The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: Barklessdog on January 12, 2008, 04:36:23 AM
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Anyone have any info of what Gibson will have bass wise at Namm?
A robot bass in the form of a 20/20?
I wonder if they are continuing the GOW line?
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http://www.gibson.com/promotions/reverseflyingv/
Looks like the reverse flying V was a smash hit so they are making it a regular model!
I thought it would sell.
Wonder if a bass version will come out?
Sold out instantly and Gibson was flooded with orders & requests!
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They SHOULD bring out a NR Bird but I'm not holding my breath.
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Actually, that rev Flying V has grown on me.
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Summer NAMM was held in Austin the past two years, it's much smaller than the big January show but Gibson had a big booth both times. Not a single bass at the booth this year, and only one Epi in 2006.
We can hope, but don't hold your breath.
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Looking at the new model introductions of recent years (and assuming that what we see on various Gibson forums is somewhat representative), I guess it is fair to say that the SG RI was a success (who'd have thought given that it is short scale and the SG-Z did so badly), the Doublecut/Money did alright and the Studio TBs flopped (which surprised me: I thought there was a market out there with people who wanted something better than an Epi and something less expensive than a reg TB IV and that the NU Metal brigade would eagerly jump on an available 5 string in TB shape).
So what is the recipe behind the SG RI success?
- People want a traditional look from Gibson and something that stays in the heritage, but sound need not be archaic, some versatility is appreciated. Not everyone has ten or more basses to choose from for various sounds.
- They don't want to pay a king's ransom for it, but they are prepared to pay a Gibson premium.
- They like something that is clearly identifiable as a Gibson at first sight and harks back to some - however vague - historical image.
If you look at the above criteria, they pretty much apply to the similarly successful TB IV too. So the lesson learnt should be that Gibson is most successful with traditionally looking instruments in one of their iconic shapes which are gently modernized to meet current player's demands.
Uwe
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Yo people i'm in
Well, I suspect (ok, hope) that as this is the 50th anniversary of the EB2 we will get a reissue of that...
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SG Faded? Nahhhh! SG Relic!
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/4313_1.jpg)
It'll feature:
- botched pbass route, taped over with duct tape
- crack at jack, neck joint, and headstock
- pre-rounded body contours, giving you that hot amateur refin look!
- fender-style bridge (deluxe model will have BA)
- mismatched knobs
- missing at least one string ferrule
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So what is the recipe behind the SG RI success?
love the duct tape!
I think it was also there is no real iconic short scale out there - that with the devilish SG body (which I always loved). The Fender Mustang, a great bass on it's own is perceived to be an entry level or not a "serious" bass to most- till one hears one!
Its a nice niche market for Gibson. One that has deep nostalgia and a icon in itself
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I have to admit that I'm surprised by the success of the SG-RI. Not that it doesn't deserve it, but that a short scale has done so well. And a non-entry-level short scale at that.
I'm pleased with any Gibson bass success.
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SG Faded? Nahhhh! SG Relic!
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/4313_1.jpg)
It'll feature:
- botched pbass route, taped over with duct tape
- crack at jack, neck joint, and headstock
- pre-rounded body contours, giving you that hot amateur refin look!
- fender-style bridge (deluxe model will have BA)
- mismatched knobs
- missing at least one string ferrule
For the life of me I'll never understand why that model never took off! ;D
I think Uwe summed it up just fine. I still say we need a one pickup NR Bird (NO 3 point bridge...there's got a be a better designed bridge short of a Supertone) from Gibson.
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It slays me than can make a reverse flying V but they won't make a non-reverse Thunderbird, even if were a custom shop version I'd pay the price if reasonable.
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I think it was also there is no real iconic short scale out there - that with the devilish SG body (which I always loved). The Fender Mustang, a great bass on it's own is perceived to be an entry level or not a "serious" bass to most- till one hears one!
Its a nice niche market for Gibson. One that has deep nostalgia and a icon in itself
Err it appears that you forgot two truly iconic short scale basses here...
(http://www.bobdaisley.com/guitars/'59-Danelectro-Longhorn-bas.jpg)
AND
(http://www.thecanteen.com/63hofner.jpg)
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Those are hollow body toys!
Danelectro was a Sears catelogue wish book novelty not a true bass and the hofner, another toy that would have never been anything if Sir Paul did not play one.
Just kidding !- The short scale bass of stick & string do have a place, as does the EB-2 -
I should of stated SOLID BODY SHORT SCALE icon bass
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next they are gonna do a sideways flying V,though it will not fly.
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Sure it will - in circles!!!
I still wish they would do an Explorer with maho or korina body and maple top, long scale with TB Plus or even active pups - something fancy in the style of JE's Spyder Alembics.
But a souped up RD or Ripper Reissue wouldn't go amiss either.
