The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Other Bass Brands => Topic started by: Alanko on November 03, 2016, 05:36:23 AM
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Hello all,
I'm looking at a potential trade. A chap in the Netherlands is looking to trade a 3-pickup Godin Shifter for my Mustang bass, plus a bit of cash on my end. I'm a bit attached to my Mustang, but it isn't quite working with my band, and I now have a Mike Dirnt Precision on 'full size P-bass' duties. I like the Mustang's neck width at the nut, which is nominally the same as the Shifter, but I'm finding it a bit too delicate to play. Minimal re-positioning of the right hand makes all the difference from supporting the band to making a 'whacky' percussive racket...
The Godin is a long-scale bass, and has three-pickups. I've been experimenting with multi-pickup tones a bit, recently. Life is short and there is a dude out there who wants a Mustang, so should I go for it?
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Godin makes quality instruments but much of the time they don't float my boat personally. It does look like it's more interesting than the typical P copy fare; seems like an elongated body (like the Mustang, but maybe not as much) and a bit of Mosrite inspiration with the pickups.
I like the look of the Mustang a bit more (as well as the scale). It's only got the one pickup, sure, but if you dig that sound (not personally familiar), there's no need to go all Ace Frehley to the other extreme (I love my Triumph, but the bridge pup is effectively a wired in spare). If you don't, and this is a good trade (assuming reissue Mustang, a rather good one based on new retail price), then you could probably do worse, and there's gotta be a tone or 2 you're into on the Godin (of 6; 3 pups and a 2 position varitone switch - they really stress that on the product page, lol ).
(http://www.godinguitars.com/guitars/godinshifter5black.jpg) (http://www.godinguitars.com/guitars/godinshifter4cream.jpg)
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And it isn't me... :)
I would keep the 'Stang, although I like those basses. I reviewed a pus-coloured one with three pickups. I dislike the PJ one. Too normal.
The three-pickup shifter is quite a big bass and on the heavy side. Not a problem for me. A manly bass:) Good looking. The looks remind me a bit of those Peavey T-basses. Not pretty but impressive. The pickups are P90 style and in that way more P than J. You could see the middle pickup as a P-pickup, the bridge pickup J-ish (all in al a bit like a PJ or or more a P-double J). The neck pickup makes it versatile and special. Warm, growly and great sounding, also in combination with the middle one. Of course never Gibson-ish, but warm for great old school soul and ballads. A real under-appreciated bass and I hate it that they went the easy way to first make a PJ version and letting the good one dissappear.
Still I would chose for the Mustang, haha!
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Agreed; I wouldn't even consider a standard P/J version. This one is growing on me - might have to go see if anyone local has one, just to see.
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Not a fan of PJ basses at all, so only after the 3-pickup variant. I was disappointed by Godin's regressive policy of adopting the standard PJ configuration, but then again G&L and Music Man have gone down this route recently. More basses of all types need a pickup right down the end of the neck, period. Gibson and Rickenbacker got it right. ;)
I think I maybe worked myself up a bit about getting a Mustang. :mrgreen: In an ideal world I would have space and money for 'em all (aka doing a Uwe). I'm actually looking to buy a car in the next few months, so spare bass cash just isn't there.
It's a slightly odd turn of events, really. I traded a 2005 Mexican Precision bass for the Mike Dirnt bass. The Mexican bass is the reason I got the Mustang. Having now got the Dirnt, it doesn't really seem to be the scale length or nut width that bothered me about the Mexican bass, simply that the neck was surprisingly shallow, fret-to-skunk-stripe. The Dirnt neck is like a baseball bat, split down the middle. I thought it might be an issue, but it is surprisingly comfy and 'faster' than the Mex bass. My left hand wasn't digging the Mex neck but, if anything, the Mustang bass was a step too far the other way. For the first few weeks the Mustang cured all the ills of the Mexican Precision, but then I noticed that my right hand was getting cramped up, in part because of the lack of contouring and in part because the string spacing is narrower. Also, as mentioned before, right hand placement makes a lot of difference in a very small sphere of influence.
