The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Outpost Cafe => Topic started by: 4stringer77 on April 16, 2013, 09:53:57 AM
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Tragic events at the Boston marathon yesterday. Praying no one here was directly effected. Hope everyone will focus on loving each other so we can make this world a better place.
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It's beyond comprehension. Prayers for all involved yesterday and praise for those who ran in to help.
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Another reminder that there are sick people in the world, and none of us can hide from them.
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Terrible circumstances and condolences to the Bostonians...
We have the London marathon this coming Sunday and they are "burying" Thatcher tomorrow - UK security is having kittens...
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I'm too angry to even begin to say what I'm really feeling.
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It's an outrage and whoever did it meant specifically to take away what runners need: their legs.
My condolences to the city of Boston, the victims and their family and friends.
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Once again, the media was irresponsible, broadcasting and publishing things that turned out to be baseless. There's still speculation going on that may turn out to be completely wrong.
No matter how angry you are, keep in mind that we don't have any answers. Don't rush to judgment.
Worth reading (from a blog I read regularly): Richard Jewell Cannot Accept Our Apology (http://www.popehat.com/2013/04/16/richard-jewell-cannot-accept-our-apology/)
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Once again, the media was irresponsible, broadcasting and publishing things that turned out to be baseless. There's still speculation going on that may turn out to be completely wrong.
No matter how angry you are, keep in mind that we don't have any answers. Don't rush to judgment.
Worth reading (from a blog I read regularly): Richard Jewell Cannot Accept Our Apology (http://www.popehat.com/2013/04/16/richard-jewell-cannot-accept-our-apology/)
I remember when this was live on TV. They had Richard Jewell. Obviously, they thought he was probably guilty. I took a look at him, turned to the person next to me, and I'll never forget my words and my certainty. I said--"That guy is innocent."
I haven't kept up too much with what the media is saying now about Boston, unless they're wanting people to think it's probably homegrown. I don't have enough info to make any judgment at all.
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The good news is that there are security cameras all over that area, and many other people were shooting video. I'm pretty confident that all that footage will turn up something they can follow up.
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The good news is that there are security cameras all over that area, and many other people were shooting video. I'm pretty confident that all that footage will turn up something they can follow up.
Especially since cops apparently were making periodic sweeps through the area throughout the race. An open event like this is much more difficult to police since people come and go all the time. A large stadium event, such as a football or baseball game, is probably much easier to keep safe.
I hope something turns up soon.
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Without wishing to sound caustic: It could have been a lot worse (with all respect for the personal tragedies of the victims). Planting bombs in open spaces to maximum effect is still an unsure business for whoever wants to do it.
I'd be very much surprised if this had an Islamist terrorism background. Nothing fits - there is no specific political symbolism (from an Islamist terrorist viewpoint) attached to Boston or marathons (they are not "arch-American" like an NFL Kick-Off would be), the bombs seem (luckily) makeshift. Al Quaeda is "better" than that, they have been doing it for too long. I also have a hunch that if a schooled terrorist organisation was behind this we'd be mourning a lot more casualities.
Some freak(s).
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If something turns up on someone's cell phone footage or security footage, let's just hope they get the right person.
It could be anyone or any group with some kind of grudge (April 15 - tax protest?), or even another loner wanting to top the last tragedy and watch people suffer. I'm thinking the same as Uwe, an organized Islamist group with a grudge would probably be claiming responsibility.
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Pressure cooker bombs are commonly used in Afghanistan, Pakistan, India and Nepal. It's easier to build bombs of that sort in the US rather than high explosive ones typically used by Al Quaeda. That's mainly due to the difficulty obtaining high explosives in the US, let alone importing them. The 2010 failed Times Square bomb was a pressure cooker.
I have no idea who did Boston. I also don't underestimate Al Queda or anyone else by thinking they won't change tactics if necessary, including staying mum until they perceive it timely to reveal themselves.
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Time will tell. The rest is just speculation. I'm waiting for an arrest.........
