I've been mulling this over for months and I think I'm going to add a cabinet to my Mesa rig. I've been waffling between a 15" vs. 4x10. I already have a great 15" Mesa cab, but I want more bass than the 1x12" Scout main cab is giving me. Our club is small, so volume isn't an issue. I just want more bottom end and I want it to be relatively clean, not muddy.
What do you think?
IMHO you'll get more bass with the 1x15.
Quote from: Dave W on March 21, 2013, 08:56:49 AM
IMHO you'll get more bass with the 1x15.
I was thinking that, but I'm a real novice when it comes to cabinets! My audiology background tells me you're correct, but numnerous bass buddies locally keep telling me 4x10s have "just as much bass." I find that hard to believe knowing how the size of the speakers and wave lengths generated by them (and freq resp) will have an effect. Maybe the differences are small and not that discernable to the naked ear, but I sure can hear the difference between my Mesa 15 vs. the 12.
The 4x10 will probably be louder, depending on the cabinet design, and some people mistake a louder low end with more bass.
Quote from: Dave W on March 21, 2013, 09:06:03 AM
The 4x10 will probably be louder, depending on the cabinet design, and some people mistake a louder low end with more bass.
Understandable. I've been looking at some of the lower priced 15" cabs, not going to go the Mesa mega-bucks route. With my 92 TB plugged into the Mesa amp, I rarely turn the main volume up beyond 3.5 when gigging! The 300 watt head gives me plenty of room and drives the heck out of the speakers with ease. I like the looks of the Ampeg flip tops and the speaker should handle the output easily. It would make a nice portable rig too.
IME the 4x10 will be a cleaner sound, but not necessarily with stronger low end.
I think Bill is a traditional-sound guy, so the 15 probably will fit him better.
Quote from: Pilgrim on March 21, 2013, 10:59:20 AM
IME the 4x10 will be a cleaner sound, but not necessarily with stronger low end.
I think Bill is a traditional-sound guy, so the 15 probably will fit him better.
You know me well Al! I'm about to push the button on an Ampeg flip top 15" cab with an Eminence speaker. It should do the trick in my venue.
What, no phil jones?
http://www.philjonespuresound.com/products/?id=8
Think of all the bass two 5" speakers could provide... somehow
Quote from: Dave W on March 21, 2013, 08:56:49 AM
IMHO you'll get more bass with the 1x15.
This completely depends on the drivers, and is actually not likely to be the case (do the math, the volume of air in 4 10" cones > the volume of air in a single 15).
The problem is that 4 10s will also (tend to) give you more top end (upper mids really). This can be counteracted with driver choice (e.g. my DIY 8x10 with vinrtage Rola woofers has very little top compared to my Musicman RH115 with EV SP15c fullrange driver, which is not typical).
The main thing all around is if you want clean bass extension (vs the illusion of more bass, but not actually deeper bass) avoid bass reflex cabs altogether (go for accoustic suspension/sealed, horn or transmission line... I guess isobaric if size is a factor, but there aren't too many of those on the market that I'm aware of).
Quote from: Pilgrim on March 21, 2013, 10:59:20 AM
IME the 4x10 will be a cleaner sound, but not necessarily with stronger low end.
This is also not true - completely depends on the driver (mostly how stiff the cones are). E.G. a vintage Ampeg 8x10 is not clean at all (medium-light guitar cones on those custom drivers; break up more easily than stiffer bass guitar or PA woofer cones) ...assuming that you're running it at the same percent of power handling as whatever cab you are comparing it to. If you only give it 100 watts it'll be pristine (amp/effect distortion doesn't count). Stiffer cones also have a lower resonant frequency ( which is generally indicative of the lower limit of the driver's useful response, but cab type is also a factor there).
