The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Bass Amps & Effects => Topic started by: Highlander on August 10, 2009, 02:26:04 PM
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EDITORS NOTE... I lifted this from where Chris found me back in February, so this is just for the curious...
I've just added her to Mark Huss' database (back in February) and after some discussions with him he has decided to call her a "DR103 SWITCH" as the plate identifies her as that, not an AP, or an SAP. she looks like a DR103S (similar to the '74 on Mark's site)...
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/sno-plate-1.jpg)
"SWITCH"...? She is not identified as an AP or an SAP or as a DR103S (see pic of plate) and does not follow the Gilmour type of layout but is much more similar to the '74 DR103S on Mark's site - is there anyone else out there with a brother/sister to her that can give me an idea of how many others there are...?
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/front.jpg)
The view from the front row - has anyone ever tried to remove Mr Reeves' glue...?
and the internals...
And now for the "VALVE-HEADS" department...
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/DR103%20SWITCH/hiwatthires031.jpg)
centre stage, so you can get the jigsaw right...
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/DR103%20SWITCH/hiwatthires017.jpg)
tag-board overview...
and "I'm ready for my close-up now, Mr DeMille..."
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/DR103%20SWITCH/hiwatthires030.jpg)
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/DR103%20SWITCH/hiwatthires029.jpg)
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/DR103%20SWITCH/hiwatthires028.jpg)
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/DR103%20SWITCH/hiwatthires027.jpg)
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/DR103%20SWITCH/hiwatthires026.jpg)
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/DR103%20SWITCH/hiwatthires025.jpg)
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/DR103%20SWITCH/hiwatthires024.jpg)
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/DR103%20SWITCH/hiwatthires023.jpg)
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/DR103%20SWITCH/hiwatthires022.jpg)
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/DR103%20SWITCH/hiwatthires020.jpg)
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/DR103%20SWITCH/hiwatthires013.jpg)
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/DR103%20SWITCH/hiwatthires015.jpg)
Stop drooling, it's most unbecoming...
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That is drool-worthy. A bygone era.
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Dave... Mark Huss advised me to replace the main capacitors (which are dated 1969), but the sound is soooo good... I even have some Mullards for the pre-amp stages which I keep meaning to fit - the present set came out of an even older Marshall; I'd be curious to try a brand-new set, just to see (hear) what the sound would be like...
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I understand... you don't want to risk possibly losing the sound by replacing them. But they don't last forever, sooner or later you will have to.
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I sincerely doubt that replacing a good quality cap with another good quality cap will affect the sound. All they do is store juice for demand. If I had any doubts about their remaining service life, they'd be out in a heartbeat. I didn't think twice about updating the caps in my 1967 BF Bassman. Much better than smoking the amp!
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Dave... Mark Huss advised me to replace the main capacitors (which are dated 1969), but the sound is soooo good...
Replacing the power supply filter caps shouldn't adversely affect the sound. This will just ensure that clean power is making its way to the other components, reducing the chance of their failure and unwanted noise/hum. Electrolytic caps (the ones in the metal cans) chemically break down with time, and power supply filter caps can really take a beating with spikes on the AC power line and such. The caps in the signal path that materially impact the sound - tone caps, etc... - are not as critical to service. I've been trying to work my way through preemptively replacing power supply caps on some of my old gear - keyboards, just did my space echo... Haven't done any high voltage stuff like that yet, though. Be careful in there! :o
Great photos!
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Shouldn't... but sometimes it's perceived as a difference.
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Impressive pics Kenny!
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Al and Joe... understood and willing to take the plunge...
Joe... 34 years of sparkying, 21 of those on regular voltages put up to 100 amps per phase on the bigger "flight" dishwashers (boring) but they sure went with a BANG when they did blow, and not vain enough to not be willing to take advice... ;)
As you command... :vader:
Rob... had to get the pics "just so" for the teckies over on the Plexi site when I first went "live", oh-so-long-ago... Mark Huss was most helpful and I assured him I'd give him "first refusal" if I ever "lost my marbles"... ;D
and Dave... Perception... such a mighty thing... weird, considering my attitude to my instruments... :o
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Shouldn't... but sometimes it's perceived as a difference.