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Political terror lives from the fact that it claims its deeds to great outside effect. Weird that no one has done so here. Having killed three people - one of them a child - in a bombing attack is hardly headline news in Afghanistan, Iraq or wherever Al Qaeda houses these days. Won't give you access to a lot of virgins either is my guess.
You could be forgiven to cynically think that no one has claimed this as their deed yet because the death toll was less than impressive given prior expectations.
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You could be forgiven to cynically think that no one has claimed this as their deed yet because the death toll was less than impressive given prior expectations.
or, because they want to instill fear via the uncertainty of further bombs
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I also hope not to appear cynical. But based on what I've read about this kind of thing, the methods, objectives, etc., this might just be a test run. It's strictly my impression and it's all based on sheer speculation, but I do think it was probably just practice.
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I don't think it was a practice run. The number of people in the area who were not killed and unexploded bombs found attests to the lack of sophistication of the attacker(s). High explosive shaped charges are easy enough to manufacture homebrew. IED's overseas are made from artillery shells because there are so many of them there already. I expect that this attack was probably motivated by a perception of the victims/area as having a particular political leaning.
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by that you mean carl rove did it. :rolleyes: :sad:
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by that you mean carl rove did it. :rolleyes: :sad:
No. It's not Rove's style to do his own dirty work. He uses poor people to do his killing.
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I thought it was the Saudi student being quietly deported to protect his rich family?
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...and unexploded bombs found ...
I think they've backed away from the earlier claims/rumors of unexploded bombs being discovered; at least as of yesterday.
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I haven't heard anything other than that the police have a suspect based on surveillence camera stills, but the only development that would surprise me would be that it was the IRA. I understand how my first comment could have been taken in a partisan context (and I definitely replied to its subsequent reply that way), but I meant my original post in the broader sense that it could have been an act of terror aimed at a political ideology in general, IOW, the possibility of domestic terrorists equally motivated at striking out against the "Northeast big government liberals" as jihadists trying to inflict mass casualties at an international event in the 'land of corruption.' I also have no doubts that Saudi oil money could cover nearly ANY sin on American soil. The last time Saudis attacked the US, the US attacked Iraq.
I'm happy to see that the public and government has refrained from accusatory bloodlust for the most part. Not so many years ago, the flags would have come out and the American people would be given the name of some remote Middle Eastern country and rallied to level it and sny who questioned why would have been labeled unpatriotic traitors. Eleven years of war has hopefully dulled that reflex. I don't want my tax dollars killing another few hundred thousand brown people who had nothing to do with this.
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I think they've backed away from the earlier claims/rumors of unexploded bombs being discovered; at least as of yesterday.
Ahh... the ever responsible news media! They need to adopt the motto of the Marines: First to go. Last to know.
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"... the only development that would surprise me would be that it was the IRA ..."
:rimshot: :rimshot: :rimshot: :rimshot: :rimshot: :rimshot: :rimshot: :rimshot: :rimshot:
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Truth is, we don't know jack about this.
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Let's keep any more political comments out of this thread. Thanks.
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Let's keep any more political comments out of this thread. Thanks.
Good idea. This is one of the few places I can go to free of the political polarization crap that pervades American society. I look at it as Internet oasis. Oasis the band, that's another story I guess. I can remember one music forum I used to go to long ago. There was a guitarist who was such a fanatical Oasis fan that if anyone ever said anything negative about them, he would go berserk. Once he made quite a scene and even the moderator seemed embarrassed. Fun times.
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I also hope not to appear cynical. But based on what I've read about this kind of thing, the methods, objectives, etc., this might just be a test run. It's strictly my impression and it's all based on sheer speculation, but I do think it was probably just practice.
If this is true they probably learned a lot. Looking at the small number dead and the large number of amputees it would appear the bombs had a wide horizontal dispersion but a narrow vertical dispersion. If the bombs had been raised above the ground a few feet there would have been many more deaths. Speculation on my part.
