So, now that I have an incoming NR II I have some questions about them. And yeah, I'm expecting (and hoping) Scott and Uwe to chime in on this one!
According to Jules site, the production breakdown is as follows:
1966= 361, 1967=0, 1968=67, 1969=7.
The current owner of mine says he couldn't locate the serial number. The bass has been painted an ugly red and he removed the paint on one portion to check for one.
IF there is no number for whatever reason, are there any other ways of identifying what year it is (I don't yet know what's on the pots)?
Did the body thickness vary between the years?
Where there any headstock differences?
Were the pups all located in the same place?
Any other information would be appreciated!
Thanks!
Serial numbers are stamped on the headstock and nowhere else that I know of. Bodies are very inconsistent in thickness and edge radius. My '68 that I have had forever has the thickest body and maybe a 1/4" radius on the edges, my '66s have a thinner body and a approximate 3/8" radius on the edge. Neck thickness can vary greatly. My '68 has a baseball bat of neck while both my '66s have a much slimmer profile. If there is no serial number stamped on the back it was sanded off and that would require removing a lot of material. The other possibility is that the headstock was replaced. I'll have to get my '69 out and make some comparisons.
Usual way to date a 60s bass if no serial number is the 7 digit pot code. The first 3 denote the manufacturer and the last four are year and week the pot was made. e.g. 1376624 would be CTS, 1966, 24th week.
I have a pair of '64 Tbirds, one has a very chunky neck and the other very slim. As Scott says, there is a lot of variation.
Quote from: Denis on January 31, 2014, 07:05:43 AM
According to Jules site, the production breakdown is as follows:
1966= 361, 1967=0, 1968=67, 1969=7.
Yes, but remember these are the shipping, not production figures - when guitars are selling well (eg the EB0 at this time) they pretty much shipped them as fast as they built them. When they were not selling well (eg NR tbirds) they may have sat around for months or even years. Do the 7 '69 Tbirds have '69 pots? I don't know for sure, and I actually suspect not...
Received more pics.
Rear pot.
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/bigtreebluesea/Rearpot_zpsdf31be4f.jpg) (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/bigtreebluesea/media/Rearpot_zpsdf31be4f.jpg.html)
Center pot (I think for the j pup installed at one time). Has numbers but I doubt it's original.
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/bigtreebluesea/Centerpot_zpse8d40104.jpg) (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/bigtreebluesea/media/Centerpot_zpse8d40104.jpg.html)
Forward pot. Has numbers, maybe original, maybe not.
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l111/bigtreebluesea/Forwardpot_zps7cb3a226.jpg) (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/bigtreebluesea/media/Forwardpot_zps7cb3a226.jpg.html)
Quote from: EvilLordJuju on January 31, 2014, 08:44:30 AM
Yes, but remember these are the shipping, not production figures - when guitars are selling well (eg the EB0 at this time) they pretty much shipped them as fast as they built them. When they were not selling well (eg NR tbirds) they may have sat around for months or even years. Do the 7 '69 Tbirds have '69 pots? I don't know for sure, and I actually suspect not...
Thanks for the clarification. Makes sense.
Also on FlyGuitars, even Glenn Cornick said his first NR was one of a bunch sitting around since new and he got his in 1971.
Center one says Dimarzio on it def. not original. I suppose I should check the pots on my birds.....................to be honest I was never that worked up about it. :-[
There was NOS sitting around for years, well into the 70's. I remember a bunch at the HOG.
so that looks like a 1980 centralab pot (1348016) and an original late '65 (week 52) - if original yours is a '66
Quote from: EvilLordJuju on January 31, 2014, 08:44:30 AM
Do the 7 '69 Tbirds have '69 pots? I don't know for sure, and I actually suspect not...
True, but lacking a serial number do you know a better way than using pot codes to get an approximate date? At the least they give you the earliest possible date the bass was produced.
If there was that much variation in certain aspects of these basses, then it's possible the serial number is on the headstock just not where he removed the paint. It could be up or down an inch and he would have missed it. We'll see.
Quote from: EvilLordJuju on January 31, 2014, 08:52:16 AM
so that looks like a 1980 centralab pot (1348016) and an original late '65 (week 52) - if original yours is a '66
Neat, thanks!
Quote from: godofthunder on January 31, 2014, 08:51:33 AM
There was NOS sitting around for years, well into the 70's. I remember a bunch at the HOG.
Ouch, don't you wish you'd bought a ton of them?
My first was the used '68 bought in '77 or '78 by '79 or '80 I did acquired a NOS Thunderbird II that I owned till about '06 and sold at the height of NR fever, wish I never sold it. Serial numbers on these are pretty consistent stamped upside down and centered under the backing plate of the tuners.
