The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Outpost Cafe => Topic started by: westen44 on August 01, 2014, 01:18:52 PM
-
Recently, I got into a discussion with two people who like the Dave Matthews Band a lot. One of them is a good friend. So our discussion was polite, interesting and civil. We had already established that our tastes in music were very different. So, it was no surprise when I asked her about Dave Matthews and she said she liked him. The other person isn't a friend, and in fact, got really offended, lashed out at me, said he hated bands that I liked, etc.
I realize that people do have different tastes. Nothing could be more obvious. Yet, I am baffled that the DMB is so incredibly successful. I've tried listening to the music several times and it's always the same result. With the possible exception of Modest Mouse, this may be the worst music I've ever heard. It sounds like a drunk person mumbling. Earlier today, mostly out of curiosity, I made one last attempt to listen to Dave Matthew songs on YouTube. The result is that it actually physically drained me. It was kind of like recovering from the flu. You're trying to be okay, but feel so weak and drained anyway. Yet according to Wikipedia, the DMB made more money and sold more tickets from 2000 to 2010 than anybody else. I guess I must be living in the wrong country. I honestly don't understand what's going on. Also, what kind of music is this anyway? One person described it as "mood music." I have no idea what that is even supposed to mean. Dave Matthews has been around for quite a while. I had assumed that sooner or later I would figure out what the appeal is supposed to be with this music, but that simply has never happened.
-
People like different music.
I find rap rather repulsive, and wouldn't ever listen to it voluntarily - but it doesn't help that I can't understand a word of it and I find that it often has little or no melody, just rhythm and bass. To my ears which are long educated to classical music, jazz and 12-bar-blues derived rock, most rap isn't even music. That doesn't mean I strongly object to it, I simply find it to be noise.
I am not familiar with Dave Mathews but I dialed them up on YouTube and I find them rather pleasant to listen to. Good musicianship, I can hear the lyrics, overall a pleasant experience. Not my cup of tea for prolonged listening, but I can't find anything which would provoke such a strong response.
OTOH, Westen44 might not be thrilled to listen to a stack of old SRV, Doors, Danny Gatton and ZZ Top CDs along with me.
-
People like different music.
I find rap rather repulsive, and wouldn't ever listen to it voluntarily - but it doesn't help that I can't understand a word of it and I find that it often has little or no melody, just rhythm and bass. To my ears which are long educated to classical music, jazz and 12-bar-blues derived rock, most rap isn't even music. That doesn't mean I strongly object to it, I simply find it to be noise.
I am not familiar with Dave Mathews but I dialed them up on YouTube and I find them rather pleasant to listen to. Good musicianship, I can hear the lyrics, overall a pleasant experience. Not my cup of tea for prolonged listening, but I can't find anything which would provoke such a strong response.
OTOH, Westen44 might not be thrilled to listen to a stack of old SRV, Doors, Danny Gatton and ZZ Top CDs along with me.
That music you listed is great music. I was even listening to ZZ Top live as a college student before Billy and Dusty had their beards.
-
I never got the appeal of Dave Matthews Band either - I saw them open for Col. Bruce Hampton & the Aquarium Rescue Unit and was underwhelmed. I think some people liked him for the songwriting, others for the energy the band brought - the violinist and saxophonist seemed cool, and the drummer actually was pretty amazing when he let loose!
-
I never got the appeal of Dave Matthews Band either - I saw them open for Col. Bruce Hampton & the Aquarium Rescue Unit and was underwhelmed. I think some people liked him for the songwriting, others for the energy the band brought - the violinist and saxophonist seemed cool, and the drummer actually was pretty amazing when he let loose!
Thanks. This is actually giving me some more insight. I suspected there might be more to the picture than I was seeing. But I just didn't know what it was. I also have a feeling the music must be connecting emotionally to people in some way.
-
Pulled this from a blog :mrgreen::
"The Dave Matthews Band is, it seems to us, the sort of band that people who don’t really like music veer towards, because it’s easy but it allows the fans to pretend that they’re into jazz rock fusion and are therefore quite clever. If you meet a girl at a bar and ask her what kind of music she likes, and she replies, “Oh, I like everything,” the chances are she likes the Dave Matthews Band, radio rock, and nothing challenging.
