The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Bass Amps & Effects => Topic started by: Happy Face on November 09, 2013, 07:18:50 PM
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I spent a fair bit of my meager spare time over the last couple of weeks tending to a Trace Elliot SMX 350 amp I bought. I used to own it and felt it was the best sounding amp I had ever used for a Rickenbacker bass and a more famous Ricky player than I said the same thing without any prompting from me when I lent it to him for a gig where it was "take it or leave it." I did not say a word, except to say I was lending him that amp because I needed my Orange for another gig. A life-long Ampig, He used it and loved it
Anyway, after fetching the amp back from a local pawn shop, I cleaned and blasted what I could and replaced a few parts.
But today I'm wondering if anyone outside of any of us OLD FFIGGIN GEEZERS even can tell the difference between me playing a Ricky 4001 through my hugely tubey Orange versus this lovely old Trace?
Or, as our lead guitarist once helpfully noted, "Why bother changing bases? It's all the same, it's just bass."
I just bring this up since we recently played at a gig where they asked us to keep our sound level down to a level where the patrons could carry on conversations. Thanks to our remarkable sound man we did .
But given that we face more and more jobs like that, why even bother having a nice amp or even a nice bass? Seriously, this really sucks.
Maybe I am glad that I am old.
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Well, it is often the sounds in our heads we chase that no one else cares about! As for volume, the older crowds we play for now days want less volume too. It's a sign of our age and theirs. :P
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After you get done kicking your lead guitarists ass, just ask the audience to please turn down their hearing aids ;). Problem solved ;D.
Rick
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Put the Rick down a moment, pick up the EB0, and teach the six-string geezer what the difference is... this note's for you... :vader:
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I find its actually with lower volume playing that bass tone really shines through and has a chance to make a difference. I think it's due to a number of factors but mainly 1) amps driven less hard (sure, sometimes that's part of the sound, but if it isn't, then a veil is lifted) 2) less compression is required on everything. This not only makes for greater dynamic range in all instruments (a boon especially for finger players) but also less mic bleed, especially with vocal mics (which in turn translates into clarity due to less phase issues). Even more so if lower volume allows you to keep monitor use to a minimum (nothing but vox and kick; keys if not amped etc).
And right-on CAR-54, besides messing with guitards (a necessary lifelong task) I find low volume playing is exactly the time to bust with the mud. Love using my EB3 on folky/acoustic things.
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How 'bout a nice old Ampeg Portaflex? Perfect for low-volume bass playing.
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Or, as our lead guitarist once helpfully noted, "Why bother changing bases? It's all the same, it's just bass."
Don't bother listening to him. It's not your fault his penis is the size of a small child's, probably to match his brain, both of which were fatally constricted years ago by his ego.
That said, MOST shows I see large and small are far too loud. It seems sound-idiots aren't happy until they induce earbleed and reduce even the most balanced band into a wall of brassy midrange wash. I saw a rockabilly band Saturday night who sounded awesome in sound check, BEFORE the sound guy brought up a single mic. After he finished 'working his magic,' they sounded like the bad indie hipster records they play through the PA (also too loud) without using a RIAA preamp. In a club that holds 100 people at max with a crowd of less than 50, there were mics on the guitar cab, bass cab and every single drum. Somewhere along the way, the record labels' volume wars were translated to their equally incompetent local peers. There are bands that NEED to be loud as part of their sound, but not every single one of them.
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Don't bother listening to him. It's not your fault his penis is the size of a small child's, probably to match his brain, both of which were fatally constricted years ago by his ego.
That said, MOST shows I see large and small are far too loud. It seems sound-idiots aren't happy until they induce earbleed and reduce even the most balanced band into a wall of brassy midrange wash. I saw a rockabilly band Saturday night who sounded awesome in sound check, BEFORE the sound guy brought up a single mic. After he finished 'working his magic,' they sounded like the bad indie hipster records they play through the PA (also too loud) without using a RIAA preamp. In a club that holds 100 people at max with a crowd of less than 50, there were mics on the guitar cab, bass cab and every single drum. Somewhere along the way, the record labels' volume wars were translated to their equally incompetent local peers. There are bands that NEED to be loud as part of their sound, but not every single one of them.
Amen! We work hard to keep our volume down in our little club. A simple PA system, no mics on amps or drums. Louder isn't always better, for sure.
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The current generation of sound "guys" don't seem to realize that past a certain point, loud is not better. I commented months ago about a Robert Randolph gig which was ruined by being so damn loud that it was close to painful. I needed earplugs and unfortunately left them at home. I would have enjoyed it much more about 20% less loud.
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My hearing is really taking a turn for the worse the last month or so. Constant white noise or ringing. I've got a doctors appointment coming up. Too many years of too loud.
