The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Bass Amps & Effects => Topic started by: ack1961 on October 09, 2013, 01:35:51 PM
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I have a chance to get a MarkBass 210 Combo "CMD 210P" (350/500W) at less than half the retail price.
I've read some reviews and most seem really happy with it. The retail price of $1,150 seems scary high to me, but folks seem to love 'em. I understand that it's hard for some people to pay $1K+ for a combo and write that they hate it, so I'm pretty careful about not believing everything I read in reviews.
I just wanted to replace my heavier than all-get-out Peavey combo with something more portable (this 210P weighs 44 lbs.) for small bars and small gigs with FOH support.
Since I come here for answers to important questions (OK, and for the airplane and motorcycle pictures), I'd be interested to see if any LBO folks have any experience with MarkBass.
Thanks in advance,
Steve
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There are many who have more experience with Markbass amps than I (e.g. Blackbird), but I did use one the other week at a rented/equipped jam space in town and I thought it was really nice. Very versatile with a great range of tones available. Even a good growl/bite if you want it, or smooth and clean.
I've never used their speakers and I can't speak to their long term reliability.
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I use a MarkBass SA 450 as a slave with my Ampeg V4B.
Works great for me because I use the basic sound and color of the Ampeg and let the Markbass take care of the low end.
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I currently own a Markbass TTE-500 (the hybrid analogue power module model) which is a fantastic amp. And one of my current cabs is a great lightweight sealed 4x10 - the CL104.
Previously I've owned the CL152 cab, a Little Mark II, and a Little Mark 800.
Stacking Markbass amps up against other micro amps I've always found that Markbass are very honest, perhaps even conservative, about their power ratings - 500 Markbass watts is very loud .... at least as loud into the same cabs as the claimed 1000w from Ampeg's SVT7-Pro, for instance.
Importantly, the 500 watt Markbass models with the analogue power stage are much warmer sounding than the harsh 800 watt Class D power amp models in the range.
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Thanks for the quick replies. I got the CMD 102P.
It has pretty big balls on its own and when you add another 210 cab (they're 8 Ohm speakers) it is crazy loud for a little unit.
The extension cab (102HF) is expensive ($700), so it stayed there.
It's funny - you see this combo sitting there and it looks heavy, it sounds heavy and you brace yourself to lift it, and it weighs almost nothing.
My kid will be stoked, as will the bassist in their band - no more lugging around the Peavey boat anchors.
Thanks again for sharing your insight.
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Right now you can get excellent deals on the Genz-Benz Shuttle 9.2, which is an outstanding and powerful amp. I was checking online and they're available in the $595 range, which is an outstanding buy and about half of retail. Since Fender now owns Genz, there seems to be agreement that they're likely to close the line down.
Get it while you can. You won't be disappointed.
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I worked with a pickup band and one time there was a setup that had an 18" + a 2x10 and a head - played about six or seven numbers through the beast and I'd probably say it was the best sound I've ever had out of the PC ever...
Well out of my league though...
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I was very tempted to buy the 2x10 MarkBass a couple of years ago. I did a side by side comparison with a 2x10 GK combo and the MarkBass completely blew it away. I liked the MarkBass a lot despite the negative comments that I had heard. Then I found the Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 {3 3/4 lbs.}, and I have been living happily ever after. I'm running it through an Avatar 2x12 / tweeter cab with Eminence neos {very light weight}.
No knock on MarkBass though, I like 'em. The Genz just had a little more juice, a bit more flexibility and better definition,
Rick
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Wow - the Shuttle 9.2 for <$600. That's pretty amazing.
I've never played through one, but I've listened to 2 bassists play live through Shuttle/Epifani & Shuttle/Ashdown setups and they sounded incredible.
So much power from a 4 lb. unit.
At the time, I thought the Shuttle alone was $1k+, and I although I wanted one, it was going to have to wait.
$595 for the 9.2 has me re-thinking the possibilities.
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Wow - the Shuttle 9.2 for <$600. That's pretty amazing.
I've never played through one, but I've listened to 2 bassists play live through Shuttle/Epifani & Shuttle/Ashdown setups and they sounded incredible.
