http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/showbiz/robin-williams-dead/
He was one of my favorite actors. I may have laughed at his wit more than anyone else I can think of. But somehow I am not surprised by this and I really can't say why.
I'm stunned that somebody who was so popular for so long would be that unhappy.
It's sad. He was quite talented.
Sad news indeed. Depression is a deadly disease.
RIP
A great actor. Very sad news. RIP
Very Sad :sad: RIP Robin
Rick
I agree Dave. Mental illness is so hard to understand. Blessings to his family.
There is often so much behind the artistic urge that people can't see. Kim Novak once said that it was easy for her to pick the messed up roles because she understood them so well. Normal was out of her range. On hearing this news about Robin Williams, I couldn't help but think that his role in Insomnia may have been more him than we knew.
I'm not surprised at all. Unfortunately. In all his roles - the most blatant comedies included - his characters always had a streak of incurable sadness that went beyond melancholy. That is something he did not act, it was in him (as it was in Charly Chaplin). It's what made him special and not another screwball actor. Among his most brilliant roles was that rather late piece of work (and probably a career killer too, most of his audience didn't want to see him like that) where he played that guy in a super market photo shop who so much falls in love with a young family he starts wanting to play God when they are on the brink of separating. That character was both creepy and touching in his search for perfection. Jacob, the Liar was another great film of his (actually a remake of an East German movie from the late seventies).
If you had asked me for one Hollywood actor who is a severe depressive say a year ago, I would have named him. I'm surprised this didn't happen any earlier, the way he had shut himself off from everyone in the last decade.
Great loss and tragedy. Depression is vicious.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETy5j5NoDUw
I can't believe anyone would try to make a joke about this. Who is Richard Herring? I have never heard of him. Not funny, offensive. If this is humor, then please count me out.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/richard-herring-offends-with-illtimed-twitter-joke-about-robin-williams-character-and-moans-about-pofaced-social-media-9664617.html
I never did get my rainbow-braces; in the days before the internet you just could not find them here... :sad:
A long held obsession of mine that (sort of) - I used to regularly gig with a rainbow-coloured guitar strap
Quote from: Dave W on August 11, 2014, 09:44:44 PM
I'm stunned that somebody who was so popular for so long would be that unhappy.
Dave and Uwe, et al...
I have often pondered the comedian (including "The Comedian" - "It's all a joke..."), somewhat like the clown (who likes a clown in the dark?), forced to be the happy one but what lurks beneath...? Somewhat like the shark that must continue to swim or die... one of the UK's most revered funny-men, Billy Connolly, had a most tragic and awful childhood... The demons that they must have... RW just did not stop... the periods of silence must have been so frightening...
RW and BC were/are my favourite humourists, up there with the Pythons at their very best...
For that brilliant bright white-hot light that was Robin Williams, I will paraphrase...
The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long, and you burned so very, very brightly, Robin...rip, now you have found it...
Quote from: westen44 on August 12, 2014, 04:48:09 PM
I can't believe anyone would try to make a joke about this. Who is Richard Herring? I have never heard of him. Not funny, offensive. If this is humor, then please count me out.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/richard-herring-offends-with-illtimed-twitter-joke-about-robin-williams-character-and-moans-about-pofaced-social-media-9664617.html
Let's not get carried away. I don't think that Robin W. himself, on one of his better days, would have minded a caustic remark like that.
You can regret someone's death or even be saddened by it and still make a joke. It's in us, it's like a conjuring of the unspeakable, eternal fear of death. A friend of mine lost her sister last year in a freak sports plane crash. She was loved by everyone, but when they were at the undertaker and he started describing a graveyard row as a "second-best" position, the husband in deep grief said:
"My wife and second-best? That's not her at all, we take first row!" And the son, who deals in real estate, quipped:
"Location, location, location, man!!!" Everyone cracked up.
The story gets even better: The plane crash happened a week before my friend's (and the deceased's) mother's birthday. And as the old lady was already alzheimering badly, the whole family conspires not to tell her about the tragic death of her older daughter who simply doesn't show up at her mother's birthday. The old lady doesn't seem to notice. A couple of weeks later, my friend is guilt-ridden for having done that, and when visiting her mother starts probing if she hadn't missed her older daughter at her birthday, ready to 'fess up. Yet the old lady, totally puzzled, goes,
"What do you mean, "not there", your sister was standing behind me all the time smiling, didn't you see her?!" My friend kept the (family) secret. And her mother died a few weeks later, peacefully.
Ahhh...the Pythons....
