The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: Denis on March 14, 2015, 10:11:56 AM
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So there's a shop on eBay which sells TRCs for Thunderbirds. Measured the distance between the two screw holes (those nearest the nut) and ordered one.
The guy wants the year of my Tbird and the serial number. I told him it was a '66-'69 Nonreverse but didn't mention a serial number (which I'm not sure has one until all the paint is stripped off).
He asked again for the serial number.
What possible difference does it make what the serial number is and why would he want it?
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He is either making a data base of birds or doing forgeries is my guess. I never give out my serial numbers.
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Both of those crossed my mind. None of his business what the serial number is and it won't help him with the TRC in any case.
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He could also be making sure that you have a legit bird vs trying to create a forgery yourself. Which is funny, but possible.
Just tell him a simplified version of the truth; yours has been refinned and until you strip it you don't know what the S/N is.
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Not sure why he'd feel it necessary to know if mine is a legit bird unless he has some sort of agreement with Gibson to make vintage parts.
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Because he cares. People are all sorts.
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I would ask him why he wanted it. He doesn't have a right to know but he doesn't have to sell it to you either. Find out why and then make your decision.
Better yet, somebody here with an original needs to buy a 3-D printer!
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I would ask him why he wanted it. He doesn't have a right to know but he doesn't have to sell it to you either. Find out why and then make your decision.
Better yet, somebody here with an original needs to buy a 3-D printer!
Actually he does have to sell it to me since he listed it on eBay and I clicked the Buy It Now button. Nowhere on the listing did it say he required the serial number of the Tbird.
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Actually he does have to sell it to me since he listed it on eBay and I clicked the Buy It Now button. Nowhere on the listing did it say he required the serial number of the Tbird.
Ah. Didn't realize it was a BIN and you had already bought it. If I were you, I'd just tell him you don't give out your serial numbers. If he balks, then you know how to proceed.
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Better yet, somebody here with an original needs to buy a 3-D printer!
Or have access to one at a library:
http://library.health.ufl.edu/2014/11/13/3d-printing-at-the-library/
Actually, TR covers are easily cut from sheet styrene, it's just the logo that presents some difficulty. Here's one using a die cut transfer.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/BaCH%20TH1/headstock.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/cata1d0/media/BaCH%20TH1/headstock.jpg.html)
As far as the serial number, it's none of his business.
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The listing was titled: GIBSON THUNDERBIRD TRUSS TIE ROD COVER (BLK/GOLD)
I bought one truss rod cover from the guy (paid with PayPal). My note to the seller was : "Hi, I just clicked Buy It Now and paid for one of your truss roc covers. Per your description of the two sizes, I will need the first: Size A = distance of two lower holes center to center is 13/16 inches (20mm)."
Then I bought a second (paid with PayPal) because the measurements on the two pairs of bottom screw holes were different. My Tbird has had two different truss rod covers in it's life and I didn't know which one was correct. My note to the seller for the second one read: "Okay, so the measurements I have are inconclusive so I BIN'ed another one of your TRCs. Please send me one of each, Size A and Size B.
Thanks!
His reply: What brand guitar do you have and serial number please.
thank you
My answer: '66-'69 Gibson Nonreverse Thunderbird
His reply: Please find the serial number on back of tuning headstock and send it to us.
thank you
My answer: It's undergoing restoration and until the paint is stripped I won't know the number.
His reply: It's easier for you to measure and select size A or B. Ask the shop to measure the distance of the two lower holes. We will not send two covers to test fit.
My answer: I wasn't asking for two covers so I could test fit. I bought two covers and asked for one of each size. The bass has had two TRCs on it in it's life and I don't know which is correct. Thus, I ordered two.
His reply: Are you planning on returning or will you keep both ?
My answer: I'd planned on keeping both since it might be some time before I know which is the correct one.
His reply: From all my 30 plus years of experience in this business I will tell you that Gibson T Bird truss covers will not match the curves of other brand replicas. I have had many ( more than a lot ) of people order telling they have a Gibson but it is in the repair shop. Then later once the item arrives and doesn't fit the buyer will contact me with an email and photos showing that the shape extends pass the headstock of their replica Aria, Bach, Greko or Dillion and want to send the item back but then I can't resale the item to anyone as a new because its been handled. That is why I am letting you know Gibson truss covers do not fit onto other brand guitars. Even it may look like the headstock is same shape it is not. Having said all this.... you still want to buy two items and keep them both?
