not going to sound like the original. What I really find odd is the cult following based on what Jack Casady and Phil Lesh stopped using decades ago.
I'm actually not convinced that we know anything - which is what bugs me!
The Darkstar - love it or hate it - was a loving recreation of the modified Hagstrom BiSonics that were used in Guilds in the late '60s. What did Guild really model the current reissue BiSonics on? Original BiSonics? Darkstars? Do they know the difference? If they did, I think they would be more open about the design, but what do I know. I guess I can imagine what Gibson would do with such a history. But if they don't but they are throwing the Darkstar name around? Or they are knowingly using it, hoping to cash in on the reputation of those pickups without replicating the nuances? But what if a player can't fathom the difference and make good music on it anyway? What I guess I'm trying to say is, I'm not convinced that they actually came up with a kick-ass recreation of the BiSonic (or the Darkstar), and that would be fine, if they weren't cashing in on the legacy...
Not sure why this issue gets me so worked up - maybe part of me thinks, "someone shouldn't be allowed to get a great sound out of a $100 pickup" but what should I care? If someone does, then that's great! If not and they only bought it based on the hype, then that's their own fault. But I don't think people should get sucked into the hype either, and maybe I just want to point out that it's a bunch of hype without any solid foundation.
Another part of the equation is that Phil Lesh is back to Alembic - he has been using a couple of custom built Alembic 6-strings for about the past year now. I really think that the Alembic system is the natural progression (early on) of what Phil Lesh was using - first modified BiSonics, which they felt gave a very even tone - then Ron Wickersham designed pickups. Another key is that the BiSonics were being put through filters (usually low-pass) - I personally think that broad frequency pickups don't necessarily sound good on their own - the whole point is that they will reproduce the sound of the instrument, which can then be filtered and EQ'd, a very different approach than using a pickup with a very characteristic frequency response like a split-coil P pickup. So in other words, the "Darkstar/BiSonic magic" of the Dead and early Alembic wasn't only about the pickup - it was also about what you then did with the signal.
I think this is all what I was trying to say before too! :mrgreen:
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This settles it, and IMHO it's unfortunate. Not just because I don't care for the Darkstar, but because it's not going to sound like the original. What I really find odd is the cult following based on what Jack Casady and Phil Lesh stopped using decades ago.
Of course neither Phil or Jack used stock Starfires either. Guild should do a 'San Fran' special issue with brass hardware and most of the treble side of the body filled with hardcore filter-based preamps built up from military NOS components, topped off with chunky Raytheon knobs. :o
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Of course neither Phil or Jack used stock Starfires either. Guild should do a 'San Fran' special issue with brass hardware and most of the treble side of the body filled with hardcore filter-based preamps built up from military NOS components, topped off with chunky Raytheon knobs. :o
Well said! Casady practically tore apart his basses and turned them into Frankensteins with metal plates, different pickups, switches, etc. He was anything but a purist, and I've seen pictures of his basses that look like something a Road Warrior movie.
I don't quite get the popular focus on "vintage" pickup sound. Pickups are about as simple as pounding clothes on a rock by the stream to wash them; they're magnets with wire wound around them. Many of the pickups from the 50's and 60's were made as best guesses, some of which worked and a few of which didn't. I've seen back-side pix of the Darkstars and it looks like they have some extra "stuff," but I wouldn't place a bet on whether I could hear much difference between them and a TV Jones Thundertron.
If someone would like to explain what the electronic particulars are for the "original" pickups with "extra stuff" that were the genesis of this type, I'll be glad to read and learn from it - but it probably won't make a difference as to whether I'd buy version A vs. B vs. C.
To me, what matters is not so much the derivation of the pickups, but whether they sound good or not to me. There are few things more individual than people's judgments (or lack of them) about pickups, and what I like, some others won't. For that matter, I know that I'm not very good at hearing distinctions between pickups.
I care about the overall ergonomics and balance of the instrument, and whether the combination of strings and pickups gives me a sound I like. Most of the time, if I don't like it the answer (for me) is changing the strings, not the pickups.
The Guild Starfire looks really nice to me, has a 30.75" neck, and overall looks like something I'd like. But it's awfully close in look to my medium-scale Gretsch 5123, the price is pretty high, and as a noted cheapskate, I doubt I'll be tempted to buy one.
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All good points, gentlemen. We really don't know for sure what Guild is doing with the design. They could be just trying to reel in people who have heard about Darkstars.
The Darkstar was definitely a hotrodded version of the Bisonic. And IIRC it was based on Rick Turner's hotrodding of the originals. So while Jack and Phil's basses had many more mods than just the pickups, there's no doubt the pickups were partly responsible for the sound.