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Speaking of explosions, this is what I woke up to this morning. My front door is about 100 yards behind the flames. I heard the truck explode as I got ready to leave for work.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/51581577/ns/local_news-columbus_oh/ (http://www.nbcnews.com/id/51581577/ns/local_news-columbus_oh/)
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Good idea. This is one of the few places I can go to free of the political polarization crap that pervades American society. I look at it as Internet oasis. Oasis the band, that's another story I guess. I can remember one music forum I used to go to long ago. There was a guitarist who was such a fanatical Oasis fan that if anyone ever said anything negative about them, he would go berserk. Once he made quite a scene and even the moderator seemed embarrassed. Fun times.
Oasis aren't as singular as their zealots take them to be nor as horrendously bad as their naysayers would like to have it. Nice bass playing here by Noel. On a Ric 4005 owned by Paul Weller.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_uWYnrDsa0
I generally do prefer their older brother Rory,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKsf_4vqp0k
but I kinda miss them, they were at least never boring with their sibling rivalry.
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There was a lot of turbulence going on. They were just some guys making some music and there is a certain innocence to that. That's especially so if contrasted to what this thread is really about. In regard to Oasis, although I was never a fan, I did get tired of people saying they were too influenced by the Beatles. I hardly think that is a crime.
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but I kinda miss them, they were at least never boring with their sibling rivalry.
Pfffffttttt! Ray and Dave Davies did it better and longer :P At least until Dave had a stroke - may, just maybe, Ray has let up on Dave.
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I haven't heard anything other than that the police have a suspect based on surveillence camera stills...
One down, one to go.
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I was watching CNN last night, and they were talking to the man who shot the picture that may be the suspect. It's the one of the guy in the white hat that appears to be calmly walking away from the site of the explosion. It was the only picture this guy shot.
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Let's keep any more political comments out of this thread. Thanks.
Right on.
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Was reading this this morning. Scary and interesting to say the least.
http://www.naturalnews.com/039981_Boston_marathon_suspects_media_blackout.html
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Occam's Razor...
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Couple of interesting things:
I saw interviews with family members on various news outlets.
Their uncle, who lives in MD, seems to have no problem believing that they were responsible. Also seems hella pissed.
Their aunt, up in Canada, "was a lawyer, back home" (uh oh) and wants evidence, because she feels the pictures were staged.
The father, interviewed somewhere in Russia (where he moved back to after receiving asylum here - said he felt "nostalgic), feels they were framed. One phrase - "there are cops like that". Apparently, the interview was cut short because Russian security forces showed up to take him away for questioning.
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Anyone who thinks the pictures were staged needs to be in a mental asylum, permanently.
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Was reading this this morning. Scary and interesting to say the least.
http://www.naturalnews.com/039981_Boston_marathon_suspects_media_blackout.html
That's self-fulfilling prophecy. EVERY one of those photographs is post-explosion investigation. That the government had employed a quick-response terror team using VERY visible stylized logos there quickly shouldn't shock anyone, nor should the fact that they don't want photos of them publicized be surprising either. Just to be brutally cold in terms of numbers, an escalating false flag operation would need to have larger numbers of casualities compared to Sandy Hook and a more direct link to firearms if it were truly designed to inflame anti-gun sentiment. I don't believe for a second that we are being given the full story, both due to government intervention and the incomptenence of the media, but trying to say this is just a gun grab, as Infowars has, is either delusion or vile opportunism.
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That's self-fulfilling prophecy. EVERY one of those photographs is post-explosion investigation. That the government had employed a quick-response terror team using VERY visible stylized logos there quickly shouldn't shock anyone, nor should the fact that they don't want photos of them publicized be surprising either. Just to be brutally cold in terms of numbers, an escalating false flag operation would need to have larger numbers of casualities compared to Sandy Hook and a more direct link to firearms if it were truly designed to inflame anti-gun sentiment. I don't believe for a second that we are being given the full story, both due to government intervention and the incomptenence of the media, but trying to say this is just a gun grab, as Infowars has, is either delusion or vile opportunism.
