I saw one too many Genz-Benz Shuttle 6.2 heads advertised at excellent prices. Then I had to listen to Ed Friedland's review and demo of the 6.2 and its voicing. I really liked what I heard.
I bought this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/221271101782?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
(http://www.genzbenz.com/pics/models/Shuttle-6.2-Head_sm.jpg)
And I can sell my Shuttle 6.0 for close enough to what the 6.2 cost me that I won't get hurt much. I just figure that the time is now, before the Shuttle 6.2 heads that are new-old stock disappear after Fender bought Genz-Benz.
I'll be listing my Shuttle 6.0 soon!
Wow. Weren't these about $700-800 not that long ago?
Yeah but it seems like a lot of sellers are dropping the prices to blow them out since Fender is killing off GB.
Congrats on the new amp!!!
Quote from: Dave W on February 04, 2014, 08:34:14 PM
Wow. Weren't these about $700-800 not that long ago?
Exactly. At that price I can afford to make a switch!
Very, very cool. Congrats!
Congrats on the new 6.2 ;D. I'll be sticking with my good ole 6.0, but I have thought about doing the same thing. I gotta say , I love that little Genz Benz more than anything I have ever owned. It kills me that Fender bought them just to burn them. They made a lot of nice stuff and flew just under the radar so there weren't a whole lot of them around. My first encounter with Genz Benz was a few years back playing some electric acoustic stuff. A buddy of mine showed up with a single 12 guitar amp one night and it simply blew away everyone elses gear, that included a couple of Fenders and a Carvin. At the time I thought that they specialized in acoustic amplification. I later learned that they simply made good stuff ;D.
I'm really sorry to see them go away :sad:.
Rick
If you know anyone who wants a 6.0 with less than 40 hours on it, send them my way. I'm working up an Ebay ad and I'm debating putting a reserve in the $250-$275 range on it. It's already on TB at $290.
Genz Benz was bought by Kaman in 2003 and Fender bought Kaman's music division in 2007. Over 6 years later, I don't think it's fair to say they bought it to burn it. Kaman sold its music division because it was a drag on corporate profits. You had to know Fender was going to make changes over time.
If these amps have been profitable for FMIC, then it's likely you'll see them again under a different name.
Quote from: Dave W on February 06, 2014, 12:04:28 PM
If these amps have been profitable for FMIC, then it's likely you'll see them again under a different name.
How is SWR doing? ;)
Quote from: Psycho Bass Guy on February 06, 2014, 05:05:02 PM
How is SWR doing? ;)
I'd guess about the same as Sunn, Genz Benz, Tacoma and Hamer. ;)
I never understood Kamen's involvement in MI anyway. Post 9/11, being a defense contractor is a license to print money but GB under their ownership finally seemed to be the only switching amp maker to find the correct balance between value and quality. Back to Kamen: their support for QC for Trace Elliot back in the day followed their governmental product support model, IOW, let the product 'sort itself out.' That's why many thought that Gibson buying Trace was going to be good for them.
Quote from: Psycho Bass Guy on February 06, 2014, 06:11:11 PM
I never understood Kamen's involvement in MI anyway. Post 9/11, being a defense contractor is a license to print money but GB under their ownership finally seemed to be the only switching amp maker to find the correct balance between value and quality. Back to Kamen: their support for QC for Trace Elliot back in the day followed their governmental product support model, IOW, let the product 'sort itself out.' That's why many thought that Gibson buying Trace was going to be good for them.
Years ago (way before 9/11) I saw a 60 Minutes feature on Charles Kaman. He was fascinated with finding a way to improve acoustic guitar sound, and it all grew from there. He could afford it so he did it. I wonder how disappointed he was that Ovation never got the respect he thought it deserved.
Ovation Magnum bass. Remember them? Developed in the mid 70's by Kaman. At the time probably the most advanced production bass in the market, whether the Mag I or the active Mag II. A beast of a bass and still to this day the massive pickup in the neck position probably holds the title for being the 'lowest' down. Listen to anything from the mid 90's onward by Jah Wobble to attest to that.
REO Speedealer's bass player used a Magnum II when I saw them in 2000. He wasn't in the PA, and they were kinda boring. (REO Speedwagon sued them and they had to drop the "REO" from their name later.) They opened. That was the same show with the Supersuckers second billed and Nashville Pussy AND Motorhead co-headlining: six hours of rock awesomeness!