Am I missing something? What is it about this intolerable dullard that drives so many people to part with so much money? Please, seriously, tell me.
I ask again, who likes the Dave Matthews Band? Because, from here, it appears to be highly paid business types who want to be cool for an evening, before returning to their real life. Matthews is the musical equivalent of beige, or boiled broccoli with no gravy. He’s just there. He doesn’t disgust, but he’s not worth raising your head for."
-
Old quote but still valid.
"We live in an age of music for people who don't like music. The record industry discovered some time ago that there aren't that many people who actually like music. For a lot of people, music's annoying, or at the very least they don't need it. They discovered if they could sell music to a lot of those people, they could sell a lot more records." -- T-Bone Burnett
-
Old quote but still valid.
"We live in an age of music for people who don't like music. The record industry discovered some time ago that there aren't that many people who actually like music. For a lot of people, music's annoying, or at the very least they don't need it. They discovered if they could sell music to a lot of those people, they could sell a lot more records." -- T-Bone Burnett
If that is the case, then the sky is the limit for mind-numbing mediocrity in music.
-
I have never understood the appeal of DMB. I don't hate them or their music, I am just completely indifferent to them. They don't matter to me at all. I do tend to lump them in with bands like Nickleback and Coldplay. Bands that people seem to like more as background music in their life rather than music that gets you excited or that you are passionate about. But then again I know people can go thru my music collection and wonder what the Hell I see in a lot of my music.
-
I think you're over thinking about it. I'm not overly fond of DMB either but I'm not overly fond of lots of music. DMB has taken over the cult status of the Dead I think and I never liked them either. I wish I could remember who said of Jerry Garcia: " A waste of perfectly good drugs."
Do you like Jimmy Reed or John Lee Hooker? I do. Hardly complicated. Do you like Miles? I do. Can be pretty complicated. Do you like Stravinsky? I do. Very complicated. I've never bothered to find a logical connection between Jimmy Reed and Stravinsky that makes me like both of them.
I don't really know why I like or dislike the music I do. Do you?
Most people don't listen to music the way musicians do anyway. Most of the musicians here aren't selling music , they're selling beer. It's just not a perfect world.
-
Just to touch on Jerry, since he came up. He was not only good, he was a great musician. I'll grant you the Grateful Dead as a band can be tedious and often times sloppy but most of what made that band great when it was cooking was because of Jerry. He played great bluegrass banjo and a very unique style of pedal steel guitar. Check out the album Old and in the way, if you haven't already. The best examples of his pedal steel playing would be "Teach Your Children" by CSN which he guests on and "The Wheel" from his 1972 Garcia solo album. Oh yeah, Jerry played every instrument except for the drums on that first solo album and as much as I like Phil's playing Jerry does a much better job keeping things in the pocket with his bass playing. I personally find his singing voice to be very soulful and sweet.
Indeed, DMB blows hard.
-
...
Do you like Jimmy Reed or John Lee Hooker? I do. Hardly complicated. Do you like Miles? I do. Can be pretty complicated. Do you like Stravinsky? I do. Very complicated. I've never bothered to find a logical connection between Jimmy Reed and Stravinsky that makes me like both of them.
I don't really know why I like or dislike the music I do. Do you?
Most people don't listen to music the way musicians do anyway. Most of the musicians here aren't selling music , they're selling beer. It's just not a perfect world.
Amen.
You like music of substance. Same here, even though we might not like the same artists. In my experience, many non-musicians just don't want to be challenged by anything of real substance.
-
I think you're over thinking about it. I'm not overly fond of DMB either but I'm not overly fond of lots of music. DMB has taken over the cult status of the Dead I think and I never liked them either. I wish I could remember who said of Jerry Garcia: " A waste of perfectly good drugs."
Do you like Jimmy Reed or John Lee Hooker? I do. Hardly complicated. Do you like Miles? I do. Can be pretty complicated. Do you like Stravinsky? I do. Very complicated. I've never bothered to find a logical connection between Jimmy Reed and Stravinsky that makes me like both of them.