Rick
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I've had severe tinnitus practically my whole life; got it from getting hit in the head when I was a kid. What works for me is to close my eyes and focus solely on the "ringing/noise" and mentally keep raising its pitch until it's outside the normal audio spectrum. Tinnitus is a neurological injury and if you can trick your brain into processing sound "around" it, you'll be amazed at the results. I pass every hearing test I take with perfect or near perfect every time. The only "downside" is that I am extremely SENSITIVE to loud upper midrange and extremely high frequencies. Anything above 22kHz at anything louder than barely audible physically hurts and I despise 4 kHz. I wear 32 dB reduction earplugs for just about anything that even has the possibility to be loud: crowds at sporting events, concerts, yardwork, chainsaw, and sex. ...cause I'm that good. 8)
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I actually do try to concentrate it away and have had some success, just not enough. My pain threshold is in the same range as yours. These 32db reduction earplugs you speak of. Is this the standard little stuff in your ear thing or are they something special? I keep earplugs and deadphones around for shooting at the range but have not had any success with them for playing music. I do a lot of vocals and I have a great deal of difficulty singing with them. I lose all feel for how I blend into the mix.
Rick
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I've had severe tinnitus practically my whole life; got it from getting hit in the head when I was a kid. What works for me is to close my eyes and focus solely on the "ringing/noise" and mentally keep raising its pitch until it's outside the normal audio spectrum. Tinnitus is a neurological injury and if you can trick your brain into processing sound "around" it, you'll be amazed at the results. I pass every hearing test I take with perfect or near perfect every time. The only "downside" is that I am extremely SENSITIVE to loud upper midrange and extremely high frequencies. Anything above 22kHz at anything louder than barely audible physically hurts and I despise 4 kHz. I wear 32 dB reduction earplugs for just about anything that even has the possibility to be loud: crowds at sporting events, concerts, yardwork, chainsaw, and sex. ...cause I'm that good. 8)
Damage to the cochlea's cilia by exposure to noise at levels above 90 dB SPL for extended periods of time is irreversible physical damage to the inner ear. If you lose hearing due to noise exposure, you have lost it permanently. You can alleviate the perception of tinnitus by doing as Carlo suggests. The brain can be manipulated, even if there is physical damage in the inner ear. A lot of folks use white noise or other natural sounds in the background to get to sleep at night. Folks with noise induced tinnitus will have significant hearing loss above 2000 Hz. Carlo's situation is unusual and interesting since he had no measurable hearing loss.
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I actually do try to concentrate it away and have had some success, just not enough. My pain threshold is in the same range as yours. These 32db reduction earplugs you speak of. Is this the standard little stuff in your ear thing or are they something special? I keep earplugs and deadphones around for shooting at the range but have not had any success with them for playing music. I do a lot of vocals and I have a great deal of difficulty singing with them. I lose all feel for how I blend into the mix.
Rick
You might want to try monitoring earplugs with the band. It's an expensive solution, but it gives you a lot of control. If you get the ear molds custom fitted and snug, you might be able to use the soundboard to back off of the music, up the singing and keep the overall volume below your pain threshold.
Otherwise, the -32 dB earplugs will work, but they will attenuate some frequencies more effectively than others depending on their construction, materials and fit. Typically, lows and mid. Manufacturer's specs might help here. In order to hear voices better, you need more volume in the high frequencies as consonants are high pitched and carry the majority of meaning in English language. It's a challenge for sure.
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We use in ear monitors...even with the cheap foam inserts, no sound gets in other than the monitor mix that you send yourself...
Roland V drums, and everything are pumped in through the IEM's.
It pretty much limits the damage.
Onstage the only sound is a monitor wedge we keep around for "guest" vocalists.
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Our band setup is more basic, with no IEMs...I personally had a hearing aid company fit me with custom-molded (Crimson & Grey) earplugs with 9dB filters. We don't play at very loud levels, and the 9bD cuts the volume but helps me hear the mix better. I found that 25 or even 15dB filters made it hard for me to hear how I sounded. But that's certainly dependent on the volume level.
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When I played in a much louder band with no monitors I used one of those Rolls Personal Monitors. Ran my mike though it so I could hear myself sing. A huge help. (One one model you can also run your guitar though it as well but I didn't.) I usually used only one earbud, leaving the other open to hear the rest of the band, with or without an earplug. Not perfect, but it's a lot cheaper than an in-ear system.
Current band has a nice PA. In theory I shd be getting bass along with vox through a monitor feed, but often as not there's just no time to get everyone's mix set up well. I guess if you had one of those fancy Presonus boards you could preset it all?
Anyway, back to my OP, more and more often your amp is nothing more than a barely audible stage monitor. Even though it all makes sense, I do miss the volume behnd me sometimes. Thankfully, we get a few outdoor gigs.
PS - I have to admire PBG's caution in the bedroom. Learning from experience... ;)
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PS - I have to admire PBG's caution in the bedroom. Learning from experience... ;)
You guys are my heroes! :o ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E81ICJywqwg
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Ha, good one Al! PBG is right, most lead guitarists have genitalia minimus complexes! :-\
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Thanks for the tips on the ear thing guys ;D. Very much appreciated.
Rick
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Thanks for the tips on the ear thing guys ;D. Very much appreciated.
Rick
Good luck with it. Tinnitus can be a bugger to manage.