Quick question.
While I'm loving the overall feel of the new non-reverse, I am a tad disappointed with the sound. Considering it shares the same pickups/circuitry/heritage as the reverse models, by comparison I'm finding the output [edit] to be muddy. I have three other TBs of various vintage all of which have a much wider tonal range.
Anyone experiencing the same?
Cheers
P
I can't compare it to a current T-bird but the NRs are set neck rather than neck through. That could account for some of it. I would guess it's more equivalent to a studio Thunderbird than to a regular T-bird.
Quote from: planetgaffnet on March 06, 2013, 06:37:34 AM
Quick question.
I have three other TBs of various vintage...
Cheers
P
Specific years of your TBirds could help narrow the reasons, besides string and setup differences (most importantly distance of pickups from strings).
The TBs are a 97', '04 and a '00 Gothic. All are fitted with Hipshot Supertone bridges. Strings are minty fresh D'Addario EXL 170s.
I've been adjusting the pickups up and down since it arrived and to be honest nothing has really made any difference. Hardly any top and quite farty.
I'm going to take a peak into the control cavity in a few minutes...
P
Mine new NR is not like that at all. Plenty of beef and sparkle. I'm actually rolling the bridge pick up and tone off a bit. I love this bass, have totally bonded with it.
Although I haven't heard the NR, this sounds like an electronics problem. The output should not be low.
If I could be so bold, listen to this - or more to the point from about the 50 second mark - I'm not looking for a critique of my playing as this is simply a work in progress, just the tone):
http://www.chevril.com/nancyjohnson/media/july2012/15 - 190211 (NV).mp3 (http://www.chevril.com/nancyjohnson/media/july2012/15%20-%20190211%20(NV).mp3)
This is my 2004 Thunderbird. My set up generally involves going into a Sansamp and this is pretty much the sound I get straight out of the box (irrespective of the bass). Plug in the NR and zilch...there's no drive whatsoever. I'm not saying that there's no output volume, there is, but it's completely flat.
By way of a test, I desoldered the tone pot a few minutes ago and the tone is just as muddy across both pickups. Weird.
Guess I might take it over to a tech I know this weekend.
P
I've noticed quite a bit of variance in the output and tone of modern TB+ pups. My '00 Blackbirds pups are very hot, and much darker than compared to the stock pups that came in my 2007 IV. The IV always sound weak and midrangey by comaprison. I bought a set of pups from Denis as replacmeents, and they are 80-90% closer to the Blackbird. My Studio 5'er is somewhere in between. Before I swapped the pups in the IV I tried messing with the electronics, including different pots, tone capacitors, wiring configs - but it was all the same. Only changing the pups helped me.
Mine sounds great, and certianly doesn't suffer from a low output. In fact it's quite the opposite, I lowered the pickups to tone it down a bit.
Now if I can just get it to shed a few pounds. It is heavy, too heavy for me to play a four hour gig with it.
I got curious...My NR is just as hot as my '11 Reverse with the pickup height the same. Definately seems like something might be amiss with yours...
I've spoken to my tech guy and am dropping it over next Tuesday. He asked me a couple of questions which will probably make some sense.
First up he asked, by way of comparison, if one of my other TBs had a tonal range of 1-100 (with lower number being the bass end of things tonally) where does the NR sit. I said there was no top end and would say the available range was low-bass to low-mids (ie 20-40).
He also asked whether raising or lowering the pickups makes any difference. I countered this by saying the output wasn't an issue (it's loud). Raising the pickups just sent a hotter signal to the amp causing it to clip/fart.
Where we're at now is that he's going to remove everything from the pots and start from scratch. He thinks it's probably just bad wiring.
Fingers crossed!
P
Yes, there must be something amiss here. I played mine side by side with the B&CH and a sixties Non Rev. True, the Reissue is bassier, but not weaker than the other two, in fact the output signal is a little higher. It does sound bassier than a reg Rev TBird, but that is owed to the set neck and a much thicker body.
