The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Outpost Cafe => Topic started by: gearHed289 on June 11, 2015, 08:34:45 AM
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So patman's post about leaving the music biz gave me the idea to share my recent experiences. After 8 years of 50+ shows per year, I have now not played a gig in 6 months. For various reasons, I decided to step away. And funny thing - I had been uninspired to write for years, but once I made the decision to get out of cover band-land, I started spewing ideas like crazy! I'm LISTENING to and DISCOVERING more music, I'm GOING to more shows, and I'm WRITING again. It's been good. Kind of a relief from the day job/family/gigs grind. I didn't need that extra $15K a year anyway... :o :sad: :P
So a guitar player friend and fellow prog fanatic that I've known for 30 years and I are finally doing the prog project we've been talking about for a few years now. We're sharing writing duties. I'm doing bass, synths, and vocals. He's got a Roland setup on his guitar. I found a really cool electric violinist (7 string through a guitar rig), and recruited the drummer from the last original band I was in (Ivory Wire). I'm still trying to find a name everyone likes. :-\ I've realized I have a lot of great resources available too - people who are willing and eager to help out. Really GOOD people - producer, live engineer, photographer, web designer, booking agents... Even though, at the end of the day, this is "for fun", I still intend to make it as top quality as I can. There are some good venues in Chicago for this kind of thing, and I have some possible "ins" as local support for national acts. We have a ton of stuff written. Things are moving VERY slowly due to availability (drummer and violinist), but I plan to record 4 songs ASAP, then get some live shows under our belt before recording another half dozen or so. Very exciting and inspiring stuff!
I've got 1 "sub" gig this summer with a band that does all Zep, Aerosmith, VH, and AC/DC. I may return to that world some day, but for now, I'm enjoying some time off!
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Congrats - this is exactly why I stay as far away as possible from cover bands.
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Unfortunately, in Cincinnati, if you want to play (and get paid)...it's pretty much got to be a cover band.
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I made my choice. There's day jobs for a living.
Original bands can get paid anywhere as long as you draw and avoid shitty venues.
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I'm glad this works so well for the OP! Nice to get rejuvenated.
Myself, I love playing "covers", which i simply regard as proven music that the audience and i both like. It's great to play stuff that people recognize and want to hear, but it's not for everyone! To each their own.,
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i hate cover bands. seems like a waste to spend your time and talent playing other peoples stuff. its even worse if you cop a rock star attitude being in a cover band.
i don't get it. :o
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Interesting news... prog band names have to be suitably pretentious, or subtly straight...
:popcorn:
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I take a lot of pride in playing in a cover band...
most of what we do is good music done well.
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(http://img.pandawhale.com/82733-why-not-both-meme-5LvD.jpeg)
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Yes, I play in both. The cover band/s allows us to get tight as a unit, make good money to buy quality gear, and get comfortable performing in front of large crowds. All of that translates to killer live performances when we play our original gigs, because we're gigging all the time in one format or another.
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Yes, I play in both. The cover band/s allows us to get tight as a unit, make good money to buy quality gear, and get comfortable performing in front of large crowds. All of that translates to killer live performances when we play our original gigs, because we're gigging all the time in one format or another.
that sounds cool, is it exactly the same band?
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(http://img.pandawhale.com/82733-why-not-both-meme-5LvD.jpeg)
+1
It's fine to choose one or the other, or both. Do what suits you.
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I take a lot of pride in playing in a cover band...
most of what we do is good music done well.
That's it. Back in the big band era, every band had their version of favorites of the day. No one argued with that - I see playing popular music as exactly the same thing: our interpretation of the hit.
I am also pleased when people write original music, and I appreciate that. Good original music is a fine thing. Sucky original music would, IMO, be better off replaced with "covers."
I don't look down my nose at either, nor do I agree with the attitude of those who do.
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(http://img.pandawhale.com/82733-why-not-both-meme-5LvD.jpeg)
I agree. No need to make it into a false dichotomy.
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Agreed, you can do both...
But if the originals are not excellent music, I personally would rather play covers that are excellent music. Playing amateurishly written originals is to me, worse than playing in a mediocre cover band.
We do the typical dance set stuff...but we try to play good quality tunes...
We do some oddball stuff, and people seem to love it because it's good music...
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I don't think anyone was being elitist about cover bands. The theme was more how it can be artistically despiriting. Some people are into it, and that's fine. But any cover band that 'makes money' is not playing music that I wanna play to begin with. You've got 2 choices: current top 40, or classic rock (apparently now includes grunge FYI). I was in, what could be construed for a time, to be a Clash cover band. Almost ruined The Clash for me. It sucked so much out of me, and like gearhed, did it in an insidious way that I didn't even notice until it was over. And yes, there was some rockstar attitude.
