The Last Bass Outpost

Gear Discussion Forums => Fender Basses => Topic started by: Denis on August 06, 2009, 01:18:10 PM

Title: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Denis on August 06, 2009, 01:18:10 PM: Think this is worth it? I suspect so, at least in the long run.

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/msg/1308788828.html
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Dave W on August 06, 2009, 04:03:31 PM: If it's what it claims to be and really doesn't have neck problems and you're willing to refinish the body yourself, then yes. IMHO it really needs more than "a few minor fixes" to make it worth your investment.
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: ilan on August 07, 2009, 08:21:40 AM: Let's see. The neck and tuners are worth $500 on eBay if the neck isn't warped. Pickup $180-200, bridge $50, body should be at least $250, neck plate with '73 serial number $150.

BUT: The body has the thumb rest holes on the E side, so it's '74 or later, not '73 as the seller claims. If the neck plate is '73, this could be a parts bass.
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Denis on August 07, 2009, 08:25:16 AM: Cool, thanks for the info. I'm going to look at it this after work, so I'll let you know. I should have called and gotten the serial number, but the neck has to come off to check the body for dates, right?
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: ilan on August 07, 2009, 09:30:35 AM: Dating the body could be tricky. There are no date stamps in 70's Fender bodies. It's a post-74 body for sure.

There should be an 8 digit neck code stamped at the heel. The year is the 7th digit (3=1973). It should start with 0103 (P bass, fretted maple neck), then 2 digits for the week code, next digit is the year, and the last digit is day of the week. So if it's a '73 neck, the neck stamp should be 0103XX3X.
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: rahock on August 07, 2009, 10:03:01 AM: Boy, my 70P is in a whole lot better shape than that 73 :o
Rick
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Denis on August 07, 2009, 12:27:10 PM: Quote from: ilan on August 07, 2009, 09:30:35 AM
Dating the body could be tricky. There are no date stamps in 70's Fender bodies. It's a post-74 body for sure.

There should be an 8 digit neck code stamped at the heel. The year is the 7th digit (3=1973). It should start with 0103 (P bass, fretted maple neck), then 2 digits for the week code, next digit is the year, and the last digit is day of the week. So if it's a '73 neck, the neck stamp should be 0103XX3X.

Thanks, I will be sure to check the numbers. During lunch I was trying to hunt up pics of '73s and '74s so I could compare them (for now and for my own knowledge), but couldn't really tell the difference. What are some other differences between those two years? Some of the '73s I saw which were allegedly original had the thumbrests in the same place as this one, but I assume it would be an easy add.
Thanks!
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Denis on August 08, 2009, 04:37:15 AM: Well, I brought it home and not for what he wanted. :)
Haven't taken the neck off to see what's stamped on the heel but with the number on the plate, the position of the drill holes for the thumb rest, etc. I'm pretty sure that it is a '72. The number on the neckplate is 361052. The poor thing has definitely seen a ROUGH life, but I think it will be worth it in the end.

(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/bigtreebluesea/DSC05431a.jpg)

(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/bigtreebluesea/DSC05434a.jpg)

(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/bigtreebluesea/DSC05435a.jpg)

(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/bigtreebluesea/DSC05437a.jpg)

(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/bigtreebluesea/DSC05438a.jpg)

(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/bigtreebluesea/DSC05430a.jpg)
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: godofthunder on August 08, 2009, 05:26:12 AM: I like that alot ! I have a '73-'74 black with maple. I'd just put a new guard on her and call the job done ! Cool bass ! The headstock on these have laqeuer on the face while the back of the neck is shot in poly, that is why the face of the headstock is so amber in color, it has aged over time.(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/74pbass003.jpg)
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Pilgrim on August 08, 2009, 08:23:31 AM: Although I'm not a fan of relics, I tend to agree - put a PG on it and play it. Looks like well earned wear to me.

But I do think it's worth a look in the neck pocket to see what you see. Markings or stamps in there might be very helpful.

My knowledge on details isn't that great - but IIRC Fender moved the tugbar from the G to the E side around 73/74. There don't appear to be any screw holes on the G side, which might mean a later build date. However, we all know that Fender is inconsistent in details like that.
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Dave W on August 08, 2009, 08:36:49 AM: Unless you strip it and find plugged holes for a finger rest on the treble side, I'll agree with Ilan that it has to be a 74 or later body, regardless of the serial number on the neck plate or pot date codes.
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: godofthunder on August 08, 2009, 12:07:34 PM: So I must ask what did you bring her home for ?
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Denis on August 08, 2009, 12:37:25 PM: The number on the heel is 01031334 and has a name stamped on it, either A or S ARMENTA. Same name on the pocket.
It appears to be a crappy brush paint over the original laquer on a natural finish body as there is no sign of other paint. I'd leave it black except for it's really soft and kind of gooey in some places. The guy at the shop said he wouldn't worry about a fret job.