I don't really know why I like or dislike the music I do. Do you?
Most people don't listen to music the way musicians do anyway. Most of the musicians here aren't selling music , they're selling beer. It's just not a perfect world.
I wasn't aware of the fact that the DMB had achieved cult status. That does give me some more insight, though. The fan that I talked to some time ago told me his hatred for the music that I liked was beyond human comprehension and that he loved the DMB.
-
DM who...?
Someone I've totally missed and probably don't need to be concerned...
-
DM who...?
Someone I've totally missed and probably don't need to be concerned...
I should be so lucky.
-
Just the other day I spied a comely young lass in my rear view mirror while stopped at a traffic light. She was nothing special. Maybe a little cute because she was young but that's not why I peered at her for so long though the safety of my mirror and sunglasses.
She was singing along with whatever music was playing in her car. Bopping and swaying, almost dancing in her seat.There was no trickery, no pretense, no one to impress with her taste. It grabbed her, touched her soul. Granted, this fantasy might have soured had I been able to here what was playing in her car but i was very aware that I was observing the magical, illogical, inexplicable attraction between music and humans.
Made me feel good.
Now maybe she was listening to Jimmy Reed or maybe it was Dave Mathews but more than likely it was some modern pop concoction that would make my ears cry in pain. I try not to belittle this personal, mystical connection between this girl and her trashy pop tune. There's far to little magic left in the world these days.
-
Now maybe she was listening to Jimmy Reed or maybe it was Dave Mathews but more than likely it was some modern pop concoction that would make my ears cry in pain. I try not to belittle this personal, mystical connection between this girl and her trashy pop tune. There's far to little magic left in the world these days.
Nicely said.
A few months ago I had the chance to DJ at a birthday dance party for a friend of my daughter who was turning 13. It was all trashy pop by request. (played Katy Perry's Dark Horse three times) They was dancing, singing along, running around and clearly connecting with the music as a group bonding experience. Maybe part of DMB's appeal (and the Dead and all kinds of music) is primarily about connecting with other people? If I don't connect with people then I probabaly don't get their music either. Just a thought.
-
DM who...?
Someone I've totally missed and probably don't need to be concerned...
I had missed them, too. I can't say that I feel the poorer for that fact.
-
Nicely said.
A few months ago I had the chance to DJ at a birthday dance party for a friend of my daughter who was turning 13. It was all trashy pop by request. (played Katy Perry's Dark Horse three times) They was dancing, singing along, running around and clearly connecting with the music as a group bonding experience. Maybe part of DMB's appeal (and the Dead and all kinds of music) is primarily about connecting with other people? If I don't connect with people then I probabaly don't get their music either. Just a thought.
I observed in an earlier post that the DMB music "must be connecting emotionally with people in some way." Most likely that is the case. It's just that different music connects with people in different ways. I don't connect emotionally to it at all, but the music that I do like almost always affects me on an emotional level. The topic of emotion in music is something I've focused on many times through the years in talking to other musicians.
-
The Grateful Dead connected with many people - never interested me any more than Dave Mathews does. Dif'rent strokes connect emotionally to different people.
-
The Grateful Dead connected with many people - never interested me any more than Dave Mathews does. Dif'rent strokes connect emotionally to different people.
If everyone liked the same thing, the scenario would be like The Borg on Star Trek Next Generation. It wouldn't be very appealing.
-
I tried to get the dead but all I learnt was that they were dead... boring... imho...
-
I tried to get the dead but all I learnt was that they were dead... boring... imho...
Make that two of us.
-
Acid helps.
-
I'd never take something like that in a million years. Seriously, though, it's how George Harrison said he came to believe in God.
-
Just the other day I spied a comely young lass in my rear view mirror while stopped at a traffic light. She was nothing special. Maybe a little cute because she was young but that's not why I peered at her for so long though the safety of my mirror and sunglasses.
She was singing along with whatever music was playing in her car. Bopping and swaying, almost dancing in her seat.There was no trickery, no pretense, no one to impress with her taste. It grabbed her, touched her soul. Granted, this fantasy might have soured had I been able to here what was playing in her car but i was very aware that I was observing the magical, illogical, inexplicable attraction between music and humans.
