The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Bill's Shop: Projects, Mods & Repairs => Topic started by: shadowcastaz on April 22, 2008, 10:14:40 AM
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The edges were sanded through by previous restorer and filled with red paint. I cut along edge with xacto and carved to score mark.
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/shadowcastaz/IMGP0506.jpg)
grain match ,I hope, Mahog veneer and glue
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/shadowcastaz/IMGP0509.jpg)
i carved out a sand through by an F hole and decided to patch the whole strip
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/shadowcastaz/IMGP0511.jpg)
tomw i remove tape and see what happens......
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/shadowcastaz/IMGP0513.jpg)
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Ouch, that is a can of worms you are getting into.
What are your plans for it ?
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Very creative patching there. Are you still thinking trans green for the finish?
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Im planning to do this
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/shadowcastaz/GuildandCase.jpg)
although the pic is maple,mine is mahog.
It looked like this
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/shadowcastaz/IMGP0310.jpg)
I am going to test some pieces with light grain filler ,then yellow dye. If I like what I see In going to layer very thinned green dye and see what happens. I got all the parts . This is the hard part. If all else fails I can put a shotgun shell on the FB and paint it orange/blue burst. ::)
I did remove the tape this AM and Im pleased to say that the seams and free hand cutting went well,much to my surprise. I guess all those years of cutting meat,fish and vegies has given me an accurate hand.M
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it looks better already! what happened to the previous finish?
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1 1/2 bottle of non caustic stripper. I forget the brand. I got so sick and tired of scraping and wiping on old towels i had to hang it up for a couple months. Whoever worked on this sanded too close to the edge and through the mahog veneer. The binding was secured with brads!!! and paint filled the edges up to the binding. I estimate 12 -16 oz of paint was painfully removed.
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I was under the assumption you can't dye mahogany green or blue because it is orange, so you would end up with mud?
You would be tying to dye over a contrasting color, which in paint, turns to muddy brownish grayish, not attractive colors.
Do a test piece first.
Also since mahogany is an open grain wood wouldn't you have to remove/sand quite a bit of wood to remove the old finish?
Anyone have a pic of Stained blue or green mahogany??
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(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/shadowcastaz/IMGP0515.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/shadowcastaz/IMGP0516.jpg)
progress....more later in week.M
I believe this is mahog
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/shadowcastaz/BA-1472.jpg)
and this
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/shadowcastaz/greencatalog.jpg)
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Anything can be done-
The second one in the catalogue looks like it could be?
It looks a very military orange green, which is cool looking.
I guess the thing to do is experiment first.
From Reranch-
Because of the darkness of the wood the use of dyes on mahogany and swietenia (to a lesser degree) is limited. "Woody" colors such as mahogany and walnut work well on both species but colors like yellow and blue may not. Red will give a wine color (like an SG) to true mahogany but may give a redder color on the lighter swietenia. Test first before committing to a color.
When dying both types of mahogany some success with obtaining a true color can be had if the wood is bleached first. If you must have a blue mahogany guitar try an A/B bleach Like the Parks Corp. wood bleach. Home Depot has it for less than $10.
If Uwe's luthier did an orange & blue burst without turning muddy, anything can be done
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I did the A/B bleach once. Nasty stuff. I have not sanded ,obviously so Im still hopeful. I love the natural gold tone of clear finish Mahog.Id love to find some flamey mahog.
Now I have to tile a back splash......any ideas why......
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They have figured mahogany tops here-
http://www.gilmerwood.com/instrument_wood-lam-sets.htm
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I love that site. Veneering a compound curve is real difficult. I have a PRS from late 80's that was red and some genius stripped it . A buddy sent it too me and its driven me nuts for years finding parts. I now have the parts and went to veneer it and my wood guru said even w/ vacume press, it wont work without splitting the veneer. if I get good at patching I may make the PRS a 10 top yet!