Dave, when I strip off the black I'll send pics of the cleaned up body.

GoT, I brought it home for $650.
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: godofthunder on August 08, 2009, 12:59:47 PM: Great deal, nice bass ! Finish how ever you like !
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Denis on August 08, 2009, 01:43:30 PM: Thanks, man, I appreciate it!
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Dave W on August 08, 2009, 03:41:17 PM: That means the neck was made in the 13th week of 1973.

Could be a natural finish, could be another color that was stripped. I think you did very well for $650.
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: ilan on August 09, 2009, 01:08:48 AM: Quote from: Dave W on August 08, 2009, 03:41:17 PM
That means the neck was made in the 13th week of 1973
On a Thursday, which means the neck was finished on March 29, 1973.

So you have what looks like a 1974+ body, a March '73 neck and a '72 neck plate. Even if it is a period-correct parts bass, that was a very good deal - and let's not forget that in essence, all Fenders are parts basses. Or it could have been assembled this way at the factory using 2 year old parts, I wouldn't rule that out, stranger things have happened at Fender in the 70's. You will know more after you strip the body and see if there are plugged tug bar screw holes on the treble side, like Dave wrote.

Did you look under the pickup halves? The stamps there should give more clues.

Congrats on the new bass!
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Denis on August 09, 2009, 07:09:39 AM: Quote from: godofthunder on August 08, 2009, 05:26:12 AM
I like that alot ! I have a '73-'74 black with maple. I'd just put a new guard on her and call the job done ! Cool bass ! The headstock on these have laqeuer on the face while the back of the neck is shot in poly, that is why the face of the headstock is so amber in color, it has aged over time.(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/74pbass003.jpg)

Forgot to mention it earlier, but yours is gorgeous!
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Dave W on August 09, 2009, 07:53:32 AM: Parts of an instrument definitely could hang around the factory for awhile. I had a 77 Tele Bass (77 serial number on headstock) which had a 73 neck stamp. From the s/n, it couldn't have left the factory before 77. It also had 73 pot date codes (1 meg pots).

No particular reason to think yours is a parts bass, a 72 s/n neck plate on a bass with a neck made in 73 isn't unusual at all, and who knows, you may find plugged screw holes when you strip it.
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Denis on August 09, 2009, 08:21:36 AM: Okay, I've been using naptha on the crappy house paint on the body and here it is so far. The naptha is taking a lot of work but it's not raising the grain and I might be able to save a lot of. the original clear finish. Circled Area A looks like the thumbrest holes. Circled Area B appears to contain 2 pickguard screw holes. Would this indicate it's a '73 or later body? There are no plugged holes below the G string where earlier models had the thumb rest.

The pot numbers are: 03236 250K-A 137-7405.

(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/bigtreebluesea/DSC05451b.jpg)
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: ilan on August 09, 2009, 09:03:09 AM: '74+ body IME. Control cavity route shape and size is also 73+. What is the total weight of the bass?
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Pilgrim on August 09, 2009, 01:09:40 PM: I agree, there don't appear to be holes for a tugbar on the G side.
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Hornisse on August 09, 2009, 01:25:59 PM: A great score for $650! I love the tone of those 70's P basses with Maple necks.
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Dave W on August 09, 2009, 08:28:29 PM: Pots are 5th week of 1974. Body is post-73 as Ilan noted. Despite the 72 s/n and the 73 neck manufacture date, I see no reason to assume this is a parts bass. It's just the way this parts combination happened to get put together in 74. Nothing wrong with that. You got a deal at 650. Refin, play, enjoy.
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: nofi on August 10, 2009, 05:03:12 AM: i had a few pre 75's and none of them had the routing for the p/u wires. ???
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: ilan on August 10, 2009, 05:47:26 AM: That routing appeared in '73 or '74 IIRC.
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Denis on August 10, 2009, 02:51:19 PM: So I've found some original P-bass pickguards. Are the the '70s pgs with the thumb rest above the E string interchangeable?
Thanks!
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Dave W on August 10, 2009, 08:59:47 PM: I'm not sure. Keep in mind that even Fender-made replacement guards from the same year don't always fit perfectly. Sometimes a little modification is necessary.
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: ilan on August 10, 2009, 10:16:29 PM: Quote from: Denis on August 10, 2009, 02:51:19 PM
So I've found some original P-bass pickguards. Are the the '70s pgs with the thumb rest above the E string interchangeable?
Thanks!
IME they are. You are talking about the ones with the extra screw hole in the center, right?
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Denis on August 11, 2009, 03:35:50 AM: Hmm, not sure,
Here's one of them I was looking at: http://cgi.ebay.com/1977-Fender-precision-bass-pick-guard_W0QQitemZ390077942594QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar?hash=item5ad2750b42&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14#ht_2522wt_1143

