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Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: chromium on March 08, 2008, 02:54:04 AM

Title: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: chromium on March 08, 2008, 02:54:04 AM
For those brave souls who wish to go fishing in their F-holes  :o, I present to you a case study in implementing the fabled EB2 choke-bypass modification.  This was my attempt at it, and I was happy with the outcome - especially since no irreversible modification to the bass was required.

To recap the whole bypass thing, the goal of this mod was to enable a means of selectively severing a section of the circuit (the choke/filter) - in order to eliminate a residual filtering effect.  This filtering colors the sound of the mudbucker by removing most of its mid and high frequencies, leaving only that resounding muffled, "low-hovering-cloud" sound.  At the other end of the spectrum, you have the nasal "baritone" sound, which is devoid of bass.  No real happy medium to be found.

As it turns out, the choke/filter circuit is always present and doing something in the overall scheme of things, even when the baritone mode is supposedly disengaged.  In bypassing the choke circuit, the full-range output of the pickup can be realized, yielding a tone with more midrange punch - not unlike the SG-style EBs.  This tone works wonders in live settings, helps the bass cut through the mix, and still retains that EB "girth".

In order to implement this mod, and still retain the two original settings (I like them for recording), I chose to replace my pushbutton (SPST) baritone switch with a 3-position (DPDT) toggle.  The stock switch had a 3/8" diameter shaft, yet the hole it was situated in was drilled out to 1/2".  Given the fact that I would not have to touch a drill to install it, I opted for the 3-position Les Paul pickup selector (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electronics,_pickups/Components:_Switches_and_knobs/3/3-way_Pickup_Switches.html) switch.  Unlike the dual-pickup selector, this switch will give you DPDT capability.

The original schematic from Gibson looked like this:

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/eb2mod/EB2D-original-error-small.jpg)

Note the red highlighted connection to ground is a mistake, and should not be present.  This was an error on the original schematic that I obtained from Gibson, and if implemented would result in no output whatsoever.



Here is the modified schematic, depicting the new switching capability:

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/eb2mod/EB2D-mod-small.jpg)

I realize this is an EB-2D schematic, but the choke circuit should be similar in EB-2 and Rivoli applications - so don't let that throw you off.  Someone had drawn up a modded EB-2 schematic - wish I would have saved it.



One note about the switch that I had chosen.  The switching behavior had to be altered by bending one of the prongs using needlenose pliers - prong #4 to be exact.  I snapped a photo to illustrate exactly what to modify, if you end up using this type of switch:

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/eb2mod/toggle.jpg)


The pins are numbered #1-#6, starting at the top.  The goal is to make is to make it so that pin #4 never comes in contact with #5 - otherwise, the center position would enable the original unchoked mode as opposed to the bypass mode.  Once that change has been made, the switching behavior will work as follows:

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/eb2mod/switch-positions-highlighted.jpg)

If you're not into that approach, a regular DPDT toggle switch (http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/eb2mod/C215.jpg) should fit the bill as is.  I just prefered the look and feel of the LP toggle - so I made it work.


That's really all there is to the mod.  I made a quick recording that highlights each sound, so you can hear the differences.  The first eight bars feature the original "unchoked, but filtered" mode, the next eight bars feature the "new" unchoked/unfiltered mode, and the final eight are the original baritone mode.  Note that it is kind of hard to appreciate the difference between the original unchoked, and the choke-bypass modes at low volume, but you can hear the mids open up, and the boominess start to subside.  The effect is more exaggerated at volume.  (EDIT:  I just realized I had both pickups on the whole time.  I meant to switch it to neck only for a good baseline (and bassline  :) ) comparison - oh well.)

      http://www.hillscloud.com/music/EB2(unchoke-bypass-baritone).mp3 (http://www.hillscloud.com/music/EB2(unchoke-bypass-baritone).mp3)


When I did this mod, I just gutted the bass, and built an entirely new harness with push-back wire, CTS pots, etc...  Here are some photos of the whole process:

Guts and glory:
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/eb2mod/guts.jpg)


My new, modified wiring harness:
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/eb2mod/new-harness-back.jpg)


Completed bass with toggle switch:
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/eb2mod/after1-1.jpg)


Hope this helps!
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: drbassman on March 08, 2008, 06:11:49 AM
Here's the original EB-2 schematic. 