Pickups are relatively simple, but there are all kinds of variables that can change the sound.
Some things really irritated me about the Darkstar cultism. One was people repeating ad nauseam that it's a wide range pickup, as if that somehow made it superior. Hey, an EMG soapbar is wide range too and it sure doesn't sound like a Darkstar. The only criterion should be whether it sounds good to you, in your bass. If you like the wide range aspect of it, fine, but by itself, that doesn't tell you if it sounds good.
The other irritant was that back in the Pit days, certain members kept linking to just about every damned cheapo project bass that came up on eBay as a potential "Darkstar project." Really? As if some plywood or mystery wood hunk of junk is going to be magically transformed by dropping in a pickup that costs more than the bass? It's not magic, folks.
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Yeah, that last one was a drag that drug on and on.
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That sound worked well for old Jefferson Airplane recordings...I sure don't want to sound like that now. Just loaded "Worst of" the Airplane on my MP3 player...will listen on the way home.
Listened on the way home...I don't get it. Other than "Embryonic Journey", the album sounded awful.
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That sound worked well for old Jefferson Airplane recordings...I sure don't want to sound like that now. Just loaded "Worst of" the Airplane on my MP3 player...will listen on the way home.
Listened on the way home...I don't get it. Other than "Embryonic Journey", the album sounded awful.
I never got it, nor understood why anyone thought Grace Slick was a good singer. Worst live performance I've ever seen by a known band was Airplane in 1970. We came for the opening act and unfortunately stayed.
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Jorma plays acoustic guitar beautifully...don't get the rest of it.
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Grace sucked. I walked out in 1969 after two songs. The whole band stunk too. Stoned out of their gords.
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I have to admit the one pup Guild M 85 RI sounds pretty good, whatever the new generation pup is. I took mine out and looked at it. Just like a DS in terms of looks.
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Grace sucked.
I'd heard that rumour too...
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Grace sucked.
Vocalists have been hired for less :)
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Saw them in 1968 and they were great. Saw them again in 1970 ( Holland Pop Festival ) and took it as a hint to hit the hey ..........
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I always thought the cut from the Woodstock movie was cool.
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Not nearly as cool as the Monterey footage in my book ...... 8)
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I beg to differ. Fantastic live, even when stoned. As was the case when we heard so many bands back then. At least they weren't heroin zombies like Zeppelin or poor Johnny Winter during his worst periods.
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I beg to differ. Fantastic live, even when stoned. As was the case when we heard so many bands back then. At least they weren't heroin zombies like Zeppelin or poor Johnny Winter during his worst periods.
What can I say? To each his own.
In any case, if a band's substance abuse affects their performance, then I'll judge them based on their performance. I don't know if that was the case when I saw them. I just thought their music was aimless and terrible that night
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Listen to Bless Its Pointed little Head or Live at the Filmore East (where I was present).
Perhaps you just weren't buzzed enough when you heard them !! 8)
But some of the later Starship shows did get a bit ragged....
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Bottom line: I'd love the play one of the new Starfire II basses.
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a band that either you or it has to be high to enjoy is rubbish. grace slick always came off as a california soccer mom playing rock star, to me at least.
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Whatever.
But I cannot imagine what bands you folks were listening to or playing with back then. Outside of YES and James Brown, there were few interesting bands that didn't sound ragged live.
Beyond the self-inflicted issues, there was the lack of monitors, the lack of sequencers and the lack of decent, affordable tuners. Can you remember the first time you had monitors on stage?
But there was a true energy in those ragged shows, especially when compared to the half live/half recorded shows we are treated to now.
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Outside of YES and James Brown, there were few interesting bands that didn't sound ragged live.
I'm not old enough to prove otherwise, but I do listen to music from the late 60's to the late 70's almost exclusively.
Listening to live recordings and watching live videos from that time is proof enough I'd say; just as easy now as then to see if drugs or alcohol ruins the performance or not. I liked Jefferson's bass sound when I started playing bass, but they do have some iffy live moments documented that at least to some point was worsened by substances, and slicks voice (though subjective)
As for monitoring, sure it has changed but you have had brilliant performances ever since ampifiers hit the stage (say, charlie christian era) and it all comes down to how the band communicates, huh?
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Whatever.
But I cannot imagine what bands you folks were listening to or playing with back then. Outside of YES and James Brown, there were few interesting bands that didn't sound ragged live.
Beyond the self-inflicted issues, there was the lack of monitors, the lack of sequencers and the lack of decent, affordable tuners. Can you remember the first time you had monitors on stage?
But there was a true energy in those ragged shows, especially when compared to the half live/half recorded shows we are treated to now.