Made me feel good.
Now maybe she was listening to Jimmy Reed or maybe it was Dave Mathews but more than likely it was some modern pop concoction that would make my ears cry in pain. I try not to belittle this personal, mystical connection between this girl and her trashy pop tune. There's far to little magic left in the world these days.
I watch the Today Show for a little while every morning mainly to catch the news and local weather. Every Friday they have a concert on the plaza featuring a name act. Everything from rappers to new country, but mostly pop acts. I've heard of almost all of them but in most cases I haven't heard their music before. And what I hear is mostly meaningless pop pablum without any substance. Nothing I'd ever own.
But you know what? There are always huge crowds, they love whoever is playing, they move, they sway, they seem to know every word of every song. The music means something to them, no matter how dreadful I think it is. It makes them happy, and I can't criticize that.
-
DMB is one of those polarizing bands that you either get, or don't. Much like the Dead or Phish. They've been good customers of mine for over 12 years, and make boatloads of money every summer. They have a semi trailer that's a playroom for the kids. They have another that's a workout room. I can go to any DMB show I want. I went once (Buddy Guy was the opener). I left a few songs into their set. 8) Just not for me. Killer musicianship though.
-
Dave Matthews is not a prolific song-writer, despite what some may say. He hooked up with some bonafide heavy-weights early on (Stefan Lessard and Carter Beauford) and they attempted to meld Rock, Jazz, Country, Bluegrass, etc. into something new. What resulted sounds almost Zappa-esque to me at times and is all over the map. The material that hit the main-stream is definitely the better written and cohesive of his stuff and has some limited pop sensibility, however. I understand what he`s trying to do I just don`t think the well is very deep. The guys he`s playing with are fantastic players in their own right but they aren`t song-writers either. They prop up his `ok` songwriting with great musicianship. Try as I might - and I have alot of DMB on mp3 - I like only about 15% of his material. I really do want to like more of it but alot of it leaves me cold.
So from the DMB`s perspective, how do you remedy the situation and keep playing? You take what you can get from mainstream radio and turn the DMB into a jam-band ..... fill the void of the Dead. Create a vibe at the shows, market the hell out of it, network, appeal to the demographic with money (Ivy-league college kids, young professionals) and tour, tour, tour. Release something - ANYTHING - once every year or two ..... the minnions will buy it. This he does better than anyone.
I do agree though - non-musicians listen to music with a different set of ears entirely. It`s not just about the songs - it`s about the vibe, the fact that their friends are into the music too, the concert experience, the airplay, the videos ..... there`s alot of variables at play there. Who are we to judge?
Personally, I`d still rather listen DMB than most of what`s on the radio these days and from a players perspective, give me DMB over Lady Gaga, Pink, One Direction or Katy Perry anyday.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lW-rhz4p8ZE
Sparsely orchestrated, introspective, earnest singer/songwriter adult rock (= no loud guitars) that takes itself very, very serious (and as always is therefore on the border of being laughable). It's nothing new, this stuff has been with us since the late sixties, it's actually very much an American art form. DMB fans probably consider Sting and REM "rock" too. Let them. Doesn't quite pass my Made in Japan-test though, music without smashed Strats is kinda self-defeating. :mrgreen:
I'm not putting it down, lots of people like that stuff because they somehow consider it deep and non-childish. I can listen to music like that too (quote Frank Zappa: "I can take about an hour of the Tower of Power as long as I get some golden shower ..."), but after an hour or so I need something adolescent and escapist again! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIlJ-NcLGcU
I mean really adolescent and escapist!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQfidTOTsLo
I guess that wasn't very deep just now ... :-[ :-[ :-[
-
PS: See, that is what the Outpost is good for! Just ordered two DMB CDs (actually four because they are doubles), that means that I will have more DMB CDs now than I have Mud CDs, but less than I have Starz CDs. In my CD collection everyone gets along.
True story: Up to now I never knew what music the Dave Matthews Band actually played, I thought they were country'ish!