The psycho-acoustics are always a factor. If we want something to sound "different" or "better" or "worse", chances are that we will perceive it that way - regardless of actual performance.
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Oh so true...
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Nice! And yeah, bringing you hear will haunt me for the rest of my life! ;)
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You just don't know what you unleashed, Chris... ;D
Good luck with the projects and looking forward to when you can dip in again...
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Yes, this thread is old but it remains a warning for that expression... the road to hell, etc...
I went to a rehearsal with a guitarist I worked with a while back that was trying out a drummer and a vocalist and needed someone he knew could just "slot in" and I thought it would be nice to take the beastie out for a workout...
Yes, half hour in she just faded out and stopped working...
I'm sure this is the power caps - curiously enough I have had the pages saved for the spares (easier to buy a "kit" of all the required caps on "your" side of the pond than here, 4 miles from where my amp was born in DR's garage... anyway, hopefully I can report a repair here a bit sooner that the rebuids on my RD and my Demetriou... :rolleyes:
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That sounds more like you've lost a cathode resistor somewhere in the preamp. Filter caps going south would give you major hum followed by blowing your main fuse, no puns intended.
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Cheers for that tip...
Mark Huss asked for a wiring diagram of mine when I had the time and I may start that during the strip-down - there are a couple of other minor (cosmetic) items that I'll get on with too...
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It could also be something as simple as a dead preamp tube. They DO wear out after a hundred thousand hours or so. ;) If you have some spares, swap and see. If your amp wasn't making any major funny noises before, regular use would have been helping old filter caps.
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Just got my new 1974 DR103 AP back from my guy yesterday. All new tubes, JJ's and 3 Bri-Mar and a Telefunken for the preamp!!! Can't wait to hear it!!
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Congrats...! I was suprised you chopped in your last one, but needs must - I've had mine since the mid seventies so she's part of the family...
It could also be something as simple as a dead preamp tube. They DO wear out after a hundred thousand hours or so. ;) If you have some spares, swap and see. If your amp wasn't making any major funny noises before, regular use would have been helping old filter caps.
Got a few... ;) No funny noises...
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/Valves/20090226valves2.jpg)
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AWESOME!!!
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There's a brand NOS set of ECC81's and 83's in that pile that I've been saving for a rainy day and the set that came out of my old SC120...
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Just keeping the Hiwatt momentum going............
rear view of my Dr201 Hiwatt 200 ex Noddy Holder of Slade from '76 (new) to '84 when they stopped touring, showing the mods that all of their Hiwatt heads had done.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/Maddogcole/Untitled-11.jpg)
It's a DR201S, meaning "special" but I can't think why because the mods were done (AFAIK) after it left the Hiwatt factory. Scott's ex-Dave Hill DR201 has identical mods but isn't marked as an "S".
Out of it's 6 caps, 4 are showing bulges of various sizes so it won't be fired up again until I have them done., possibly funded by the sale of the KT88s - if they test good.
Meanwhile - for you guys who like gut shots..........
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/Maddogcole/Nod_Guts_8791.jpg)
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The "S" used to represent the 50w/100w switchable variant that is used by Gilmour... have you got a pic of the front plate, Stu...?
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This is the clearest one I have for now, but I can take others if it helps. It's not switchable to the best of my knowledge and hasn't been mentioned as being so by two diff techs who worked on it.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/Maddogcole/Nod_amp_8189.jpg)
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Nope, that's the standard with the brilliant input pair - Mark Huss noted that it was a minefield when it came to the plates on some of his original items - have you registered your beastie on his site - you'll (possibly) get an idea from others from that era in the list that way...
The XLR's an obvious mod... the gut-shots are the true porn for the VA site; they go all dewey-eyed at them... ;)
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Yeah - it's up there, # 7370. Mark was fantastic in confirming for me (as much as was reasonably possible) that when another 201 modified in exactly the same was appeared that it must have been one of Slade's, even down to the green name tapes. Dave Hill later confirmed that ID when I met up with him - and finally that the S/Ns were fairly close together and would have been ordered as a batch of 9.
The guys on VHC and Plexi Palace have been great at helping out with advice re cap jobs; I didn't know what I was looking at.
eg.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v476/Maddogcole/Caps_LHS_bottom_8789.jpg)
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Mine's #831 - presently only a couple of miles from the garage the beastie was born in...
