I've been thinking about this for a long time. THE major flaw with a Three Point is the almost total lack of break angle. I think it's very important and a big reason why 60s Birds sound different from their later siblings. Anyway here it is, my ripoff of Scott's Badbird for Thunderbirds not made in the '60s. This is a prototype I got from Steve today. A little rough but it make this Epi Bolt on SING. It's my Cataldo bridge "embiggened" to accommodate Three Point stud spacing.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/NEVERTILT/P1050453_zpse6fd16dd.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/cata1d0/media/NEVERTILT/P1050453_zpse6fd16dd.jpg.html)
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/NEVERTILT/P1050457_zps914dea9e.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/cata1d0/media/NEVERTILT/P1050457_zps914dea9e.jpg.html)
Goes LOW, great break angle, individual string spacing and height, and it's shiny...
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/NEVERTILT/P1050465_zps05f36826.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/cata1d0/media/NEVERTILT/P1050465_zps05f36826.jpg.html)
Price will be more than a Supertone but less than Hipshot's bridge/tailpiece combo. Slightly less ugly IMO.
That's not ugly at all, reminds me a bit of the Evertilt in look which wasn't so much an ugly bridge as it was a non-functional one (unless of course - Dave's Hypothetical Stringholder Theorem - it would have had a stringholder, but then it didn't). Not that I have issues with the Holy Immaculate Trinity Point, but there are obviously sinners, heathens and pagans out there who do! :mrgreen:
Quote from: uwe on January 22, 2014, 05:32:56 PM
That's not ugly at all, reminds me a bit of the Evertilt in look which wasn't so much an ugly bridge as it was a non-functional one (unless of course - Dave's Hypothetical Stringholder Theorem - it would have had a stringholder, but then it didn't). Not that I have issues with the Holy Immaculate Trinity Point, but there are obviously sinners, heathens and pagans out there who do! :mrgreen:
Well, it's not as elegant as my original which doesn't need to be so large.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/NEVERTILT/CATALDOBRIDGE_zps4587778c.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/cata1d0/media/NEVERTILT/CATALDOBRIDGE_zps4587778c.jpg.html)
It also reminded me of an Evertilt when I got it today. Difference is this one sits directly on the top of the body (or will when it's finalized, right now there's a .125 inch spacer, 3mm, between it and the body) so it's a NEVERTILT.
String break angle is important, or at least to almost every bridge maker not named Gibson.
Even as a card-carrying three pointer I have to say: that looks alright.
Thanks, Uwe!
Quote from: uwe on January 22, 2014, 06:07:48 PM
Even as a card-carrying three pointer I have to say: that looks alright.
Same here.
That looks great! Not a rip off and I highly aprove. I have drawings for a solution to the three point long before Hipshot, the genius is ignoring the third point and taking it back to a set up with the tail piece. I agree that the two point with the tailpiece is a big factor in Thunderbirds sound/sustain. That is a great solution. Big thumbs up!
When I traded out my chrome three-pointer from my RD to Scott for a black Epi three-pointer for the RD I was somewhat surprised to discover it was smaller spacing...? Easy for me to resolve after plugging and drilling, but...
Is this common...?
Quote from: CAR-54 on January 23, 2014, 01:26:48 AM
When I traded out my chrome three-pointer from my RD to Scott for a black Epi three-pointer for the RD I was somewhat surprised to discover it was smaller spacing...? Easy for me to resolve after plugging and drilling, but...
Is this common...?
Yep, all the Epis have metric studs, I'm not sure about USA mades after '79. My Bicentennial uses SAE thread. It won't be a problem making two bases or a one size fits all.
Unlike the 3 point all the force is directed downward. I always set up the bridges on my basses without studs, they're more cosmetic than functional The break angle keeps the bridge in place and gives me a last chance to make absolutely sure of the correct stud location...Example:
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/P1050423_zpsa44446cb.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/cata1d0/media/P1050423_zpsa44446cb.jpg.html)
That's a nice bass.
Thanks, customer just decided he wants nickel instead of gold hardware to go with its sunburst.
My RD's a '78 - it was the distance between the main posts that was wider, iirc - can't remember what the bass was Scott needed it for... Grabber...?