Quote from: dadagoboi on January 31, 2014, 08:54:45 AM
At the least they give you the earliest possible date the bass was produced.
well, again, it only gives an earliest date it was shipped. A bass can be assembled, and left in the factory without hardware... This didn't generally happen with EB0s and EB3s, but the obscure models, later EB0Fs for example often have a weird mix of parts from different years.
I have seen them with '65 pots and '66 pots - so far I have not seen any with '68 or '69 pots - but admittedly I haven't checked that many - Scott did yours have '68 pots?
A big change happened at Gibson in mid-late '66, Stan Rendell took over from Ted McCarty - he changed the Gibson's production system from one in which guitars were simply built, and hopefully sold, to one where guitars were built ONLY when ordered. The first non revs were built before his time - ie without any orders. We all know the stories of unsold Tbirds, so I doubt there were many orders coming in in '68 for them to build more...
It could be that they were all produced in '65 and '66, and slowly shipped, as required, potentially with hardware added in the year they were shipped?
Until a clearly later one comes up it's hard to be sure that there are indeed later ones...
Over the weekend I am going to check the pot dates on my five NRs and see what we have. Another idiosyncrasy of NRs is mixed chrome and nickle hardware.
Ok I couldn't stand it, just checked my '69. The vol. pot is dated 66 and the tone is obscured. The wiring is original.
My first NR I bought used in 1969. After the third time the headstock broke Gene Liberty added veneer to the back of the head obscuring the serial number without writing it down. I still had the receipt from when I bought it, but it just says Gibson Bass $90.
This is a bass I bought on eBay, broken. It was painted black, but I tried sanding where the serial number should be and found it.
(http://mojohobo.com/images/serno.jpg)
Quote from: godofthunder on January 31, 2014, 09:47:16 AM
Ok I couldn't stand it, just checked my '69. The vol. pot is dated 66 and the tone is obscured. The wiring is original.
Now that's interesting. Could be a replacement or it could be original and sat around until used when your bass was built or it could be that all the NRs were built in '66?
No, but Gibson could have bought pots by the thousands in '66 and it took a few years to use them all.
Quote from: the mojo hobo on February 02, 2014, 06:52:41 PM
No, but Gibson could have bought pots by the thousands in '66 and it took a few years to use them all.
That's possible but I doubt it. Even in the 60s manufacturers were doing timely purchases from trusted vendors.
Anyone have a '67 or later Gibby with '66 pots? Difficult to check them on my '67 EB-2.
It's possible. My '77 Tele Bass II had '73 pots. And I know it was a '77 from the s/n.
It is possible for a bass to have pots much earlier than the year it was produced. My Dad was a manufacturers rep for many famous electronic components companies in the 50's -90's GE, Mallory, Sylvania etc etc etc. Companies would buy large quantities of parts, especially parts that were used across a product line and of course the more you bought the cheaper they were. Also inventory control wasn't what it is today I have no trouble believing that a box of '66 pots were found buried in the parts room in or stashed under someones work bench '69.
I think Ford used to do the same thing. I once had a '68 Fairlane wagon. I blew out the fan clutch and it took several attempts to find the right part. The catalogs were saying one thing, but when I brought the part in, we found that they were using the part designated for a '67 Galaxie.
I worked at Rochester General Hospital for 15 years when they did a purge of the tool crib/parts room you wouldn't believe what got tossed. The "new" Hospital was built in '64 and a lot came over from the old location that was built in the late 1800s. Lots of old electrical stuff, NOS tubes, tube testers, Despar switches, gem light indicators, Bakealight chicken heads and tons of pre/post war USA made screws. Just try and find a decent screw these days.
Quote from: godofthunder on February 03, 2014, 09:11:50 AM
...... Just try and find a decent screw these days.
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/1a/1a248f21e293bf4ced5b53ec228b267cd524a589aced0a6fdc29b1b0c370ba50.jpg)
;D My work here is done.
Being led off topic, I used to work at a medical device company. Periodically they would hold auctions at which they'd offload old equipment. I got a small drill press for $5.25, an anvil for $15, a maple slab 3x6" workbench for $2.25 and a super nice maple slab work bench with footrest, drawers and an overhead light for $.25.
They always held those auctions late in the afternoon after manufacturing had gone for the day. Office ladies had no use for the stuff I wanted!
There is some Kick ass Painter stripper that comes in a can....you can get it at home Depot..You just spray it on..waut then brush off the old paint, rather than SANDING it.
Plus 1 using stripper instead of sanding
Quote from: Baz Cooper on February 03, 2014, 06:52:18 PM
There is some Kick ass Painter stripper that comes in a can....you can get it at home Depot..You just spray it on..waut then brush off the old paint, rather than SANDING it.