I'd take shitty originals, over poorly executed covers of songs I'm not hot about in the first place any day (as an audience member I mean). I know that I would be in the minority on this, and that's fine. There are good cover bands, but just like there are shitty original bands (as one-sidedly mentioned a few times above) there are also shitty cover bands; shitty bands are shitty whether or not they play originals. Also, most original bands I've been in (some exceptions) have done a few covers here and there. I find that a better balance. To me, a "cover band" is one that plays no originals whatsoever (or maybe, sneaks 1 in toards the end), sometimes specialising in the repertoire of a single artist or group ("tribute band" being a subset of "cover band") and sometimes more genre-based.
I did enjoy a (mostly) Johnny Cash cover band the other month down the local pub with my wife. Bassplayer was perfect (besides the lack of an Embassy/Newport).
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I really enjoy playing in a cover band, it's been very good to me over the past 11 years in The Nasty Habits. We don't even play out that much lately but that can change at any time, when we travel outside of Seattle we get payed well, last two shows in May we pulled in 2K a night between the 5 of us, plus rooms at a nice hotel. The crowd loves us, dances all night and buys lots of booze at the bar, we do it just enough to keep it fun. Not much of what I would call "classic rock in our setlist, it's not all that dancable and the lady folk don't like it, mostly it's '80s stuff that they (the lady folks) instantly recognize and hopefully want to dance to. I can honestly say it's been a great time, the most gratifying part of it being all the really wonderful people I've had the chance to meet. I get email from around the world, our YT stuff gets a lot hits - it's a lot fun, maybe because we haven't done it so much that we beat it into the ground.
At 57, I'm very happy I've done exactly what I wanted with this - Like all of us I have many other things calling for my time, family being the most important amongst them.
There are plenty of good venues around town and lots of them want originals (you won't get paid a lot!) so there's room for both - Personally, I love a good original band - as long as they're good, just because a song is an original doesn't make make it good ;)
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you guys assume most original music will be shitty. well. it is. local and big rock star stuff as well. that's just the way it is. must i drag theodore sturgeon from his grave one more time. ted says "ninety five percent of everything is crap." and so it goes...
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You definitely have to understand when you are in a dance oriented cover band that the music you play for money, and the music you listen to are two mutually exclusive things.
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You definitely have to understand when you are in a dance oriented cover band that the music you play for money, and the music you listen to are two mutually exclusive things.
Absolutely true,
Once I got over trying to foist my taste in music off on to other, innocent people the cover band went great. What I listen to on my own time isn't what needs to be played at a bar/casino where 25-50 y.o. women want to dance and guys want to try and get laid. "Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner" or worse anything by Led Zep, isn't everyone's cup of tea - "What I like about you" gets me paid ;D
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I still play "What I Like About You"...
Must be universal
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The thing I like about my current band is that I think our originals hold up quite well among the classic rock / power pop covers we do. And people seem to enjoy them. So we can vary the mix depending on what people seem to be responding to, and we have a great time either way. I think I'd get bored doing nothing but covers. This way the covers are like a burst of levity and fun in between sweating the original stuff.
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Lots of good comments! First and foremost - this is just my perspective, and it's not commentary on what anyone else chooses to do. As far as doing both, for me it's a matter of available time. Full time job, family, and a working cover band pretty much prevented me from being able to do an original thing. Funny, someone mentioned the "rock star attitude". I definitely see that around town here, and it's one of those things that's both amusing and annoying. ;D :rolleyes: My current drummer said it best - "How do you have an ego when you play in a cover band?" Right!
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... must i drag theodore sturgeon from his grave one more time. ted says "ninety five percent of everything is crap." and so it goes...
Wow... now there's a name I haven't heard mentioned in quite a while... there's a few of his titles on my shelves (or rather, in the packing, at the mo...)
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June 1st made it 3 years for me. I was in the same band for 10 years. Played every Friday and Saturday night (and they still are). It was fun and the money was great but it was too much work for this old man. They have a 14 foot trailer, full PA, light show etc. The great thing about cover bands (or at least the one I was in) is you get to play top notch clubs, high dollar private and corporate events, and make great $$. I never had any desire to play in an original music band. When I started at age 17 in 1978 I was making $100 a gig. Nice money for a kid in high school.
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It interests me to hear how some people dedicate their time to music like that.
