The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Outpost Cafe => Topic started by: Chaser001 on May 10, 2011, 09:50:03 AM
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The Green Thing
In the line at the store, the cashier told the older woman that she should bring her own grocery bag because plastic bags were not good for the environment. The woman apologized to him and explained, "We didn't have the green thing back in my day."
The clerk responded, "That's our problem today. The former generation did not care enough to save our environment."
He was right, they didn't have the green thing back then.
Back then, they returned their milk bottles, soda bottles and beer bottles to the store. The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over. So they really were recycled.
But they didn't have the green thing back in that customer's day.
In her day, they walked up stairs, because they didn't have an escalator or elevator in every store and office building.
But she was right. They didn't have the green thing in her day.
Back then, they washed the baby's diapers because they didn't have the disposable kind. They dried clothes on a line, not in an energy gobbling machine burning up 220 volts. Wind and solar power really did dry the clothes. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand new clothing.
But she was right. They didn't have the green thing back in her day.
Back then, they had one TV, or radio, in the house, not a TV in every room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief, not a screen the size of the state of Texas. In the kitchen, they blended and stirred by hand because they didn't have electric machines to do everything for you. When they packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, they used a wadded up old newspaper to cushion it, not styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap.
But she's right, they didn't have the green thing back then.
Back then, they didn't fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the lawn. They used a push mower that ran on human power. They exercised by working so they didn't need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity.
But she was right, they didn't have the green thing back then.
They drank from a fountain when they were thirsty instead of using a plastic cup or a plastic bottle every time they had a drink of water. They refilled their writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and they replaced the razor blades in a razor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull.
But she was right, they didn't have the green thing back then.
Back then, people took the streetcar or a bus and kids rode their bikes to school or walked instead of turning their moms into a 24-hour taxi service. They had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances. And they didn't need a high tech gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites out in space in order to find the nearest pizza joint.
But isn't it sad the current generation laments about how wasteful the previous generation was just because they didn't have the green thing back then?
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the streetcar? how far back does this go. i'm old enough to remember all the labor intensive 'green' things you point out that people did because they had no other choice. i prefer things today with that new pesky green thing to deal with.
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Good points.
Of course, before we had 'that green thing" we kept the dust down on the road in front of our house by pouring old motor oil on the road, got rid of excess pesticide mix by pouring it out, and routed the sewers into the river instead of treating the sewage.
There's plenty to be said on both sides.
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the streetcar? how far back does this go. i'm old enough to remember all the labor intensive 'green' things you point out that people did because they had no other choice. i prefer things today with that new pesky green thing to deal with.
Yes, I also prefer things the way they are now. Also, I tend to relate to people at least ten years younger for some reason. However, it would be my guess that whoever wrote that is probably about 70 and if you look at it from his perspective, he may have some valid points.
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True and false.
But the American Buffalo herds were not eradicated by the people preaching "green" today.
Every generation commits its own sins. For Germany I can certainly attest that our rivers are cleaner today than they have been in a long time. In the early seventies the heavily polluted Main river in Fankfurt only carried two species of very hardy to the point of being indestructible fish - theses days we're back to 25 species (including salmon and sturgeon).
But like with anything you can get carried away with the "green thing" and environmentalism too. Whenever I read of Western criticism of the economic and infrastructural (less than environment-friendly) mammoth projects in South American and Asian countries it smacks a bit of colonialism to me. We were relent- and ruthess in shaping our environments to our needs and now we're telling other people to hold back, for us the high standard of living and comfort, for them the untouched Garden Eden we get to visit when we feel like it. I am not aware that the green movement in the US is advocating to break down the Hoover Dan in order to renaturalize the environment there or to cut the LA region off the water supplies it sucks off from the hinterlands. Nor that Germany should deconstruct cities, towns and villages so we can have more natural forest again.
I'm not anti-green or anti-conservationist, but it all has to be done with measure. And those who have conserved very little (and feel justly guilty now) are not always the greatest advisors to those who haven't developed as quickly.
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Yes, I also prefer things the way they are now. Also, I tend to relate to people at least ten years younger for some reason. However, it would be my guess that whoever wrote that is probably about 70 and if you look at it from his perspective, he may have some valid points.
70? More like 120! ;D
I was born during Harry Truman's first term. :o We had power mowers, electric dryers, dixie cups, kitchen-aid mixers and other countertop appliances. We did have returnable bottles and cloth diapers, but they took water and electricity to wash.
"people took the streetcar or a bus" ??? In what alternative universe? Public transportation ridership is higher today in most places.
OTOH the middle class standard of living we had when I was growing up would warm the cockles of a social worker's heart today. We have much more today, possessions and convenience. That has its good and bad points.
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I was born during Harry Truman's first term. :o We had power mowers, electric dryers, dixie cups, kitchen-aid mixers and other countertop appliances. We did have returnable bottles and cloth diapers, but they took water and electricity to wash.