So basically for more/deeper and clean bass you want:
- any cab type other than bass reflex (or open back, obviously)
- as much cone volume as you can stand (i.e. to move around)
- the stiffest/heaviest cones possible (within reason; remember Hartke? alu cones create other issues; some like, some don't)
- total cab power handling that is at least double if not triple what you'll be throwing at it
Quote from: drbassman on March 21, 2013, 11:20:58 AM
I'm about to push the button on an Ampeg flip top 15" cab with an Eminence speaker.
Think twice - those cheaper PF cabs fart out at volume. If a single 15" floats your boat, I'd look at one of the repro cabs made by Bruce at fliptops.net. I've got one of his sealed 15" cabs with an Eminence Legend - I know that $524 is more than the Ampeg PF115, but with the Legend speaker it will handle anything you throw at it, and the sealed cab has a lot of old school punch.
http://www.fliptops.net/catalog/p-100775/speaker-cabinet-1x15-b15r-b15e-style
Quote from: Granny Gremlin on March 21, 2013, 03:38:31 PM
This completely depends on the drivers, and is actually not likely to be the case (do the math, the volume of air in 4 10" cones > the volume of air in a single 15).
It does depend on the drivers, but I'm talking about frequency response.
Quote from: Granny Gremlin on March 21, 2013, 03:38:31 PM
The main thing all around is if you want clean bass extension (vs the illusion of more bass, but not actually deeper bass) avoid bass reflex cabs altogether (go for accoustic suspension/sealed, horn or transmission line... I guess isobaric if size is a factor, but there aren't too many of those on the market that I'm aware of).
It's true that a sealed cab will go lower without cutting off like a bass reflex cabinet. But there's a dropoff in volume as the frequency decreases. Plus there's the problem that a sealed cab designed for optimum bass response with a driver that can deliver the specs and handle the power is likely to be much larger than a bass reflex cabinet.
Bass reflex cabinets will stay popular with bassists.
Quote from: Dave W on March 21, 2013, 06:01:19 PM
It does depend on the drivers, but I'm talking about frequency response.
I do not follow you here. F response is very dependent on the driver (the primary factor actually, with the cab design being secondary to that).
Quote from: Dave W on March 21, 2013, 06:01:19 PM
It's true that a sealed cab will go lower without cutting off like a bass reflex cabinet. But there's a dropoff in volume as the frequency decreases.
Yes, but this rolloff is a very slow and gradual taper which is natural to the ear (vs the quick fall off the cliff of ported). It is a bit of a matter of taste, and I tried to express that (though granted in my anti-ported cab biased way - it's been a while I guess but I've always been honest about that slant). The industry's obsession with flat F response graphs has led to a massive groupthink I have found. Remmeber 3 db is the smallest change in volume that the human ear can detect, and if the rolloff of a sealed cab is only 6 db per octave, that means you can actually hear deeper bass than the same driver in a ported cab; it is useful response despite not being flat. Flat is a gimmik (and in fact many manufacturers, this goes double for hifi, design cabs to meet that spec vs just sounding good and the graph be damned). This, to me, is preferable because you don't get such a huge difference between fundamental response of open E vs A ( most instrument drivers' resonance is well above 40Hz; ported cabs have no response worth talking about below that point, but sealed cabs do. From there you can get a better balance with some judicious tone control/EQ use.
Anyway, this illustrates what I mean (I didn't make this graph, and would be the first to admit that the scale used is somewhat biased in favour of sealed, but it still shows that there isn't necessarily that much to be gained from ported cabs aside from size reduction). Not shown is how (depending on port tuning) there can be a response bump before it takes the characteristic nose dive. Though technically this isn't a problem unless it's a reference application, depending on where that bump is it can create an annoying loud note (or 2) as you move along the fretboard.
(http://grannygremlin.com/images/PortedVsSealed.JPG)
That said, the only time I think a ported cab is an acceptable option (again, IMHO) is with larger drivers (or at least ones with very low resonance). For example, bookshelf hifi's with 5" woofers in ported cabs are stupid, but 15" Tannoy Gold studio monitors (ported cab) are amazing (though much of that is also due to some other factors which are irrelevant here, the point is I don't see bass reflex as a handicap in that situation, though it's still not my preference).