I have the Applause AE-40, acoustic/electric which is really same as Ovation with the deep bowl back and composite body but without the fan headstock. Nice bass, good for practice if nothing else.
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/Applause_Bass_WS-2_in_case-1.jpg)
The Shuttle 6.0 is sold, showing that folks on TB can recognize a good amp when they find it.
Quote from: Pilgrim on February 07, 2014, 10:35:20 PM
The Shuttle 6.0 is sold, showing that folks on TB can recognize a good amp when they find it.
But apparently not the benefits of the latest model (upgrades, warranty, IMPROVED KNOBS, shiny newness, 800 paypal points) vs the slight differential in price. I took the plunge for the 6.2, figure I can recoup most of the cost if I don't like it. I'm blaming you, Al!
It's a bit off topic, but I found this video on Youtube from that very concert where Speedealer played with the Ovation Magnum. You can even tell why I, from front stage right, thought that Eddie Spaghetti's Les Paul Standard Bass was green (for years until I saw them again) due to the lights. There's no date, but having been at that show, I can tell you for certain that this IS from it; that's certainly the Tabernacle in Atlanta and that's also quite a few years ago. The resolution is too low to see if I could see myself in the front row, but I'm going to get in touch with the guy who put that up on YT and see where that video came from and maybe find clips of the Ovation. Speedealer played before the Supersuckers. The audio is obviously board-sourced, and it was/is top notch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHqirlqHA1k
BTW, all the pro camera work, board audio and jib boom shots are because Motorhead was shooting b-roll for their "God Save the Queen" video, which I am happy to say, features me for about 1/10 of a second.
good tune. they remind me of a tighter dash rip rock.
I like the Supersuckers clip!
I had a Magnum-I for several years. I always enjoyed Ovation's quirky looks (Breadwinner, Deacon, Viper, etc...), and thought the early Mags were lookers. Pretty innovative for its time, what with the graphite+maho neck. There was one graphite beam outwardly visible on the back of the neck, and (if I recall correctly) two flanking it inside of the neck.
Fit and finish were excellent, it felt like a tank, and the structure was beyond rigid. Mine arrived very poorly setup, and it took me weeks to get the neck relief dialed in - that sucker just would not budge! Once it was there, however, it played great. I do use a mute from time to time for certain sounds, and thought they had one of the better mute designs in the Mags - activated via a slide lever protruding from the bridge assembly.
It could get REALLY bright sounding, despite all the maho. Not really my kind of sound, but I tried to like it. The neck pickup looks massive, but it's actually comprised of four small individual coils staggered under each string, with trimpots to adjust individual string levels. Very narrow field on that one! (not great for a "bendy" player like myself). The bridge pickup was a humbucker with two coils side-by-side (one under E&A, the other on D&G).
Overall, it's sound sorta reminded me of something like jazz bass meets 4001 - but much more sterile than either. I always speculated that may have been due to the graphite and over-the-top rigidity of the thing, but this is the only composite-content bass I've ever played. I know with Wobble and Laswell using them, Mags tend to get associated with that genre... but I'm tellin' ya - an EB-0/1/2/3 or Guild with the 70's 'buckers would blow one of these into tomorrow, in terms of low end. Maybe equalization on the Mag-II compensates for some of the inherent anemia?
Anyway, just my impressions. I enjoyed getting the chance to experience the Mag.
What was this thread about again? ;D Oh yeah- congrats on the Genz! I remember those being quite a bit more $ when I was looking, and ended up with the GK.
Quote from: dadagoboi on February 08, 2014, 04:46:17 AM
But apparently not the benefits of the latest model (upgrades, warranty, IMPROVED KNOBS, shiny newness, 800 paypal points) vs the slight differential in price. I took the plunge for the 6.2, figure I can recoup most of the cost if I don't like it. I'm blaming you, Al!
Rahock and I can both assure you that you are going to be a VERY HAPPY GUY with that amp. Mine should be here Monday and I'm already impatient.
And yes, I think you (and I) could turn them around for about what we paid. Those won't last long at the price.
I do hope that Fender brings the G-B Shuttle or ShuttleMax line back out in the future. It could easily be positioned as a new, lightweight line of Fender amps, and that's a gap in their product lineup now.
My Shuttle 6.0 is the only amp I've ever had that I like more the longer I play it. Everything else I've ever owned seems to show its' little shortcomings as time goes on. You still like it ,but you see things that you didn't see when you first got it. Too much of this, or too little of that, but it's still OK. With the Shuttle, everything I want and like just keeps showing up every time I play it. That's a first ;D.