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/DR103%20SWITCH/20090810sick-amp7.jpg)
The caps are the project I should get on with first, but...
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I do miss my 1972 DR201...but...I got a Killer 1965 Thunderbird II through all of the trades...My 1974 Dr103 will do just fine!!! I have a 1973 SE4122 cab to match!!
ALL Hylight Hiwatts rule...Period.....I would love to get a Sound City L 100 someday...from say around 1968???
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Mine's #831 - presently only a couple of miles from the garage the beastie was born in...
Excellent! That's a fairly early one then?
But that's a 100 or a 50 in the pic, if I'm starting to learn Hiwatt recognition after all this time?
I do miss my 1972 DR201...but...I got a Killer 1965 Thunderbird II through all of the trades...My 1974 Dr103 will do just fine!!! I have a 1973 SE4122 cab to match!!
ALL Hylight Hiwatts rule...Period.....I would love to get a Sound City L 100 someday...from say around 1968???
I have a 4122 cab too ;D , it was recognised by it's speaker codes since it's spec plate was destroyed from 10 years+ of touring.
Sounds like you got a good deal with your trades, tho' it's strange how vintage gear prices ebb & flow over the years.
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Baz... the only constant in your life seems to be change... ;) btw my first valve amp was a SC120, possibly built by Dave Reeves...? now looong gone...
Stu... 1970 - mine's both - a switchable model... the plate says DR103 SWITCH; might be a one-off according to Mark Huss - Similar in function to the model used by Dave Gilmour but not in looks outwardly...
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Stu... 1970 - mine's both - a switchable model... the plate says DR103 SWITCH; might be a one-off according to Mark Huss - Similar in function to the model used by Dave Gilmour but not in looks outwardly...
Ah, so that's yours! I read about that, a cool function to have & amp to have. I'm surprised there weren't more of them, or none that's turned up yet.
I often muse as to how many of the MIAs on Mark's site are gone (one of Noddy Holder's 201s was scrapped after "blowing up" - that's all I know), or stuck in a barn somewhere or the owners aren't aware of the register.
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I bought mine (with a 4x12 Marshall slope cab and a tobacco SG special with a Bigsby) for £200 from a friend in the 70's - he bought it from someone that told him it was one of 6 built and this one belonged to a guitarist in Savoy Brown - only person I can think of could have been Lonesome Dave as Kim Simmonds was a through-and-through Marshall user - never found any live pics of them from that era so no way of even knowing - I know they were on a list of users back then - no provenance and not that bothered...
Operationally quite simple - instead of the paired normal and brilliant inputs there are just one of each - immediately to the right and between is a seperate jack socket that must be plugged in or she runs at 50w only - a simple wedge foot switch cuts or runs the two outer output valves which are permanantly running but only useable when "switched" on...
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Cool, does the switching have any effect on the life of the valves; apart from the obvious that if it's usually in 50w mode the two tubes will work more than the other two?
Do the two that are running but not working have a form of protection? (and I don't mean two gorillas with baseball bats) :mrgreen:
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This is a Gorilla free zone... (cheesy griller) :mrgreen:
Not that I've noticed - the present set of valves (pre and post) I err, borrowed from a brand new Marshall in 1979 (microphonic issues) and have lasted until now... I really should give them back some time...
As for protection/run-off that might be part of the reason MH wanted me to do him a wiring diagrem at some point, heavily overdue...
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it would be interesting to see if when you turn off 2 tubes it also changes the output transformer impedance.
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Cool, does the switching have any effect on the life of the valves; apart from the obvious that if it's usually in 50w mode the two tubes will work more than the other two?
It's possible to just lift the cathode grounds from corresponding power tubes, which leaves the plates still in the circuit, but the tubes are 'turned-off.' This means there are no issues with impedance. Trace Elliot, who borrowed more than a few Hiwatt production practices and parts suppliers, used this in some of their tube bass and power amps.
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When you switch-in the extra output there is no noticeable noise, clicks or sound other than volume change
it would be interesting to see if when you turn off 2 tubes it also changes the output transformer impedance.
Tony or PBG - which outputs and where to check and I'll let you know...