Quote from: Dave W on March 21, 2013, 06:01:19 PMPlus there's the problem that a sealed cab designed for optimum bass response with a driver that can deliver the specs and handle the power is likely to be much larger than a bass reflex cabinet.
Bass reflex cabinets will stay popular with bassists.
Yes, I alluded to the size issue above and I know bass reflex ain't going nowhere (whether it'sd hifi or instrument applications we're talking about). But if size was the only issue, we'd all be rocking single 1 x 10 or 12 isobaric cabs exclusively (isobaric cabs being even smaller than ported, given the same driver... the drawback is cost and efficiency), and that's just not the case (see; 8x10, 2x15 etc or the very clear example staring us in the face in this thread: extension or secondary cabs).
Anyway, my point wasn't to say you need to do this, just explaining what factors result in the stated desired result (and to correct a few categorical statements). Not all points need to be heeded to get a satisfactory result for the OP, and the pros / cons were stated or obvious so that people can make their own decisions. ... but if you want to go all the way, there's the checklist.
:rolleyes:
Bill asked for opinions, not a book on audio theory, ferchrissakes.
Of course the driver has to be able to deliver the goods, that's a given. So does the enclosure.
Bottom line for me: I've played 1x15s and 4x10s of a number of brands, and every one of the 1x15s had more bass. Every one, no question about it. The sealed 4x10 Ampeg included. And while I haven't seen frequency response charts on all of them, the ones I've seen confirm this. That's good enough for me.
just out of curiosty,what cab are you playing through granny g?
Wow, nice treatise on cab design and speaker interactions. Bottom line for me, is I usually over-buy stuff and that works fine. But this time around, I just wanted to go low brow for the little club we play in. I'm getting the 15" flipper from Ampeg. Found it on sale for $330. If it farts on me, I'll upgrade the speaker myself. I'm not expecting volume problems, as I said before, I don't drive my speakers hard in a 3 piece band playing in a club with 100 partiers. We have made a concerted effort to not overplay and overcrank the volume as our crowd is older, like us, and they like to talk and drink as well as dance. If we get too loud, they bitch!
If I were doing stage work, I'd be buying top of the line drivers/cabs. It doesn't take much to convince me to buy top quality, I'm a sucker for good equipment. For now, I do want more bass or bottom. If it's not crisp, I don't care as long as it's not grossly distorted.
I have found, over time, that the 12" radiator cab from Mesa is easy to distort while the 15" cab can take anything I've thrown at it. I'd lean toward one of those 15" cabs if they weren't $1000 street price. I like the look of those flip top cabs by Bruce, thanks for pointing those out Mark. I'll keep them in mind.
Thanks everyone, this has been educating. When I was practicing audiology decades ago, our study and application of sound theory was confined to human hearing at the level of the external, middle and inner ear as well as central auditory processing by the cerebral cortex. Didn't do a lot of work in the environmental acoustic realm except assessing hearing aid performance in the field by users. The other stuff was reserved mostly for the industrial audiologists and acoustic engineers working in factory environments. Where would we bass players be without acoustic engineers?
I will give full report on the cheesy cab when I use it at practice. We're off for two weeks, but I'll give it a thorough test when we get back at it. In fact, I think I'll bring the Mesa amp home today and test it out here. That could be fun! I'll be back.......
Quote from: drbassman on March 22, 2013, 06:15:37 AM
I'm getting the 15" flipper from Ampeg. Found it on sale for $330. If it farts on me, I'll upgrade the speaker myself.
Though I agree with Mark's assessment earlier, I think this is a good plan (especially if that cab won't be driven as hard as the spec says it can - being a secondary extension cab). Drivers are easy to upgrade and you can easily get $50-100 for the old one.