Rick
Quote from: rahock on February 09, 2014, 05:34:34 AM
My Shuttle 6.0 is the only amp I've ever had that I like more the longer I play it. Everything else I've ever owned seems to show its' little shortcomings as time goes on. You still like it ,but you see things that you didn't see when you first got it. Too much of this, or too little of that, but it's still OK. With the Shuttle, everything I want and like just keeps showing up every time I play it. That's a first ;D.
Rick
The Shuttle has at least one fewer tube than anything I play now and the benchmark is my '64 B-15. Volume is not the criterion for me, transparency is. Not into distortion or pedals. So I'm easy to please. ;D
Definitely looking forward to hearing the Shuttle with my various cabinets!
The biggest thing with the Shuttle is that it is so adjustable. Every amp has a couple of knobs that you turn to make it do different stuff. Some do too much, some do too little, some do stuff that no one would even want :o. The Shuttle is very adjustable. Even the high and low boost is kind of subtle. At first I thought the boosts were a bit too weak , but once I played it with the rest of the band, I realized it was just right. Everything else I had ever played either did nothing , or more common, blew you off your feet . All the controls are in increments that make sense to me. The foot switch is a must for me .
Rick
Quote from: rahock on February 09, 2014, 08:40:06 AM
The biggest thing with the Shuttle is that it is so adjustable. Every amp has a couple of knobs that you turn to make it do different stuff. Some do too much, some do too little, some do stuff that no one would even want :o. The Shuttle is very adjustable. Even the high and low boost is kind of subtle. At first I thought the boosts were a bit too weak , but once I played it with the rest of the band, I realized it was just right. Everything else I had ever played either did nothing , or more common, blew you off your feet . All the controls are in increments that make sense to me. The foot switch is a must for me .
Rick
Sounds like what I'm looking for!
Mine's arriving Thursday. :)
It's JUUUUUUST about time for me to head home and see if it's there! :o
Hope so.
Dangit. From the UPS site:
"As requested by the sender, UPS has transferred this shipment to the local post office for delivery to the final destination."
"PACKAGE TRANSFERRED TO LOCAL POST OFFICE. ALLOW FOR 1 TO 2 ADDITIONAL DAYS FOR DELIVERY."
I didn't even know that UPS could be routed through the local post office.
It's new trend that the Post Office contracts out final delivery for both Fed Ex and UPS. It's one of the "cheap" shipping options and one more way for them to cut costs. It's becoming more and more common the post office drivers handle final delivery so they're not paying their own driver and delivery trucks.
Almost all the smaller size shipments I've ordered in the last year have come via Fedex Smartpost or the UPS equivalent. Takes an extra day over direct delivery but still arrives on or before the seller's estimated date.
It's here! UPS got it done - one day after the original projected date. That's not too bad.
I'm playing around with it but won't get a chance to work it out much until later this evening.
Congrats ;D. I'm sure it's going to work out fine, but I still want to hear every detail. I doubt that I will ever see one, unless I buy one too.
Rick
Rick, I got a little more time to play with it last night. So far I'm very happy.
I'm playing though two cabs which are both first series Shuttle gear...a single 12T and a 210T. (I used to have a pair of 12T cabs but for some reason decided that I wanted the 210 more, so I sold the second 12 and bought a used 210.)
I've been playing at moderate volume, generally with the tube gain up about 3:00 to 4:00, the tube volume maxed out (I generally leave it there) and the master gain not much past 9:00 (2 or 3 out of 10).
What I think I hear is a fuller bottom end. I've played with the tube gain and rolled it back and bit and the clean signal is still there, but by turning up the tube gain, the tube drive is perhaps a bit grittier in the 6.2. I like that. The manual says "The Gain structure is set in such a way that using the control beyond the 3 o'clock position will provide dramatic increase in tube overdrive." I think this is actually similar to the 6.0.
Where I come out is that for a $100 difference between what I paid for the 6.2 and what I sold my 6.0 for, it's worth it. If I were spending much more than that, I don't think I'd do it. But I don't have access to big-time cabs like the Benz Ubers, and I suspect that with somewhat larger cabs any differences might be more immediately obvious.
Since my band is currently practicing very occasionally (due to one member's working on an oil exploration ship 50% of the time for the past few months) I won't get a chance to work it at band practice for a few weeks. Fortunately our traveling member is finishing his work gig and we should be able to get together more often around the end of March.
