The Last Bass Outpost

Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: uwe on September 29, 2011, 11:20:31 AM

Title: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: uwe on September 29, 2011, 11:20:31 AM
the specs of the upcoming Flying V Bass reissue will be:


Body; Mahogany
Neck: Mahogany (SG Bass profile, Grabber peghead)
Fingerboard: Preciosa  :-X
Scale: 30.5" / 20 Frets / Dot Inlays
Finish: Cherry (walnut filler)
Tuners: Chrome Shamrock
Knobs: Black Top Hat w/insert tone/vol
Controls: 2 Vol/ 1 Tone
Pickups: Dual Chrome covered TB Plus
Case: Hardshell V Bass case

Now don't soil your panties because of the chromies, girls! I would have preferred a long scale version, but of course a Flying V longscale is a mammoth bass in length. Maho and TB Plus. A trusted recipe.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Basvarken on September 29, 2011, 11:33:21 AM
So I can add another four pages to the book?  :o
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: OldManC on September 29, 2011, 12:00:14 PM
That's one step closer to a "vintage" spec bird being put in the lineup...
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: uwe on September 29, 2011, 12:00:26 PM
Rob, this is just like the Ostfeldzug, with the right hardware (= Dutch bikes) Endsieg is always imminent.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: uwe on September 29, 2011, 12:02:10 PM
Quote from: OldManC on September 29, 2011, 12:00:14 PM
That's one step closer to a "vintage" spec bird being put in the lineup...

Isn't there an unrepaired SB still lurking in the Carlston household? You won't get another shortie if you don't tend to that one, I tell you!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: OldManC on September 29, 2011, 12:19:03 PM
Even that one is long scale, Uwe. My only shorty is my Triumph. You're right though; I do need to get to that SB some day. Then again, I have another assignment that's even more pressing...
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: lowend1 on September 29, 2011, 12:21:31 PM
When will Gibson learn that...
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y247/lowend1/IMG_0973copy.jpg)
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Dave W on September 29, 2011, 03:01:55 PM
Quote from: lowend1 on September 29, 2011, 12:21:31 PM
When will Gibson learn that...
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y247/lowend1/IMG_0973copy.jpg)

They're really not even trying to do that much. They're just throwing TB Plus pickups into it.

Not that I blame them. Sometime in the next couple of years they'll need a hefty defense fund for all the execs.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: uwe on September 29, 2011, 07:22:30 PM
Quote from: OldManC on September 29, 2011, 12:19:03 PM
Even that one is long scale, Uwe. My only shorty is my Triumph. You're right though; I do need to get to that SB some day. Then again, I have another assignment that's even more pressing...

Herr Carlston, you know the rule. Without photographic evidence posted here that Donnervogel never even arrived with you so how could you forward it?  8)

And turning on turd: Switching from alder/maple to full maho is more than a cosmetic change and could make a lot of dif on ze litte Vergeltungswaffe, I was never happy with the original wood combo and it was one of the reasons why the Epi Flying V sounded better as that was full (albeit mock)-maho too.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Droombolus on September 30, 2011, 03:02:16 AM
Quote from: OldManC on September 29, 2011, 12:00:14 PM
That's one step closer to a "vintage" spec bird being put in the lineup...

Not necessarily. For all we know they'll put the same PUPs on zee Flying Vee as they put on the SG and the LP Jr. DC Basses......
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: uwe on September 30, 2011, 03:29:05 AM
I've heard the look of the pups will be new.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: lowend1 on September 30, 2011, 05:14:22 AM
Quote from: uwe on September 29, 2011, 07:22:30 PM
And turning on turd: Switching from alder/maple to full maho is more than a cosmetic change and could make a lot of dif on ze litte Vergeltungswaffe, I was never happy with the original wood combo and it was one of the reasons why the Epi Flying V sounded better as that was full (albeit mock)-maho too.

Wasn't the body on the Epi a little thicker as well?
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: uwe on September 30, 2011, 07:55:51 AM
That I don't know.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Barklessdog on September 30, 2011, 12:00:15 PM
I remember a thread Dave posted in about how a V shaped body does not resonate the same as other bodies, thus the lack lust tone of most v shaped guitars.

I can't think of one v shaped guitar or bass that was ever a sought after tone.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: uwe on September 30, 2011, 12:08:30 PM
It's something people want to have chiefly for the look and I'm not counting myself out.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: lowend1 on September 30, 2011, 02:24:09 PM
Quote from: uwe on September 30, 2011, 12:08:30 PM
It's something people want to have chiefly for the look and I'm not counting myself out.