Quote from: chordzilla on March 21, 2013, 11:17:00 PM
just out of curiosty,what cab are you playing through granny g?
The Musicman RH115 I mentioned before is my main gigging rig (slightly modified in that I extended the internal reflex horn and swapped the driver out for an EV SP15c, which is the fastest transient responding and brightest 15 I have ever heard, but still has plenty of bottom - the amp is only a 100 watts vs the speaker's handling of 300 so farting out isn't an issue despite the light cone). Alt cabs include the DIY sealed 8x10 with vintage Rola alnico drivers and 2 1x12 transmission lines with a selection of drivers I swap out for various uses (bass, guitar or small PA for solo acoustic gigs).
They can all be seen in here (Musicman on the right, grey grille, one of the 1x12s and the 8x10 on the left):
(http://www.blogto.com/upload/2012/05/20120528-Polyhaus-6.jpg)
wait this one's better (don't let the Traynor badge fool you, that's how I found the MM in the pawn shop; didn't know what it was at the time, but the price was very good, and I'm so very glad I bought it... originally it had a crappy Eminence stamped frame, bottom of the line driver in it), I think that's a JBL E120 in the 1x12:
(http://grannygremlin.com/images/nonwebpics/amps-n-cabs/TheWall0001-sm.JPG)
Dave, I really don't understand your problem or your attitude here and am just gonna leave this alone with you. I was trying to be helpful and I think it was somewhat appreciated so I'm just gonna hit it and quit. Keep rolling your eyes if you must but it's just making you look like a grump. I don't know why you are making it personal like this; we're talking about speakers not politics or religion.
Hey, all's well with me. Don't asnyone go away yet! I gotta another dumb cab question. I have the Mesa 1x12 and 1x15 cabs wired direect/parallel out of the Mesa amp, each 8 ohms. Can I take the parallel out jack on the Mesa 1x15 and just run it into the new Ampeg 1x15? How does that affect the amp output? Man, I just have never learned this stuff!
That would be 3 cabs in parallel, and assuming the Ampex is 8 too that would total 2.66666 (repeating) or if 4 just 2. It's possible you amp will be OK with this, but check.
I found my paper on calculating ohms. If I figure it correctly, hooking up 3-8 ohm speakers to the amp would yield the following:
(8x8x8)/(8+8+8) = 21.33
Is this correct? My amp is 300 watts at 4 ohm. 300x (4/21.33) = roughly 60 watts. Mathematically, it makes sense to me, just wanted to be sure I didn't miss something.
Sounds like a need some 4 ohm drivers in the mix. (I do have a new 4 ohm 12" in the closet)
Quote from: Granny Gremlin on March 22, 2013, 12:06:17 PM
That would be 3 cabs in parallel, and assuming the Ampex is 8 too that would total 2.66666 (repeating) or if 4 just 2. It's possible you amp will be OK with this, but check.
Opps, my calulations are off then. The amp is rated 300 watts at 4 ohms. Did I miscalculate or is formula incorrect?
My original thought was to just use the two 15", 8 ohm cabs and leave the 12" cab out. I might stick with that thought and get rid of the weak link anyway. As I said, the club is small, I want more bass, volume optional! ;D
We were posting at the same time so I guess you didn't see mine, but you're off. Parrallel speakers' total Z is always less than each cab on it's own (as a math check); series is easier and just adds up.
series: Ztotal = Z1 + Z2....
parallel: 1/Ztotal = 1/Z1 + 1/Z2 +..
so in your case:
1/Z = 1/8 + 1/8 + 1/8
1/Z = 3/8
1/Z = 0.375
Z = 2.6666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666
Quote from: Granny Gremlin on March 22, 2013, 12:12:03 PM
We were posting at the same time so I guess you didn't see mine, but you're off. Parrallel speakers total Z is always less than each cab on it's own (as a math check) - series adds up.