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/drbassman/66%20EB-2/eb-2wiring.jpg)
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: uwe on March 08, 2008, 08:23:20 AM
I had that mod done by my luthier a while ago - difference is night and day.
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: drbassman on March 08, 2008, 09:35:53 AM
I had that mod done by my luthier a while ago - difference is night and day.

Was yours an EB-2D or EB-2?
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: uwe on March 08, 2008, 10:31:58 AM
EB-2, which was original. But I think I also have the mudmod (or a mod of the mudmod) on my EB-2D thanks to the fiddlings of a preowner: On my EB-2D, the baritone button does not affect the mudbucker which sounds unchoked in all its might, but it does affect ever so slightly the bridge mini which sounds flatter choked and a little louder, but generally "more there" with a slight presence shine if unchoked. I'm sure that this wasn't how it originally worked, but I like the way it is now. It's a subtle difference, but deactivating the choke makes the bass sound more assertive in two pup or bridge pup only mode.

Uwe
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: chromium on March 08, 2008, 11:47:40 AM
Dr. B - I revised that EB-2 schematic that you posted to reflect the mod.  This is what it would end up looking like:

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/eb2mod/EB2-mod.jpg)


Also, I located the sound samples that I did way back when I performed this mod.  These use only the neck pickup on my bass, and give a better representation of what the end result on an EB-2 would be:

Original Unchoked Mode (http://www.hillscloud.com/music/eb2d-normal.mp3)
Bypass Mode (http://www.hillscloud.com/music/eb2d-bypass.mp3)
Choked/Baritone Mode (http://www.hillscloud.com/music/eb2d-choked.mp3)
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: ramone57 on March 08, 2008, 11:32:00 PM
thanks, Joe.   gonna have to give this a shot some day....
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: uwe on March 09, 2008, 11:39:31 AM
Those sound samples are enlightening, I coul hardly hear the choked mud on my puny monitors here but the unchoked mud came out nicely - love the Long Cool Woman riff (Hollies do CCR)!
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: chromium on March 10, 2008, 12:51:07 PM
I forgot to mention it, but one other trick that came up in that old "mudbucker unleashed" thread was a relatively simple mod to permanently enable the "bypass" mode - without having to first excavate all the electronics from the bass.

All you have to do is locate this wire under the bridge, dig out a bit of the wax that surrounds it, and desolder the wire from the top of the inductor (the big square silver thing).  Knowing that I'd later reconnect it and perform the full mod, I just slipped a little piece of heat shrink tubing over the bare end of the wire (to insulate it), and set it right back down where I found it.  You can even melt a little bit of parafin wax in there to cover things up again, if you plan to leave it this way.

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/eb2mod/choke-wire-1.jpg)


I did this trick initially to try out the mod, before committing to the larger rewiring effort.  The only downside with this is that you lose both of the original sounds in the process - the unchoked and baritone modes.  Some folks might not miss them at all, but I think they can be used to good effect in recording, and live if you're going for that choked Yardbirds sound.

I like eb2's idea of the push-pull pot.  There are probably lots of cool variations possible.  If you come up with something neat, post it here - I'd like to see it too.  Might give me an exceuse to pursue the Rivoli I've always wanted!   ;)


Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: Granny Gremlin on March 13, 2008, 09:24:30 AM
Excellent write-up.

Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: drbassman on March 14, 2008, 04:38:56 AM
Dr. B - I revised that EB-2 schematic that you posted to reflect the mod.  This is what it would end up looking like:

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/eb2mod/EB2-mod.jpg)


Also, I located the sound samples that I did way back when I performed this mod.  These use only the neck pickup on my bass, and give a better representation of what the end result on an EB-2 would be:

Original Unchoked Mode (http://www.hillscloud.com/music/eb2d-normal.mp3)
Bypass Mode (http://www.hillscloud.com/music/eb2d-bypass.mp3)
Choked/Baritone Mode (http://www.hillscloud.com/music/eb2d-choked.mp3)

Thanks so much for the diagram and clips.  Very cool sounding!  That's a typical 3-way switch you have in there, right?  I was also wondering about the wires on the inductor.  Mine was removed and I'm not sure what is what.  Any advice you could give?
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: chromium on March 14, 2008, 07:30:47 AM
That's a typical 3-way switch you have in there, right?  I was also wondering about the wires on the inductor.  Mine was removed and I'm not sure what is what.  Any advice you could give?