I don't really have time to play out more than once a month or so. I have work and travel, online teaching, cars to keep running, and other interests. To me a music schedule like that is similar to someone who restores old cars and is in the garage every night for hours. Just not my style, although i respect their dedication.
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Yeah for me it's all about having fun. If I get a few bucks once in a blue moon that's nice, but it's not a second (or first) job for me.
I don't think I could play every weekend night and keep my family together! Not to mention I already get about 5 hours sleep a night, I just don't have the energy.
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that sounds cool, is it exactly the same band?
Yes, the same 4 core members.
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you guys assume most original music will be shitty. well. it is. local and big rock star stuff as well. that's just the way it is. must i drag theodore sturgeon from his grave one more time. ted says "ninety five percent of everything is crap." and so it goes...
And it always has been, IMHO. Maybe not 95% but still mostly crap. We remember the great songs and artists from earlier eras, and we forget all the crap. Go back to the year of your choice and see which songs managed to make Billboard's Top 100 at some point or other, and you wonder how some of them ever got airplay. Not to mention the ones that never charted or never got airplay at all. You'll find some hidden gems, sure, but you have to dig deep.
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True. When I was a radio DJ in the 60's and 70's, I remember the mountain of 45s that came in and never got airplay. Why? They simply weren't very good.
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Yeah, my old band that I quit 6 or 7 years ago went all original and now they could bore a dead person. But they are happy telling everyone how great their new stuff is, even though no one will pay them to gig it live. Supply and demand!
I love doing covers and playing occasionally. The best of both worlds for me. ;D
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I've mostly been in blues/soul bands for 30 years or so. Are those cover bands? We certainly did nothing note for note and often strived for more obscure tunes even in that genre. .
For the last 6 years I've been in a ... ?? Classic Rock Band?? I'm not sure what that even means anymore. I never used to think the 80's was classic anything. Our repertoire consists mostly of stuff from the 60's to 70's. It's not my favorite music to listen to but it is stuff I grew up with on AM radio. This band doesn't play anything note for note either (I sure don't). We argue sometimes about wanting to add more "modern" songs and I always fight it. I don't like that stuff at all and I don't remotely know it or connect to it in any way. No way would I study them either.
We try to be pretty eclectic and we do no originals but we throw in some fairly obscure tunes and do some different versions/arrangements of some of the more popular ones. Used to play out almost every Fri/Sat but now it's down to 3 Saturdays/month by choice (of some members). Don't make a fortune but enough to support the habit and then some. It's a good balance for me. I think we sound pretty good and most importantly, I enjoy doing it.
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3 Saturdays a month sounds like a good plan to me. Enough work so that the band is tight, but not too much...
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3 Saturdays a month sounds like a good plan to me. Enough work so that the band is tight, but not too much...
Even though I don't have that much time, that kind of frequency would indeed contribute to having a nice, tight sound.
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Sturgeon's law (90% not 95 BTW) is often overused and misused beyond the point of it's original intent. Music being 'good' is not something that can be objectively measured and therefore which 90% is the crap portion varies by individual (there is not even consensus among 'qualified' persons). The more accurate way of putting it, within this context (which has nothing to do with the original intent) is something like: everybody thinks 90% of anything sucks; it's which 90% we disagree about. Not quite as succinct and nihilistically cool (which is why it gets so much use), but miles more clear and logically airtight. The original intent was to defend the newish genre of Sci Fi literature from critics who were dismissing the entire genre as without merit based on the 'worst' examples of it. His point is that any category of work (not just art forms, but consumer goods etc) has approximately the same proportion of poor quality examples and therefore those critics were logically incorrect in drawing conclusions from a few examples, selectively chosen. It does not work to use this 'law' in isolation to one particular form to show how most of it is crap (i.e. originals vs covers - 90% of those suck too, as previously mentioned).
Going further, there may be some examples that seem "universal" (such as the Kinks tune mentioned above - hell, I dig it, not sure I'd want to cover it, maybe in a reinterpreted way, but not straight up) but even this is not the case. There is no definitive 'good music' category, nor even selected undisputed members (unless your sample, as regards those you are asking, is biased in some way*). There are people out there who still don't acknowledge Rock in general as potentially good music. ... and then there are others who can't grasp how anyone could dispute the divinity of Led Zepplin.
I'm not even sure one can even classify works definitively the other way - worst; sucks. No matter how bad something is, some asshole out there digs it and often what experts or more discerning persons might consider pap, is in reality the most popular and well-liked; e.g. pop tarts and boy bands.
* all the above said, a skewed sample can be relevant in that it could define your target market. Drunk single middleclass 30-somethings down the pub for example. I'd give you 1:1000 odds that your grunge cover band would be a hit.