Who, with great love and affection, placed Graham Chapman's "ashes" on the chair for their reunion, accused him of being a slacker and then knocked him on the floor. Everyone has trouble. Everyone has darkness. My mother suffered from mental illness. She was institutionalized 4 times as I grew up, for 6 months each time. I was relieved when she passed away. She brought so much pain to those around her. Still, she was my mother. We remember what people brought in life, both good and bad. Through many artists suffering, comes great joy and inspiration to others.
I've never heard of Richard Herring, but there have always been jokes about any public tragedy or tragedy involving a public figure. It's a way of release. I remember Teddy Kennedy Chappaquiddick jokes and no doubt it goes back much further.
Was it a little too soon for Herring's joke? Maybe, but it's not unusual. You name a tragedy, the jokes start coming right away. Gilbert Gottfried's Japanese tsunami jokes, JFK Jr. plane crash jokes, even Space Shuttle Challenger jokes. It always happens.
Quote from: Dave W on August 13, 2014, 10:21:09 AM
I've never heard of Richard Herring, but there have always been jokes about any public tragedy or tragedy involving a public figure. It's a way of release. I remember Teddy Kennedy Chappaquiddick jokes and no doubt it goes back much further.
Was it a little too soon for Herring's joke? Maybe, but it's not unusual. You name a tragedy, the jokes start coming right away. Gilbert Gottfried's Japanese tsunami jokes, JFK Jr. plane crash jokes, even Space Shuttle Challenger jokes. It always happens.
What kind of wood doesn't float?
Quote from: gweimer on August 13, 2014, 10:41:10 AM
What kind of wood doesn't float?
You're sure that's not a porn joke...? :rolleyes:
Quote from: uwe on August 13, 2014, 07:55:30 AM
Let's not get carried away. I don't think that Robin W. himself, on one of his better days, would have minded a caustic remark like that.
You can regret someone's death or even be saddened by it and still make a joke. It's in us, it's like a conjuring of the unspeakable, eternal fear of death. A friend of mine lost her sister last year in a freak sports plane crash. She was loved by everyone, but when they were at the undertaker and he started describing a graveyard row as a "second-best" position, the husband in deep grief said: "My wife and second-best? That's not her at all, we take first row!" And the son, who deals in real estate, quipped: "Location, location, location, man!!!" Everyone cracked up.
The story gets even better: The plane crash happened a week before my friend's (and the deceased's) mother's birthday. And as the old lady was already alzheimering badly, the whole family conspires not to tell her about the tragic death of her older daughter who simply doesn't show up at her mother's birthday. The old lady doesn't seem to notice. A couple of weeks later, my friend is guilt-ridden for having done that, and when visiting her mother starts probing if she hadn't missed her older daughter at her birthday, ready to 'fess up. Yet the old lady, totally puzzled, goes, "What do you mean, "not there", your sister was standing behind me all the time smiling, didn't you see her?!"
My friend kept the (family) secret. And her mother died a few weeks later, peacefully.
I'm not saying that humor can't even be used at all during a tragic situation. It was even on this board that someone once accused me of being a Nazi for going along with some humor someone was using here to comment on a tragedy. However, I do feel suicide can fall into somewhat of unique category. People seem to be prone to make inappropriate comments sometimes and can even become judgmental. After seeing some of the other things a few celebrities have said, Herring's comments are beginning to look mild. I didn't find them funny myself and didn't find any of the other supposedly humorous comments to be of any value either that have been made about Robin Williams. Once again, it's the judgmental aspect of all this that I most object to, not the principle itself of trying to use humor sometimes as a way of release during a tragedy. But comments in bad taste can also be unnecessary and add nothing.
Quote from: gweimer on August 13, 2014, 10:41:10 AM
What kind of wood doesn't float?
I have no idea. You'd have to ask Robert Wagner or Christopher Walken.
Quote from: Dave W on August 13, 2014, 11:09:26 AM
I have no idea. You'd have to ask Robert Wagner or Christopher Walken.
:mrgreen:
Quote from: Dave W on August 13, 2014, 11:09:26 AM
I have no idea. You'd have to ask Robert Wagner or Christopher Walken.
THAT might be a record 8)
Quote from: westen44 on August 13, 2014, 10:52:10 AM
I'm not saying that humor can't even be used at all during a tragic situation. It was even on this board that someone once accused me of being a Nazi for going along with some humor someone was using here to comment on a tragedy. However, I do feel suicide can fall into somewhat of unique category. People seem to be prone to make inappropriate comments sometimes and can even become judgmental. After seeing some of the other things a few celebrities have said, Herring's comments are beginning to look mild. I didn't find them funny myself and didn't find any of the other supposedly humorous comments to be of any value either that have been made about Robin Williams. Once again, it's the judgmental aspect of all this that I most object to, not the principle itself of trying to use humor sometimes as a way of release during a tragedy. But comments in bad taste can also be unnecessary and add nothing.