So much power from a 4 lb. unit.
At the time, I thought the Shuttle alone was $1k+, and I although I wanted one, it was going to have to wait.
$595 for the 9.2 has me re-thinking the possibilities.
$595 and free shipping.
http://reverb.com/item/22262-genz-benz-shuttle-9-2-2012?utm_medium=GPLA&utm_source=SEM&gclid=CMnfjdrwjLoCFdFDMgodqhEAFQ
From the discussion on TB, it appears that these may be disappearing fast. I'm tempted myself but my Shuttle 6.0 is so loud and nice that it would be a waste of money for me to make that change.
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Since Fender now owns Genz, there seems to be agreement that they're likely to close the line down.
Whaaat? I hate when that happens. Why buy it just to shut it down?
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Whaaat? I hate when that happens. Why buy it just to shut it down?
Beats the hell outa me. Sometimes Fender buys lines and periodically re-issues their brand, or holds it out for a while. i have no idea what their plan is.
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This is nothing new. Genz Benz has been owned by Fender for years. Kaman bought Genz about 10 years ago, and Fender bought Kaman's music division almost 6 years ago.
I see the Shuttle 9.0 is listed on the company's website as discontinued (http://www.genzbenz.com/?fa=detail&mid=2427&sid=352&cid=95), but the other shuttle models aren't.
Of course, FMIC can do what it wants, but this shutdown talk sounds like idle Talkbass rumors. Has there been any official announcement?
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I haven't seen anything official yet. Chromium sent me this link the other day:
http://www.mi-pro.co.uk/news/read/genz-benz-and-swr-to-face-fender-axe/018157
I've been a fan of theirs since the early 90's and would hate to see them go away. I have a GBE600 and 2x12XB that I enjoy quite a bit.
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I used an F1 for a few years. The DI was very low output but there was supposedly a mod you could have done. I didn't bother and got the Genz 9.0. Here at home I've got an SWR ST-220 and SM400S as well as a Peavey Alphabass head. I'm glad there is a great amp tech here in Austin that keeps them in great working order.
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I haven't seen anything official yet. Chromium sent me this link the other day:
http://www.mi-pro.co.uk/news/read/genz-benz-and-swr-to-face-fender-axe/018157
I've been a fan of theirs since the early 90's and would hate to see them go away. I have a GBE600 and 2x12XB that I enjoy quite a bit.
That is ominous. Just rumors so far, but when a spokesman says that no new models are being developed, that doesn't bode well.
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Of course, FMIC can do what it wants, but this shutdown talk sounds like idle Talkbass rumors. Has there been any official announcement?
I haven't heard anything, but one wonders when you start seeing heavy discounts. Regardless, based on my experience with G-B I'd go after a Shuttle series amp over just about any other micro-head. They do have a good reputation and Rahock and I can attest to their sound.
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Just spotted on Amazon: G-B Shuttle 9.2 at $549 with free shipping...
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0070YFECS/ref=dra_a_cs_lr_hn_it_P1400_1000?tag=dradisplay-20
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Check my thread in the Outpost Cafe. It seems the rumors are just the tip of the iceberg.
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Returning to the original topic, I am amazed how mellow everyone here is about MarkBass gear. Normally there are MB fan boys who rival Apple fan boys in their intensity. If anyone dares suggest that MB products are not the best gear ever made (and even cure disease) they go nuts! ;)
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Guess we're a sensible bunch of guys ;D
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Guess we're a sensible bunch of guys ;D
Generally speaking, I think that this is true and this is why I hang out here ;D. However, I have yet to hear a definitive answer on what the best bass is for metal ??? ???. As near perfect as we are , I guess we are still a work in progress :P ;)
Rick
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Generally speaking, I think that this is true and this is why I hang out here ;D. However, I have yet to hear a definitive answer on what the best bass is for metal ??? ???. As near perfect as we are , I guess we are still a work in progress :P ;)
Rick
And as long as that question is NOT debated here, it will remain a credit to this forum.
