The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Bass Zone => Topic started by: Denis on September 21, 2014, 07:41:51 AM
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The other day a friend of mine sent me a link to a new ESP bass. It's sort of got a Buzzard look to it, with a little RD he said.
I don't care for it but mentioned that I recently saw a band in which the bass player WAS using an RD. I thought it sounded good and said so.
My friend said, "They looked cool, but were pretty crappy."
I replied, "You Fender guys."
"Yeah, I'm a Fender guy all the way. I like Gibsons, but can't justify the cost. RDs are pretty common. Known as sort of the Edsel of basses. Or more like Gibson's Edsel."
I wrote back, "I could point to the Fender Katana bass... Seen one of those? Suddenly the weirdest Gibsons aren't so odd."
"Touché. Fenders had it's share of misfits too."
Me: "There's a Gibson 20/20 on eBay now. One of the "headless" basses."
Him: "Great if you're Devo. I'd rather play a Steiny. I miss the hell out of my old one."
Me: "Steinberger designed the 20/20.
Him: "I know. I guess everybody gets "one".
Me: "Check out Fender's new classic player Rascal bass!"
Him: "Little too Danelectro-ish for my taste. Not a fan of those pickups."
This whole exchange amused me.
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Amusing but there's some truth to it. Fender has had its share of misfits but there's no doubt Fender has been a lot more successful with bass sales.
The Rascal Bass pickups are made by Seymour Duncan; they were designed for a Strat, believe it or not. At any rate, you can tell by the promo video I posted in the Rascal thread that they don't sound the same in a solidbody bass as they would in a vintage Dano. You can't tell some people though, they don't want to listen. I understand, since I'm the same way about some things. :)
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You are absolutely right.
It just seems to me that I've run into a lot more Fender players who say things like this or say things like "I ONLY play American made P-basses" than I run across Gibson players who say similar things.
I did listen to that promo thread and those lipsticks definitely do not sound like they do in a Dano. I thought they sounded great!
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Is the resemblance to Dano pickups anything more than cosmetic?
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Is the resemblance to Dano pickups anything more than cosmetic?
They have Alnico 6 magnets like the originals. I don't know about the windings but they seem hotter, not that that would take much. In a Strat, they are chimey kind of like the originals in a Dano guitar, but of course even an original will sound much different in a Strat than a Dano..
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You are absolutely right.
It just seems to me that I've run into a lot more Fender players who say things like this or say things like "I ONLY play American made P-basses" than I run across Gibson players who say similar things.
Us Gibson players tend to be a pretty tolerant lot. Hard to be smug about an old EB-0 (or whatever) anyway. Plenty of gear snobs out there, that's fer sure, though. I think alot of it has to do with justifying money spent. That and the shame of having an expensive J-Bass that sounds almost as good as an SX. Me? I think nothing of gigging with a $100 Craigslist ho.
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Us Gibson players tend to be a pretty tolerant lot. Hard to be smug about an old EB-0 (or whatever) anyway. Plenty of gear snobs out there, that's fer sure, though. I think alot of it has to do with justifying money spent. That and the shame of having an expensive J-Bass that sounds almost as good as an SX. Me? I think nothing of gigging with a $100 Craigslist ho.
Roger Glover seems to be willing to play about anything!
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It just seems to me that I've run into a lot more Fender players who say things like this or say things like "I ONLY play American made P-basses" than I run across Gibson players who say similar things.
The snobbery among Fender players is impossible to defend. There are too many who automatically reject any instrument that isn't their choice among the staggering but often meaningless number of variations that Fender has built during the years. There are many of them who claim that anything but an American made bass (and they are usually very unclear about whether that includes one with Mexican-made pieces) is so much dog poo.
And it's simply not true. The Japanese made basses are good, the older MIJ P-basses have an excellent reputation, and for that matter, even the Squier VM series have made a big impression on many.
But there are people who have cars, firearms, instruments, computers, and any other machine and device you can name, who sneer at the people who own the models that the snob has decided are "lesser". Screw them and the the horses they rode in on.
Me? I like Univox, old Kay cheapie basses, Squier basses, and lots of other makes. I've found very few basses of any make that I couldn't get a sound I like out of. And my 1963 P doesn't sound any better than a number of newer basses I've owned.