I'll give you that Herring's joke wasn't a great one. From what German media writes, Williams is missed as a great actor, the papers are full with benevolent obituaries. Celebrity suicides due to depression are nothing new here, we've had two soccer stars do it comparatively recently.
Quote from: uwe on August 14, 2014, 05:06:18 AM
I'll give you that Herring's joke wasn't a great one. From what German media writes, Williams is missed as a great actor, the papers are full with benevolent obituaries. Celebrity suicides due to depression are nothing new here, we've had two soccer stars do it comparatively recently.
After encountering way worse comments every day, Herring's joke is looking almost innocuous now. But these harsher comments are usually made by insensitive people who really don't care one way or another. I doubt if Herring falls into that category.
Depression is no laughing matter. You can have the worst terminal disease in the world and still have moments of joy, knowing fully well that it'll all end soon, but if your body/brain is unable to generate those agents that help us in even in moments of greatest despair, you're in deep and hopeless shit. Have decades of that - without prospect of it ever changing - and I can understand why people succumb though I'm generally an anti-suicide guy. But I always found that you could see it in William's gaze, he was never a happy person. Cracking jokes and being happy/content are two vastly different things.
Quote from: uwe on August 14, 2014, 10:36:55 AM
Depression is no laughing matter. You can have the worst terminal disease in the world and still have moments of joy, knowing fully well that it'll all end soon, but if your body/brain is unable to generate those agents that help us in even in moments of greatest despair, you're in deep and hopeless shit. Have decades of that - without prospect of it ever changing - and I can understand why people succumb though I'm generally an anti-suicide guy. But I always found that you could see it in William's gaze, he was never a happy person. Cracking jokes and being happy/content are two vastly different things.
My problem is with people who are insensitive and callous about it all. I'm talking about people who condemn the person, call him selfish, a coward, etc. Obviously, a person saying those things has absolutely no idea what it feels like to be hopelessly depressed. They're acting as if it could all be stopped through sheer will power. That's just not the way it works. Anyone acting in such a callous way is displaying an obvious lack of understanding on the matter. I'm also very anti-suicide. But my heart goes out to people like Robin Williams. He was living in a hell on earth that most people cannot imagine.
Edit:
Now it's being revealed Robin Williams had been diagnosed with Parkinson's disease.
This is pretty pathetic: Robin Williams' daughter Zelda driven off Twitter by vicious trolls (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2014/08/13/robin-williamss-daughter-zelda-driven-off-twitter-by-vicious-trolls/?tid=pm_lifestyle_pop)
Natalie Wood know the answer...
And make that a seven-up with that Teachers...
The internet can bring out the lynch mob in everyone. Disgusting.
Quote from: uwe on August 15, 2014, 07:07:51 AM
The internet can bring out the lynch mob in everyone. Disgusting.
Unfortunately all it takes are a very few vile people to spoil things..
vile is a good word for it.
We have several people in the family, past and present, that have lived with depression, and had two suicides (alcohol and methadone) within the last decade...
The problem with the net is the impossibility to truly censor it, and the unwillingness to do it, all in the name of freedom of speech...
As for "trolls" and the freedom to "hide" behind a false name...
I know Uwe is very pro "rights", and rightly so, but there is a place to draw a line...
yeah, that pesky old freedom of speech thing can be a bitch.
Now when I think about the movie "What Dreams May Come," of course I have to look at it from a different perspective, considering its subject content. I thought both Robin Williams and Annabella Sciorra were superb in this. I liked Robin Williams as a stand-up comedian and in dramatic roles such as this one. The one movie I didn't like was "Mrs. Doubtfire," not that that was his fault. I just disliked everything about the movie, especially Sally Field's role which was very annoying. Whatever the target audience was for that movie, I must not have been part of it.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/11/robin-williams-spirituality_n_5670268.html?ir=Religion
Quote from: Highlander on August 16, 2014, 06:29:38 PM
We have several people in the family, past and present, that have lived with depression, and had two suicides (alcohol and methadone) within the last decade...
The problem with the net is the impossibility to truly censor it, and the unwillingness to do it, all in the name of freedom of speech...
As for "trolls" and the freedom to "hide" behind a false name...
I know Uwe is very pro "rights", and rightly so, but there is a place to draw a line...
Quote from: nofi on August 17, 2014, 08:22:57 AM
yeah, that pesky old freedom of speech thing can be a bitch.