-
DMB is one of those polarizing bands that you either get, or don't. Much like the Dead or Phish. They've been good customers of mine for over 12 years, and make boatloads of money every summer. They have a semi trailer that's a playroom for the kids. They have another that's a workout room. I can go to any DMB show I want. I went once (Buddy Guy was the opener). I left a few songs into their set. 8) Just not for me. Killer musicianship though.
You hit two really important points: you either get it or you don't, and the killer musicianship. I had forgotten that when they opened for Aquarium Rescue Unit before they were big, ARU had the drummer sit in on "Time is Free" one of the most intense songs, and he tore it up! Very few people could have sat in with ARU, this was around 1992 or 3. I think that musicianship angle is an important aspect of DMB, something that sets them apart from other mainstream stuff. But also, the musicianship wasn't enough for me personally in the case of DMB.
I do agree though - non-musicians listen to music with a different set of ears entirely. It`s not just about the songs - it`s about the vibe, the fact that their friends are into the music too, the concert experience, the airplay, the videos ..... there`s alot of variables at play there. Who are we to judge?
I think it's important to remember that there are still some non-musicians that still appreciate good musicianship, and to me that seems to be part of the appeal of DMB, though once a band gets HUGE maybe it's less of a factor?
I'm not putting it down, lots of people like that stuff because they somehow consider it deep and non-childish. I can listen to music like that too (quote Frank Zappa: "I can take about an hour of the Tower of Power as long as I get some golden shower ..."), but after an hour or so I need something adolescent and escapist again!
I believe the quote is actually "I can take about an hour ON the Tower of Power as long as I gets a little golden shower ..." and I don't think he was referring to the band... ;D
-
One of my friends says this is the DMB song which she thinks is possibly her favorite. I can't listen all the way through, just like I can't listen all the way through any of his songs. In my mind, the people marketing this are geniuses who could sell snow to an Eskimo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_B5Rug-A9Q
-
I believe the quote is actually "I can take about an hour ON the Tower of Power as long as I gets a little golden shower ..." and I don't think he was referring to the band... ;D
Shucks, I should listen more often to Uncle Frank.
Note to self: Bands that have their living rooms on stage (in part or in whole) are generally not very "rawk". That is another thing to watch out for - besides whether they smash Strats. :mrgreen:
Flash thought: People who think DMB rocks probably think that Radiohead rocks too. Now I feel, sigh, miserable again, time for another dose of Mud ...
-
Radiohead. That's another band I've never figured out. I remember hearing about the hoopla, people raving about them. I tried listening to them, watched videos, even saw a good part of a concert on TV. I remained puzzled even after hearing quite a big chunk of their music.
-
One of my friends says this is the DMB song which she thinks is possibly her favorite. I can't listen all the way through, just like I can't listen all the way through any of his songs. In my mind, the people marketing this are geniuses who could sell snow to an Eskimo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_B5Rug-A9Q
I didn't make it through the first minute. Good lord, that's awful. Even worse than having to listen to Jason Mraz.
OTOH I shouldn't have tried to listen to it right after listening to a Mitch Ryder playlist on YT. Makes DMB sound even worse by comparison.
-
A lot of musicians pale next to Mitch Ryder Good lord, that man can still cook....
Here's 2008...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dd9qjHUyHQ
-
I didn't make it through the first minute. Good lord, that's awful. Even worse than having to listen to Jason Mraz.
OTOH I shouldn't have tried to listen to it right after listening to a Mitch Ryder playlist on YT. Makes DMB sound even worse by comparison.
I hardly know what to say. Obviously, there are plenty of people that like the music and are surprised that other people don't like it. I speak from experience. But give me Mitch Ryder, please.
-
Acid helps.
Hydrochloric...? :o :mrgreen:
Spinning off in another direction, musically, but in the muzak form... Jackie's a C&W fan and when she was younger saw many of the legends from Cash and the Carters to Dolly, Loretta, Tammy, etc, but took in "new-country" only reticently - admittedly, her present fave, Alan Jackson, is more old-school than new - but much of it is in that same vein - slick, clean, generic...