It's a typical 3-way toggle - but make sure you get the one for the triple-pickup SGs and Les Pauls.  They use a different switch in the two pickup models, and it does not provide the switching capability needed for this circuit.

Just to clarify on your inductor question - does it look as though you missing the inductor altogether?  or are you just wondering how to go about reinstalling it?  I'm asking because finding an exact replacement for a missing inductor will be difficult, but finding a equivalent will probably be possible.
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: drbassman on March 16, 2008, 04:37:14 AM
Here's what I have:

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y16/drbassman/66%20EB-2/100_1347.jpg)
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: chromium on March 17, 2008, 12:44:31 PM
Dr B - are there three wires coming off of that inductor?  Is that short black wire soldered to the casing on the other side?  I think that is the one that you can see in my pic above.

Honestly, I only remember dealing with two wires on mine, but its been a long time - and I didn't have it completely out of the bass.  I'll look at the one in my EB-3 later on and see I can refresh my memory as to where that third wire would go...
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: drbassman on March 18, 2008, 04:36:15 AM
I checked it out and here's the scoop.  All 3 wires come out of the inductor.  The black wire is supposed to be turned up and soldered to the top of the inductor and has just broken loose.  That leaves the green and purple wires.
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: chromium on March 18, 2008, 08:32:22 AM
I looked inside my EB-3 last night, and that inductor only has two wires coming out of the tin - the black one is soldered to the outside of the tin as you mention.  In addition, there is a piece of hook-up wire soldered to the tin that grounds it to the rest of the circuit.  I tried to look inside my EB-2D, but couldn't get any sort of view to see the inductor outputs on that one. 

I'm wondering if your third wire is just a tap-point midway thru the inductor coil?  You might be able to tell which is the mid-point using a multimeter, and measuring the resistance between the black wire and each of the two colored wires - higher value being the full coil.  That won't tell you the value of the inductor, though.  You can get multimeters that measure capacitance/inductance (http://www.tequipment.net/ProductImages/Protek/protekCL200_large.jpg).  Might be worth picking up a cheap one for this project, or taking the part to a local tech to measure for you.

Any thoughts from others on my assumption?? (eb2, Jake...)  Also, is the value of the inductor really supposed to be 15 Henry (as in the EB2 schematic above)?  For some reason, I thought the value they used was 1.5 Henry...  Just want to make sure their schematic isn't wrong there too.
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: drbassman on March 18, 2008, 06:47:03 PM
well, this is getting over my head!
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: chromium on March 19, 2008, 10:10:09 AM
Doc-

Without getting into all the minutiae, my hunch is this (and I could be completely wrong here  ;) ):

- Your inductor is original, but differs from mine (probably Gibson just using what they had in the parts bin)
- The black wire is definitely for ground
- Your red and green wires offer two different inductor values, unlinke mine - which only offers one (one wire).
- Either the red *or* green wire could be used as your other (non ground) connection - and each would probably result in a different tone for the choke circuit.  (I suspect one of those wires gives something like half the inductance value of the other).

This pic from Jules' site shows more of what my inductors look like.  I remember the EB-2D inductor being similar to my EB-3, in terms of only having two wires coming out of the tin:

(http://www.gibsonbass.com/graphics/late60sEB3circuit.jpg)


What I would suggest is, when the time comes:  wire it up and test it outside of the bass first, comparing the tone to your other EB-2, and let your ears be the guide of which inductor connection - the red or green wire - to use permanently.