Shhhh - stop now or hell post a picture of that Dean thingie again ;D
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: OldManC on September 30, 2011, 07:46:51 PM
As Uwe has mentioned before, Vs really work in two guitar bands because there seems to be more sonic space when you add the V as one of the guitars fighting to be heard in that spectrum. Michael Schenker seemed to use his to good effect (though he seems always to have had that half open wah in the mix as well).
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Dave W on September 30, 2011, 10:27:15 PM
Quote from: Barklessdog on September 30, 2011, 12:00:15 PM
I remember a thread Dave posted in about how a V shaped body does not resonate the same as other bodies, thus the lack lust tone of most v shaped guitars.

I can't think of one v shaped guitar or bass that was ever a sought after tone.

It was an Explorer, but yes, there was a difference between that and a traditional body shape. I imagine a nontraditional shape like a V would also be different.

The pages are still up: Research on the Acoustics of Guitars  (http://www.kettering.edu/physics/drussell/guitars/index.html)
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: uwe on October 01, 2011, 10:32:01 AM
Explorers sound just fine as basses in my ears, but then they have a lot more wood towards the neck than a Flying V has.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: ilan on October 02, 2011, 12:16:52 AM
Excellent read, Dave, thanks for the link.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Pilgrim on October 02, 2011, 12:09:00 PM
After carefully reviewing all the graphs linked to that article, I have concluded that they are indeed graphs.  ???  8)

More beer, please.  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Dave W on October 02, 2011, 01:58:56 PM
Quote from: Pilgrim on October 02, 2011, 12:09:00 PM
After carefully reviewing all the graphs linked to that article, I have concluded that they are indeed graphs.  ???  8)

More beer, please.  :mrgreen:

Good idea.  :)

They do show differences though, even if you and I don't understand what they mean.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Psycho Bass Guy on October 02, 2011, 07:15:31 PM
Think of them as peaks and nodes of an impulse model for a convolution reverb. As complicated as that sounds, that's exactly how expensive reverbs model famous rooms' acoustic characteristics. However, that test is far from an accurate respresentation on how body shape will affect overall tone because it is testing merely an impact resonance and not vibrational torsion from the strings being played.  Simple mechanical physics dictates that differently shaped wooden bodies are going to resonate differently without the graphs. All those tests showed was where in their bodies that resonance flexing occurs.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: uwe on October 06, 2011, 04:43:30 PM
Voilà - a first sneak pic, just a snapshot, not an official promo, so don't be too harsh please. Does what it says on the tin I guess, but I'm underwhelmed, no great fan of a white pg that huge, I'd have preferred black on red/cherry.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/uwehornung/BAFVCHCH1.jpg)
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Dave W on October 06, 2011, 09:46:31 PM
I didn't really expect anything different. At least it's not an inverted V.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Iome on October 07, 2011, 12:51:55 AM
Was the pic taken in the official Gibson workshop?

Nice, i agree with Uwe, it would look better with a black pg. Are those the same p.u.'s as in the Les Paul?
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Psycho Bass Guy on October 07, 2011, 01:27:37 AM
It's missing two tuners.  ;)
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Basvarken on October 07, 2011, 02:44:00 AM
I miss the "shoulders" (where the neck meets the body) of the classic flying v shape.

Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: uwe on October 07, 2011, 05:14:15 AM
Quote from: Iome on October 07, 2011, 12:51:55 AM
Was the pic taken in the official Gibson workshop?

Yes, by the staff photographer as a favor to me from a guy with Gibson I met at Messe Frankfurt and who actually answers emails!

Nice, i agree with Uwe, it would look better with a black pg. Are those the same p.u.'s as in the Les Paul?

My info is that they were especially designed for this bass which is why it took a while, but if the size is right they might be the standard TP Plus chromies.

Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: wagdog on October 07, 2011, 08:23:33 AM
I voted white pg in the poll but after seeing this picture I recant that position.  Yuck!  Maybe parchment though...

Quote from: Basvarken on October 07, 2011, 02:44:00 AM
I miss the "shoulders" (where the neck meets the body) of the classic flying v shape.

You're right.  I never would have noticed that but it does make a difference.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Barklessdog on October 07, 2011, 08:29:35 AM
It's easy to change a pickguard you know?
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: gearHed289 on October 07, 2011, 08:46:45 AM
Quote from: wagdog on October 07, 2011, 08:23:33 AM
I voted white pg in the poll but after seeing this picture I recant that position.  Yuck!  Maybe parchment though...

You're right.  I never would have noticed that but it does make a difference.

+2

Specially designed pickups? Hmm.....
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Dave W on October 07, 2011, 08:48:43 AM
Quote from: gearHed289 on October 07, 2011, 08:46:45 AM

Specially designed pickups? Hmm.....