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I'd just reply and say, "Thanks for the information about replicas, but this is for my Gibson, not a replica. I've paid for two, so please post them, thanks."
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Makes a little sense, I can sort of understand the guys logic. But vintage NRs and Revs use the same cover. So just buy the one for a vintage TBird, he must know that dimension.
He should put exactly what he's selling in the listing. Instead he makes you pay first and then asks in a roundabout way what you want to buy.
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His listing DID say there were two sizes and honestly his listing was pretty clear. I couldn't get hold of the guy at the shop for a couple of days and was unable to find an exact measurement elsewhere so I put in another BIN for the second one.
Nowhere did he mention he wanted serial numbers and I sure wasn't expecting to be put in the position of having to assure him through a half dozen emails that I have a real Thunderbird.
My main irritation is that his post described what it was, and I made the decision to buy based on that and the description. That should be enough. Besides, I have almost 300 ebay purchases and a 100% positive rating.
Maybe I'll just send him a list of the basses I have and ask him if he thinks now that I have some idea of what I'm doing.
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Wonder if it's the same guy I bought my TRC with the red logo from. The sellers name is apcustom_shop. No serial number questions but all I did was ask him how to order with the red on it. FWIW I bough the smaller (20mm??) option A TRC. I had no issues with the guy and he shipped super fast.
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Yeah, same guy!
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It sounds like everyone's tying themselves in knots. I can sympathise - I have unnecessarily complicated many things in my life, I get fixated upon something superfluous which is actually not super relevant to solving the problem and I'm no use to anyone until I finally see that I'm being an idiot :)
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Today I received this message: "I'm not allowed to release these covers unless you provide a serial number."
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Might I suggest that you provide him with a "serial number" that is slightly different from yours but age correct; swopping the digits round, by accident, obviously, and then report him for being a jerk and misrepresenting a product, then maybe, if they are sent by regular mail, and they "fail to arrive" you can sting the jerk further by giving him negative feedback... some people just get my back up... :vader:
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If I could locate a number on mine, I would consider giving him my number (with a changed digit or two), but I can't find one, and it might not show up until RS Guitars receives the Tbird and strips off all the paint.
Had I known there would be a bunch of post-purchase requirements I certainly wouldn't have clicked Buy-It-Now.
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I'm sure that one of the good folks here could offer you a jumbled number from an age correct T'bird via a pm if you aske nicely... ;)
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Why don't you just tell him that he's required to complete the transaction? He didn't state this as a requirement, so he's obligated to ship it, even if he has some sort of agreement with Gibson (which I doubt). If he still refuses, open a case with eBay.
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He never mentioned a serial number requirement to me and never asked for any proof of what bass my cover was going on. Not sure why this one is turning into such a hassle. I would think eBay and Paypal will side with you for sure on this.
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Jeez, weird all the way around. I wonder if the guy got burned with someone returning covers but really it's a complete overreaction if that's the case.
If it helps I've got an 67 EB3 and Melody maker, I can PM you the serials and you're welcome to give him one of those.
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Zero, zero, and four random numbers would be period correct.
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Bumpy start to the day in this saga but it got better. I think three different people were answering my emails, and worse, not all of them were answering the most recent emails.
So one of my earlier emails was this: "I'd planned on keeping both since it might be some time before I know which is the correct one."
Lilly (co-owner) responded with: "Exactly. Which means one is coming back soon or late. Please understand that we don't want you to go through this process of returning wrong items. No buyer likes it. Bottom line you need to measure. How about for now we refund your money of $50 and then later when you have guitar in your hands and if you feel like it, a new order can be placed and we will be here to help. Let me know."
Then this one: "I'm not allowed to release these covers unless you provide a serial number. "
To both of these I answered: "The original listing did NOT mention anything about requiring a serial number. If it had I would have contacted you first to see if you would consider supplying a truss rod cover.
A friend of mine ordered one of these from you with the Gibson logo in red and he was NOT asked anything about serial numbers. He ordered it, paid for it and you shipped it. I don't understand why you persist in asking me for a serial number even when I explained that my '66-69 Gibson Nonreverse Thunderbird is undergoing restoration and the serial number won't be visible until the paint is stripped.