Hope that helps clarify my thoughts.  If you really want to get a headache, just think of all the wiring and tonal possibilities using a switch (maybe a rotary, like these L6-S switches I bought!  Give it an ES-345 vibe...) that could exploit all the sonic options in my bass PLUS this possible "extra" choke value with your inductor! :D  Statictically speaking, your setup time (laboring over that perfect tone) would probably start to eclipse that of most guitar players!  ;D
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: drbassman on March 19, 2008, 10:36:39 AM
Well, that make sense Joe.  I might be able to see if one inductor wire has been soldered and the other not.  I'll check and see.  I think your theory sounds pretty plausible knowing how Gibson operated back then!  Thanks for digging into this for us!
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: Granny Gremlin on March 20, 2008, 10:22:41 PM
I would guess that the 3rd wire was a ground for the sheild in which the inductor lives. Remember that older choke coils (on series 1 EB3s anyway) had a bit of metal leaf soldered on with 2 holes drilled to fascilitate mounting accross 2 pot shafts.  This would have the additional effect of connecting the choke case to the pot case which is connected to ground, making the third wire unnecessary.  ... and by that I mean that I would agree that it's probably the original one (see the pics of the choke in the 1966 EB-2 Wiring - the PO screwed with this too much! thread (http://bassoutpost.com/index.php?topic=323.0) - also 3 wires). Neither series 2 EB3s nor Rippers even have sheilds on the inductor if that gives you any idea of how vital a connection Gibson considered it to be (I see plenty of value in it, mind).

Chromium, it occurs to me just now that your 3 way toggle mod would be an excellent opportunity to get that damn series resistor out of the circuit.   ;)

Yes, the inductor apparently really is 15 H (I was thinking that is was meant to be 15mH for the longest time, as Gibson and labelling/QCing things properly is iffy, and 15 H is really HUGE) - see my post in the thread linked above for details. IIRC, 1.5 was what they used on the guitar varitone (i.e. Lucile) which makes perfect sense (rolloff point exactly an octave up from the EB choke) - realising this is what initially made me stop thinking the EB2 diagram was mislabled.

As you suggest, the purpose of the 3rd wire can be checked with a multimeter (or a battery + flashlight bulb) - check for continuity between the inductor casing and the 3rd wire to confirm my hypothesis.
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: drbassman on March 25, 2008, 03:25:51 PM
Thanks guys.  I'll get the meter out and see what comes up.  This is a real challenge for me!
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: drbassman on September 16, 2009, 04:21:32 AM
Hi Guys, I'm gonna revive this thread.  I put this bass on the back burner last year and now it's almost ready for paint.  So, I thought I'd ask a couple questions on the wiring.

I 'm going to try and use Joe's mod that he posted above.  I'm just not sure what to do with the two long wires coming out of the choke. I'll check their impedance later today and get back to you for some more advice.  

The PO was a real winner.  The pup and wiring were probably not from this bass.  The pup had the bracket on the bottom and didn't fit the cavity.  The pots and harness don't match up to the holes in the body.  The whole thing's a disaster.  I'll be taking it all apart and starting from scratch!

ADDITION:  Decided to screw work for a few minutes and tested the stuff.  The pup is 28.7k, so that's typical.  The choke gives a  .81 reading off the green wire and the long purple wire intertwined with the green one is dead, no reading at all.  So that makes my choices easier, no?
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: eb2 on September 16, 2009, 06:57:50 AM
Not to stir up a hornet's nest, but did you see that EB-0 mod on Jules' board?  The last guy who posted seems to understand these things pretty well too. 

Me, I hope the choke is still hooked up, but if it isn't, good too.  I just feel like I should be wearing a lead apron over my nuts when I see them.
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: uwe on September 16, 2009, 07:09:40 AM
"lead apron"

File under "assless chaps".
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: chromium on September 16, 2009, 07:45:13 AM
Not to stir up a hornet's nest, but did you see that EB-0 mod on Jules' board? 

Just looked and saw that mod- that's a good idea.  That would give you variable amounts of choke, rather than just the on/off extremes.  In schematics for the Howard Roberts, L6-S, others(?)..  I noticed Gibson did something similar- where a pot controlled how much signal was bled thru a tone choke to ground.  That's basically what's going on there.
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: drbassman on September 16, 2009, 10:31:14 AM
Just looked and saw that mod- that's a good idea.  That would give you variable amounts of choke, rather than just the on/off extremes.  In schematics for the Howard Roberts, L6-S, others(?)..  I noticed Gibson did something similar- where a pot controlled how much signal was bled thru a tone choke to ground.  That's basically what's going on there.