I see, wrong formula on my part! Thanks! Three 8 ohm speakers is not the way for me to go. I don't want to take the Z below 4 ohm rating. Thanks!!!
the formula was expanded/simplified incorrectly from the root formukla I posted above.
A quick cheat (that ONLY WORKS IF ALL PARALLEL CABS ARE THE SAME Z) is:
Z of each cab/# of cabs
so therefore:
8/3 = 2.6666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666
If you're mixing 8s and 4s (etc) you gotta use the original formula I posted.
Quote from: Granny Gremlin on March 22, 2013, 12:19:00 PM
the formula was expanded/simplified incorrectly (I double checked and got the same answer).
A quick cheat (that ONLY WORKS IF ALL PARALLEL CABS ARE THE SAME Z) is:
Z of each cab/# of cabs
so therefore:
8/3 = 2.6666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666
Thanks. Gotta figure it out with the 12" 4 ohm cab in the mix.
Math check, please!
1/Z = 1/4 + 1/8 + 1/8
1/Z = 4/8
1/Z = 0.5
Z = 2
yep
Quote from: Granny Gremlin on March 22, 2013, 12:43:20 PM
yep
Looks like I'm going with the two 15" cabs. Thanks so much for your help! :)
no sweat, dude.
Quote from: drbassman on March 22, 2013, 06:23:15 AM
I will give full report on the cheesy cab when I use it at practice. We're off for two weeks, but I'll give it a thorough test when we get back at it. In fact, I think I'll bring the Mesa amp home today and test it out here. That could be fun! I'll be back.......
The fliptop ampeg cabs have a horn BTW. And it is a sealed cab so sometimes the tops will vibrate if not really tight. It will not sound as deep as a ported cab. Supposedly the eminence speaker in the fliptop is pretty good. Ampeg just introduced a 15 cab with ports and is not a fliptop but same look. Not sue if they are out there yet.
Quote from: jumbodbassman on March 23, 2013, 09:13:36 AM
The fliptop ampeg cabs have a horn BTW. And it is a sealed cab so sometimes the tops will vibrate if not really tight. It will not sound as deep as a ported cab. Supposedly the eminence speaker in the fliptop is pretty good. Ampeg just introduced a 15 cab with ports and is not a fliptop but same look. Not sue if they are out there yet.
Yeah, I got the one with the tweeter. We'll see how deep it sounds. I will be able to compare it to the Mesa 15 cab I have. Should be fun!
Tweeters are easily disconnected if you feel like it (and most often should be: usually a shitty piezo anyway, and it isn't really doing much aside from increasing amp noise/hum/hiss unless you're a slapper, or high register/heavy on the modulation effects player).
I maintain that they are mostly there in order to allow the manufacturer to claim a higher efficiency spec on the cab as a whole (now that the whole slap and 'hifi" bass tone trends are over)
The one thing to watch out for when you disconnect the tweeter is whether or not the manufacturer included it in the calculation of the cab impedance (as often as not, like I said, usually not doing very much so electrically, you can almost ignore it - budget hifi speakers in the 60s/70s used to pull this same crap as regards Z ratings) - the easiest thing is to just take a gander at the sticker on the woofer for it's Z rating and then you know what you got.
This one has a switch, so I should be able to turn it to zero. We'll see.
Quote from: Granny Gremlin on March 24, 2013, 11:48:09 AM
Tweeters are easily disconnected if you feel like it (and most often should be: usually a shitty piezo anyway, and it isn't really doing much aside from increasing amp noise/hum/hiss unless you're a slapper, or high register/heavy on the modulation effects player).
I maintain that they are mostly there in order to allow the manufacturer to claim a higher efficiency spec on the cab as a whole (now that the whole slap and 'hifi" bass tone trends are over)
The one thing to watch out for when you disconnect the tweeter is whether or not the manufacturer included it in the calculation of the cab impedance (as often as not, like I said, usually not doing very much so electrically, you can almost ignore it - budget hifi speakers in the 60s/70s used to pull this same crap as regards Z ratings) - the easiest thing is to just take a gander at the sticker on the woofer for it's Z rating and then you know what you got.