Quote from: godofthunder on February 03, 2014, 07:43:48 PM
Plus 1 using stripper instead of sanding
Plus 2 on Klean-Strip spray
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip-18-oz-Stripper-ESR72/100135467
I never remove old paint on wood by sanding. For both the Smurf Ripper and the '75 P-bass I used naptha and scotchbrite pads. Generally works pretty well because I wanted to keep the original natural finish.
That's the stuff, Carlo!!!
Scotchbrite.....that's a bit rough... was it a Poly finish??? The ONLY way to remove that is with a heat gun.
The original finish on the P bass and Ripper were clear but very hard. The naptha didn't affect those even when I used the Scotchbrite pads (those designed for kitchen use). The crappy black paint on the Pbass came right off but the blue paint and white on the Ripper were a lot harder to deal with.
Where possible I like to leave the original finish.
I used this spray stuff called Talstrip or something like that on metal motorcycle parts. It's an aircraft stripper. That stuff will strip anything off anything. Doubt I'd use it on guitar though.
UPS tracking says it should be at my house today!
Cool!
:popcorn:
I've been worried that the bass wouldn't survive, having heard so many stories of broken headstocks, etc. Well, it made it just fine, in large part to the fact that the case it's in is made out of old armored car parts. It's HEAVY! Stenciled on it in red is "Blast" which I supposed was a band's name.
The guy packed it very well, packing the bass in on all sides with extra styrofoam (including egg containers. The parts were all wrapped up by item, ie the TRC screws were in their own container, PG screws in their own, etc. The TRC, which I'm not sure is original (was the Gibson logo in gold or white in those days?), was wrapped with the cavity cover and both were wrapped in a blue flyer for an NYC music venue and is dated 1981. The whole she-bang smells musty! Apparently it's been in storage for many years, so it's really surprising that it still had all the original parts.
The neck below the headstock seems really smooth with no odd lumps or seams, so until I can confirm no neck breaks by removing the paint, I would bet it has no breaks. The neck seems pretty damn straight.
The holes for the original bridge posts were filled in long ago in order to mount the replacement black bridge currently on it.
The black PG is original but was painted at one point. Other than a little distortion and an area on the back corresponding to where the big pickup cover screw is which seems like some glue affected it, it's in okay shape.
The bass is surprising light and has a thin body and thin neck as well. I can easily see that one just like this was the model for the Series II BaCHs.
This week and over the weekend I'll check for serial number and see if I can get any sound out of it.
Only one of the four original acorn nuts for the original bridge saddles have survived. Anyone have any?
As I said, I'm not sure the truss rod cover is original and at one point the bass has had another one mounted on it.
Missing for sure is the mute assembly, but I'm sure that was commonly removed. There's one on eBay and I sent a lowball offer for the hell of it but it was declined.
So far, I have to say I'm pleased with it and am looking forward to rehabbing it.
Glad it arrived safley! The logo on the truss rod cover should be gold. The correct acorn nuts are almost impossible to find.
Quote from: godofthunder on February 06, 2014, 06:58:59 AM
Glad it arrived safley! The logo on the truss rod cover should be gold. The correct acorn nuts are almost impossible to find.
I'm missing two acorn nuts on my '64 as well. Have you found any available suitable replacements? I just have standard hex nuts on there right now.
Quote from: FrankieTbird on February 06, 2014, 03:13:44 PM
I'm missing two acorn nuts on my '64 as well. Have you found any available suitable replacements? I just have standard hex nuts on there right now.
They may not be the gin-you-wine article, but ACE Hardware carries a pretty good selection of acorn nuts. And a quick search for "chrome plated acorn nuts" is rewarding...
Chrome plated ones here...called cap nuts: http://monsterfastener.com/ichrome.aspx?gclid=CJbF7YbZuLwCFY1AMgodVD8Ajg
Sorry those are not even close.
Quote from: godofthunder on February 06, 2014, 08:39:27 PM
Sorry those are not even close.
It's amazing how ballsy a Thunderbird sounds with those tiny nuts.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/1964%20Thunderbird%20II/P1010135-001_zps0e46215b.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/cata1d0/media/1964%20Thunderbird%20II/P1010135-001_zps0e46215b.jpg.html)
Hahaha!
I had a source, they sent me samples. Not spot on but very close. When I ordered they sent me a bag of product that was the wrong size and looked nothing like the samples. We went round and round about it and I got nowhere so I dropped it. I gave the samples to someone because I thought I'd have tons of 'em.
Quote from: dadagoboi on February 06, 2014, 09:27:56 PM
It's amazing how ballsy a Thunderbird sounds with those tiny nuts.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eCdIe0wdvU
2min 30secs... ;D
Quote from: godofthunder on February 06, 2014, 06:58:59 AM
The correct acorn nuts are almost impossible to find.
Almost impossible means not impossible, which means possible ;D
What is the correct screw size and wrench size?