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It's possible to just lift the cathode grounds from corresponding power tubes, which leaves the plates still in the circuit, but the tubes are 'turned-off.' This means there are no issues with impedance. Trace Elliot, who borrowed more than a few Hiwatt production practices and parts suppliers, used this in some of their tube bass and power amps.
Thanks, I won't pretend to understand all of it - or have the need to. I've heard of a couple of guys installing their own "half-power" switch to a Hiwatt but got the impression it was something you had to decide which mode you'd be in before firing it up.
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I presume Gilmour's are the same - click/click/click/click/click - that simple.
I mostly worked in three piece or three + vox so used the boost when the guitarist solo'd and I tended to use chording to fill out the sound.
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When you switch-in the extra output there is no noticeable noise, clicks or sound other than volume change
Cathode lifting would be almost completely silent. There might be slight rise in plate voltage on a meter for the B+ since the overall plate current drops, but since the plates are still loading the OT, it's not like just pulling tubes.
which outputs and where to check and I'll let you know...
The lift would be on the ground to cathode resistor, the "input" of the power tube.
Thanks, I won't pretend to understand all of it - or have the need to. I've heard of a couple of guys installing their own "half-power" switch to a Hiwatt but got the impression it was something you had to decide which mode you'd be in before firing it up.
Just for paranoia, I'd do it in standby, but I've accidentally switched the power (it's a knob on the back next to the DI level knob) on my Trace a few times with no ill effects at all.
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yes that cathode lifting idea sounds pretty nifty,just make sure you dont lift the grid by accident.
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yes that cathode lifting idea sounds pretty nifty,just make sure you dont lift the grid by accident.
I recommended it to a buddy on Talkbass years ago as a way to tame the volume of his Mesa Bass 400+. Of course the usual "technical corrrection" from the f#cktard wannabe's over there ensued with all sorts of prognostications about output transfromers, the Mayan calandar, and why pubscent bass players kissing ass to company reps are the penultimate in technical experience, but he did it anyway and has been very happy with the results for many years now.
Even in a Hiwatt, you'd have a good five or ten seconds to yank the power before the tube plate went all nova, turned from a nice shade of red to orange and yellow and either melted a hole in the glass envelope or blew the mains fuse. The moral of the story is that if you don't know the difference between a supression grid and the cathode on a power tube's pinout, leave it alone.
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... The lift would be on the ground to cathode resistor, the "input" of the power tube.
Ta Maestro...
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Of course the usual "technical corrrection" from the f#cktard wannabe's over there ensued with all sorts of prognostications about output transfromers, the Mayan calandar
:mrgreen: PMSL; seen it so many times - and your description brings one poster (not here AFAIK) instantly to mind.
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I have an admission to make... I er... I bought a skirt today... not for my wife or daughter, but for me... well... for me, sort of... it's a Dress-Stewart tartan skirt... no... not a kilt... a skirt...
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Any clues yet...?
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/DR103%20SWITCH/DressStewart_zps6e12714c.jpg)
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you're going to recover your amp with said skirt.
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Give the man a Kewpie doll... :mrgreen:
A long time back I decided to recover the amp as it had become somewhat tired and shredded but when looked into the cost of tartan material it became somewhat cost-prohibitive, so it was very much on the back-burner, much like the required repairs and capacitor replacement that the beastie also needs as I don't intend to try to get back to regular playing until post relocation...
Anyway, we've been looking for storage solutions that are easily stackable and moveable for a bunch of stuff and suitcases are a good option if cheap, and a local charity drop-off point gets them on a regular basis, selling on for circa £2/$3 - bought six on Saturday, and there in the 99p rack was this huge tartan skirt, so...
Deconstructed it this morning and the resultant material may be just enough for the job - about 2m/yds by 600mm/18"...
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/DR103%20SWITCH/DressedStewart1_zps5da7c5b3.jpg)
Wrapped some of the material round to give it an idea of what it will look like... not sure what to do about the replacement piping or its colour...