Does this make sense Joe?  "Decided to screw work for a few minutes and tested the stuff.  The pup is 28.7k, so that's typical.  The choke gives a  .81 reading off the green wire and the long purple wire intertwined with the green one is dead, no reading at all.  So that makes my choices easier, no?"
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: Highlander on September 16, 2009, 01:32:46 PM
This is really "late to the party", Joe, but considering your original post... those switches can be stripped down, usually, and it would be (possibly, not having seen original) easier to remove leaf 4 altogether than to risk damage to the remainder...?
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: chromium on September 16, 2009, 04:30:39 PM
This is really "late to the party", Joe, but considering your original post... those switches can be stripped down, usually, and it would be (possibly, not having seen original) easier to remove leaf 4 altogether than to risk damage to the remainder...?

That's true- you can probably pull the switch apart and just remove that prong altogether.  A "regular" DPDT switch would do the job as-is too.  I just like the springy feel of those pickup selector switches.  :)
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: chromium on September 16, 2009, 04:45:58 PM
Does this make sense Joe?  "Decided to screw work for a few minutes and tested the stuff.  The pup is 28.7k, so that's typical.  The choke gives a  .81 reading off the green wire and the long purple wire intertwined with the green one is dead, no reading at all.  So that makes my choices easier, no?"

Yeah there's no harm in trying it like that.  The inductor should just have a wire going into the coil, and one coming out.  If you get some resistance reading across two of the wires, then those are probably the choke wires. 

I think Jake's hypothesis was right about that third wire - probably just a ground wire for the choke's metal enclosure.  You could always check that by measuring resistance from the enclosure to the end of that third wire.  Little or no resistance reading there, and an infinite resistance reading (i.e. no connection) between that wire and the other two choke leads would tell me that it would be ok to ground the "mystery wire".
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: drbassman on September 17, 2009, 04:34:32 AM
I think I would just like to use a DPDT push button switch.  Could I use one of the stomp pedal switches that's an "on-on" configuration?
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: chromium on September 17, 2009, 08:36:14 AM
I think I would just like to use a DPDT push button switch.  Could I use one of the stomp pedal switches that's an "on-on" configuration?

The only problem there is that the mod counts on that "center off" position that the toggle switches provide, to activate the three different modes.  With the push button, you'll only be able to engage the two outer throws of the switch.

The wiring could indeed be adapted to work with a push-button, though, if there's one of the original modes you'd be willing to sacrifice - full-mud or original baritone.  I'm happy to diagram a push-button-friendly revision for you, if you decide to go this route.

fyi- if it helps with finding a switch, this guy has been good to deal with.  He's priced comparatively low on stuff like orange-drops, too..:

http://www.smallbearelec.com/Categories.bok?category=Switches%2C+Relays&searchpath=352&start=1&total=52
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: drbassman on September 17, 2009, 12:02:45 PM
Could it be wired so it operated like the old baritone switch?  ON for bari or on for bass?
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: chromium on September 17, 2009, 12:46:14 PM
Could it be wired so it operated like the old baritone switch?  ON for bari or on for bass?

Yeah - that would look more like this:

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/eb2mod/eb2-bypass-pushbutton-mod-1.jpg)

(sorry I'm not artistic enough to draw this in terms of a wiring diagram)

Note that the "bass" setting of the switch will enable the unfiltered, full range sound of the mudbucker.  If you wanted that original filtered boom in the bass setting, then you would just use the original Gibson schematic.  


(EDIT: Doh!  Some days there's just not enough coffee in my life.  Schematic has been revised)
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: drbassman on September 20, 2009, 09:21:14 AM
Thanks for the supplier web site!  I hate to ask another dumb question, but which push button switch would you recommend?

The only problem there is that the mod counts on that "center off" position that the toggle switches provide, to activate the three different modes.  With the push button, you'll only be able to engage the two outer throws of the switch.