I'll bet a chrome cover on a TB Plus qualifies as specially designed.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: uwe on December 02, 2011, 05:28:57 AM
Thanks to Scott and the good people of the HoG I now have one to play: First impression: Neatly done (truss rod rattles at one frequency, but that can happen with any bass and is easily adjusted) and it has nice sustain even when played unplugged. No comparison to the alder body/maple neck predecessors from 1981 which always sounded a little dead - here you can feel the tone in your hands through the fretboard. Plugged it is surprisingly phat with a strong E string, but given the maho and short scale mix it is not  a bass sound that will slice through the music, like, say, a Ric does. But it will certainly fill things up without being billowing and add goodnatured warmth in traditional Gibbie style. Similar to an SG RI actually and with none of the nasal middish emphasis of the 81 model. Maho does make a difference obviously.

Will probably take it out to the next rehearsal together with the 81 V for a better comparison.

Uwe
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: SKATE RAT on December 02, 2011, 07:17:57 AM
and a side by side photo please
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Dave W on December 02, 2011, 09:04:25 AM
Quote from: SKATE RAT on December 02, 2011, 07:17:57 AM
and a side by side photo please

I'd also be interested in hearing short sound samples of each through the same rig.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: TBird1958 on December 02, 2011, 09:21:44 AM


Will you be wearing a spiked collar and those fabulous chaps we spoke of for these *rehearsals*?.......
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Chris P. on December 02, 2011, 10:07:56 AM
I want one!
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: TBird1958 on December 02, 2011, 10:17:52 AM

A spiked collar?
Schatzi, how could I forget?  Perhaps for Christmas  ;)
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Barklessdog on December 02, 2011, 12:33:05 PM
Quote from: Chris P. on December 02, 2011, 10:07:56 AM
I want one!

Agreed looks really nice. A chrome pickguard would be cool.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: godofthunder on December 03, 2011, 12:08:03 PM
 I really like the cherry and white, reminds me of the '67 V, my favorite. I want one bad. Uwe please write a bad review and save me from myself.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: mc2NY on December 03, 2011, 03:18:11 PM
Since Gibson refuses to make an 8-string....

(http://home.earthlink.net/~mc2/images/V8_3.jpg)
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: godofthunder on December 03, 2011, 03:23:56 PM
Cool bass, the fungus is grossing me out though.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: SKATE RAT on December 05, 2011, 05:01:59 AM
is it just me or does the new cherry V look like it needs pickup rings. without them the pups look too high. i think visually it needs them. my $.02
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: uwe on December 05, 2011, 06:20:33 AM
Pick up rings on a pick guard - that's kind of belt and suspenders, but you're right, the body is low and the pups high, but of course that also has advantages for getting good action without the three point going too low.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: SKATE RAT on December 05, 2011, 05:15:59 PM
my T-40 has rings on a guard. looks fine.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: uwe on December 06, 2011, 03:47:04 AM
Mine too, but look how heavy the thing is because of it!  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: SKATE RAT on December 06, 2011, 06:22:43 PM
so thats why it's so heavy.  ???
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: uwe on December 08, 2011, 03:16:43 AM
Quote from: Dave W on December 02, 2011, 09:04:25 AM
I'd also be interested in hearing short sound samples of each through the same rig.

Dave will soon quench the thirst of all those waiting for this ...
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ... (Uwe's comments italicized!)
Post by: Dave W on December 08, 2011, 08:35:42 AM
Let's see if this works.

Ah, and how it does, gracias, Dave, may I kidnap this posting now?  :mrgreen: The red ("rot") 2011 all maho V with TB Plus pups was played at the same setting and volume over my SVT rig as the white ("weiss") 1981 maple neck and alder body V with Ripper pups.

2011: DivShare File - Flying V rot.mp3 (http://www.divshare.com/download/16339111-5a5)

1981: DivShare File - Flying V weiss.mp3 (http://www.divshare.com/download/16339117-3c7)

Of course, outputwise the Ripper pups don't stand a chance against the TB Plus ones but the difference is not just volume. The new V sounds much phatter than the old one, more tonal eveness, more prominent D and G and more singing sustain. The wonders of maho so to say. The new V sounds as good as other all maho-shorties from Gibson of recent times, i.e. SG RI, SG Supreme, Short Scale TBird and Junior. Full and warm, but without much attack, but that is the price of building a short scale maho bass. In my mind, I would expect an all-out rock shape bass like a V to sound sharpish and more assertive, which this bass cannot do. It sounds warm, cozy and musical.

Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: godofthunder on December 08, 2011, 03:07:44 PM
Yeah The new V sounds very musical! The '81 sounds just as lackluster as I remember.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: uwe on December 08, 2011, 05:18:47 PM
Lackluster is the most fitting description I have ever heard for the sound of the eighties Vs. Brilliant.

You'd think nothing could go too much wrong when piecing a block of alder together with a maple neck - I mean lesser brands do it all the time -, but in this case it sure did.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Dave W on December 08, 2011, 11:07:21 PM
That's my impression too.