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Returning to the original topic, I am amazed how mellow everyone here is about MarkBass gear. Normally there are MB fan boys who rival Apple fan boys in their intensity. If anyone dares suggest that MB products are not the best gear ever made (and even cure disease) they go nuts! ;)
...which is exactly why I posed the question here and not on a different bass forum.
BTW, the amp is fine. I've played through amps I've liked better, and I've played through some I've liked worse.
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The only Markbass fanboy I've encountered was a salesman at Guitar Denter in San Antonio. Really obnoxious bastard who just couldn't believe I wanted to try a bass through their G-K display instead of Markbass and tried to argue with me when I told him the G-K sounded better to me. Then after I started playing, the jerkwad pulls a bass off the wall, plugs into a Markbass and starts slapping the shit out of it trying to drown me out. I put down the bass and walked out.
That store was very near a friend's house so I went in again a couple of weeks later to try the same bass through the G-K display. No salesman in the bass room. A minute later the same guy walks in and does the same thing. Walked out again, only this time I phoned the general manager after I got home. Never set foot in that store again.
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The only Markbass fanboy I've encountered was a salesman at Guitar Denter in San Antonio. Really obnoxious bastard who just couldn't believe I wanted to try a bass through their G-K display instead of Markbass and tried to argue with me when I told him the G-K sounded better to me. Then after I started playing, the jerkwad pulls a bass off the wall, plugs into a Markbass and starts slapping the shit out of it trying to drown me out. I put down the bass and walked out.
That store was very near a friend's house so I went in again a couple of weeks later to try the same bass through the G-K display. No salesman in the bass room. A minute later the same guy walks in and does the same thing. Walked out again, only this time I phoned the general manager after I got home. Never set foot in that store again.
That sucks, and those "tactics" are prevalent throughout their company. I'd imagine that their margins are pretty high on all the stuff the salesmen regularly try to force-feed us (Markbass, Ocean, etc.). I had similar experiences here in the Raleigh store and vowed to never go in there again.
I've also called the store manager once (which is something I don't do often) to bitch about their salesmen/guitar-heroes and the lack of customer skills they possess - due to a similar issue in the bass room. The fact that I have to go to a sales counter, wait on a line to get a cable to plug in a bass is ludicrous. Then, that guy hovers over you telling you everything he knows about every instrument or amp you touch - and then stands there awaiting your decision. These guys need to understand that to some folks, a $300 purchase is a huge deal, while other have the means to drop a couple grand without batting an eyelash.
Just recently, I went to the Raleigh GC (looking to try out a few amps) and there must have been 3 or 4 cables lying in the bass room. One guy came over to me, introduced himself and told me to find him if I need any assistance. Perfect. I like the fact that they seem to be trying to improve...
With a couple of kids into everything musically (guitars, vocals, bass, drums, recording/production, live shows, etc.) the big box stores are a necessary evil for me.
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The only Markbass fanboy I've encountered was a salesman at Guitar Denter in San Antonio. Really obnoxious bastard who just couldn't believe I wanted to try a bass through their G-K display instead of Markbass and tried to argue with me when I told him the G-K sounded better to me. Then after I started playing, the jerkwad pulls a bass off the wall, plugs into a Markbass and starts slapping the shit out of it trying to drown me out. I put down the bass and walked out.
That store was very near a friend's house so I went in again a couple of weeks later to try the same bass through the G-K display. No salesman in the bass room. A minute later the same guy walks in and does the same thing. Walked out again, only this time I phoned the general manager after I got home. Never set foot in that store again.
Dave,
I'm curious, what GK amp were you trying out? When I checked out their new lightweight class D/neo amps I was very underwhelmed. I'm a GK fan too :sad:.