The wiring could indeed be adapted to work with a push-button, though, if there's one of the original modes you'd be willing to sacrifice - full-mud or original baritone.  I'm happy to diagram a push-button-friendly revision for you, if you decide to go this route.

fyi- if it helps with finding a switch, this guy has been good to deal with.  He's priced comparatively low on stuff like orange-drops, too..:

http://www.smallbearelec.com/Categories.bok?category=Switches%2C+Relays&searchpath=352&start=1&total=52

Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: Highlander on September 20, 2009, 01:14:07 PM
Having one of Gibsons most "complicated" designs (albeit "de-Mooged"), but never having owned a "classic", I have no idea as to what a "choke" is... yes, the old designation meant a "soak" capacitive circuit, commonly used in inductive lighting design, but the drawings you've all posted here all relate to a "coil"...?
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: chromium on September 20, 2009, 02:09:14 PM
Thanks for the supplier web site!  I hate to ask another dumb question, but which push button switch would you recommend?


I'd probably opt for the Carling DPDT - http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=80, or the similar Alpha - http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=23.  Pretty sure either of those would work out just fine for you.  

The one thing about these pushbuttons (at least in my own past experiences) is that they take a pretty firm push to activate, and let out a loud "clack".  That's one of the reasons I just prefer the feel of that toggle I used... but that's all just personal preference.  Just mentioning so you're aware of it.  I haven't come across any "soft touch" DPDT pushbuttons (but I'd love to know in the event anyone else has).


Having one of Gibsons most "complicated" designs (albeit "de-Mooged"), but never having owned a "classic", I have no idea as to what a "choke" is... yes, the old designation meant a "soak" capacitive circuit, commonly used in inductive lighting design, but the drawings you've all posted here all relate to a "coil"...?

Ken - I only know enough of the theory to be dangerous, but I believe they refer to these types of circuits as inductive-capacitance filters (LC filter networks, L=inductor, C=capacitor)

A typical tone control in a bass is comprised of a resistor (usually a pot), and capacitor (known as an RC filter netowrks, R=resistor, C=capacitor).  They're almost always setup as a "low-pass" filter, meaning they will allow low frequencies to pass and will shunt the high frequencies to ground.

The LC filters that Gibson employed (here, in the Varitone, etc..) are tuned to pass certain bands or ranges of frequencies, and can also add an "emphasis" on these frequencies (sometime referred to as resonance, or "Q" - like the "Q" knob/switch on an Alembic bass).  That seems to be how the "baritone" setting acts.  It produces a very nasal sound, almost like spiking a select midrange frequency on a graphic EQ, and cutting all the other frequencies.  I think "choke" is just a slang term for the cutting (choking) of those other frequencies.

I found a good description of what an inductor is here, and it explains a bit about how it is used in filter circuits:

    http://www.williamson-labs.com/480_rlc-l.htm (http://www.williamson-labs.com/480_rlc-l.htm)
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: Basvarken on September 18, 2017, 10:39:34 AM
Resurrection time!

A friend of mine bought a 1964 EB2 the other day.
I told him about the three way toggle that Joe installed to use the fully engaged Mudbucker in all its glory.

Now he's asking me if I could do the modification for him. But I'm afraid all the pics in this thread have been photobucketed...
Can anybody help maybe? Joe?
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: chromium on September 18, 2017, 06:04:43 PM
Resurrection time!

A friend of mine bought a 1964 EB2 the other day.
I told him about the three way toggle that Joe installed to use the fully engaged Mudbucker in all its glory.

Now he's asking me if I could do the modification for him. But I'm afraid all the pics in this thread have been photobucketed...
Can anybody help maybe? Joe?

Rob- here's the one post summary  ;D


For an EB2/Rivoli, this depicts the tone switch mod:
(https://i.imgur.com/XZN6KiF.jpg)


I'll add the EB2D version here too - in case it helps anyone in the future:
(https://i.imgur.com/i8luelI.jpg)


This pic details the switching behavior.  Note that in the middle "choke bypass" position, one throw on the DPDT switch should not engage (between lugs 5 and 6 on the pic):

(https://i.imgur.com/WWrDblO.jpg)


That throws a bit of a curve, since some DPDT toggles won't function this way.  It would require one with an "on-off-on" center position.