Given that I read your listing fully, understood the terms and ordered TWO truss rod covers, one Size A and one Size B, paid for them promptly through PayPal, I really expected that you would honor the terms of the listing.
Adding additional requirements AFTER the items have been paid for is unprofessional and probably violates eBay's terms regarding good faith sales.
I expect that these two covers (one Size A and one Size B), which I bought and paid for, be promptly shipped to me, in good condition and in a timely manner. Otherwise, I will open a case with eBay in order to get this resolved.
Thank you."
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Then, Andy, the other co-owner, and I had this better exchange later on today.
Me: "I'd planned on keeping both since it might be some time before I know which is the correct one."
Andy: "From all my 30 plus years of experience in this business I will tell you that Gibson T Bird truss covers will not match the curves of other brand replicas. I have had many ( more than a lot ) of people order telling they have a Gibson but it is in the repair shop. Then later once the item arrives and doesn't fit the buyer will contact me with an email and photos showing that the shape extends pass the headstock of their replica Aria, Bach, Greko or Dillion and want to send the item back but then I can't resale the item to anyone as a new because its been handled. That is why I am letting you know Gibson truss covers do not fit onto other brand guitars. Even it may look like the headstock is same shape it is not. Having said all this.... you still want to buy two items and keep them both?"
Me: "It seems to me that you simply don't believe me when I've said several times that I have a '66-'69 Gibson NonReverse Thunderbird. It's not a BaCH (I have three of those), it's not a Dillion or a Greco or an Aria.
The pots in mine date to 1965 and it still has the original jack. I've had the original pickup rewound. It has the original pickguard, tuners, bridge, pickup cover and bridge cover.
A friend of mine previously had ordered one of these truss rod covers with the logo in red and he was NEVER asked for his serial number. I'm not sure why it's such a big deal with me. No mention of a serial number is in the original eBay listing, so adding this as a requirement AFTER I've purchased and paid is unprofessional. If you'd mentioned requiring a serial number before ordering I would have contacted you first to see if you would still make me one of these truss rod covers.
Not once have I ever asked for you to send me the two covers so I could test fit and return one. eBay is not set up for that sort of thing. I bought two different sizes KNOWING that one probably wouldn't fit and was willing to take that chance.
You have a 99.9% rating and I have a 100% rating. I think we should try and keep it this way. "
Andy: "Hi Denis,
Sorry for the misunderstanding. We want the items to fit onto guitars properly without issues and is the reason we ask for size and or serial number. If a customer is unclear then we can't be sure it the item will fit.
We will ship out the two items today priority mail. There will be a standard shipping email after this one. "
Me: "Thank you,
I understand your concern about properly fitting items so perhaps it might be a good idea to make mention in future listings that guitars differ in design and that parts for one brand may not necessarily fit other brands. It would protect you up front and probably save some headaches.
I will let you know when they arrive."
Andy: "Yes, I might have to spell it out now. I didn't think I needed to when the title clearly says Gibson.
It used to be that buyers asked before placing an order. Lately they purchase and then announce its a different brand guitar.
thank you again for understanding."
Light at the end of the tunnel.
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... is an in-bound freight train...? :mrgreen:
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A lot of hassle but it sounds like you have it all sorted out now.
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I would have figured that since the item listing read "GIBSON THUNDERBIRD TRUSS TIE ROD COVER (BLK/GOLD)" they would have sent them in black/gold. But no, the logos are in silver.
The item description reads "NEW -- Truss rod cover plate for Gibson Thunderbird Bass electric guitar.
Material is 1/16" thickness ABS plastic solid black with brilliant gold foil logo."
Gold, not silver.
Jeez.
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They responded to my note saying that I should return them, measure out which one I really need and they would send back the correct one in gold.
Since the bass is now in my hands, this makes it easier...
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What a hassle. Sounds like they have too many people handling things to get it right. Hope you finally get it sorted out.
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A real hassle. With luck, the correct one will fit AND be the right color. I can't believe when this is all done I'll have a long-ass story to tell about a stupid truss rod cover.
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I actually enjoy these 'modern times' where you can get hard to find parts (at a price though) just by clicking the ebay button.
When there was no internet, I spent years trying to comlete my few basses - with little or no luck.