Rick
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Not to derail the thread (what, here?), but the way the pay is structured in those stores, you aren't going to get the cream of the crop. It's almost criminal - for real. I recently spoke to a local manager at one of GC's competitors, (with a similar structure) and was astounded at how messed up it is. He basically told me that a job as a sales guy there is okay if all you're after is a discount on gear, but if you have bills or are supporting a family - it's pretty much worthless. Anybody that is any good at all is shepherded into management, where they are pretty much ridden into the ground. He also told me that if anything, GC's system was more aggressive, which might account for part of the silliness that Dave experienced (although I will confess to being amused by the story, and would love to have been a fly on the wall at the time). Having said all that, my local GCs are generally hands off - the will ask once and then disappear. I also tend to use the same sales guy (who I have been buying from for years) when I'm looking for something, so I will just say "Thanks, Ed's got me already". When that fails, I will ask them questions that they don't know the answers to, but I already do. "What kind of wood are they using on the Squier basses these days?" ??? :popcorn:
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"When that fails, I will ask them questions that they don't know the answers to, but I already do. "What kind of wood are they using on the Squier basses these days?"
Love that!
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Dave,
I'm curious, what GK amp were you trying out? When I checked out their new lightweight class D/neo amps I was very underwhelmed. I'm a GK fan too :sad:.
Rick
Rick, IIRC it was a 700RB head. This was some years ago, whenever it was that Fender reissued the Mustang bass -- that's what I was trying to play. Maybe 2006? Before the Neo series, which I haven't tried.
GC is what it is. You'll find some knowledgeable people there, and some fools. I can deal with either since it's not a place I'd ever go to seek advice. This guy really rubbed me the wrong way, though. And to top it off, I had to listen to his pointless atonal slapping.
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when you go to gc ask the sales guy to take the amp/bass into the acoustic guitar room . its very quiet in there and hardly any customers. then tell the guy thanks and you'll call if you need help.
it seems to work.
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Rick, IIRC it was a 700RB head. This was some years ago, whenever it was that Fender reissued the Mustang bass -- that's what I was trying to play. Maybe 2006? Before the Neo series, which I haven't tried.
GC is what it is. You'll find some knowledgeable people there, and some fools. I can deal with either since it's not a place I'd ever go to seek advice. This guy really rubbed me the wrong way, though. And to top it off, I had to listen to his pointless atonal slapping.
Thanks, that explains it ;D. I've had my share of experiences at GC too. It is a damn shame that almost every mom and pop music store in the Detroit area has either been run out or forced to make a living renting and selling instruments to the local high school marching bands. That's the way of the world I guess :sad: ??? :-\,
Rick
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We're fortunate here with a number of independent stores that are doing well and have been doing well for years despite GC.
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Not to derail the thread (what, here?), but the way the pay is structured in those stores, you aren't going to get the cream of the crop. It's almost criminal - for real. I recently spoke to a local manager at one of GC's competitors, (with a similar structure) and was astounded at how messed up it is. He basically told me that a job as a sales guy there is okay if all you're after is a discount on gear, but if you have bills or are supporting a family - it's pretty much worthless. Anybody that is any good at all is shepherded into management, where they are pretty much ridden into the ground. He also told me that if anything, GC's system was more aggressive,
Firsthand, you're only scratching the surface, and contrary to popular misinformation, this practice did not begin with Bain Capital. GC is a model example of dishonest capitalist profiteering gone unchecked and has been so for many years.
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Firsthand, you're only scratching the surface, and contrary to popular misinformation, this practice did not begin with Bain Capital. GC is a model example of dishonest capitalist profiteering gone unchecked and has been so for many years.
PBG has a point. I recall buying a piece of sudio gear at the SF Guitar Center back in 1993 or so. Sold as new. When I got it home, I found that the manual was all marked up. I went back to the store to complain and the manager just shrugged and they lost a customer for good.
I complained to the manufacturer and they .... sent me a T-shirt.
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Firsthand, you're only scratching the surface, and contrary to popular misinformation, this practice did not begin with Bain Capital. GC is a model example of dishonest capitalist profiteering gone unchecked and has been so for many years.
Yeah, I'm aware of that - one of the myriad of reasons why I never got into MI sales. I have friends and relatives in the business who would tell me that I would be a valuable commodity at a one of these places, but would also have to be prepared to endure some pretty dysfunctional conditions. Likewise with automotive sales. No thanks.
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Yeah, I'm aware of that - one of the myriad of reasons why I never got into MI sales. I have friends and relatives in the business who would tell me that I would be a valuable commodity at a one of these places, but would also have to be prepared to endure some pretty dysfunctional conditions. Likewise with automotive sales. No thanks.