We're never given the full story on anything. For example, if people had the full story on how the American educational system truly functions, there would be so many irate people, it would collapse within a week. Hardly anything is as it seems anymore. It's all about perception now, not reality.
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It's all about perception now, not reality.
That's the way it's always been. It's only been in recent years that position-point designed "news" has supplanted news designed simply to inform and it disgusts me that so many people willingly buy into the "product." Ethical journalism is probably the final casualty of 60's idealism.
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We're never given the full story on anything. For example, if people had the full story on how the American educational system truly functions, there would be so many irate people, it would collapse within a week. Hardly anything is as it seems anymore. It's all about perception now, not reality.
Man did you ever hit the nail on the head regarding our pathetic education system. Right on.
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That's the way it's always been. It's only been in recent years that position-point designed "news" has supplanted news designed simply to inform and it disgusts me that so many people willingly buy into the "product." Ethical journalism is probably the final casualty of 60's idealism.
Amen, journalism and the fourth estate are dead.
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I will omit comments on a couple of my own "hot button items above...
Just to say that it was REALLY interesting to drive home tonight (I hosted a conference in Denver) and listen to NPR covering the Boston situation from the time they identified the suspect hiding in a stored boat to the time he surrendered. There was a neighbor (Keith something...) who spoke with the news host three times. Keith did a fantastic job describing the scene and his observations, without getting into hyperbole. He did as fine a job of reporting as any professional I've heard. Love to meet the guy and complement him on his presence of mind and clear communication.
Anyhow, it was quite a drive to be able to listen while this was unfolding.
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Kudos to the Boston PD for persevering in the pursuit and apprehension of the remaining Tsarnaev brother.
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Fantastic police work!
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Kudos to that eagle-eyed homeowner who went outside for a smoke and spotted the ripped tarp on his boat.
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Kudos to that eagle-eyed homeowner who went outside for a smoke and spotted the ripped tarp on his boat.
For sure. I think he's lucky there wasn't a confrontation with the bomber. That could have ended badly for him as well.
Now we'll see how things unfold.
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While watching this unfold on network TV last night my daughter was monitoring the police scanner and reddit on her phone, she was way ahead of the network news. It was almost painful watching Diane Sawyer trying to keep the ball rolling on live TV. Congratulations to all involved. We can as a nation sleep a little better. Happy Gilmore had a great tweet "Boston is probably the only major city that if you f**k with them, they will shut down the whole city.....stop everything....and find you."
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Don't f**k with Boston.
That's a good one.
:mrgreen:
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Man did you ever hit the nail on the head regarding our pathetic education system. Right on.
I wish I were wrong. But I've seen too many things with my own eyes, up close and personal.
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I'll just dip my toe in this....
I think our education system works very well doing what it is designed to do - provided it's operating in an area with a decent social structure, families that care about education, lack of rampant crime and gangs.
It doesn't work as well where kids come from families that don't value education, where crime is rampant and where society is unstable.
I think that the failures of our education system are based more in the social setting around them than they are in the system or the curriculum, and I don't think that schools can fix what's wrong outside the school.
And as Forrest Gump said, "that's all I have to say about that" since I don't want to start a multi-page thread on the topic.
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I'll just dip my toe in this....
I think our education system works very well doing what it is designed to do - provided it's operating in an area with a decent social structure, families that care about education, lack of rampant crime and gangs.
It doesn't work as well where kids come from families that don't value education, where crime is rampant and where society is unstable.
I think that the failures of our education system are based more in the social setting around them than they are in the system or the curriculum, and I don't think that schools can fix what's wrong outside the school.
And as Forrest Gump said, "that's all I have to say about that" since I don't want to start a multi-page thread on the topic.