Well, I was fortunate enough to see a lot of bands live in the 60-70's and many of them were very good live. Not the same studio quality sound and missing of the added studio elements, but fine musicians who took their music seriously.
Bands I saw that didn't suck like the Airplane. Emerson, Lake and Palmer; Steve Miller; Leslie West and Mountain; Johnny Winter; Elton John; Spencer Davis Group; Joni Mitchell; James Taylor. Current group, DMB. Unreal live IMHO. Dave might drink too much, but he's a consummate performer. Too old to remember any more! Performing live is no excuse for playing like a ham handed chimp, forgetting 2/3rds. of the lyrics and singing like a tone deaf frog.
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Amen, Bill. II'll take a real live performance from the 60's or 70's over many of the sounds of today...especially when the sound guy boosts the ultra-low end up to the point of pain and where it blocks much of the sound of the vocals and other instruments. I've been to concerts which were much Less audible and even louder than the early 70's...and the sound problems ruined the performance. I complained about a performance of the Robert Randolph band here for just those reasons.
Blood Sweat & Tears, Chicago, Earth Wind and Fire and (of course) The Moody Blues all should be added to the list of groups that sounded great live. And I also heard Elvin Bishop play back then, and he knocked everybody's socks off.
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Yes, add Moody Blues to the list! And BB King. (I got to sit on his amp for part of a show in 1969)
But good lord, we saw Johnny Winter in the early 70s when he played 20 minutes, took an hour break and then "played" for 15. Really sad. Thankfully he was much better when I saw him in his later years. And ELP, well, like the later Grace, there were some alcohol issues at times..... Etc.
But as you said, we are all remembering things.
If you care to view some killer live performances by the Airplane, rent "Fly Jefferson Airplane" and "A Night at the Family Dog 1970" which also has Santana and the Dead on it. They could be an awesome band. Sadly, at the end of the run, alcohol got the best of Grace.
Just as so many good musicians and bands were felled by the migration from pot to heroin. Thank god I missed that one.
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Sooo perdy.
Ditto!
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i remember a long thread from the PIT about whether sitting on your amp would damage your privates or not. the jury is still out on that one. i saw winter around the still alive and well period and he had no problem playing the whole show without a break. when i saw the old bands , for me i was just thrilled to see them and did not pay much attention to the 'raggedy' factor unless it was unavoidable { joe cocker 1972}.i saw all the usual rock suspects but was lucky to see some blues and jazz guys before they passed. they include muddy waters, willie dixon, albert king. freddy king, jimmy reed, rashann roland kirk, mike bloomfield, a young stevie ray vaughn in the cobras, etc.
willie dixon's bass player used a fireglo rick circa 1974? willie had his trusty doghouse bass up there but rarely played it.
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Truth is, they are all only human and many had their good days and bad days.
Thinking more, I saw Grand Funk, Procol Harum, they were great.
This has been a fun trip down memory lane!
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I'm late to the party (in more ways than one), but by the mid seventies all pro bands had monitors, good to excellent PAs (those lovely Martin bins that would just bludgeon you into submission) and their live gigs weren't any worse to what you hear today, just louder (max volume has been curtailed in Germany in the 90ies) and less taped vocals.
As for Grace - there were better singers out there, sure, but I always found her voice had a certain steelish quality which I liked. But what do I know, I even like Cher's voice. Grace was a piece of work on a bad day, but so were many male rock stars. She at least wasn't any worse than Lou Reed who's probably by now been kicked out of heaven for his mood swings. :mrgreen:
And now for the medical part:
" ... whether sitting on your amp would damage your privates or not ... the jury is still out on that one ..."
Lieber Nofi, this being the forum of scientific evidence, I can share with, console and at the same time reassure you: I have spent countless hours sitting on tube and transistor amps in too many rehearsal spaces to remember. I have two +20 year old children, they are physically and mentally healthy (the latter in a roundabout way at least). I was at the urologist two weeks ago or so: He marvelled at the high blood oxygen and the fertility of my testicles (I have two, unlike other notable Germans in history). Any better, and the mere touch of my scrotum would cause fingertip touch induced pregnancies of the other - what am I talking: any!!!! - gender in osmosis-like fashion!