A sales job really depends on the company you're working for. I sold cars for a family dealership that had been around for years, and it was a really good place to work. We still have some great family car dealerships in Fort Collins, and many of their sales people have been there 10+ years. Unfortunately this is the exception for car sales rather than the norm.
I would not be interested in any "sales factory" job...got way too close to that in the past. Constant pressure and aggravation with little reward.
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Any place that sells stuff is going to deal with returns, and most will sell returns as new. What else can they do? Some sell as seconds or B stock. It was the customer that marked up the manual and returned the equipment, not the store or it's employees. They might not have even opened the box when it was returned.
BTW. I don't use MarkBass at all.
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Any place that sells stuff is going to deal with returns, and most will sell returns as new. What else can they do? Some sell as seconds or B stock. It was the customer that marked up the manual and returned the equipment, not the store or it's employees. They might not have even opened the box when it was returned.
Yeah, returns are tricky. I was slack-jawed with amazement when I returned a dvd player to a Best Buy and they just chucked it into a a box full of other returns. They could have cared less that I carefully included remotes, cable and manuals. I asked the lady about it and she told me that they have outsourced the handling of returns. I'd wager that the "restocking fee" you often see mentioned is simply an effort to offset some of the loss they take when they sell the stuff to the returns specialist.
In my case GC should have offered to swap me a new unit since that was what I paid for. They ending up losing far more than they saved since I was just starting to assemble a studio. That's called penny-wise and pound foolish!
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I've had the SA 450 for 5-6 years now, really looked at this brand at first because I needed lightweight gear, but it sounded great and I was sold. It's getting real test now. When I bought it, I also bought a Bergantino 112 cab, but that limited me to 300W (which was MORE than enough when I originally bought it). It's now paired up with the Markbass 104HF so I get more air and the 500W at 4OHM (wasn't anything interesting around in a second 8ohm cab).
I think it sounds great, very 'pure' sounding for lack of a better word...I keep it mostly flat, but use the two filters - VLE and VPF for some coloring, but mostly the sansAmp bass driver does that work.
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There's more than one way to deal with refunds, but selling a return as a brand new item is not the right way. IIRC one of the main reasons Rickenbacker pulled out out of GC was because they were selling returns as new.
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There's more than one way to deal with refunds, but selling a return as a brand new item is not the right way. IIRC one of the main reasons Rickenbacker pulled out out of GC was because they were selling returns as new.
Several years back, I got a Historic '57 LP Jr from GC. I worked a trade on it with a couple of pieces I wasn't attached to. They told me that the Jr was new, but it had acquired some in-stock cosmetic damage. (two scratches / gouges on the face of the guitar) It was priced at roughly half of what an in-the-box unit would be. (At the time I purchased it, GC was not a Gibson retailer - due to some kind of dispute involving Sam Ash.) When I contacted Gibson about getting the "case candy" and warranty info, they confirmed that the guitar had not previously been sold, but were very interested in the sell price and where I had purchased it (via the SN). I found out later that there was a Gibson "rep" who was selling his samples and demos to stores that didn't carry Gibson.
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I just scored a used Classic 300 at a bargain price from someone who got it new 6 years ago as part of an endorsement deal. My Traynor YBA-200 is in the shop at the moment (a power tube failed and took out some resistors), so it was good timing to try out the Markbass. I was never going to fork out to buy one of these when they were new (at local store pricing of around US$4000), but US$800 is palatable.
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/mdeayton/Bass%20gear/_57_zps51cfc56d.jpg)
First mod - make it less yellow ...
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/mdeayton/Bass%20gear/IMG_20141227_175429_zps4997a749.jpg)
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Whaaat? I hate when that happens. Why buy it just to shut it down?
When they bought the company, they bought GB's patents, not just the name. Genz Benz fades out, Fender announces "Rumble Reinvented". No coincidence.
Lets hope they keep their hands off MarkBass
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Nice score Mark - I never knew that Markbass ever made any tube gear. Seems so antithetical to their whole design philosophy. Report on it plz, when you have a chance.