That's Cool 8). Not a big surprise. I have become a big fan of anything Genz Benz has . I'm not familiar with a lot of their gear, but everything I've encountered has been outstanding. Even reading reviews on line for the stuff I've never seen has been impressive. Nothing but favorable comments and stuff like "best amp I've ever owned". The only guitar amp that I've heard is one of their Acoustic guitar single 12" combos, and it was probably the best acoustic amp I've ever heard. It's really a shame if they disappear :sad:.
Rick
You know how one thing leads to another...?
Now I discover that there's a second series of Shuttle cabs with light colored metal grilles. Supposed to be stronger low end as well.
But the first series 12T and 210T cabs sound so good that I think I can resist the temptation to start trading cabs as well. I don't think I'm missing much at this point.
Mine just arrived, UPS to USPS to me.
Big Question: What comprises an 'original sales receipt' these days?
Quote from: dadagoboi on February 14, 2014, 10:41:13 AM
Mine just arrived, UPS to USPS to me.
Big Question: What comprises an 'original sales receipt' these days?
I'd save whatever I had, including the original emails confirming purchase. I often print those out and store with with the owner's manual - which I file in an expanding file by product type. I have one file specifically for Musical Instruments.
Quote from: dadagoboi on February 14, 2014, 10:41:13 AM
Mine just arrived, UPS to USPS to me.
Big Question: What comprises an 'original sales receipt' these days?
Quote from: Pilgrim on February 14, 2014, 06:12:32 PM
I'd save whatever I had, including the original emails confirming purchase. I often print those out and store with with the owner's manual - which I file in an expanding file by product type. I have one file specifically for Musical Instruments.
I don't even print 'em out, I just save the emails as a pdf (with a virtual printer). You can always print that out if you ever need to. And if you paid by Paypal you can always get a receipt.
Only time I ever needed a hard copy is when the motor on the vac I bought online fizzled out during the warranty period. I just printed out the Paypal receipt that showed the purchase date. No problem.
Thanks, Al and Dave. I emailed the seller just to see what the response will be.
As far as the amp, it's a keeper. Sounds great flat, it's quiet and powerful. Tone controls are easy to work with. I'm sure I can get a good sound with any decent cabinet. Right now it's pushing a '67 all plywood B-15 cab with an 8 ohm Eminence legend rated at 300 watts. Haven't tried it with other cabs yet.
Congrats ;D. You said it all, You will get a good sound out of any decent cabinet. I have a single 15" Eminence cab too, that sounds really nice. I really like it through my 2 12" Eminence w/ tweeter Avatar Cab which is rated at 500 watts. I've been a diehard 15" guy since I started , but these newer 12 " neos have turned me their way. For me, 12s are the new 15s ;).
Rick
Quote from: dadagoboi on February 15, 2014, 05:30:58 AM
Thanks, Al and Dave. I emailed the seller just to see what the response will be.
As far as the amp, it's a keeper. Sounds great flat, it's quiet and powerful. Tone controls are easy to work with. I'm sure I can get a good sound with any decent cabinet. Right now it's pushing a '67 all plywood B-15 cab with an 8 ohm Eminence legend rated at 300 watts. Haven't tried it with other cabs yet.
Glad the first impression is good - it will continue. That cab sounds like a great pairing. I agree with Rahock's comment - it will sound great with any decent cab. It will be fun to experiment with it. Don't be afraid to push that preamp as hard as you feel like - it may turn on some lights, but that's all within its design.
Out of curiosity, I checked the website for the amp seller, Geartree.com.
There's a fair amount of Genz-Benz and other bass gear there, and it appears the prices match their Ebay offerings. Here's the Genz page:
http://www.geartree.com/m-969-genzbenz.aspx
Quote from: Pilgrim on February 16, 2014, 09:44:22 AM
Out of curiosity, I checked the website for the amp seller, Geartree.com.
There's a fair amount of Genz-Benz and other bass gear there, and it appears the prices match their Ebay offerings. Here's the Genz page:
http://www.geartree.com/m-969-genzbenz.aspx
Yeah, but no Streamliners! Loving the Shuttle but 2 more tubes and a Baxandall is definitely intriguing.
They emailed me an invoice, it's an .rtf file and looks legit...although I could probably make an invoice for everything I own using it as a template.
I've filled out my warranty card, looked up Geartree's physical address on their website, just thought I'd cross the T's and dot the i's.