Uwe
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Gibson missed their chance doing a Jack Bruce Reissue EB-1. That is a short scale solid body bass icon! They could use the same pickup as the SG RI, 460 Schaller bridge and working tuners and they would have a great sounding bass. And they could do a few carved maple top variations and double pickup versions for "GOWs"
Reid
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As I wrote at the Pit: An EB2 with the SG RI pick ups would be great. But it would be very expensive to, so no chance I suppose.
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What's the difference from the JC & EB-2 body?
The Jc is long scale & EB-2 short
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What's the difference from the JC & EB-2 body?
The Jc is long scale & EB-2 short
The JC body horns are a combo of the EB-2 and LP guitar. Just fix the horns and you got a EB-2. Got a feeling it isn't that easy.
I would even buy an Epi version of the EB-2 or another Rivoli if they'd upgrade that mudbucker somehow.
"Epi version of the EB-2"......glad I caught that before you all did. ;D ;D
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Gibson missed their chance doing a Jack Bruce Reissue EB-1. That is a short scale solid body bass icon! They could use the same pickup as the SG RI, 460 Schaller bridge and working tuners and they would have a great sounding bass. And they could do a few carved maple top variations and double pickup versions for "GOWs"
Reid
You never know, it could happen. Jack's involvement would be doubtful, though, since he's a Warwick endorser.
There was a short-lived Epi EB-1 reissue a few years back. It had a strange looking matte finish. gweimer owned a fretless one for awhile and IIRC did some extensive mods to it. The only ones I saw in stores were set up so badly they were hardly playable.
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I would even buy an Epi version of the EB-2 or another Rivoli if they'd upgrade that mudbucker somehow.
Maybe that Artec EBC4-CR pickup is an option? I remember Johnny Crab measured it at about 30 ohms!
(http://www.artecsound.com/pickups/images/30.jpg)
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I didn't realize anyone had bought the Artec yet, but the inner construction looked the same, at least from the photos I saw on eBay. With that, and if they use #42 AWG wire to get that 30K, chances are it will sound very much like the originals.
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Calling an EB1 a Jack Bruce bass is entirely perverse. The guy did two gigs out of 50 years with the thing, and his is a cob job. But if people can label a Guild bass a Sheryl Crow bass, God help us.
I wish they would do an EB3 reissue. Or any guitar reissue correctly. If they do a NR it will probably come with a Badass and a MM pup. A real EB2 would be nice, but if it came with a 3 point, I will pass.
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They SHOULD bring out a NR Bird but I'm not holding my breath.
If that happens I'm buying the first one I can get my hands on.
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If they do a NR it will probably come with a Badass and a MM pup.
I'd buy it anyway.
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Looking at the new model introductions of recent years (and assuming that what we see on various Gibson forums is somewhat representative), I guess it is fair to say that the SG RI was a success (who'd have thought given that it is short scale and the SG-Z did so badly), the Doublecut/Money did alright and the Studio TBs flopped (which surprised me: I thought there was a market out there with people who wanted something better than an Epi and something less expensive than a reg TB IV and that the NU Metal brigade would eagerly jump on an available 5 string in TB shape).
So what is the recipe behind the SG RI success?
- People want a traditional look from Gibson and something that stays in the heritage, but sound need not be archaic, some versatility is appreciated. Not everyone has ten or more basses to choose from for various sounds.
- They don't want to pay a king's ransom for it, but they are prepared to pay a Gibson premium.
- They like something that is clearly identifiable as a Gibson at first sight and harks back to some - however vague - historical image.
If you look at the above criteria, they pretty much apply to the similarly successful TB IV too. So the lesson learnt should be that Gibson is most successful with traditionally looking instruments in one of their iconic shapes which are gently modernized to meet current player's demands.
Uwe
My above posting proved more prophetic than I would have ever liked it to be: Go to "basses" on the offiicial Gibson homepage and what do you not see? :o Right, Money, TB Stdio IV and TB Studio V have all three been slashed from the model line ... :'(, they are down to classic TB IV and SG RI (Studio V is still pictured under "basses" by accident, but no longer listed).
And no mention of a GoW program for 2008 either. I thought as much ... the way they let the 2007 one fizzle out in week 48 without any announcement. All those SG Supremes, Moneys and Z-Birds they have flooded the market with via Ebay in recent weeks, you don't do that stuff if you want to attract buyers for a 2008 GoW program and its premium prices.
Of course, they might have slimmed down their product line to make room for new NAMM models, but I fear more that this is the start of another model hibernation period. ::) Well, we can all look forward to MAMM 2012 I guess ...
And my Studio IV and V are now rarities! ;D
Uwe
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Well, that could be bad news, or it could mean making room for a new model or two. We'll know by late this week.
I see that Music123 is showing a price drop on the Mon(k)ey, now $999. But it's not shown as a closeout...yet.