Would Garth Brooks be an equivalent to DMB in that genre...?
-
Hey, no knocking Garth here!!! I love some of the stuff he did, whenever I hear this here (original version unfortunately not available on youtube), a film starts running in my head and I get goosebumps (of the nice kind!).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qN76fKjbTrE
-
Hydrochloric...? :o :mrgreen:
Spinning off in another direction, musically, but in the muzak form... Jackie's a C&W fan and when she was younger saw many of the legends from Cash and the Carters to Dolly, Loretta, Tammy, etc, but took in "new-country" only reticently - admittedly, her present fave, Alan Jackson, is more old-school than new - but much of it is in that same vein - slick, clean, generic...
Would Garth Brooks be an equivalent to DMB in that genre...?
I don't see even a remote correlation. Sure, Garth isn't old fashioned country but his music and his outlook are about 180 degrees from Dave Matthews.
OTOH compared to the current crop of poseurs, some people think Garth is old fashioned country.
-
I didn't make it through the first minute. Good lord, that's awful. Even worse than having to listen to Jason Mraz.
OTOH I shouldn't have tried to listen to it right after listening to a Mitch Ryder playlist on YT. Makes DMB sound even worse by comparison.
I too didn't make it a minute. I like most kinds of music, maybe it's just that I prefer music with bass and drums. I am certainly not a DMB fan, but there is one song that I really like. It does have bass and drums and a nice assortment of styles, and offers a nice balance of hope and despair.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuKr04TQ_mc
-
In the immortal words of the Family Stone, "Different strokes for different folks, and so on and so on and scoobie doobie doobie."
I've always found DMB terminally boring, but it doesn't offend me that so many people love them. Likewise, you guys aren't into Radiohead, but I loves me some Radiohead. They haven't cared about "rock" per se for at least 15 years, they're just making the music that interests them - and, usually, me.
And several people in this thread referenced the Doors, who I think of as another one of those polarizing bands - people are either fans or hate them and I haven't run into a lot of people who are indifferent to them. I've long been in the "hate" camp, but I certainly won't waste time arguing with someone who enjoys Mr. Manzarek's noodling for reasons that continue to escape me :) If you love it and I don't, or vice versa, it doesn't make me respect you less.
Hmm. Did I actually say anything?
-
I just saw Mitch Ryder on the Happy Together tour that Flo and Eddie (Turtles and Frank Zappa singers)headline. He was super cool and told the story about how his song Sock it to me got banned on radio because of being too sexually suggestive forcing him to change the lyrics. He sang the original version at the show and I don't know what the fuss was about.
-
the fuss was that fifty years ago radio was a wee bit different than it is today. never a DMB fan,i do like the fact that he plays an acoustic guitar. really cuts down on mindless solos and gives the other guys a chance to get the spotlight. :o
-
But couldn't he smash it once in a while at least? :mrgreen:
I never "got" the Doors in the sixties, seventies and eighties. Things changed in the nineties and today I'm a card-carrying fan - especially of Manzareks "noodling".
-
I liked Tori Amos before she went totally batshit. I lost all her CD's in the divorce, but still have the ultra-rare vinyl. We're fighting over the Ben Folds stuff. Does that count for anything? DMB is OK I guess and I like only Radiohead's "rock" stuff from the early days that they eschew now. I used to really like the Doors, but now- eh. I have Danzig. Satan is a much better muse than drugs.
I work with a bunch of 20-somethings. One of them knows more Buck Owens songs than I do. Matter of fact, I somehow am the resident punk representative (outside of Metallicunt, metal doesn't exist to those kids), and I'm not even that into punk. THE most annoying person there with music is the mid 20's girl who cranks the same 6 classic rock songs on her phone constantly...EVERY day. If I wanted that, I'd listen to FM radio.
I worked with the Dave Matthews Cover Band once. They were fun. Asked me to toke up on their tour bus with them. Not my thing, but they were sweet to offer. The fact that a cover band had a NICE tour bus should tell you something about DMB's appeal.
-
i liked the misfits but not so much his solo stuff. i liked johnny cash covering him.