Without going into too many specifics, I do seem to be able to help my friends recognize their true talents. Because of that I've got one close friend who is currently working on her second degree and liking the idea of being involved in her true calling. I may be doing the same thing with a second friend. So, education itself can be wonderful sometimes. However, I'm bothered by a lot of things, too, but also don't want a discussion on problems in education here.
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Fair enough, Westen - thanks. And I hope you are able to help your friend.
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Fair enough, Westen - thanks. And I hope you are able to help your friend.
Thanks
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our education 'system' blows, being number 14 worldwide according to some studies. with all the resources available here, both monetary and otherwise this is a disgrace. truth is much of school age america is a fat, lazy trash culture with more interest in new cell phones than new books. societal disparities alone can't be blamed for this mess. i have no answers unforunately, just an opinion like everyone else. :sad:
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our education 'system' blows, being number 14 worldwide according to some studies. with all the resources available here, both monetary and otherwise this is a disgrace. truth is much of school age america is a fat, lazy trash culture with more interest in new cell phones than new books. societal disparities alone can't be blamed for this mess. i have no answers unforunately, just an opinion like everyone else. :sad:
You're correct, of course, but like most big problems, this one has its roots in a myriad of little problems that have been allowed to fester over the years. It's like the car where nobody bothered to figure out that the musty smell was caused by water leaking into the passenger compartment (just hang another air freshener), and settling under the carpet. Suddenly it's like "Hey, the floorboards are rotted out! How did that happen?"
The thing about America is that there are plenty of stories of those who have risen above adversities of all kinds, whether they be physical, social, financial or whatever. It all comes down to the individual, and as the parent of two teenage boys, it is a constant struggle to get the message across that we aren't really entitled to anything. I work with a younger (20s) guy who told me that his role model was Tony Montana (Scarface) because he came from nothing to be rich and powerful. I told him he might want to rethink that one.
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Some interesting and relevant comments by all. I especially agree with Nofi's comments. However, I have unintentionally derailed this thread with my comments on education. I understand that getting off the topic is usually okay. But in this case I think it would be better to reserve discussion to Boston.
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Anyone else see the CBS Sunday Morning segments on Boston? They devoted the first 10 minutes to it, and as usual for them, extremely well done and added detail and context. That is one great news/feature program.
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Anyone else see the CBS Sunday Morning segments on Boston? They devoted the first 10 minutes to it, and as usual for them, extremely well done and added detail and context. That is one great news/feature program.
I missed it. I used to watch it much more frequently years ago. From time to time, Charles Kuralt had some interesting features on it. After his death, I still would watch it a little, but missed his unique presentations.
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I loved the Kuralt programs, but I have to say that Charles Osgood has become a wonderful host. I stopped watching for a few years, but we usually spend SUnday AM in the kitchen with newspapers and a leisurely breakfast. When I got a TV in the kitchen we picked it up again.
BTW - if you want a TV in a place where you can't run cables to it, try these X10 units (blatant commercial content, but I have used these and they actually work well...no personal interest)
http://www.x10.com/promotions/vk82a_hps_wireless_hdtv.html#
(http://graphics.x10.com/images_promotions/WIRELESS_HDTV_main.gif)
They work amazingly well! The only downside is that microwave ovens make them a bit nuts, but you can deal with that. I've been very surprised that such inexpensive devices work well. I have one feeding a TV in the kitchen from a satellite receiver in the loving room, and another feeding a TV in the garage from a receiver in our master bedroom.
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That looks really interesting to me.
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I don't know that I'd depend on them to send HD from room to another, but we do have an HD receiver sending a widescreen feed to a 22" TV in the kitchen, and the image is very nice. Of course, any warts don't show as much on a small screen.
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The reviews on Amazon sure are poor.
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All concepts of wirless are as valid as the idea of sweating out excrement and doing it without intestines. A cable is a cable. If you want quality.
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(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1e/Vladimir_Putin_as_a_child.jpg/170px-Vladimir_Putin_as_a_child.jpg)
"Dear West, we warned you about those Chechen terrorists, but you would not listen. Just like you wouldn't listen in Afghanistan."