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But there are people who have cars, firearms, instruments, computers, and any other machine and device you can name, who sneer at the people who own the models that the snob has decided are "lesser". Screw them and the the horses they rode in on
Known in other circles as Yankee fans...
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Denis, this place is full of gibson snobs who even refuse to spell fender correctly. :rolleyes:
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blender?(http://cdn.superbwallpapers.com/wallpapers/cartoons/bender-futurama-8299-200x125.jpg) (http://www.superbwallpapers.com/cartoons/bender-futurama-8299/)
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Us Gibson players tend to be a pretty tolerant lot. Hard to be smug about an old EB-0 (or whatever) anyway. Plenty of gear snobs out there, that's fer sure, though. I think alot of it has to do with justifying money spent. That and the shame of having an expensive J-Bass that sounds almost as good as an SX. Me? I think nothing of gigging with a $100 Craigslist ho.
I wish the SX basses would be sold in stores here instead of having to be ordered. In Ireland, I could walk in a store, buy one, and be playing within minutes. I just hate ordering stuff and in my local area literally the only thing available in music stores is Fender/Squier. As for SX, one of the best cheap basses out there, IMO. Take one anywhere and if it's damaged or stolen, no problem. Once you get something valuable stolen (even at a respectable venue,) stuff like this begins to make sense.
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Denis, this place is full of gibson snobs who even refuse to spell fender correctly. :rolleyes:
I have four fenders..........
On my Subaru, where they belong ;D
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I have four fenders..........
On my Subaru, where they belong ;D
Hey now! I gotcha Fender right cheer.....
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/P-bass.jpg)
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I have four fenders..........
On my Subaru, where they belong ;D
LOL. I fell for that one.
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I pretty much play whatever speaks to me...but it's usually been "Fenderish"
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I'm pretty ambidexterous in that regard, but lately I've been heard speaking Gretsch.
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I'm pretty ambidexterous in that regard, but lately I've been heard speaking Gretsch.
In my opinion, you have good taste. My preferences, though, would be Gibson, Gretsch, Fender--in that order.
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I'm not a big F kinda girl - but honestly, whatever anyone else plays and finds happiness with is just fine by me. I get my undies in bunch when I'm told that the big F is "the only real bass", "Leo got it right" etc., etc. by the big F Posse on that other forum tho......... ;D
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I love the bass that speaks to me today. Sometimes that's one of my Gibsons, or Fenders, or Grecos, or Ibanez, or parts basses, or... YMMV, but I find that people who insist on telling me what I should prefer playing (or playing through) are usually fools and/or blowhards. Play what you love and forget about checking to see if that's OK with anyone else.
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Denis, this place is full of gibson snobs who even refuse to spell fender correctly. :rolleyes:
I don't really think it's snobbery. It's more a way of poking fun or striking back at anyone who tells you that you should only play Fender.
I love the bass that speaks to me today. Sometimes that's one of my Gibsons, or Fenders, or Grecos, or Ibanez, or parts basses, or... YMMV, but I find that people who insist on telling me what I should prefer playing (or playing through) are usually fools and/or blowhards. Play what you love and forget about checking to see if that's OK with anyone else.
^^^
This.
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...I get my undies in bunch when I'm told that the big F is "the only real bass", "Leo got it right" etc., etc. ...
It's this one that bugs me, and that sentiment is not limited to guitars, either.
Lately I've been all about my Danelectro Longhorn. Hard to be snobby about that!
My list of basses includes one Fender, two Fender types (a G&L and a Don R. Miller), Gibsons, a Ric, a Jerry Jones, three BaCH NRs and a couple of Danelectros.
I only have one guitar, a 2002 MIM Classic '50s Telecaster.
Why do I feel like I've forgotten something? :P
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I always think about the guy who told me how heavy (weight) Gibson Tbirds are. I asked him if he ever touched one. He didn't.
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I always think about the guy who told me how heavy (weight) Gibson Tbirds are. I asked him if he ever touched one. He didn't.
Haha, that's a perfect example right there.
My Fender is the third heaviest bass I own, and not by much.
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I have four fenders..........
On my Subaru, where they belong ;D
Just two, Mark. The rears are called quarter panels. :D Unless, of course, the car is a VW Beetle or something old.