It's nice when the tweeter has its' own volume control. You can actually see the benifit of having a tweeter when you can control it. All or nothing is not the kind of control you want.
Rick
Quote from: rahock on March 25, 2013, 05:50:40 AM
It's nice when the tweeter has its' own volume control. You can actually see the benifit of having a tweeter when you can control it. All or nothing is not the kind of control you want.
Rick
You and I both appreciate that on the G-B Shuttle series, there's a handy knob for the purpose of setting tweeter levels. I run mine at about 25%.
Quote from: Pilgrim on March 25, 2013, 09:04:56 AM
You and I both appreciate that on the G-B Shuttle series, there's a handy knob for the purpose of setting tweeter levels. I run mine at about 25%.
Yep, both of my Mesa cabs have tweeter controls on them. I've been running them at 25% and it give them nice, not so harsh, treble.
Without wading into the sea of half-information that's been presented and correcting/clarifying it, I'll just say that there's no way anyone can generalize that ALL 1x15's and ALL 4x10's are going to sound a certain way. There are many 1x15 cabinets that don't have any meaningful response below low E on a GUITAR and there are 4x10's with a legitimate 6 dB downpoint at low B on a five string, and the best way to determine what will work for you is to hear it for yourself.
Typically, most 4x10's are voiced to emphasize midrange, low mids on cabs like the old Eden XLT series and upper mids on more "hifi" cabs like an SWR Goliath or Trace Elliot 1048. 15" speakers became ubiquitous for bass cabs but they're not always the best choice if you need more low end close to you onstage. They can project large amounts of low end into the audience while you end up sounding thin onstage. That's why cabs voiced like the Eden XLT's became popular. Even though they have little to no true first-octave response, their heavy low midrange makes for a very "bassy" sounding cabinet that can make you sound more full onstage without throwing out a larger amount of PA muddying bass.
On the subject of tweeters, there is a psychoacoustic phenomenon where increased bass leads to the perception of increased high end because the brain "extrapolates" a more complete harmonic series based on the added low end, but the caveat is that this requires actual low frequency content and not just more low mids. This is also why tweeters became standard issue on 4x10's; they were overall more muddy sounding because of the lack of actual low end, so tweeters were added to give more tonal articulation.
I think in drbassman should check out a bunch of cabinets, but I have a feeling that he will be best served by a 4x10.
Thanks for the update. I did notice that my old rig was not projecting the bass out into the crowd in our little club. Hence, I decided to try the 15" cab. I think it will be fine. My listeners are not nearly as discriminating as many of us here. They just want to dance! :P
Quote from: Psycho Bass Guy on March 25, 2013, 10:47:29 PM
15" speakers became ubiquitous for bass cabs but they're not always the best choice if you need more low end close to you onstage. They can project large amounts of low end into the audience while you end up sounding thin onstage.
The SWR Henry 8x8 has more low end than most 15" cabs, projects tremendously well, and develops it's tone close to the cab too - so what you hear onstage is what the audience also hears. The performance of that cab is another example that belies the "15's have more low end than smaller speakers" myth.
Quote from: Aussie Mark on March 26, 2013, 05:07:13 PM
The SWR Henry 8x8 has more low end than most 15" cabs, projects tremendously well, and develops it's tone close to the cab too - so what you hear onstage is what the audience also hears. The performance of that cab is another example that belies the "15's have more low end than smaller speakers" myth.
That must be why they discontinued it. ;) Seriously, there was a cab you could hear well on stage but not more than a few feet beyond. JMHO, YMMV, etc.
Quote from: Dave W on March 26, 2013, 11:14:40 PM
That must be why they discontinued it. ;) Seriously, there was a cab you could hear well on stage but not more than a few feet beyond. JMHO, YMMV, etc.