The odd thing is that I was way more certain about what I wanted in a bass five years ago, and now I'm starting to doubt everything.
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Godins are well made. I've played a 3-pickup Shifter two or three years ago, nothing awe inspiring about it but it sounded good and it's versatile so it might fit your needs. Their basses don't command high resale, at least over here, so be sure you're getting enough value for your Mustang.
Not a fan of PJ basses at all, so only after the 3-pickup variant. I was disappointed by Godin's regressive policy of adopting the standard PJ configuration, but then again G&L and Music Man have gone down this route recently. More basses of all types need a pickup right down the end of the neck, period. Gibson and Rickenbacker got it right. ;)
I think I maybe worked myself up a bit about getting a Mustang. :mrgreen: In an ideal world I would have space and money for 'em all (aka doing a Uwe). I'm actually looking to buy a car in the next few months, so spare bass cash just isn't there.
It's a slightly odd turn of events, really. I traded a 2005 Mexican Precision bass for the Mike Dirnt bass. The Mexican bass is the reason I got the Mustang. Having now got the Dirnt, it doesn't really seem to be the scale length or nut width that bothered me about the Mexican bass, simply that the neck was surprisingly shallow, fret-to-skunk-stripe. The Dirnt neck is like a baseball bat, split down the middle. I thought it might be an issue, but it is surprisingly comfy and 'faster' than the Mex bass. My left hand wasn't digging the Mex neck but, if anything, the Mustang bass was a step too far the other way. For the first few weeks the Mustang cured all the ills of the Mexican Precision, but then I noticed that my right hand was getting cramped up, in part because of the lack of contouring and in part because the string spacing is narrower. Also, as mentioned before, right hand placement makes a lot of difference in a very small sphere of influence.
The odd thing is that I was way more certain about what I wanted in a bass five years ago, and now I'm starting to doubt everything.
I hear you. My tastes in basses has changed over the years. You buy something and it works for a while then you discover something isn't quite right for what you need. Now I think I know, but it's taken me years.
FYI, G&L has been making the SB-2 (P/J) since the early 80s. I think they were doing it before Fender. The Musicman is new, and I predict it won't last long. Nothing wrong with a P/J but the world doesn't need more of it.
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Looks like the Godin is on, and the Mustang is going on holiday to the Netherlands. I know the previous owner wasn't the first, so I would love to see its journey on the map.
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Music Man have gone down this route recently
That's just... I can't even ... ugh, ugh, ugh.
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Whatever moves you. I've increasingly become a fan of short scale, and the necks on the Mustang/Bronco series fit me very well indeed. I love the fit, the light weight and the necks.
But ya gotta play what moves ya.
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That's just... I can't even ... ugh, ugh, ugh.
Here you go. Looks sort of like a P, sort of like a J, only much uglier than either. Street price $1699.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5AhTJ_uJIE
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Wow, that caprice bass have the outline of my '72 Aria Diamond 1820 (same as Epiphone ET-280).
Great work, musicman :sad:
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The only PJ bass I ever need:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Custom-Toilet-Seat-4-String-PJ-Bass-Guitar-w-Gig-Bag-Galveston-Neck-37324-/322315377091?hash=item4b0b7e59c3:g:e78AAOSwMVdYGkQM (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Custom-Toilet-Seat-4-String-PJ-Bass-Guitar-w-Gig-Bag-Galveston-Neck-37324-/322315377091?hash=item4b0b7e59c3:g:e78AAOSwMVdYGkQM)
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Here you go. Looks sort of like a P, sort of like a J, only much uglier than either. Street price $1699.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5AhTJ_uJIE
This is quickly becoming the "Post pics of ugly pickups" thread. :puke:
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And it isn't me... :)
I would keep the 'Stang, although I like those basses. I reviewed a pus-coloured one with three pickups. I dislike the PJ one. Too normal.