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I love the bass that speaks to me today. Sometimes that's one of my Gibsons, or Fenders, or Grecos, or Ibanez, or parts basses, or... YMMV, but I find that people who insist on telling me what I should prefer playing (or playing through) are usually fools and/or blowhards. Play what you love and forget about checking to see if that's OK with anyone else.
I'm with this. A Fender, Gibson, Gretsch or Squier may be my pick of the day. And yes, that other forum is quite Fender-centric. I think much of that is because it skews much younger than this one, and many of the younger players don't have the experience with a variety of instruments and brands that we do.
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I always think about the guy who told me how heavy (weight) Gibson Tbirds are. I asked him if he ever touched one. He didn't.
Ignorance can be a very powerful delusion, whether the topic is basses or something else. I've noticed that no matter what the topic, many times the ones who seem most convinced they have everything figured out are in reality the most clueless. It's pretty easy for someone to memorize the pat answers to everything and then think he is some kind of guru.
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Just two, Mark. The rears are called quarter panels. :D Unless, of course, the car is a VW Beetle or something old.
Is my 1/2 of heine a quarter panel then :o
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Lately I've been gigging the beat up Alvarez 6 string again...it's got enough notes...
And it snarls...
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I love the bass that speaks to me today. Sometimes that's one of my Gibsons, or Fenders, or Grecos, or Ibanez, or parts basses, or... YMMV, but I find that people who insist on telling me what I should prefer playing (or playing through) are usually fools and/or blowhards. Play what you love and forget about checking to see if that's OK with anyone else.
Once long ago, I went amp shopping while traveling to New York City. It was a social trip, I didn't bring my bass. Wanted to check out Edens and I'd found a store in NYC that had them. At the time I favored a bright P-bass tone - with roundwounds. Hey, I grew up on Live at Leeds, so it made sense to me. The guy handed me a precision, with flats. I asked if they had anything else, told him what I liked, he looked at me with utter disdain and said, "You have to use flats on a P-bass."
I never did go back to that store, even after I moved to NYC.
Sometimes the bass that speaks to me is my Danelectro reissue which I paid all of $200 for. I put rounds on that too :-p
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I use rounds on my Dano also...
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Is my 1/2 of heine a quarter panel then :o
This place is full of unintentional innuendo. In a good way. ;D
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Is my 1/2 of heine a quarter panel then :o
Make that half a Sonje Henie, would you?
(http://www.bellazon.com/main/uploads/monthly_10_2011/post-37737-1319716560.jpg)
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Does this quarter panel make my butt look big? ;)
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Nah, you got the legs for it! :mrgreen:
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My list of basses includes one Fender, two Fender types (a G&L and a Don R. Miller), Gibsons, a Ric, a Jerry Jones, three BaCH NRs and a couple of Danelectros.
Why do I feel like I've forgotten something? :P
You did forget something, something that would make some green with envy.
And if you ever decide to sell the Bach I sold to you I will buy it back.
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I love the bass that speaks to me today. Sometimes that's one of my Gibsons, or Fenders, or Grecos, or Ibanez, or parts basses, or... YMMV, but I find that people who insist on telling me what I should prefer playing (or playing through) are usually fools and/or blowhards. Play what you love and forget about checking to see if that's OK with anyone else.
Exactly - although I spend the bulk of my stage time with a Fender on, I also play EBMM, Gibson, Schecter, Peavey - and have played Spector, Ric, and a bunch of other brands as well... IME/IMO, a seasoned player can rock just about anything, and usually isn't too concerned with the gear choices of others...
- georgestrings
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I don't really think it's snobbery. It's more a way of poking fun or striking back at anyone who tells you that you should only play Fender.
Yeah, that's pretty much how I see things here, too...
- georgestrings
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I'm with this. A Fender, Gibson, Gretsch or Squier may be my pick of the day. And yes, that other forum is quite Fender-centric. I think much of that is because it skews much younger than this one, and many of the younger players don't have the experience with a variety of instruments and brands that we do.
There is a fairly strong anti-Fender push over there as well - mostly by those trying to look cool by slamming the old standard, IMO... IME, *most* of the points brought up against Fender are usually fairly irrational... I've never claimed that Fender is the best choice for everyone - but to see some of the crap flung at them by some people, you'd think a Fender kicked their puppy or something - it's pretty comical at times...