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In the thread with David Clayton-Thomas, he refers to his latest CD as "standards". I like that term better.
IMO the rock hits of the 60's and 70's are now "standards." Let's face it, everyone who hears them knows every note, every lyric. House of the Rising Sun, Hey Jude, Sympathy for The Devil are all essentially standards now.
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It's all about having fun with a big room full of people....
The dancers (God love 'em) still want to dance when you play "Run Around Sue" ... been playing it 40 years (or more), and it will still get a room full of people moving.
Same with "Gimme Some Lovin/I'm a Man"...it's kind of like a communal celebration when you get a big room full of people moving. Gotta admit it is still fun to drink a few beers and go out and honk out some Rock 'n Roll...if it is gone, I will miss it.
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he refers to his latest CD as "standards". I like that term better.
That sounds about right. We've played just a few weddings and a few parties for old coots (like ourselves). Our fearless leader is always warning that we need some old-timers music for these occasions. I argue back that if they were too much older than us, they'd be dead.
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It's all about having fun with a big room full of people....
The dancers (God love 'em) still want to dance when you play "Run Around Sue" ... been playing it 40 years (or more), and it will still get a room full of people moving.
Same with "Gimme Some Lovin/I'm a Man"...it's kind of like a communal celebration when you get a big room full of people moving. Gotta admit it is still fun to drink a few beers and go out and honk out some Rock 'n Roll...if it is gone, I will miss it.
I may play different songs but yes, it's very gratifying to have people simply enjoy the music - even better if you're making music with good friends.
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I've been feeling the opposite of the original post...after being in a hard rock original band, it's more money pit and shows in my town are hard to find and have been thinking of selling my soul to the cover band or more of an East coast project..where money might actually come my way.. :)
Not giving up the first one, but maybe supplementing the first with the latter..
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Yesterday at the rehearsal of Definition Of Madmen we made a decision to reintroduce the use of covers to our repertoire. We've been working on original compositions for about two years now. Made an EP and full length album that got us some good reviews. We made two video clips that got a good bunch of views on YouTube and Vimeo. But reality is that we've hardly been getting any gigs since we've stopped doing covers. And the band is suffering from that. We get frustrated and disappointed. We can't seem to be able to make the next step to a larger audience / decent gigs with 100% originals.
So we will add a bunch of covers to the setlist that go well with our own material. It is going to be a challenge to find the right covers ( not too cliché or worn out, yet still enough familiarity).
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It takes a while to find the stuff that sounds good covered by your band too! It took me years to figure out it's not always the same as "stuff we all like".
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back when I was in an original band we had a cover policy, which worked really well.
we always did a cover third song in to reel back in those who weren't digging new-to-them material.
it only stayed in the set for the amount of time it took to get the next one worked up so it helped keep things fresh without having to drop any original songs
some of our regulars enjoyed the "whats it gonna be?" aspect.
we took it in turns to choose the next one, and the chooser got to be boss of the arrangement, so sometimes it would be a direct homage, and some times it would be as far from the original as we could twist it. I have fond memories of a RATM style "Its all over now Baby Blue "
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Yesterday at the rehearsal of Definition Of Madmen we made a decision to reintroduce the use of covers to our repertoire. We've been working on original compositions for about two years now. Made an EP and full length album that got us some good reviews. We made two video clips that got a good bunch of views on YouTube and Vimeo. But reality is that we've hardly been getting any gigs since we've stopped doing covers. And the band is suffering from that. We get frustrated and disappointed. We can't seem to be able to make the next step to a larger audience / decent gigs with 100% originals.
So we will add a bunch of covers to the setlist that go well with our own material. It is going to be a challenge to find the right covers ( not too cliché or worn out, yet still enough familiarity).
It might be your 20/20, Rob, ever thought of that driving people away? :mrgreen:
Just joking, I think a split between covers and own material is the sensible thing to do.
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my deal with playing covers was that i felt like i was cheating somehow. playing someone else's stuff when i should be writing my own songs. it never felt legit to me. still doesn't. oh well.
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Play the home stuff for your own enjoyment, maybe post a youtube... earn by night with the covers and maybe get the band to help out with your own... best of both... ;)
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So we will add a bunch of covers to the setlist that go well with our own material. It is going to be a challenge to find the right covers ( not too cliché or worn out, yet still enough familiarity).
Makes perfect sense to me. There are tons of really good, fun numbers that people recognize that jacks them up. Alternating between them and originals is a perfect way to make a set that will hold an audience's attention.
In my radio DJ days, we called pulling records in an attractive, listenable sequence programming. It works.