Still I would chose for the Mustang, haha!
Pus color is common in certain wards.
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I have no problem with P/J basses per se. (I own one!) But somehow it bothers me when a company that has long been associated with an iconic pickup design of their own goes that route.
What next? A Gibson P/J? A Rickenbacker P/J???
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I have no problem with P/J basses per se. (I own one!) But somehow it bothers me when a company that has long been associated with an iconic pickup design of their own goes that route.
What next? A Gibson P/J? A Rickenbacker P/J???
I doubt it. Gibson and Rickenbacker sales seem to be fine, but Musicman may be in decline, sorry to say. Gone are the days when most of their sales were basses. Now their sales are about 70% guitars (according to Sterling Ball), and they're trying various changes to increase sales. In the past few years they've added a neck-through Stingray and "classic" Rays and Sterlings (strung through body and with 7 1/4" FB radius), among others. I see the Caprice and the Cutlass (single P pickup - nothing like the original Cutlass) as another long shot.
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I have to agree with SlinkP. Nothing wrong with PJ, but I dislike the PJ Jaguar Basses (Fender did a better job with the Starcaster and Coronado Basses) and the fugly new Mustang. But yes... Too many brands use the PJs.
BTW: I used to have a non rev Epiphone Thunderbird... PJ...
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It's no secret that I have little love or use for a bridge pickup to begin with, but a J in bridge is the least useful thing to me. I don't mind a P - some good sounds there if not anything very unique.
The problem I have is when somebody (re)designs a new model, and just cops out of the thinking process after figuring the body shape and drops P/J in there instead of exploring the numerous other options. Agree about the Jag bass with Chris; just a damn shame, nice affordable bass, sounds OK I guess but looks so wrong.
I get it, they think it will increase sales because it's what people know (and like a Honda Civic, there's the most alt drop in replacement options of any other bass pup). And with a certain segment of the market, this is true, not sure on the numbers there, but even from the (not entirely unrandom) sample here, it is apparent that people do want some diversity - especially those that already have a few basses, including a few P/Js.
I am actually surprised that more makers don't offer various pup options like stock P/J for the vanilla/no weird shit types, and whatever else they find to really compliment the bass as another. I get that they assume it means different tooling for different routing patterns, but it's not too hard to imagine a scheme where a single routing pattern would work - e.g. if you square out a P route, there ain't a bass pup available short of a mudbucker that won't fit in there. That slight loss of extra wood won't really affect anything, and it's all under the pickguard. It would really be the Honda Civic of basses; people love 'mod platforms' - if you price it right (top end of affordable ish). There's a number of places that this sort of idea could be extrapolated to but become a bit more risky propositions in terms of major makers worrying about their brand integrity as offering more bare bones models means there's no consistency in result because you don't know what a dude will do with it. I do think that there is a place in the market for some up-market (higher quality, and accordingly price) competition with those cheap Chinese DIY kits (something partially complete, like finished but pup/hardware-less bass that can be priced more affordably than their turn key equivalent), but that ain't likely.
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Gibson and Rickenbacker sales seem to be fine, but Musicman may be in decline, sorry to say. Gone are the days when most of their sales were basses. Now their sales are about 70% guitars (according to Sterling Ball), and they're trying various changes to increase sales. In the past few years they've added a neck-through Stingray and "classic" Rays and Sterlings (strung through body and with 7 1/4" FB radius), among others. I see the Caprice and the Cutlass (single P pickup - nothing like the original Cutlass) as another long shot.
I was a longtime owner of EBMM Stingray 5 and Sterling 5 basses and loved them but over time I sold mine off for various reasons. I'd love to own another one but the prices are through the roof and I won't pay that kind of money for one. So unless I happen upon a good used one in the configuration I want (HH & Rosewood) or they drop their prices (which I know they won't do) I'll continue on using my Schecter and Ibanez 5-string basses as my go to instruments. I believe that I've bought my last 4 string bass. Photos to come on this very unusual bass.