- georgestrings
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There is a fairly strong anti-Fender push over there as well - mostly by those trying to look cool by slamming the old standard, IMO... IME, *most* of the points brought up against Fender are usually fairly irrational... I've never claimed that Fender is the best choice for everyone - but to see some of the crap flung at them by some people, you'd think a Fender kicked their puppy or something - it's pretty comical at times...
- georgestrings
There's also considerable snobbery in favor of the US-made Fenders, and many members seem to think that anything made in Mexico or overseas is not worthy. Squiers are beloved by some, considered dog-doo by others.
Whereas the criticism often leveled at Gibson here is generally done "with love" by people who play the same gear they critique.
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There's also considerable snobbery in favor of the US-made Fenders, and many members seem to think that anything made in Mexico or overseas is not worthy. Squiers are beloved by some, considered dog-doo by others.
Whereas the criticism often leveled at Gibson here is generally done "with love" by people who play the same gear they critique.
IMO, it's more a matter of replies to "my MIM Fender, Squier, SX, etc... is just as good as an MIA Fender", than it is actual MIA snobbery... In fact, I don't think I've ever seen any of the MIA fans call the other stuff garbage - but I've seen PLENTY of questionable claims by the fans of the lower end stuff you mentioned...
Sorry if you don't see it that way - we'll have to agree to disagree on the matter...
- georgestrings
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You did forget something, something that would make some green with envy.
And if you ever decide to sell the Bach I sold to you I will buy it back.
You will always have first crack at it! If you had a black or white Series I I'm sure we could work out something sooner rather than later.
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IMO, it's more a matter of replies to "my MIM Fender, Squier, SX, etc... is just as good as an MIA Fender", than it is actual MIA snobbery... In fact, I don't think I've ever seen any of the MIA fans call the other stuff garbage - but I've seen PLENTY of questionable claims by the fans of the lower end stuff you mentioned...
Sorry if you don't see it that way - we'll have to agree to disagree on the matter...
- georgestrings
Nah, no argument. I don't care that much anyway. If anything I'm one of the Squier/MIM fans.
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IMO, it's more a matter of replies to "my MIM Fender, Squier, SX, etc... is just as good as an MIA Fender", than it is actual MIA snobbery... In fact, I don't think I've ever seen any of the MIA fans call the other stuff garbage - but I've seen PLENTY of questionable claims by the fans of the lower end stuff you mentioned...
Sorry if you don't see it that way - we'll have to agree to disagree on the matter...
- georgestrings
I've sure heard MIA Fender fans refer to or imply the MIM stuff is bad. When I asked my former neighbor if he'd be interested in trying out one of my basses, he said "I only play American made Fenders."
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If anything I'm one of the Squier/MIM fans.
I figured that - no prob... I've owned a TON of MIM Fenders, and gigged a pair of MIK Squiers for nearly 10 years - they've all been solid, reliable basses for me, just not quite on par with the MIA Fenders I normally play these days...
I recently picked up a MIM Squier P Bass for next to nothing - I'll see if I can find a pic of it...
- georgestrings
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I'm kind of an equal-opportunity bass guy. I've enjoyed playing old Kay KB-2 basses and a number of different makes and models.
I had a 2000 Midnight Blue MIM Jazz for a number of years; it sound great, played great. I also have a real 1963 Precision...and it's no better bass than the J is/was. One sounded like a P, one sounded like a J, but in terms of "sound quality" I couldn't pick between them. The P is a lot lighter, but it's normal for a J to run heavier than a P. I also have a Squier Bronco with a Gretsch 2202 pickup that's a great-sounding and playing bass. Nice light body, fast neck, all the hardware works great.
And no matter what I play, for some reason I sound like me. Good or bad, that's about all I can ask.
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Here's a pic of the MIM Squier I mentioned before:
(http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss118/georgestrings/MIMSquierPBass_zpsd7cb50c0.jpg) (http://s567.photobucket.com/user/georgestrings/media/MIMSquierPBass_zpsd7cb50c0.jpg.html)
I added the tort PG and bridge cover - it already had the QPs on it when I got it...
- georgestrings
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I'm fine with the sound and the handling of Fender P and J. And I like the look of a Jaguar bass though I didn't like the active electronics of the initial batch. I have about half a dozen Fenders.