I'm glad I could help clear that one up. :mrgreen:
PS: Actually, my favourite place to sit during a rehearsal is my 18" Ampeg cube cab (the 8x10" fridge is no good for that, I'm a little uncomfortable with heights). Hitting a low E is a nice, manhood-reassuring feeling on there. 8)
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I saw the Airplane in 1968 at the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam and they were in top form instrumentally and vocally. I was not under the influence of anything except the glorious bass sound Casady was producing. Actually they sounded great in that masterful concert hall and their engineers got it perfect. Living in Europe in those days there were plenty of opportunities to see bands like The Who, Hendrix, Cream etc. I get the whole Entwhistle thing, always a bit too trebly for me and Bruce muddy live. Casady's system blew them all away as far as bass sound, balance in that live setting. I had been playing bass already 3 years by then and on that night I realized the religious connotations of the bass and I converted 100%. (Btw that same night the Doors were on the bill in an aborted form after Morrison oD'd in stage dancing to Plastic Fantastic Lover!)
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"religious connotations of the bass"
(http://mtv.mtvnimages.com/uri/mgid:file:http:shared:mtv.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/cheering-1435342627.gif)
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How uncanny is that: I have a Brennan JB7 here in the office and it stores about 800 CDs uncompressed losslessly, that is about 10.000 individual songs. It's on random all day and what played just now: Jefferson Airplane's "Pretty as you feel"!!! I'm expecting ole Grace to make an appearance out of my office cupboard any time now ...
Naw, she ain't coming, instead Eric Bloom is now belting out "Going through the motions" in that great, newish Culture Factory remaster of Spectres ...
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Now that I listen more carefully to the Ox on recordings, I'm flat amazed at how trebley and metallic his sound often was. It's not a sound I enjoy from most musicians, but that guy was magic.
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He sounded plain horrible sometimes - all distortion, 9 volt battery pumped up sound, low action clatter on fretboard and, how shall I put this, not over-obsessed with the groove of the band, very much a lead bassist. And he himself said that he hated playing Magic Bus because holding down that hypnotic rhythm bored him to tears. But there was still enough that was great about him too.
OTOH, Jack Bruce's latter day fretless playing with no note unmodulated was an acquired taste too.
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I saw the Airplane in 1968 at the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam and they were in top form instrumentally and vocally. I was not under the influence of anything except the glorious bass sound Casady was producing. Actually they sounded great in that masterful concert hall and their engineers got it perfect. Living in Europe in those days there were plenty of opportunities to see bands like The Who, Hendrix, Cream etc. I get the whole Entwhistle thing, always a bit too trebly for me and Bruce muddy live. Casady's system blew them all away as far as bass sound, balance in that live setting. I had been playing bass already 3 years by then and on that night I realized the religious connotations of the bass and I converted 100%. (Btw that same night the Doors were on the bill in an aborted form after Morrison oD'd in stage dancing to Plastic Fantastic Lover!)
Wow! I have a Doors Laserdisc about that show. Both the Doors and Airplane talked about Jim's dance. Gracie also explained why he was so prone to that accident. I believe it was called "The Doors in Europe." It may be out on dvd now.
IMO, the guys in the Airplane were really kind and gracious to their opening bands.
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My first gigs were mid 70's (Slade, Alice, Who, SAHB, Little Feat) then it sort of exploded into too many to mention but there was only one gig that stands out head and shoulders in the disappointment stakes and that was a Tonka era UFO and a drunk Mogg - such a shame - Zep at Knebworth was shaky but still enjoyed it (excluding a broken nose from a beer can hailstorm) - Page's overproduction is not replicable on a stage...
otoh Rush, from 1st UK tour in 77 to last time I saw them in 07 were perfection, every time, and Allman Brothers Band and spin-offs (DB Gt Southern, Sea Level) were outstanding, and...
Turkeys...? well Sabb's with Gillan and Gregg/Cher were dodgy, but watchable, in a perverse sort of way... at least with the Sabb's gig I got to spend some time backstage with SRV and co which with their set was the high point of the day; that and the roadie's bar... :mrgreen:
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mike bloomfield
You lucky so-and-so ...... Unfortunately for me Bloomers never crossed the pond.
I did see great gigs in 60/70s Amsterdam NL. To name a few: Paul Butterfield, Sandy Denny ( Fairport & Fotheringay ), Family, Van Morrison ( & the Caladonia Soul Orchestra with David Hayes, what a great bass player ), Fleetwood Mac ( Green/Spencer/Kirwan line-up ), Poco, Flying Burrito Brothers and yes, contrary to popular belief even Janis and The Kozmic Blues Band were great ( and I got the bootleg to prove it ! ;) )
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"well Sabb's with Gillan and Gregg/Cher were dodgy, but watchable ..."
Disturbing the Highlander or what?!! :) I still rate Born Again as among Gillan's best work outside of DP. And his voice gave Sabbath more of a doomsday sound than Dio's (not knocking him, just heard the Mob Rules remaster with the companion Live at Hammersmith gig and that just knocks the "produced to death" Live Evil CD out of its proverbial heavy boots of lead, Sabbath cooks on that recording).