And Dave, of course you owned a Henry 8x8 and gigged one extensively, so you are well qualified to make that statement?
The Henry was in the SWR range for more than 10 years, so I don't think that's why it was discontinued. I imagine the trend to lightweight neo-equipped cabs was one of the reasons. I'm not the only bassist I know who would jump at a neo Henry that weighed say 60-70lbs.
The band has a custom built bass 4x10 at the club with top line speakers, just can't remember what kind. I really dislike it. I used it for six months and could never get decent deep thumpy tone out of it that I wanted Tons of volumn, way more than I needed. When I went to the Mesa, things improved immensely to my ears. In the end, that's what matters. What's in my head! :P
Quote from: drbassman on March 27, 2013, 05:28:06 AM
The band has a custom built bass 4x10 at the club with top line speakers, just can't remember what kind.
Many modern high powered drivers may be loud, but unless they're put into a properly designed cabinet, they're not going to sound good. Too many people think that a circle jig and the ability to shape a plywood rectangle are the only things you need to know to build a bass cabinet. It works for guitar, but not for bass. That lower octave is a bitch.
Quote from: Psycho Bass Guy on March 27, 2013, 08:12:25 AM
Many modern high powered drivers may be loud, but unless they're put into a properly designed cabinet, they're not going to sound good. Too many people think that a circle jig and the ability to shape a plywood rectangle are the only things you need to know to build a bass cabinet. It works for guitar, but not for bass. That lower octave is a bitch.
True, but the builder is the local "go to" amp/speaker tech in the region, so his knowledge and skill has been confirmed a lot over the last couple decades. He hand builds his guitar/bass amps and cabs and people buy/love em. I just just coudn't get the 4x10 to work for me. Not a big deal.
Quote from: Aussie Mark on March 26, 2013, 11:49:38 PM
And Dave, of course you owned a Henry 8x8 and gigged one extensively, so you are well qualified to make that statement?
Of course I didn't own one. Why on earth would anyone buy a cabinet he doesn't like?
I know how they sound on stage having played through one at a benefit gig using shared equipment.
I know how they sound away from the stage having heard a number of gigs in the 90s from two bands whose bassists used them.
As always, just my opinion.
Quote from: Aussie Mark on March 26, 2013, 11:49:38 PM
The Henry was in the SWR range for more than 10 years, so I don't think that's why it was discontinued. I imagine the trend to lightweight neo-equipped cabs was one of the reasons. I'm not the only bassist I know who would jump at a neo Henry that weighed say 60-70lbs.
The usual reason is that sales weren't high enough. AFAIK it was never as good a seller as their various Goliath cabs that are still in the line.
The custom 8" drivers proved too expensive once cabinet production left the US. After they used up existing stock, Fender (who owns SWR) quit building them. My experience with them mirrors Dave's, though for me that was not necessarily a negative. I LOVED doing PA/TV for bands using them because the bass sound rarely did anything unwanted outside of rattling snares. Most players were surprised at that I generally never told them to turn down and sometimes, to turn UP. They wouldn't work for me, but for others who liked them, I can see the appeal.
Quote from: drbassman on March 27, 2013, 08:16:02 AM
True, but the builder is the local "go to" amp/speaker tech in the region, so his knowledge and skill has been confirmed a lot over the last couple decades. He hand builds his guitar/bass amps and cabs and people buy/love em. I just just coudn't get the 4x10 to work for me. Not a big deal.
...just don't expect every 4x10 to perform like that. I have an Acme Low B that will re-arrange your guts and two Gibson GB-410's that have very little low end (they're the forerunners of the SWR Goliath).
I never imagined that every 4x10 cab sounds like every other one. There are so many variables in the design and execution of such, I know that no two brands/models are alike. There's a lot of hit and miss in finding something that works for oneself.