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Nice score Mark - I never knew that Markbass ever made any tube gear. Seems so antithetical to their whole design philosophy. Report on it plz, when you have a chance.
The Classic 300 was an all tube model - power section is 6 x KT88 tubes. It is auto biasing - it takes around a minute or so for the tubes to be biased each time the amp is powered up. There are some cool toys on board as well - the LCD screen tells you if you don't have a suitable load connected to the speaker outputs; if a tube blows, it locks out that pair and reports on the LCD screen which tube is faulty; there is a switch on the panel to change the tube bias from "long life" to "hi fi" (hi fi will run them hotter and reduce tube life). The amp runs down to 2 ohms.
I'll get a chance to play with it a bit more on the weekend.
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I have played a Markbass Classic 300, but it was through their 6x10. It didn't impress meat all, but that could have been the cabs.
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I have played a Markbass Classic 300, but it was through their 6x10. It didn't impress meat all, but that could have been the cabs.
Fortunately I've got a few cab options to put it through its paces - my sealed Markbass CL104 (4x10 - a fabulous old school cab), Fender Neo 610, Ampeg SVT212AV, Fliptops B15E. When I picked up the amp I had a minute or two to hear it through an SVT810.
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When they bought the company, they bought GB's patents, not just the name. Genz Benz fades out, Fender announces "Rumble Reinvented". No coincidence.
Lets hope they keep their hands off MarkBass
There's no reason to think Fender would be interested in buying Markbass.
Fender didn't exactly buy GB. They bought Kaman's music division, which had bought GB some years earlier, and GB was in financial trouble back then. Kaman's music division had been losing money for years and the parent company no longer had interest in music anyway. I'm sure FMIC never intended to subsidize all the brands it bought. Nothing wrong with using the technology it acquired.
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It's even got your name on it...! :mrgreen:
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Well, I've had the opportunity over the past couple of weeks to get to know my Classic 300, so can now report on my impressions. Firstly, the bells and whistles are all really cool - when you switch the amp on, the display says "warming tubes" and a bar moves across the LCD screen while this is happening, a bit like a progress bar when you are installing software on a computer. After that, the screen shows "biasing" for a little bit longer and then the amp switches to standby ready to rock. That process takes around 60 seconds all up. There is a 3 way switch on back panel that gets you into two diagnostic modes where the LCD screen displays individual bias readings for each power tube in real time, as well as plate voltages (I think) for each tube in the preamp/EQ section.
Once taken off standby the amp is whisper quiet, and the fan is barely audible in a quiet room.
There is quite a large range of preamp gain available, but it's only in the upper reaches of gain that the signal gets overdriven easily - somewhere from around 1 o'clock onwards. The overdrive is not SVT grit style or creamy at all, it's more of a heavy and thick harmonic overdrive - it certainly cuts through in a big way. In the rehearsal studio playing assorted classic rock covers I was keen to see how loud this head could get (teamed with the sealed Markbass CL104 quaddie) - with the gain at noon and the master at noon the volume was unbearably loud, even with earplugs, so I can confirm that the Classic 300 has headroom to burn. This one is running Sovtek power tubes with quite a few hours on them according to the previous owner, so when it comes time to replace the tubes I'll probably try some JJs or Mullards.
One of the front panel controls switches the biasing from "long life" to "hifi" - ie. the tubes will run hotter in hifi mode. The hifi mode is slightly brighter, with a tad more gain, but in a live gig situation with a rock band, the long life mode sounds good enough to me. The hifi mode would probably be useful if recording or in a "less rock" gig situation.
Things I don't like - hard to read the controls in bad lighting ... but this will improve as I become more familiar with the control layout. The shape of the head is a little unusual - it is higher and deeper than most tube heads, so it's looks "different".
Otherwise, at the price I paid for this used (USD$800) it is a keeper. I can't say that I would ever pay the original list price for a new one though, that price is over the top.
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Pretty cool bells and whistles. Nice to have even though you don't need them.
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Here's my "Mask"bass rig at Friday night's gig. Yellow be gone!
(http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a57/mdeayton/Gig%20photos%202015/IMG_20150130_210158_zpspmass5g9.jpg)