TD
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How about a PPJ Rickenbacker bass? 8)
(http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo224/krleese/Bass%20Stuff/Ric%20project/GEDC0118m-1.jpg)
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Well, at least they put the correct half of the P pups closer to the neck ;P
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My Godin Shifter arrived yesterday! Definitely a case queen, with very little wear or marks. Quite an idiosyncratic beast; the roundover on the body hasn't been buffed the same as the rest of the body, for example. Quite a chunky neck, like a Jazz bass neck in width but with more meat in the hand. Less of a radius on the neck than I anticipated. It came with rounds fitted, possibly the originals from the factory given the quality and consistency of the wrap on the pegs, but I will fit some Jim Dunlop flatwounds once I've set it all up, cleaned it all up etc.
I'm considering re-wiring the switch. At the moment the switch is configured to give you the bridge, bridge + middle, middle, neck+bridge and neck + middle options. If you pull the tone control then you solo the neck pickup, but only on position 5. I would rewire it like David Gilmour's Stratocaster, with the push/pull activating the neck (or bridge) pickup in all settings. This gives you seven combinations, including all three pickups!
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That's a little unexpected - all the Godins I have ever held (quite a number - they're Canadian and came out around the time I started being in bands in high school) were very well finished.
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Well it might just be filth. :mrgreen: I've not spent a lot of time with the bass, but I will be taking it apart for a good clean tonight.
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I've started stripping the bass down. The pickups have the Godin logo on the top, but they are in fact manufactured by G&B, who also make pickups for the lesser PRS instruments. The bridge pickup is hotter than the middle, which is hotter than the neck.
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I've never seen any Godin that wasn't fully buffed. If it's not dirt, maybe it was acid perspiration from a previous owner. Or one could have escaped the QC inspector.
IIRC most Godins have a 12" FB radius.
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I've attached a couple photos to describe the only real issues I've encountered with this bass.
(http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o720/Alanko/image3_zpse8wbl3uh.jpg)
This photo shows the unbuffed area of the body, which is just the roundover on the top of the body in the treble cutaway. The finish is otherwise expertly applied on the body. The white stuff is a reflection of the overhead light.
(http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o720/Alanko/image2_zpslytari6k.jpg)
The second photo shows the ground wire! There are rumours on other forums that these basses don't have ground wires running to the bridge. They do, and they don't! From photos I viewed online I thought that these basses had a substantial 2tek-style bridge that runs through the body. It doesn't! The bridge is simply a Gotoh 201 copy, drilled for both top-loading and through-body stringing. If you opt for through-body stringing then the ball ends are retained by a brass plate, which screws to the body at each end (as per the photo). The ground wire runs to this plate! Godin advertise the fact that you can use both stringing configurations, but if you opt for top-loading then there is no connection between the ground wire at the brass plate and the bridge, and thus the strings are ungrounded.
(http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o720/Alanko/image1_zps97yotabq.jpg)
Wee bit orange-peely.
(http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o720/Alanko/image4_zpsmuz3sh1l.jpg)
This is fun! Two neck plates! Apparently Godin formulated this to remove the risk of a ski-jump forming.
I feel like I spend all of my time ripping on basses rather than enjoying them, but I'm simply outlining a few issues I found with an otherwise well manufactured and robust instrument. :mrgreen:
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Some of that is rather disappointing, I must say.
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The buffing issue is a little surprising. The orange peel on the neck is a little disappointing, but the finish is quite thin on the neck anyway. The ground wire issue is a little surprising. For example, if you used strings with painted ballends then the strings wouldn't be grounded! I'm tempted to run a second ground wire to the bridge itself.