I'm waiting for someone to bring up the theory that this was all staged by the KGB (i.e. its successor organisation) to discredit the Chechen cause for independence. It can't be long ...
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It's interesting the things that can unintentionally bring the U.S. and Russia together. There was the alliance with Stalin based on a common enemy. There was the post-Cold War period of the 90s. Now there could be other things to bring the two countries together, once again based on common enemies. Whether or not the things happening recently will make much impact, of course, is debatable. In all honesty, I haven't read up too much on recent U.S-Russian relations. I used to keep up with that kind of stuff quite a lot.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
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All concepts of wirless are as valid as the idea of sweating out excrement and doing it without intestines. A cable is a cable. If you want quality.
Absolutely true!
But when the alternative is $2000 worth of remodeling, I'm willing to settle for a "nice" picture in a part of the house that isn't accessible any other way.
Remember, I'm a broadcast/video guy, so I do have standards. I can tell you these little boxes DO work if you follow directions. I just added a review on Amazon.
I'm waiting for someone to bring up the theory that this was all staged by the KGB (i.e. its successor organisation) to discredit the Chechen cause for independence. It can't be long ...
I suspect it has less to do with Chechen issues than the religious aspects. Extremists seem to be using religion as the entry point for terrorism.
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I'm waiting for someone to bring up the theory that this was all staged by the KGB (i.e. its successor organisation) to discredit the Chechen cause for independence. It can't be long ...
The conspiracy theorists have so permanently cast the US government as their enemy that they cannot fathom an enemy that doesn't send them a monthly check. It's also a reflection of the narcissism that super right-wingers in the US have, rather than the nationalism you see in right wing movements in other countries.
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You have a point there. It seems like there's a huge contingent of right-wingers who think they can hear the black helicopters hovering just over the horizon. To them, it's always a gummint conspiracy.
You s'pose the same folks are the ones who believe the fabled 100-MPG carburetor was suppressed?
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I know people on both sides of the isle that have plenty of conspiracy theories about the government. But they only see the opposite party as the bad guys. They are willingly blind to what their party does to screw up the system, or make excuses for their politicians shady behaviour. Wrong is wrong regardless of which side does it.
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It was Zooey Deschanel. At least that's what one Fox News affiliate claimed.
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I know people on both sides of the isle that have plenty of conspiracy theories about the government. But they only see the opposite party as the bad guys. They are willingly blind to what their party does to screw up the system, or make excuses for their politicians shady behaviour. Wrong is wrong regardless of which side does it.
Right.
I'm old enough to remember all the conspiracy theories about JFK, RFK and MLK, most of them came from the left. And the only person I know of who literally believes the black helicopters are flying over her home is a lefty.
Conspiracy theories arise because governments lie so much and cover up so much. Or things happen afterward that make some people think there was a method behind the madness. A lot of seemingly dark things could probably be easily explained if government were open and honest, but that's not going to happen because other dark things would probably be proven true.
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Here's a good reason to distrust politicians, and from my own state. He is the type of "leader" the colonies rebelled against in the 1700s.
"I am the senator. You are the citizen. You need to be quiet.” - Sen. Tommy Tucker
Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/04/16/3986274/move-is-afoot-to-make-government.html#storylink=cpy
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/04/16/3986274/move-is-afoot-to-make-government.html
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Conspiracy theories arise because governments lie so much and cover up so much. Or things happen afterward that make some people think there was a method behind the madness. A lot of seemingly dark things could probably be easily explained if government were open and honest, but that's not going to happen because other dark things would probably be proven true.
I think you really have something there. If government agencies didn't play politics so much and shared information they reasonably can in a straightforward fashion, they would make it much easier for people to trust them. At least since Vietnam it seems like my generation has not trusted what they're told by government agencies. And it would really help if the first reaction from every military and government agency wasn't to stonewall when challenged.