Tone always comes from a combination of things but in this case I'd say it's more the Ripper pickups than the woods. Even so, I'd still rather have a mahogany body than alder.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Barklessdog on December 09, 2011, 05:43:31 AM
I thought the new V sounded better as well a bit more bite & distortion to the tone (much like LP ) pickups.

Sounds like a winner. Is the bass versitle though?
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: uwe on December 09, 2011, 11:16:37 AM
Versatile is a big word. Are maho Gibsons and short scales to boot ever really versatile? Will someone buying a Flying V of all basses care for versatility? You are typecast with that bass no matter what the sound. Assless chaps indeed.

It's not a one-trick-pony, but certainly not more versatile than a long scale TB. You do get that one tonal coloring no matter how you combine the two pups.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Chris P. on December 10, 2011, 06:47:03 AM
I think my SG Reissue Bass (Gibson, short scale ánd mahogany) is one of my most versatile basses. On the front pickup woolly, woody and mellow and on the bridge pickup Fender-ish. That are the only two sounds I need. And it has one more than a P:)
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: uwe on December 11, 2011, 12:22:08 PM
It's probably me - I never look for more than one sound on a single bass. Once I've found one, I give up further search.

The SG RI is certainly more versatile than the muddies of yore.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Dave W on December 11, 2011, 11:19:28 PM
The SG Reissue doesn't have 2 TB Plus pickups either, and for that matter, the neck pickup is different from a regular TB Plus because the coils are so widely spaced.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: exiledarchangel on December 12, 2011, 10:11:20 AM
Quote from: Dave W on December 11, 2011, 11:19:28 PM
The SG Reissue doesn't have 2 TB Plus pickups either, and for that matter, the neck pickup is different from a regular TB Plus because the coils are so widely spaced.

Also it has a big aluminum spacer in there that blurrs the tone as experts say.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Dave W on December 12, 2011, 11:07:33 PM
Which experts? I've never heard that. Possible, of course, but the wide spacing between the coils is most likely responsible. It means that the pickup senses a much larger portion of the string, which usually means reduced clarity.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: exiledarchangel on December 13, 2011, 03:09:21 AM
I have seen a pic of the new SG neck pickup without the cover, its coils are spaced apart and between them theres a T-shaped aluminium thingie that polepieces screw on it. I hope it makes sense, still trying to remember where I have seen that photo...

edit: yeppers, found it!

(http://music-electronics-forum.com/attachments/15585d1317589638-sg_basspu.jpg)
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: uwe on December 13, 2011, 05:12:48 AM
You EURO nemesis, have I told you yet that your fruity avatars never fail to scale new heights?  :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: exiledarchangel on December 13, 2011, 05:15:21 AM
Its a proof that two girls can be friends and share things.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Dave W on December 13, 2011, 08:53:12 AM
I knew there was a spacer there, I'm just saying that's probably not what's responsible for the change in sound from the original TB Plus. It's the coil separation.

If the spacer were iron or steel, it would have a noticeable effect.
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: uwe on December 13, 2011, 09:01:44 AM
I only just now realized this:

"Er sagt, er nicht wegen Lackierungen sammelt!"


:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Dave W on December 13, 2011, 09:06:14 AM
He has you figured out.  ;D
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: uwe on December 13, 2011, 12:26:39 PM
Dances with Wolves, errrm, Collects not for Fins!
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: exiledarchangel on December 13, 2011, 01:49:24 PM
Quote from: Dave W on December 13, 2011, 08:53:12 AM
I knew there was a spacer there, I'm just saying that's probably not what's responsible for the change in sound from the original TB Plus. It's the coil separation.

If the spacer were iron or steel, it would have a noticeable effect.

Ofcourse the coil separation plays the biggest role here, but eddy currents because of that aluminum thingie helps blurriness. I'm not sure if aluminum is worst comparing to iron or brass on this.

@ Uwe: guess who's got his first Zertifikat in Deutsch :D
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: uwe on December 13, 2011, 02:44:05 PM
Ich bin stolz auf Dich, alter Grieche!!!
Title: Re: A little bird sang to me that ...
Post by: Dave W on December 13, 2011, 07:22:12 PM
Quote from: exiledarchangel on December 13, 2011, 01:49:24 PM
Ofcourse the coil separation plays the biggest role here, but eddy currents because of that aluminum thingie helps blurriness. I'm not sure if aluminum is worst comparing to iron or brass on this.

...


I checked with Eddy, he says his current has nothing to do with it.  ;D

Eddy currents could have some effect here, but AFAIK it's just speculation. The coil separation is a proven effect. Anyway, I'm no expert, but I thought excess eddy currents caused loss of output and loss of highs, not blurriness.