I did dig up an earlier thread concerning OEM Fender pgs which are not exact replacements, and that's one reason I was thinking about trying out an original one. Thoughts?
Thanks!
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Dave W on August 11, 2009, 08:07:42 AM: $129 for a 77 p/g? :o I wouldn't even consider it. I'd get someone like Chandler (http://pickguards.us/) to make a replacement or take my chances with a current OEM replacement.
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: ilan on August 11, 2009, 11:42:42 AM: Bass parts resource have nice 70's hole pattern P bass pickguards (post '73, with the thumb rest on the bass side) for $30. That's what I use for restoration projects. The holes line up very well except for the two pickup cover screw holes. But you can still install the cover.

http://www.basspartsresource.com/bpickguard_pre70.htm
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: hollowbody on August 11, 2009, 07:40:08 PM: I bought a current Fender pickguard for my 74/75 Precision. I had to drill a few extra holes but overall it lined up reasonably well. The only thing I don't like about it is the cutaway for the truss adjustment. I thought that gouging out the pickguard yourself to make adjustments on the fly was a major part of attaining mojo...
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Denis on August 14, 2009, 06:58:55 PM: Here it is so far! I'm happy! Next up, Harry's Guitar Shop for a set up, electronics check, etc.

(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/bigtreebluesea/DSC05454a.jpg)
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Dave W on August 14, 2009, 08:50:05 PM: That looks much better!

What pickguard did you get?
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Highlander on August 15, 2009, 01:47:27 AM: Wow... what a diference a little effort can make... A*
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Pilgrim on August 15, 2009, 05:11:41 PM: When you play that P through the Sunn head and a 2x12 or 2x15 cab, I predict you will be a happy man. Just practice saying "peace, love, weed"....and " Like, wow, man!"...they come with the period.
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: godofthunder on August 16, 2009, 12:09:56 PM: Looks killer !
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Highlander on August 16, 2009, 12:15:34 PM: All that bare wood crying out for a refin.... :o

Yeah, I know, I'm a heathen... ;D
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Dave W on August 16, 2009, 09:15:05 PM: Ken, he's going to refin, it just won't look like one of yours. ;D
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: ilan on August 17, 2009, 04:04:35 AM: Between stripped and refin'ed, I'd go with stripped. Tinted clearcoat and you're done.

Awesome deal BTW.
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: nofi on August 17, 2009, 06:21:32 AM: on this bass i would prefer no refin. i like the worked hard look.
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Highlander on August 17, 2009, 08:04:05 AM: Dave (and Denis)... I'd be quite disturbed if there was anyone else as disturbed as moi, here... :o :mrgreen: :o

Mind you, quite seriously Denis, I think that natural look is quite...

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Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Dave W on August 17, 2009, 08:14:45 AM: I don't mean that he needs to color it, I think he's planning on keeping it natural. But bare wood? No, it needs at least the protection of a clear finish.
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Highlander on August 17, 2009, 08:19:44 AM: DYNO-ROD ORANGE...!!!!! :o
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Denis on August 17, 2009, 10:10:59 AM: Happy Monday, everyone! Thanks, I appreciate the comments! I believe I was able to leave almost all the original clear finish (laquer, I guess) on the body without stripping it, so I'm going to try and leave it as is. It looks like the body was actually in pretty good shape, THEN it was painted black, THEN it was beat to hell. When I stripped it, I found that the black paint was pounded down into the wood at the bottom of every dent and almost impossible to remove unless I used varnish remover and a sander and there was NO WAY I was going to do that to the old girl. If I have to clear coat it in the end to protect the wood though, I'll do it.

If I was ever going to paint it though, it would have been Mocha Brown like this one.
http://www.grouseguitars.com.au/fender74pbassbrown.htm

I bit the bullet and went with a '78 pickguard I found and whoo hoo!, all the holes lined up AND it came with all the little screws. Thinking about putting flatwounds on it, getting some weed and a paisley shirt next...
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Dave W on August 17, 2009, 10:22:35 AM: Glad that pickguard worked out for you.

If you ever decide to refin it in Poo -- I mean, Mocha Brown, scroll down to the "Fender Telecaster Bass transformation" thread.
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Highlander on August 18, 2009, 10:12:19 AM: So Denis, all's well that ends well...

Now, if you ever need advice on fancy, original, one-of-a-kind refins... :mrgreen:

Next, we need a gig report... 8)
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: nofi on August 19, 2009, 05:16:09 PM: turd burst. you will learn grasshopper.

btw that picture looks way better than the real thing. ;)
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Denis on September 30, 2009, 10:32:16 AM: All finished!

