The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Bass Amps & Effects => Topic started by: drbassman on September 26, 2014, 11:06:46 AM
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Well, this might be my last "in search of that tone" post I'll do for awhile. Having rediscovered the Scout last week, I found a like new M-Pulse 600 and made a low ball offer (these things were over $1300 new) and got it! It's the big brother of the Scout, and I have come to realize that these amps are real gems and some of the best I've heard from Mesa. If you've never tried one of these, you should. Great hybrid performers and it's a shame they are discontinued now. But I have 2 of them so I'm happy! 8)
Ironically, the first amp I tried when I decided to move up to gigging years ago was an M-Pulse 600 combo. I wanted that amp so bad, but at the time thought it was too expensive and settled for the Scout. The headroom and depth of the bass on an M-Pulse amp is incredible. I should have gone there a year ago, but just didn't really consider it. Now I have the best of both amps!
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Played a great gig last night with the Scout and wow did it sound great. I was left trying to figure out why I left the Scout and tried other amps. I realize now it was the move from my mutt rig with the 15" Scout cab and the Ampeg PF115. I wanted matching cabs and got two Mesa Powerhouse cabs. That was my first mistake. They sounded nothing like my old rig and I spent months trying to fix the sound/tone. Going back to the radiating cabs was a good first step but the Pridigy did not work well with them. In between the Musicman amp and rig did ok but was still not what I wanted to hear.
The simple fix was to return to the original pairing. It's now clear to me the Mesa engineers knew what they were doing when they designed the Scout/M-Pulse series and the radiating cabs. What a great combination of amp and cabs.
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Got the MP 600 today and it's in great shape. Spent its entire life in a massive road case, so it's got minimal cosmetic dings. I plugged my 4005 clone into it and I can't believe how good it sounds! As I said before, this is one amp they should not have discontinued. With the big EQ setup and built in compression, this amp has everything you'd ever need and the sound/tone/power to boot! I know I've thought I found what I was looking for in the past, but this amp is a real gem. It will go to practice to meet the Mesa cabs next week.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/drbassman/AMPS/DSCN0745_zps88656e1b.jpg) (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/drbassman/media/AMPS/DSCN0745_zps88656e1b.jpg.html)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/drbassman/AMPS/DSCN0746_zps562fb5df.jpg) (http://s2.photobucket.com/user/drbassman/media/AMPS/DSCN0746_zps562fb5df.jpg.html)
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Played the m-Pulse at practice last night and loved the sounds I could get out of it. All of the knobs can be a bit intimidating but I'm learning to use the EQ and compression so things should get even better with time. This is a great amp and I'm really pleased with it.
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There are so many good rigs that have just gone south due to "updates"... :rolleyes:
Nice that this is working out...
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I remember reading reviews when these came out saying that the eq system might be a bit much for some players to get used to. Are you getting more comfortable with it?
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There are so many good rigs that have just gone south due to "updates"... :rolleyes:
Nice that this is working out...
Ain't that the truth. Terms like "update" , "new and improved", "enhanced performance" etc. usually mean, we just F'd up a good thing and raised the price :mrgreen:.
Rick
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Rick... perhaps there's a subliminal link to Gibson's R&D dept...? :mrgreen:
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I remember reading reviews when these came out saying that the eq system might be a bit much for some players to get used to. Are you getting more comfortable with it?
The average player doesn't know what a graphic EQ does, much less parametric EQ. But Bill is edjumacated.
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I just noticed this thread - congrats on the new amp, drbassman... IMO, the M-pulse 600 is one of the best bass amps ever made - I've had one for a few years now, and have no intention of parting with it... I don't usually use the semi-para EQ, just the regular 3 band, and use different gain settings for different sounds... Here's mine:
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/georgestrings/IMAG0126.jpg) (http://s567.photobucket.com/user/georgestrings/media/IMAG0126.jpg.html)
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/georgestrings/MesaM-pulse600-4.jpg) (http://s567.photobucket.com/user/georgestrings/media/MesaM-pulse600-4.jpg.html)
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/georgestrings/M-pulse600rackback-1.jpg) (http://s567.photobucket.com/user/georgestrings/media/M-pulse600rackback-1.jpg.html)
- georgestrings
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Wow, that's a nice looking rig. Thanks for the tips on the EQ, I'll be playing with mine for a couple weeks I'm sure before I get it all figured out. The real beauty is all of the variation you can get out of this thing, it's amazing. Also, the depth of the tone and voice that it has is exactly what I've been looking for over the last year or more. Do you use the compression at all?
I've also been looking for the pedal that goes with it. What's the model number on yours?
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Wow, that's a nice looking rig. Thanks for the tips on the EQ, I'll be playing with mine for a couple weeks I'm sure before I get it all figured out. The real beauty is all of the variation you can get out of this thing, it's amazing. Also, the depth of the tone and voice that it has is exactly what I've been looking for over the last year or more. Do you use the compression at all?