If my project were flat Id do it in a minute. .Thanx
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We have a local bunch - they were Woodworkers Warehouse originally and I forget the new name - but the basement is where they keep the "good" wood: planks of exotic stuff, smells wonderful, and they have loads of veneers, like tiger maple, mahogany, etc. Wide enough to do a guitar body. It is great because you can go through the pile and find the best sheet without having one mailed from someplace. One of these days I will find a top project again (I passed on a really f'd over 59 LP jr that haunts me) and go there. You can veneer a curved top but it is hard, which is why lots of ES and EB2 bodies have the cracks along the belly. That is why they used the Sparkling Burgundy finish - to hide their screw ups. It is not easy to do those. It can be done though.
My recollection of those Guilds in that green is that it is opaque and not a stain.
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2/3 done.Whata mess.
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/shadowcastaz/IMGP0520.jpg)
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/shadowcastaz/IMGP0519.jpg)
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Man, I admire your tenacity. I thought the paint and brads on that thing made it a pretty much worthless piece, but you are really making progress on it. Patience is a virtue!
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I shoulda been a priest!........nah!
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I shoulda been a priest!........nah!
Ah yes, Father Shadow! 8)
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The thing I love about disasters is the fact that you no longer have to worry about vintage integrity. You have the freedom to do what you want on any level.
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Lime and pink burst! Im on like a Ho on a hundred!Anodized orange tuners and a black bridge.
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All patched and trimmed. Now the thumb sanding begins. :P(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/shadowcastaz/fini.jpg)
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Very nice! How's the grain look in terms of matching? I always find that's the real pain on a job like this.
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Its ok..where the 2 meet In going to put a drop of crazy glue as I sand to fill a void if there is one. Then grain fill the patch (prob before i sand) and see then what happens . The danger of course is sanding through the old mahog and creating the problem again.Then Im gonna fool around with some test oieces on the color. I gave an old mahog beater Im going to scab on some veneer and hit it w dye.I can make it opaque but I want the grain to show thru. I would never try to patch this amount and do a clear or light finish . Id stare at the mismatch all the time.
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Makes sense. Post a close up of the result.
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I think you're going to have to subtly stain the patches - with some red in there it looks - so that the base color matches. The transparent green is a pretty dark color though and I bet it will obscure a lot of the differences.
I'd use a darker grain filler so that the grain is visible through the darkish green tint - ideally the filled grain should look like little black dots under the green finish. But make sure any join lines are filled before applying the filler - cuz the filler will enhance those lines too otherwise.
Maybe this is all stating the obvious.
Krishna
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Now that is one worthy resurrection. You'll go to Guild heaven for it no doubt.
Uwe
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Yes he will! This is the toughest type of woodworking in my estimation. Repairing sand throughs like this is a real challenge. If it were me, I would have been tempted to take the easy way out and fill as best as possible and paint it a solid color. I give Mike a lot of credit for tackling this one.
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Back,not done fixin,
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/shadowcastaz/IMGP0524.jpg)
top with stain and grain filler. gonna sand tonight I hope
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/shadowcastaz/IMGP0525.jpg)
Im gonna have to decide on opaque green or a natural reddish finish ,that red residue is a PIA!
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Wow, that's looking really good!
You are a brave soul on this one.
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Looking good! I'm stripping my Guild now and tried chemicals on a section and the black residue bled into the maple a little, so I'm doing the rest with sand paper. Chemicals are great, but they can create more problems than they solve!
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Back,not done fixin,
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/shadowcastaz/IMGP0524.jpg)
top with stain and grain filler. gonna sand tonight I hope
(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/shadowcastaz/IMGP0525.jpg)
Im gonna have to decide on opaque green or a natural reddish finish ,that red residue is a PIA!
You need to get all that grain filler off the SURFACE of the wood - its a lot of hand sanding - I used a small rubber teardrop cross section sanding form I got at Rockler and it worked well. I think it will look very good once you're done sanding off the excess filler. This looks almost exactly like what I went through with the Starfire I redid natural - see the archives or my website for pics of that process.
You will not get the red out of the end grain on the neck nor the sides - been there and tried that - as popeye would say "Imposski-bill!!!".
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Interestingly enough i am familiar with your natural Starfire. someone sent me a link a while back.Was there also a green one?(http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d138/shadowcastaz/icon_mrgreen.gif)
I can always make the edges darker and fade to green. nuthin like experimenting on the real deal