But there is of course problems; I now have a story to tell about my marshall superbass amp ventilation mesh!
Been through a couple of ebay sellers claiming they got the goods, but when it shows up its either too small or too plastic!
It amazes me how upset i can get about such small things, but the damn amp would be complete with that mesh, so the search
continues........
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True about the internet- looking for the same thing for a 1981 JCM800 2203.
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Whilst clearing the shed I located the missing rear panel from my Hiwatt... the mesh is in good nick; a bit corroded, but I'll have to make up a new piece of ply as it's deteriorated too much... at least I have the true template to work from...
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... at least I have the true template to work from...
The ebay listing i bought just recently, even had the correct measurements - in both mm's and inches.
So at least they knew what size people were looking for :sad:
Maybe I'll write another mail to marshall..
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So, I wrote them back:
"The truss rod covers arrived but both are black and silver not black and gold as the item was described in the item subject AND in the description itself: "GIBSON THUNDERBIRD TRUSS TIE ROD COVER (BLK/GOLD) " and
"NEW -- Truss rod cover plate for Gibson Thunderbird Bass electric guitar.
Material is 1/16" thickness ABS plastic solid black with brilliant gold foil logo."
They responded with: "We are extremely sorry for this mistake. It was just a very busy week and overwhelming amount of orders. In order to fix this, please open a return request and say that item is not as described. We will send you a prepaid return label so you can ship it back. Meanwhile right away Monday we will ship the correct ones.
Also maybe without opening any packages you can test fit which one will fit on your guitar. Do you wanna try that?"
Then they wrote back: "Denis,
Disregard my last message. To open a return request is the wrong way to do it.
Just send the package and buy FIRST CLASS postage with TRACKING at local USPS office and I will reimburse the cost to your paypal account tomorrow."
I answered: "Ok, Lily, I'll do this.
I will need the black/gold Size A 11/16".
They responded: "Thank you so much for being so nice and cooperative. Let me get this right. You realized now that in fact you need the size A truss cover which means you will need to exchange one of the covers for gold logo and to return & get refund on the second one. Correct ? Please confirm so we can proceed to the next step."
Then I responded with: "Yes, that is correct. And please keep in mind that my original intention was to return neither of them and take the chance that one of them was the correct size. I'm only making a return because they were not the correct color.
As long as both have to be returned because of the color my original intention of keeping both is no longer current.
So, Size A 11/16" with gold lettering."
They responded: "That's fine. In this case you will need to open a return request (Reason : item no longer needed) for ONE of the two orders you have placed. When return is started, I will be able to buy and send you a return shipping label so you don't have to waste your time and go to post office. Please do so as soon as you can."
Now it appears that though BOTH TRCs arrived from them in ONE package from them they now are to be treated differently because I want only one of them back. As I said, I willingly bought two because I wasn't sure which one was correct and was willing to bite the cost on one of them. I wouldn't have returned either if they had been the correct damn color.
This is amazing and a lot of work for two frigging parts totaling $50. Sure wasn't worth it.
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Good grief. >:(
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Seems like an awful lot of work for something that should be so simple. Sure glad my TRC order went without a hitch. Hopefully your order will get sorted out soon.
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It's literally easier to buy a car.
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I am under the impression that purchase of an automatic weapon would have been swifter and provoked less questions.
This is real life satire.
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My PC's TRC is cracked on one corner... break it any worse than is and that... is... that... so to speak...
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I am under the impression that purchase of an automatic weapon would have been swifter and provoked less questions.
This is real life satire.
Semi-auto, yes. Full auto, nope. 8)
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Semi-auto, yes. Full auto, nope. 8)
I'm with Vice-President Biden, buy a shotgun!
(DISCLAIMER: presented for humor value, not for politics.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwDFWX33lSI
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biden is operating under the myth that you don't have aim a shotgun, even at short distances. :P
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here is something mrs biden could use.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d84r8gMGxFQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOoUVeyaY_8
one of his friends was killed. the "russian " lives.
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Shotgun Joe is an idiot. I love FPSRussia. I think he was killed no to long ago under suspicious circumstances.
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Sent the two back and received the right one finally. What a hassle!
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At least you got it!
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Glad to hear that it has been resolved. Way more of a headache than it should have been.