I've also been looking for the pedal that goes with it. What's the model number on yours?
Thanks - I typically don't use compression at all, although that amp's is one of the best on board comps I've ever used... I have used the comp when sharing my rig with an opening act - to protect my speakers against a potentially out of control right hand... The other amp I use alot is the Streamliner 900 - those are two of the "tubiest" hybrids I've ever used...
My footswitch pedal has B-LINK-1 on the front, and a 5 pin midi jack for connecting to the amp - hope this helps,
- georgestrings
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Thanks! Looks like the pedal is no longer made so I'll have to keep an eye out for a used one.
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Thanks - I typically don't use compression at all, although that amp's is one of the best on board comps I've ever used... I have used the comp when sharing my rig with an opening act - to protect my speakers against a potentially out of control right hand... The other amp I use alot is the Streamliner 900 - those are two of the "tubiest" hybrids I've ever used...
My footswitch pedal has B-LINK-1 on the front, and a 5 pin midi jack for connecting to the amp - hope this helps,
- georgestrings
Set up the MP 600 with some extra bass on the two lowest EQ settings and a little compression. It sounded great at practice the other night. It really makes me think of a big B-15 kind of tone. Again, it's the deep rich bottom end I've been seeking. It just sounds great to my ears.
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I'm glad you finally found a combination that works for you.
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I'm glad you finally found a combination that works for you.
Yeah, it was probably harder than it needed to be, but I had the wrong speakers for awhile and a wrong amp or two. So, it took me some time to sort it out. If I had stayed with the Scout and my old speakers, I would have been just fine! My mistake was changing speakers and amps at the same time and neither one really was what I wanted to hear. Live and learn!
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Played a gig with the Mesa MP 600 and Scout cabs. It was wonderful! I loved everything I heard from the rig. A drummer from another local band was there and came up to me afterward to tell how great the rig sounded. I was happy to hear it from a unbiased listener.
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That's cool - I've long considered my M-p 600 to be a keeper...
- georgestrings
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That's cool - I've long considered my M-p 600 to be a keeper...
- georgestrings
Besides the abundance of EQ and other adjustments, the built in compression is fantastic. A great amp that they should still be making IMHO.
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Well, I've had my M-Pulse 600 since September, 6 months, and I'm still in love with it. I know it's a shock, but I won't be flipping it. In fact, I'm thinking of acquiring another one as a back up since they don't make them any more. It just a great sounding amp!
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It never ceases to amaze me how Mesa can make such great sounding bass amps with transistor output sections, and then slap a bad sounding guitar tube power section in their tube bass amps.
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It never ceases to amaze me how Mesa can make such great sounding bass amps with transistor output sections, and then slap a bad sounding guitar tube power section in their tube bass amps.
You are so right. After months of struggling with the Prodigy, it took me less than a week to dial in a fantastic sound from the M-Pulse. My little Scout has a similar ease of operation and tone quality, but I feel the built-in compression makes the M-Pulse a total winner and best all around amp for my needs and taste. I just couldn't get the Prodigy to perform properly.
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It never ceases to amaze me how Mesa can make such great sounding bass amps with transistor output sections, and then slap a bad sounding guitar tube power section in their tube bass amps.
You know circuits and I don't, but when I gigged with my Bass 400+ I got nothing but compliments from other bassists.
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You can sorta get around the voicing if you boost the lows on the graphic EQ enough, which is active and post-preamp tone stack, about 6-8db, but the inherent "flat" response of the power amp, no tone controls at all, signal injected post preamp is a steep low end rolloff starting at 80 Hz. It's a function of the stage coupling caps they use and a relatively high primary impedance output transformer. Most folks never miss true lows, but it is what separates their sound from everyone else. It's also a HUGE tube life saver and a sneaky way to make sure that tube imbalances that would be blowing fuses in other tube bass amps are much harder to cause. The lower the frequencies the output section has to pass, the greater their current output, and high current is what stresses all amps tube or s/s. It has a nice tone, but it's literally the Showman tone stack with some frequency shifting in the pull knobs being fed into a narrow bandwidth power amp.
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Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like it was intentionally designed to operate this way.
At least I know what a Showman tone stack is.
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It's wholly intentional, of the bean-counter intent; Mesa set it up this way for the same reason it ships ALL its tube amps with the tubes biased VERY cold, to minimize warranty claims both on the tubes and the amps. You could pull half the tubes from a 400+ and if the amp were set up for full power and easily get the same amount of power (about 180 watts) that one with a full tube complement factory stock puts out. They're good amps, but people should be aware of their characteristics, which Mesa doesn't like to trumpet. If you read Bass Gear magazine, all you need to do is look at the frequency response plot published in the latest issue of the Prodigy and Strategy amps to see that they also have this inherent low end rolloff. Fender didn't do it in the designs that ALL of Mesa's amps come from, but Fender also had a much better supply of power tubes of higher quality.