I'm rewiring the bass like a Strat, without any additional switching. The idea of having a push/pull is cool, but I just didn't like the feel of it in the end.
While Godin claim the pickups are "3x Passive single-coil alnico pickups with low-pull x-tra large magnets", I disagree! These pickups have a fair quantity of pull. Listening to the few Youtube videos of these basses, there is some fret buzz. My bass came with a wee bit of roundwound chew on the frets, so I dressed them myself. The frets were pretty perfectly level from the factory, so why the buzz? Those pickups pull a fair bit more than their name implies! Every fret had a consistent peach-fuzz edge to the tone. Turns out it was wolf tones from the pull of the pickups, and once I backed off the pickups these disappeared.
My bass is black with a maple neck, and is the four string version. It looks like the four only really sold in volume in sunburst with a rosewood neck and Mary Kaye blonde with a maple neck. I'm wondering if mine was an early or demo model? There was one like mine at NAMM in 2011.
(http://godinguitars.com/namm11/winter_namm_11_v25.jpg)
This one is like mine: https://reverb.com/ca/item/2165846-godin-shifter-4-string-bass-guitar-black (https://reverb.com/ca/item/2165846-godin-shifter-4-string-bass-guitar-black)
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Nice. It looks good in black.
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That unbuffed ares is really odd. Never seen that before. Odd about the string ground too.
I don't understand the logic behind separate neck plates. AFAIK ski jump necks are a "feature" of traditional style truss rods, not how the neck is secured.
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I don't think Godin really understood the reasons behind ski-jumping in necks, and figured that an extra pair of screws would get the job done! this neck could still potentially ski-jump. :mrgreen:
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I'm tempted to run a second ground wire to the bridge itself.
If I did that, I would be inclined to clip the original wire too, to reduce the chance of creating a ground loop.
I have heard conflicting things about whether ground loops in guitar wiring cause any actual problems -
but as long as you're in there, it couldn't hurt to be prudent.
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That unbuffed ares is really odd. Never seen that before. Odd about the string ground too.
I don't understand the logic behind separate neck plates. AFAIK ski jump necks are a "feature" of traditional style truss rods, not how the neck is secured.
From what I understand ski jump is not relief (excessive or othwerwise) which is the slight bow in the neck you want for optimal playability, but rather an upward rise in the last few frets upon which the truss rod has no effect.
As such I suppose it is possible that 2 plates and 2 extra screws could have some effect on it; dunno.
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Presumably ski-jump necks tend to have headstock-end trussrod adjusters?
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From what I understand ski jump is not relief (excessive or othwerwise) which is the slight bow in the neck you want for optimal playability, but rather an upward rise in the last few frets upon which the truss rod has no effect.
As such I suppose it is possible that 2 plates and 2 extra screws could have some effect on it; dunno.
An explanation: http://hazeguitars.com/blog/s-shaped-guitar-neck
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Yeah, that doesn't disagree with what I said.
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Yeah, that doesn't disagree with what I said.
What he's saying -- and other repair people say -- is that it has to do with the way the traditional truss rod works. Extra screws are fine for more contact but I've never read of any repairmen saying it will prevent neck humps. The double-type rod supposedly prevents this since it works a different way.
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So... I've drilled a bridge ground wire channel. I drilled down into the area under the bridge, then drilled in the direction of the generously proportioned control cavity. No dice! I had to drill a second hole in the direction of the bridge pickup route. I thought my drill bits were long enough, but apparently they aren't. I will fill the first hole...
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What he's saying -- and other repair people say -- is that it has to do with the way the traditional truss rod works. Extra screws are fine for more contact but I've never read of any repairmen saying it will prevent neck humps. The double-type rod supposedly prevents this since it works a different way.
OK, but neither did I say it would help (I gave a distinct "dunno") and you said ski jumps were a "feature" of truss rods, which implies desirability vs a problem or side effect. Sorry, not trying to be snippy, but clarifying.