Quote from: dadagoboi on January 23, 2014, 06:24:27 AM
and gives me a last chance to make absolutely sure of the correct stud location...
I'll check it against the RD's body again to be sure...
I think the Butcher Bird needs one!
:o ... there goes the neighbourhood, and the by-line... ;)
Quote from: godofthunder on January 23, 2014, 07:34:08 AM
I think the Butcher Bird needs one!
You'll be a great beta tester Scott!
Quote from: uwe on January 22, 2014, 05:32:56 PM
That's not ugly at all, reminds me a bit of the Evertilt in look which wasn't so much an ugly bridge as it was a non-functional one (unless of course - Dave's Hypothetical Stringholder Theorem - it would have had a stringholder, but then it didn't). Not that I have issues with the Holy Immaculate Trinity Point, but there are obviously sinners, heathens and pagans out there who do! :mrgreen:
That's exactly what I was thinking. Surprised that there is no tilt (despite string holder) due to the offset mounting, but if it works then great. I like it. I just have no issue with any of my 3 points, though if I had to install a bridge on a new bass I probably wouldn't use one if I had other options (it's so much easier when the mounting posts are in line with the saddle-travel's midpoint). What I do especially like about the 3 point applies to archtops only (or , I suppose any flat top with a similalr drastic neck break angle) - due to the tri-mounting, you can tilt them to be parallel to the neck/strings, vs the body. The bridge seems to perform better this way.
It's a much underrated American design!
Lookin' Good!
I had given thought to having the Badbird modded for this purpose. I would have had to have had samples made up with more travel, in the end I decided it wasn't worth it. The Badbird is made in USA and is specifically for vintage Thunderbirds and the cost reflects that. I couldn't make anything on these aimed at the modern Epi/Gibson Thunderbird market.
Quote from: godofthunder on January 23, 2014, 10:29:41 AM
I had given thought to having the Badbird modded for this purpose. I would have had to have had samples made up with more travel, in the end I decided it wasn't worth it. The Badbird is made in USA and is specifically for vintage Thunderbirds and the cost reflects that. I couldn't make anything on these aimed at the modern Epi/Gibson Thunderbird market.
It won't be cheap, $125 delivered is the target price with shipping. It's not like it's a necessity. After all, that tone killing hunk of sound deadening pot metal known as the Three Point is a magnificent piece of inbred engineering. Steve will make the bridges/tailpieces one at a time. I'm just doing the design work. Except for that Epi TBird the only thing I own with a 3 point is my '77 Bicentennial and it's 3 point problem has been solved with no mods to the body...look ma, actual break angle.
(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/NEVERTILT/P1060172.jpg) (http://s976.photobucket.com/user/cata1d0/media/NEVERTILT/P1060172.jpg.html)
Again, as a bona-fide 3-point lover on my Epi LP Standard, all the break angle talk got me to thinking, because I don't have any trouble with break angle on my Epi Les Paul Standard, but when I look at the bass from the side the reason is obvious: the carved top slopes down below the bridge and the the stud mounts are set a good ways BELOW the actual end of the string travel, creating a backward pitch on the 3-point bridge and overcoming its inherent lack of break angle. I also play with a higher setup than most folks, which helps too. On something like a T-Bird without a negative pitch on the back of the three point, unless the studs were set REALLY high and the neck pitched down pretty far, it would definitely be a vibration killer.
Maybe the 3-point was designed for a carved top bass, and was so expensive to produce that Gibson just stuck it on everything because it was so big and "uptown gaudy" like most of their aesthetics. Back when the bridge was introduced, sustain was probably the LAST quality their perspective customers were looking for, since most of them were guitar players or were trying to emulate the lifeless thump of upright basses on recordings from that era. One thing to say about the the 3-point is that it certainly LOOKS unique, a look I like.
Sorry not so clear as I e'd them from the shed just as quickie images... it shows that the posts are smaller and slightly inset from the USA parts, hopefully...
Quote from: CAR-54 on January 26, 2014, 02:38:00 PM
Sorry not so clear as I e'd them from the shed just as quickie images... it shows that the posts are smaller and slightly inset from the USA parts, hopefully...
Thanks, Kenny. Yeah the Epi one uses m8 thread, USA uses 5/16-24. I made the plate to fit both. Gathering resources.