It's not a "tube amp thing" either. I have seen few self proclaimed experts chiming in on TB that low end rolloff is part of using an output transformer ...except low frequencies are the easiest thing for them to pass until you get below 10Hz, and no speaker is going to be hitting that, nor any instrument putting it out anyway. (Highs above about 2-5kHz require complex interleaving of the OT windings so that the transformer's own inductance doesn't muffle and roll them off, but that's another topic).
My current go-to amp is my Mesa 400+ and while it isn't quite the monster that some of my others are, I feel that I've finally got it to sound and perform the way I like, so I'm not dogging Mesa. I love that little bugger and it's a nice living room compromise between my B-15 and SVT and bigger tube amps. I just have to keep that 40Hz slider on the graphic EQ pretty much near full boost just to make the amp be honest about what it puts out. I do love the odd midrange character the amp has, and it's not hard to hear Cliff Burton's tone (what was audible anyway) in the 400+, which was the second generation of the amps he played in Metallica, early D-180's and Bass 400's. That low end rolloff may have been what inspired him to put that mudbucker in the neck position of his Rick 4001.
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Crap, the last thing I want in a bass amp is low end roll off! Geez!!!! :o
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Starting at around 100 Hz, but actually "cornered" at 80 Hz, Mesa tube bass (and guitar) amps have a 12dB per octave rolloff. That's steeper than some crossovers.
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Starting at around 100 Hz, but actually "cornered" at 80 Hz, Mesa tube bass (and guitar) amps have a 12dB per octave rolloff. That's steeper than some crossovers.
Makes no sense to me. :P
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My guess is money and tradition. It really does make the amps WAY more stable. Lows are harder to have with tube amps that may or may not have decent output tubes. Since nobody has complained over the years (mainly because most bass cabs can't do much that low anyway and even fewer bass players could tell if they did) and even Bass Gear raved about the amps' sound, I figure Mesa sees no reason to change it. The filter is set up in the stage coupling. It's not in the preamp, so any direct out recordings made off the amp will have the lows that are there present. It's only the power amp itself where they are missing, which is why their tube/ss amps sound so different from their all tube amps. Since Mesa considers that part of their tube amp sonic signature, I doubt it will ever change. It's a shame, but Randall clearly has had the Kool Aid that says fundamental frequencies aren't important to electric bassists or even if they are, will cause more problems onstage than their tone is worth, which is also BS; most bass feedback is in the lower midrange (100-400Hz) and bleed will happen from PA subwoofers just as easily as it will stage backline. Lots of guitar-centric amp designers treat bass amps that way and then wonder why everyone still prefers the old SVT for tube bass sound.
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Well, I definitely prefer the 400+ to the SVT. IMHO it's just fine with the EQ engaged. But even if I were gigging now, I wouldn't be able to haul it around with my health problems.
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Well, for whatever reason, the Scout radiating cabs can handle all of the bass freqs I can throw at them and do so without much effort. They also out-perform the other Mesa cabs I had before in terms of low end. I found what I was looking for, I was just looking in the wrong place for a awhile.
I'm with you Dave. We don't gig out much and I don't miss it. Playing at our guitar player's club once in awhile is fine with me.
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Got my second M-Pulse amp, so I'm good for awhile! Went for a 360 watt model, 600 is way more than I can use in the club, so it will become the main amp.
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I know people have widely varying preferences, but for this guy the newer lightweight amps are a godsend for portability. I simply don't want to lug more than 100 pounds of amp and speaker cab around anymore, and it's too hard on my body. I'm finally smart enough not to push my back as far as I can get away with.
I'm married to my Genz Shuttle and 12" speaker combo at 36 pounds (don't tell my wife). It's small enough that I can carry it over to a friend's house for practice, and powerful enough that I can gig with it.
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I know people have widely varying preferences, but for this guy the newer lightweight amps are a godsend for portability. I simply don't want to lug more than 100 pounds of amp and speaker cab around anymore, and it's too hard on my body. I'm finally smart enough not to push my back as far as I can get away with.
I'm married to my Genz Shuttle and 12" speaker combo at 36 pounds (don't tell my wife). It's small enough that I can carry it over to a friend's house for practice, and powerful enough that I can gig with it.
Light is definitely good, at our age! ;D The M-Pulse isn't light, but it's easy to carry nonetheless. Surprisingly, the 15" Scout radiating cabs are light and easy to muscle around.
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I hear you about weight. If I were ever to start gigging again I'd have to do something about my 200-pound-plus rig.
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I hear you about weight. If I were ever to start gigging again I'd have to do something about my 200-pound-plus rig.
Yeah, we ain't as young as we once were!
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But we still HEAR and try and put out quality sound.
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I agree! When I turn the compression on, the amp just seems to come to life. I love it.
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Replaced the missing nut on the board and fired her up. Just beautiful sounds come out of her. A keeper for sure.
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So now the only loose nut is behind the wheel, eh?? Eh?? ;)
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Oh yeah, I've been loose for most of my life! :P