And your posting about Gregg Allmann and Cher induced me only recently into buying the CD (which was difficult to get, I ended up with some South American release) - it approaches easy listening most of the time, but it got bashed unjustly at the time I think. It's a white soul album essentially. But then, admittedly, I like Cher as an actress, singer and larger-than-life cosmetic product of her own making.
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Hmmm..there was a lazer disc of that 'Doors' show at the Concertgebouw? Might like to see that except i have no access to lazer disc player. It was just Manzarek, Krieger and Densmore. Manzarek did some of the vocals, but mostly instrumentals.
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I still rate Born Again as among Gillan's best work outside of DP...
Best work out of DP, end of story, the first "solo" LP - and thrice seeing the lineup (-Genocky) at the Marquee were the icing on the cake, and he-who-shall-not-be-named encored on Tokyo and Smoke for an Xmas gig, iirc... want to know what sad is...? I think I still have the daft "I spent Xmas with Gillan" hat and (somewhat deflated) balloon...
... just heard the Mob Rules remaster with the companion Live at Hammersmith gig and that just knocks the "produced to death" Live Evil...
Agreed... I was at the gigs... stunning... and another sad moment... I still have the tour badges...
And your posting about Gregg Allmann and Cher induced me only recently into buying the CD (which was difficult to get, I ended up with some South American release) - it approaches easy listening most of the time, but it got bashed unjustly at the time I think. It's a white soul album essentially. But then, admittedly, I like Cher as an actress, singer and larger-than-life cosmetic product of her own making.
we've discussed this before... Front row, Rainbow Theatre, skin-tight painted on black er... paint... and I'm sure part of her kept winking at me... :o
It was just all so slick - a 4 minute whipping Post, a duet of Love The One Your With, Midnight Rider... a bunch of other covers... all performed perfectly... if you check the musicians on it most of them toured with him so Cher played with Willy... and the guitarist was a member of Wet Willie... (did I get away with those...? :mrgreen:)
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Hmmm..there was a lazer disc of that 'Doors' show at the Concertgebouw? Might like to see that except i have no access to lazer disc player. It was just Manzarek, Krieger and Densmore. Manzarek did some of the vocals, but mostly instrumentals.
Correct.
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They have now rereleased and remastered the two Doors albums post Jim's death on CD too,
http://www.amazon.de/Other-Voices-Full-Circle-Doors/dp/B00XO2A3R6/ref=sr_1_33?ie=UTF8&qid=1439562179&sr=8-33&keywords=the+doors
never heard anything from those (they were rarely seen even in the 70ies), but ordered the rerelease under curiosity aspects. I guess if you have Nite City CDs in your collection, there is no need to blush about these. :mrgreen:
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why oh why. they are awful. :P but you probably already knew that.
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I have a penchant for trainwreck albums! I even like Kiss' The Elder! Or Their Satanic Majesties Request. There is magic in something real bad too. Listening to Van Halen III was an experience. 8)
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I thought all Doors albums were trainwrecks. :P
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I disliked both The Doors and Jimi Hendrix fervently in the 70ies and 80ies, crap hippie music I thought, I came round with both in the 90ies. These days, I enjoy Manzarek's educated and relatively "un-rock" keyboard playing on their records. There is something European to it I like. And some of Morrison's lyrics are actually quite good poetry. Not every rock lyric has to be Foghat's Slowride! 8)
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I have a penchant for trainwreck albums! I even like Kiss' The Elder! Or Their Satanic Majesties Request. There is magic in something real bad too. Listening to Van Halen III was an experience. 8)
Or anything by Tommy James or Yoko!
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There is magic in something real bad too.
Well, you're in for a treat. These two albums (and I think the other doors albums sound good) only sounds uninspired at best. The elder is a masterpiece compared to other voices/full circle. They are the three point bridges of albums :)
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They have now rereleased and remastered the two Doors albums post Jim's death on CD too,
never heard anything from those (they were rarely seen even in the 70ies)
Not so in the Netherlands. The ( dust covered, nobody dared touch them ;) ) albums migrated from the regular bins to the sales & cut-out bins and remained there until the shops in question went belly up. Having dredged up that memory I also am compelled to note The Mosquito was a Top 20 hit here and was played ( much to my discomfort :-[ ) on the radio to no end........ I quite got that Robbie wanted to eat his burrito but why the f*ck couldn't he eat it at home where it would've been no bother to anyone ! :o
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Unfortunately I remember The Mosquito being played here too.
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Oddly enough some of my favorite albums were sort of "uneven" or "quirky".
Sometimes the "perfect" albums were boring.