All the electronics were fine and the shop was able to use all the original wiring, pots, etc. They put flatwounds on it for me and the old girl sounds friggin' terrific! It's got a nice boomy sound but with the maple neck doesn't sound muted in spite of that. The neck feels thick so I wonder which of the sizes it is. I'll measure the nut tonight and see.

After the Thunderbirds and the BaCHbird, the P-bass form feels strange but I can definitely see why they've pretty much dominated the bass market.

I'm happy as hell with it!

(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/bigtreebluesea/DSC05533a.jpg)
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Highlander on September 30, 2009, 10:48:48 AM: EXCELLENT...!
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Dave W on September 30, 2009, 11:09:03 AM: I'm glad it's working out for you.

The width at the nut doesn't tell the full story. Some of them aren't as wide as early Ps but they're thicker. As long as it's comfortable to you...
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Highlander on September 30, 2009, 12:28:30 PM: Dave... is there anywhere I can use to check Precision neck profiles and dimensions...? anyone on the site that knows...? gonna repeat this question in my PC rebuild thread as it is something I have been wanting to find out for some years, but...

Denis... when you gonna gig her...?
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Denis on September 30, 2009, 12:42:26 PM: Quote from: Kenny Five-O on September 30, 2009, 12:28:30 PM
Denis... when you gonna gig her...?

Haha, not for a while yet. I practice a lot and am still taking lessons but do have something in the works with an out-of-state buddy moving back here. Hey, I got a late start and have never been in a band. Let the tomato throwing begin! I'll be ducking though...
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Pilgrim on September 30, 2009, 12:47:46 PM: Nice to see you have the "standard" of basses in hand. Enjoy!
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Highlander on September 30, 2009, 02:33:21 PM: Quit the lessons, play from the heart, Denis... best tip I could give anyone in our field...

At the start of the seventies I was placed on a stool and had the neck of an acoustic placed against my left shoulder in a music lesson... first and last time... in '75 I acquired my first bass with my own wages, a Grenn semi, a copy of an EB2, and I just played along with my favourite records: Alice Cooper, Lynyrd Skynyrd, The Allman Brothers Band, Marshall Tucker, Black Oak Arkansas, Grand Funk Railroad, Deep Purple, Free & Bad Co, Mountain, and so on... I learnt a lot that way, and from a few books, most notably a book on James Jamerson, and from just practicing what I thought sounded good... I moved onto a lot of Duane Allman's sessions, and into R&B, and played more and more...

I've been told I play pretty well, but I'm not a "shredder"; If I listed my main influences, they would have to be Dennis Dunaway, Berry Oakley, Mel Schacher and Felix... and I'm probably of the "less is more" school, with a hint of Lemmy... ;)

Quit the lessons, play from the heart...

Oh yeah, and get playing with other musos, if at all possible better than yourself; make yourself stretch... the rewards will be better...
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: jmcgliss on September 30, 2009, 08:54:07 PM: I really like stories like this...new player with a pride and joy P-bass. That's a great start to the enjoyment of playing bass. Go forth and groove well.
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Chris P. on October 02, 2009, 10:08:40 AM: I missed this thread a bit, but cool story!
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Denis on October 05, 2009, 06:50:39 PM: Quote from: Kenny Five-O on September 30, 2009, 02:33:21 PM
Quit the lessons, play from the heart, Denis... best tip I could give anyone in our field...

At the start of the seventies I was placed on a stool and had the neck of an acoustic placed against my left shoulder in a music lesson... first and last time... in '75 I acquired my first bass with my own wages, a Grenn semi, a copy of an EB2, and I just played along with my favourite records: Alice Cooper, Lynyrd Skynyrd, The Allman Brothers Band, Marshall Tucker, Black Oak Arkansas, Grand Funk Railroad, Deep Purple, Free & Bad Co, Mountain, and so on... I learnt a lot that way, and from a few books, most notably a book on James Jamerson, and from just practicing what I thought sounded good... I moved onto a lot of Duane Allman's sessions, and into R&B, and played more and more...

I've been told I play pretty well, but I'm not a "shredder"; If I listed my main influences, they would have to be Dennis Dunaway, Berry Oakley, Mel Schacher and Felix... and I'm probably of the "less is more" school, with a hint of Lemmy... ;)

Quit the lessons, play from the heart...

Oh yeah, and get playing with other musos, if at all possible better than yourself; make yourself stretch... the rewards will be better...

Great story and inspiration! Thanks! And, uh, we must be about the same age. Heh.
Title: Re: '73 Fender Precision on CL
Post by: Highlander on October 06, 2009, 04:04:53 PM: You're welcome, Denis, and guess the age (clues in the name, hit it in June, with Scott shortly after me, and Seattle Mark just a little ahead of us...)

A site like this is friendly, with no pressure; there are amateurs and pros; collectors who play and players who collect; those that build, and those that wish too... we are all just passing through, and if we make people smile along the way, all the better... ;)