Uwe...there's nothing but mid-lows, no top whatsoever. I feel a bit of a cock as I didn't really notice as I'd been playing the new one pretty much exclusively since it arrived. Maybe my first post could have been better phrased, the output is fine (viz. it's as loud as my other basses), but tonally it's awful.
I've gone through a plethora of basses previously...Fender, Gibson, Warwick, Hamer etc. different woods, bolt on set neck, neck through, but none of them sounded this bad.
I thank everyone for their input. I'll report back next Tuesday.
P
i wonder if the pickups are out of phase?
Quote from: chordzilla on March 08, 2013, 07:55:27 PM
i wonder if the pickups are out of phase?
How would I determine this? Anyhow, I'll give it 48 hours! I'm not planning on rehearsing in that time.
P
Quote from: planetgaffnet on March 10, 2013, 04:41:25 AM
How would I determine this? Anyhow, I'll give it 48 hours! I'm not planning on rehearsing in that time.
P
The usual description of out of phase tone is "thin and nasal". You need a multimeter to test it, your tech guy will probably do it if he suspects that's the problem.
Quote from: Dave W on March 10, 2013, 08:33:25 AM
The usual description of out of phase tone is "thin and nasal". You need a multimeter to test it, your tech guy will probably do it if he suspects that's the problem.
You can also solo the pickups.
With the pickups (in their present wiring configuration), mud and mud. Maybe I'm being too hard here.
I just feel embarrassed that I didn't realise there was an issue. :-[
P
Well I'm back...
Dropped the NR off at my tech this morning and picked it up about an hour ago. (I took along my '04 for comparison purposes as well.)
First off, nothing awry with the wiring, untidy, but OK. While I was there, he desoldered the pickups and ran these individually straight into an amp and there was a dramatic difference (tone!). He measured the pots and these metered at a spit over 300K (they should have been 500K minimum), so it's no wonder the treble/presence was being sucked out of the bass. He's replaced all three pots and put a new cap in on the tone and problem is pretty much sorted. In closing, he also said it might be worth adjusting pickup heights next time I'm rehearsing.
I got home and ran the bass through my set up and the results were staggering; tonally it now shares a similar character to my '04, but hotter (which I can live with I guess!).
So there you are, hopefully problem solved! Woop!
Thanks for your input!
P
Quote from: planetgaffnet on March 12, 2013, 10:00:23 AM
Well I'm back...
Dropped the NR off at my tech this morning and picked it up about an hour ago. (I took along my '04 for comparison purposes as well.)
First off, nothing awry with the wiring, untidy, but OK. While I was there, he desoldered the pickups and ran these individually straight into an amp and there was a dramatic difference (tone!). He measured the pots and these metered at a spit over 300K (they should have been 500K minimum), so it's no wonder the treble/presence was being sucked out of the bass. He's replaced all three pots and put a new cap in on the tone and problem is pretty much sorted. In closing, he also said it might be worth adjusting pickup heights next time I'm rehearsing.
I got home and ran the bass through my set up and the results were staggering; tonally it now shares a similar character to my '04, but hotter (which I can live with I guess!).
So there you are, hopefully problem solved! Woop!
Thanks for your input!
P
I'm happy for you that the problem is solved, but FYI Gibson has used 300K linear taper pots on many models since the 1970s. I don't know if this is one of them. It's possible that 500K audio taper pots were specified for this model and 300K linear were substituted by mistake. If so, that would explain it. If not, maybe there was another problem either with the pots or the soldering that caused the tone problem.
That consoles me. The TB Plus soapies have in fact become hotter over time. The last raise in hotness which took place some years ago came at a little too high price - for my taste - of clarity. You can't really "degrowl" them anymore.
Just curious as to when this last rise in hotness came to be? I have a '94 Les Paul with the black plastic TB+ and it's smokin! And I can get a nice, percussive Stanley Clarke tone out of it depending on how I play, so there is plenty of clarity. I think the ebony 'board contributes to that.
There was an output hike in 2006 at the expense of clarity touted at the time as "new design TB Plus pick-ups". If you go back all the way to the inception of the TB Plus pups 1986/87 the output of those is laughable to what you hear today, on my pre-regular production Custom Shop Bird even puny (and approaching Fender tone).