Without the ability to be anonymous, free speech can't exist. As Tom says, it's a pesky thing. Website owners can censor all they want on their own sites, but when governments start dictating rules based on who has a right not to be offended (or for any other reason) then no one's rights are safe.
The joys of the double-edged sword...
Letterman was on vacation when Robin Williams died. Last night was his first night back and he did a nice tribute along with some footage.
David Letterman Remembers Robin Williams (http://www.cbs.com/shows/late_show/video/911C5863-C292-1822-E8AF-EBB8FBCCB91D/david-letterman-remembers-robin-williams/)
Blocked in the UK, unfortunately...
Quote from: Highlander on August 16, 2014, 06:29:38 PM
We have several people in the family, past and present, that have lived with depression, and had two suicides (alcohol and methadone) within the last decade...
The problem with the net is the impossibility to truly censor it, and the unwillingness to do it, all in the name of freedom of speech...
As for "trolls" and the freedom to "hide" behind a false name...
I know Uwe is very pro "rights", and rightly so, but there is a place to draw a line...
Naw, Uwe is a
Sozialdemokrat, but he is probably a lot less pro-"rights" than a lot of our US members here who are more conservative than I as regards state interventionism etc . To me, there are limits. I wouldn't, say, allow people parading in Nazi uniforms through a Jewish neighborhood. Or Klansmen through a black neighborhood. The hobby-Nazis and hoodies can hold their demonstration at a quarry or some such like. And if a government refuses "events" like that, I don't think it's the end of freedom of speech.
I personally don't hide behind monikers in the internet, but I wouldn't go as far as to force everyone to do that.
In Germany, the statement "no jews were gassed in Auschwitz" uttered in public is a criminal felony and can get you into jail. It's a restriction of freedom of speech I can live with just fine. Not every vile thing warrants protection.
So I'm more the "freedom of speech, yes - within reason" type. Which opens a real can of worms from a libertarian point of view, I know.
alleged libertarians around here end to fall on the republican side when push comes to shove. the party that wants to control everything, not much 'liberty' there. i site ex radio talk show asshat neil boortz as a prime example.
Quote from: nofi on August 20, 2014, 07:53:08 AM
alleged libertarians around here end to fall on the republican side when push comes to shove. the party that wants to control everything, not much 'liberty' there. i site ex radio talk show asshat neil boortz as a prime example.
The truth is that "when push comes to shove", there are elements on both sides that want to control things - just not the
same things.
Let's just be clear here - both "sides" are interested in the same thing... Lining their pockets. Don't be fooled. The "two party system" is a sham.
If the discussion is going to veer into naming specific parties, philosophies, and viewpoints it's probably best if it ends here. We have a lot of differing views in our group and are able to get along just fine discussing what we have in common. I think it's best if we leave it there. This isn't a politics forum and that's what works here.
Quote from: OldManC on August 20, 2014, 02:20:19 PM
If the discussion is going to veer into naming specific parties, philosophies, and viewpoints it's probably best if it ends here. We have a lot of differing views in our group and are able to get along just fine discussing what we have in common. I think it's best if we leave it there. This isn't a politics forum and that's what works here.
Agree
Agreed - no need tog et into those sidetracks.
More on the original topic: it seems to me that genius in many artistic fields is often a neighbor of mental distress or illness. Great musicians, actors and artists of other types often seem to exhibit a tendency to be a bit "off the rails" or to struggle with things like addictive behaviors. The immensely talented Danny Gatton was another suicide mourned by many.
Maybe that's why I've never been destined to be a great musician! I'm basically pretty boring and even keel. :o
I still can't view the Letterman show... ;)
Quote from: lowend1 on August 20, 2014, 08:31:36 AM
The truth is that "when push comes to shove", there are elements on both sides that want to control things - just not the same things.
That is a comment of elucidating depth.
Humans, by their very nature, tend to fall - and rather quickly - into thinking that their side has all the right answers. There was an old Star Trek episode where Captain Kirk was split into two separate beings by a malfunctioning transporter. One Kirk was brutal, aggressive and completely bereft of conscience, the other was empathetic, compassionate and introspective. The short story is that neither one could survive without the existence of the other.
As I always suspected, the answer to all the world's problems is William Shatner...
Quote from: Highlander on August 21, 2014, 12:32:15 AM
I still can't view the Letterman show... ;)
It's now on YT, hopefully not blocked for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bVgilYncao
It's that line...
"... Hey! Good Will Hunting, way to go! Good Will Hunting, Academy Award, way to go; then two weeks later it's hey Mork! How are ya...?"
Sums up (the pain in?) his life in a sentence...
Cheers Dave...