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I suspect if they are going to replicate or semi-replicate "vintage" basses, it will be the models that are valued more than a new bass will sell for. SG-RI survives as it's tone is so much more versatile than an original EB-3. Vintage TB prices justify building new semi-replicas. EB-2-RI is unlikely as the price of the vintage models is not high enough. An EB-1 RI is a possibility as the originals are selling for obscene money now. And 1970's model basses are not selling for enough money to justify reissues.
Reid
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The EB-2 is just a 335 Guitar body right?
That would not be too hard to do. Just slap a SG bass neck on it with a TB pup, like the SG Bass.
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What's the difference from the JC & EB-2 body?
And the JCS has no solid centerblock if I´m right.
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EB-2-RI is unlikely as the price of the vintage models is not high enough.
Yeah it is. I haven't checked recently (don't wanna torture myself, I can't be buying any more gear for the next little while) but before the recent sub-prime thing you couldn't get a clean EB2 for less than $1500. A Rivoli, yeah, but considering what John said (he's right - EB2 does use a 335 body - a current production model, though personally I'd like a fatter/deeper body, but that's just me) and the surprise success of the SG RI, along with the similar cult following of the original as the EB0/3s it would still be a good idea and not require any significant re-tooling or capital investment by Gibson
Another good idea would be to try to nail the ABG hybrid market using a EB2/650 inspired design (fatter body, less sustain block). Players want accoustics, but most suck in terms of accoustic tone and volume (construction and aesthetics too) and the cheaper peizo systems sound like ass - It would be nice to have an EB2ish bass to noodle on in my livingroom unplugged, but with SGRI pups so it can still be usefull in a loud full band setting. Also, it's impossible to find a descent shortie ABG - Gibson has been a niche bass maker, with varrying degrees of success, so this seems like a logical step to me given the current market.
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After that Epi EB-1 went for $800, who'd bet on anything in the Gibson(ish) vintage(ish) market.
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Has anyone looked at the current prices for new ES-335s List from $3k to $4k and sell for $2.3k to $3k. I wouldn't expect a EB-2-RI to sell for significantly less. A new and improved Epihone Rivoli RI may make more sense, but the original RI's weren't a huge sales success. Guild and Dearmond didn't have much luck, sales wise, with their offerings, but their RIs seem to be commanding bigger money, second hand, than the Rivoli RI.
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Found these flatering pictures from Fret-King...it's a Europa IV. It's in the $3000 range !
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/Fenderbird/WEIRDBIRD.jpg)
First ACT
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/Fenderbird/WEIRD.jpg)
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Wow! Gotta say I like the 'Bird clone......It could be a really expensive year!
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I like the RD, but I don't like the Bird. Is that really a First Act? The Bird looks like that British guitar brand, which name I can't remember. I believe it was a Trev Wilkinson thing too.
Let's Google it...
http://www.fret-king.com/
See the pic on the home page
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Your right looks the same - Tbied one is a Fret-King...it's a Europa IV. It's in the $3000 range
First Act RD link-
http://www.firstact.com/Products/LimitedEditionGuitars.aspx
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I like the First Act Degada too. nicely done!
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3K for a bass with allparts EB3 pups (e.g. like the ones on the Italia Mondial). That's insane.
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Yeah, I didn't find the price, but it is ridiculous for sure. I'd rather buy another vintage Gibson!
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OK, then how about this one?
http://www.liveitlive.co.uk/esprit4ta_spec.html
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It reminds me a bit of the Tulip bass that was featured in bass layer mag a few issues ago.
Something kind of cool about it, but not for me.
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3K for a bass with allparts EB3 pups (e.g. like the ones on the Italia Mondial). That's insane.
That and the "functional wrapover stop-bar tailpiece as a bridge" with no adjustability. That's really insane.
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Yeah, I meant to mention that, but forgot.
This second one is better (even P/J pups are a step above the allparts, despite not being my thing.... on second thought maybe better to get the allparts version - easier to stick real mud in there :P). The body shape is interesting in a Reverend does Gibson sort of way, but I find the faux ass-end wings to be lame. ... and though that bridge is an improvement, seriously, lets have some intonation - it's a reworked bar bridge for crissakes.
I find that I'm starting to become very old-manish about bridges. The new ones are adjustable every which way (and that's great) but look stupid (ruined the look of the TBird studio IMO - too square for one thing). Then there's the unintonateable ones. I also prefer the sound/feel of post-mounted bridges - I wish someone would just make a 460-like bridge that wasn't quite so tall. I have no issue with the 3 point actually (not a fan of the replacements for that tho) besides the saddles falling off without strings on... and I wish there was more distance between the saddles and the anchors, but those are minor things. Also, basses with a neck break angle, lets see some more of that.
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I can't believe the non-intonatable bridges. :o Madness takes control ... That is all very well with vintage instruments and recording techniques used back then, but not today when your CD player lets you hear each and every out of tune note clearly.
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did someone say BADASS ?
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NO! Nobody mentioned that thing here (yet - way to ruin the thread :P)
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did someone say BADASS ?
Did someone say overpriced, overhyped, and misrepresented? :P