I'm an obsessive non-conformist so the prevalence and ubiquity of Fenders always bugged me. Many people think of Sid Vicious or the iconic The Clash - London Calling cover when they think of a P Bass. I can't help it, but I think of boring dance, Top 40 and non-descript Jazz-Funk bands when I think of a Fender. For some reason, these bands were never seen with a Thunderbird bass.
It's not an anti-Fender thing as such with me. I probably prefer Fender Strats (Blackmore! Gallagher! Gilmour! Hendrix! Boring dance and Top 40 bands!!!) and Teles (Status Quo! Keith Richards!) to any Gibson guitar though I have an affinity for Firebirds (reverse ones) which are hardly ever played by guitarists because they don't like neck-thrus, the darn cretins.
But in the end: If you can't get a decent sound out of any 400 Dollar bass available on the market today, you should perhaps play more tennis.
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But in the end: If you can't get a decent sound out of any 400 Dollar bass available on the market today, you should perhaps play more tennis.
+1
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... or the iconic The Clash - London Calling cover...
Pennie Smith took that one - she was one of the house snappers for NME... she still has a little s/h book-shop in the same place since I was a teenager... lived round the corner from me... and I still have hundreds of her originals... she used to sell the scraps for 10p each... one of my favourite pics of hers I own is a shot of Muddy Waters with a Tele... much of the stuff I have is unpublished...
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Pennie Smith took that one - she was one of the house snappers for NME... she still has a little s/h book-shop in the same place since I was a teenager... lived round the corner from me... and I still have hundreds of her originals... she used to sell the scraps for 10p each... one of my favourite pics of hers I own is a shot of Muddy Waters with a Tele... much of the stuff I have is unpublished...
I don't know what you've got. But I'd take great care of it. Last week on TV they were showing an old Hendrix poster being sold for an incredibly high amount. I don't even remember the amount. But it was so high, I was beyond stunned. My only thought, though, was that someone was making a big mistake and overpricing it by the thousands.
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I saw that on Antiques Roadshow and was amazed. And that was just a concert poster, imagine if it had been a good photo that hadn't been published before.
Ken, any more photos of famous musicians?
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I saw that on Antiques Roadshow and was amazed. And that was just a concert poster, imagine if it had been a good photo that hadn't been published before.
Ken, any more photos of famous musicians?
I think this was on that pawn shop show which I have been critical of before. However, they're right more than I am. Plus, on that Hendrix poster I would have said it was worth far less and it looks like I would have been very wrong. Still, I find it hard to grasp how a poster like that can be worth so much.
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The one I saw was definitely on Antiques Roadshow a couple of weeks ago, but since their new season just started last week, the show I saw was a repeat.
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The one I saw was definitely on Antiques Roadshow a couple of weeks ago, but since their new season just started last week, the show I saw was a repeat.
It's obviously similar items on different shows then. I don't know what it is about Antiques Roadshow. I've only seen it a few times. But every time I'm left wondering why an aunt or uncle couldn't have left me with some obscure paintings or something now worth hundreds of thousands.
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I sold a few hundred of them a few years back... I still have a box of slides... Hawkwind with Lemmy, CSNY, Zep at Knebworth and loads of odds-n-sodz...
This is a low-res of some guy now gone...
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... and this guy, who's also joined the great rhythm section in the sky...
Most of them were 10x8 glossies...
No country legends though, Dave...
I have some movie "quads" and concert posters I sold - some I kept...
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Posters... Cinema... original Terminator, but the rarer one of the two, the "art" one... original Bladerunner... Zep's TSRTS one... Neil Young - Rust Never Sleeps... Star Trek, the Motion Picture...
Tour ones... Hotel California... Skynyrd's GBMB and On The British Road... Rush's Permanent Waves, the withdrawn one showing CHT Dewey Defeats Truman... I also have a withdrawn cover with it too... a beautiful PF Wish You Were Here "diver" shot... the one below...
All items I'll put on display one day as art...
Most of it's not even 3 figure values but I like them...
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The one I saw was definitely on Antiques Roadshow a couple of weeks ago, but since their new season just started last week, the show I saw was a repeat.
Just imagine what that Che pic on the fridge might bring today, Companero!
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I'll bet you have a real treasure trove, Ken.
Just imagine what that Che pic on the fridge might bring today, Companero!