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Hey Ken, depending on how bad the tolex is... one trick I've done before is to scrub it down, glue it down where needed (I used Weldwood contact adhesive), and then I used that rubberized spray on undercoating (for vehicles) to fill in any gaps where the tolex had ripped. I'd spray that stuff on a piece of cardboard and use a scalpel to spread it into the voids. Not perfect, but it made it "presentable" again without a lot of effort :)
Once it was all done, I used the black stain from a leather furniture repair kit to blacken the entire enclosure (applied via a sponge) and then sealed it with a water-based clear sealer (came in the kit, but I've seen similar stuff at the hardware stores).
This was for a circa '76 Oberheim synth that I restored a few years ago. It would have been pain to recover this, but it came out nice and has held up well.
(http://www.hillscloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/DSCF0001-1024x768.jpg)
(http://www.hillscloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/DSCF0007-1024x768.jpg)
(http://www.hillscloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/DSCF0003-1024x768.jpg)
(http://www.hillscloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/DSCF0295-1024x768.jpg)
(http://www.hillscloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/DSCF0010-1024x768.jpg)
(http://www.hillscloud.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/DSCF0013-1024x768.jpg)
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/synth/oberheim_fvs/DSC02162a.jpg)
All that said, I like the idea! I've seen some other British valve amps covered in the the union jack... never tartan.
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Great! i like it.
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Nice repair work, Joe, but mine's past that point... If you look at the front it was reversed in the 80's as the front had become too ugly to work with and it was a real pig to remove the old glue DR had used (this was one of his garage-built beasties) and no one knows what sort of glue he used and it just seems to be reluctant to come off the timber - the remains of the damaged back is in the shed - I need to cut a replacement piece for that and the mesh is gone due to a previous shed leak I was unaware of until too late...
I have seen a tartan Marshall stack themed to the guitarist's Clan once - predominately red and green but can't remember name...
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Went down the shed earlier this evening and somewhat surprised to report that the mesh, albeit somewhat corroded, is still on the back plate, but the wood has had it... hadn't looked at it for a few years...
I'm going to try and remove what's left of the tolex as intact as I can to figure out the pattern for the tartan...
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Kenny, why don't you ask Mr Huss if it will fit one of their Hi-Tone head boxes? You have the nameplate, and the chassis looks worthy of a re-housing in terms of value... I had my '72 rehabbed last year and I bought the cap kit from Hi-Tone. Well worth the investment - the amp is an absolute hammer!
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Billy... Mark's asked for first refusal if I was ever silly enough to sell the beastie, but I'd like to resurrect what I've got rather than a full replacement... Hi Tone "can-not" supply capacitors to the UK... not sure if there are transportation issues but that's what their website has said for some years now, since Mark Huss suggested the replacement when he helped me age mine... all the present caps are dated '69, hence requirement to replace them... I've got to sell some of the debris round here before I go to any significant repair expense (hence the MAG300) prior to our relocation... my deal with SWMBO... ;)
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If you can get a good variac, you could attempt to re-form the caps. It's a very long and painstaking process, but not much actual work is involved, and if any of the caps have ruptured or just gone beyond saving, it can't fix them. It's easy, just time intensive and won't hurt anything by trying.
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I haven't seen a variac in decades... someone mentioned that but I'd already just switched her on after a long layoff when I started gigging again about six years back and that meant, so I was told, too late now, and it was presumed they were okay for now, but that was then...
I'll source a UK supplier when I can and just replace them, and check those pre-amp valves like you suggested a while back, but probably not until I've relocated...
I'm not looking for a gig until re-settled so I don't see a rush... the "Highlandification" of the beast is just circumstances and availability of material...
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hi , if you decide to replace the valves, colomor valves might be worth a look if you want n.o.s. exact replacements.i got some mullard el84s for my vox from them a few years back(must have been before 1998 when i moved over there)and they are still going strong.from memory i think they are somewhere around london because i got my brother to ride down there from golders green on his motorbike to pick them up.nothing about caps is stirring in the sludge of my memory though.
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I haven't seen a variac in decades... someone mentioned that but I'd already just switched her on after a long layoff when I started gigging again about six years back and that meant, so I was told, too late now, and it was presumed they were okay for now, but that was then...
That's actually a sign that they were healthy then if you didn't get any hums or noises. It makes no difference now. If you spend a little time watching eBay and know to search "autoformer, voltage regulator, variable transformer," etc, you can score one for very cheap. Even good quality new ones are fairly inexpensive.
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Noted Boss... ;)