I opted to use a triple-pickup Les Paul toggle (http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_Resources/Learn_About_Guitar_Pickups_and_Electronics_and_Wiring/Right-angle_Toggle_Switch_for_3-Pickup_Guitars.html), and bent one of the pins in such a way that it supports that switching behavior. 

The pins are numbered 1-6, starting at the top.  The goal is to make is to make it so that pin #4 never comes in contact with #5 when in the middle position – otherwise, it would give the original unchoked mode as opposed to the desired bypass mode.

Pic below will explain that modification visually:

(https://i.imgur.com/IoiG9Fu.jpg)


I liked the look of that switch better anyway, and if I recall it was a pretty close fit in the hole from the original pushbutton:

(https://i.imgur.com/mj9mvY5.png)


Hope that helps, and reach out if you still have questions.
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: Basvarken on September 18, 2017, 10:56:38 PM
Wow! Thank you very much Joe!  :toast:
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: Granny Gremlin on September 19, 2017, 06:17:17 AM
Thanks for refreshing the pics; I do hope to need this one day   ;) :-\ :-[

One question though.

(https://i.imgur.com/WWrDblO.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/IoiG9Fu.jpg)

Looks like Position 2 is open/nothing connected (I see you drew a connection between pole 1 input, or pin2, to pin 3, but since pin 3 isn't actually connected to anything, that's superfuous but indicates what the switch is doing).  Wouldn't a simple DPDT on-off-on 3 way work here?  (I have tones of those, but minis vs full size).  Since the LP Custom toggle is on-on-on, what you mean by bending 'pin 4 upward' is that you effectively defeat the connection of the second pole in middle position (which connects 2-3 and 4-5, as shown here (http://www.stewmac.com/How-To/Online_Resources/Learn_About_Guitar_Pickups_and_Electronics_and_Wiring/Right-angle_Toggle_Switch_for_3-Pickup_Guitars.html) ).

I get that these switches look cooler (though personally I hate the cream plastic tips, and nobody sees the guts when it's inside a guitar), but it'd be easier (and more reliable long term as regards performance - bending the leaves out of whack can slip back over time; also some tech being able to figure out what's going on in there without you explaining the mod to the switch itself) to use an on-off-on.  Mini's are nice and unobtrusive, but too small for the existing (baritone switch) hole I assume. They make full size ones, usually for use as main power switches (or battery handling switches in automotive applications - sometimes with screw terminals vs solder tabs); in either case solid metal lever (vs screw on plastic tip, so that's a plus for me personally) and sealed mechanism (vs exposed leaves) and they are cheaper ($5 or less vs 10 or more) except on Amazon or Home Depot who charge double/triple that for some reason, and easier to find (not specialoised guitar use only sort of thing). Sealed units are better these days (vs the mark of a cheap switch on an import guitar back in the day).


Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: chromium on September 19, 2017, 07:24:30 AM
Jake - you are correct.  An on-off-on toggle (center off) would work just fine.  I went with this one more for the aesthetic, and I like the springy feel  :)

Also, if I recall correctly when test-fitting some other options, the big toggles (ala Carling) would have required boring the hole out a bit, and the minis were swimming in the old pushbutton hole.  This switch fit pretty well in mine as-is.

Another slick approach could be to implement using a couple of push-pull pots... Or even a combo of a push-pull for the orig sounds, and use of the stock pushbutton to cut the inductor's ground connection (for choke bypass).

Very worthy mod, no matter how you tackle it!  It's a testament that I still own that bass.  Really extended the useful sonic range, and I still enjoy playing it out from time to time.
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: bobyoung on November 01, 2019, 10:09:20 AM
I finally just did the simple mod that Chromium posted about ten years ago, haha! Went under the bridge, dug out the wire going to the choke which came undone all by itself. This thing now sounds unbelievable (1966 EB-2) Also the baritone switch still works for some reason except that there is still some bottom with it engaged and is usable unlike the original nasally tone which was devoid of bottom, it's been gathering dust for the past two or three years so time to take it out to a blues jam. Thanks.
Title: Re: The EB2 Triple Bypass (Choke Bypass Modification)
Post by: bobyoung on November 01, 2019, 10:15:23 AM
I think I did the single bypass but what a difference, I have no need for the baritone sound so I'll leave it as is.