That's one I wouldn't care about even if it were valuable. :P
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Dave... there are items I "treasure" that are perceived as worthless and vice-versa, as I am sure you understand, and I'm also sure you have the same circumstances in your life, both present and past... Dakota would be a perfect example...
Below is a picture of a bottle of malt whisky that belonged to my late dad... the distillery closed in the 80's so it had a value... I could buy a "replacement" for circa £300 (nearly €400 or $500)... I chose to open it at the most recent reunion of 230 Squadron (I act as the editor for their newsletter). Historically, as they know, if it were not for their predecessors actions I would not be here, and the reason I do some of my research, and being in the final stages of a history of those events to try be published...
So, it made sense to me to raise a glass to the memory of those now passed, and to thank them for the lives they saved, and the lives that followed...
Tomorrow, 9/11/14, I'll be up at granddad's statue, just opposite a monster display of nearly 900K ceramic poppies in the moat of the Tower of London, for some other event now 100 years past,to pay my respects, then up to Whitehall to be at the Chindit Memorial for 1100, for a 60 second moment of silence for events that took place 70 years ago...
Now those are priceless moments...
ps... yes, I did pour them all...
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That was a nice thing to do.
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Tasted good too... :mrgreen:
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I bet Kenny. That honey amber color would make for a sweet les Paul burst. What region? Speyside, lowland, highland, islay or island? And to the 230 squadron I say slainte!
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I wondered how that would taste, although that, of course, isn't the most important part of all this. Looks like quite a memorable event took place.
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I'm sure that was some good malt whisky Kenny, cheers :)
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So you still haven't gotten over her then?
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... What region? Speyside, lowland, highland, islay or island?
Montrose... classed as "Highland" but a Dundee region postcode, Ari...
Smooth it was Mark... a number of people remarked on it even though they were not Malt drinkers...
Uwe... too cryptic for my brain-cell... presume aimed at Mark...?
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Naw, Dave. One of his youth experiences. Kept secret all these years. My lips are sealed. :-X
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GP...?
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So you still haven't gotten over her then?
Are you kidding? I was over her halfway through the date!
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Wot, all over her halfway through the date? :o I'm both impressed and aghast then. And I thought you were an old style gentleman. No tongue and such. On the first date at least. Now I know that first chance you get, you do things by halves ...
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Wot, all over her halfway through the date? :o I'm both impressed and aghast then. And I thought you were an old style gentleman. No tongue and such. On the first date at least. Now I know that first chance you get, you do things by halves ...
:mrgreen:
I won't respond to your provocation. And I didn't respond to hers either.
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How insensitive then. 8)
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Some detail would be nice :mrgreen:
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Dave's posts always open more doors than they close. A conundrum, the man.
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Some detail would be nice :mrgreen:
Uwe feels compelled to bring this up occasionally, going back to the early Pit days when I made the mistake of bringing it up although I've long forgotten in what context.
Here's a copy and paste of my response from the last time he brought it up:
The Bonnie story: when I was 22, a co-worker set me up with a girl who she said was just perfect for me. She turned out to be 27 y.o. radical leftist with a big drawing of Che on her refrigerator. She had taught her 10 y.o. daughter to always refer to police as fascist pigs. I took her out to a popular dance spot where she griped because she wanted to dance to "acid rock." The story amused Uwe.
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Commie-lover!!! :mrgreen:
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Thanks Dave!
Context is everything :)
"Acid Rock", haven't heard that in a while!
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Voilà!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp0PLPwQM1Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-PFWBzrbs8
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I think I need to catch up on my recreational drug use ???
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I understand that the Marley family are planning a significant foray into the chemical market now certain States are "altered-states"... :o
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Thanks Dave!
Context is everything :)
"Acid Rock", haven't heard that in a while!
This was 45 years ago and "acid rock" was already becoming a dated phrase.
Could have been worse, if it had been five years later she might have wanted to dance to prog. ;D
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Hendrix predicted acid rock would go out of style even when it was in its prime. But I still like it even today.
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Could have been worse, if it had been five years later she might have wanted to dance to prog. ;D
Yikes! You could have wound up in a wheel chair!
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Storm the dancefloor!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EF29ueaivFQ
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=5EseHvjrZcA
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Damn Kenny you beat me to it!
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You have my sincere apologies, in a wild and freaky off-beat rhythmic pattern... :mrgreen:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAi1WDj8XTU