I was born when JFK was president. It's nice that you had money for those luxuries Dave. We had a push mower, clothes line, and real glass glasses. Back then life was not very easy if you were a person of color. I can't recall how many times I was called a racial slur when I was growing up. I'm hispanic and a 4th generation Texan but still had to put up with crap like that. Back in '71 my Mom was registering me in a new school in South Texas. The (white) principal asked my Mom if we were migrant workers. :rolleyes:
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I was born in 1950, and being in a white middle class family living in a college town, we were pretty middle-America Disney-esque. I have learned that the 50's and 60's were a better period for you if you were white and middle class. The monolithic US society that many would posit existed at that time was not as monolithic as we might imagine.
I've lived in the West since age 10, and I've never been in a town that had good public transportation if you had any interest in getting from point A to B in any efficient mode. Fort Collins where I live now is a fantastic town that tries and does many things well - but if I want to take a bus to work, it requires a half-mile walk to the nearest bus stop, and a 40-minute transit time including a transfer. In contrast, I can drive it in 10 minutes or less, and bike it in 15.
Such things as public transportation will require a massive investment before (if) they are practical means of travel in much of the US. Heck, I'd love to see a reasonable passenger train service again, but Amtrak has never been funded well enough to do anything more than twist in the wind, and train travel costs twice as much as air travel and takes days longer.
Green, we really ain't yet.
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The big difference (from my perspective) is that people are much more willing to waste these days, and manufacturers gladly oblige by building stuff that you can't fix easily or economically. Repair a DVD player lately? How long did your last dishwasher or oven last? How much was the repair vs a new unit? Being conservative in its purest sense has nothing to do with a political ideology, but rather is a willingness to forego the instant gratification in order to play for the long haul. Unfortunately, our whole society is set up to get it done fast rather than to get it done properly. Yes, there are plenty of advantages to the way things are these days, but much has been lost as well - and that might be the really important stuff.
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I was born when JFK was president. It's nice that you had money for those luxuries Dave. We had a push mower, clothes line, and real glass glasses. Back then life was not very easy if you were a person of color. I can't recall how many times I was called a racial slur when I was growing up. I'm hispanic and a 4th generation Texan but still had to put up with crap like that. Back in '71 my Mom was registering me in a new school in South Texas. The (white) principal asked my Mom if we were migrant workers. :rolleyes:
I hear you, Robert. And while it's much better now, it's still not equal.
My point was that whoever wrote this apparently thinks a lot of things didn't exist back then that actually did. No doubt you would see them as luxuries if you grew up struggling to make ends meet. But we were right in the middle of what was then middle class, living in a neighborhood of cheap postwar GI homes. It was a long long way from well-to-do, yet many of these things were common in our lives.
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The big difference (from my perspective) is that people are much more willing to waste these days, and manufacturers gladly oblige by building stuff that you can't fix easily or economically
So true-look at printers, they give them away, but get you on the ink cartridges. Not worth even worth having someone look at. Cars are pretty much disposable if you get in any accident-they are meant to fold to be safer, however, to repair them usually is not worth the value of the car. Anything electronic is pretty much disposable.
Apple has been pretty good about recycling as far as your I Pod dies, they give you an Identical refurbished one, no forms to fill out, no headaches. They just take your old one to be recycled or refurbished.
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When it comes to anything disposable, you have to look at the whole picture. There are costs and resources used when something is non-disposable, including the manufacture of replacement parts.
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When it comes to anything disposable, you have to look at the whole picture. There are costs and resources used when something is non-disposable, including the manufacture of replacement parts.
Yes. Car manufacturers are stuck providing replacement parts for all kinds of obscure items, and it's a wonder they keep up with it.
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I still like to keep the Rs in mind: Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. I've shipped 11 JAEbirds including 2 to other continents without buying any packing material except tape.
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The big difference (from my perspective) is that people are much more willing to waste these days, and manufacturers gladly oblige by building stuff that you can't fix easily or economically. Repair a DVD player lately? How long did your last dishwasher or oven last? How much was the repair vs a new unit? Being conservative in its purest sense has nothing to do with a political ideology, but rather is a willingness to forego the instant gratification in order to play for the long haul. Unfortunately, our whole society is set up to get it done fast rather than to get it done properly. Yes, there are plenty of advantages to the way things are these days, but much has been lost as well - and that might be the really important stuff.
When my 1961 RCA/Whirlpool refrigerator died I managed to find an old guy who was willing to work on it. I didn't want to either buy a new one OR get rid of this one, plus I figure that since it's worked well for longer than I've been alive it deserved a chance to keep on living. Now I'm happy to say it's working well and I didn't have to throw something into a landfill somewhere.
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Energy efficiency requirements are part of the reason major appliances aren't built to last as long, e.g. having to use a smaller direct drive motor to conserve energy instead of the larger belt drive setup. The problem is, when you have to scrap the appliance earlier because it will cost too much repair, the energy you saved may be wiped out by the energy used to to manufacture a new one sooner.
Another example: according to an appliance repairman I used to know, manufacturing the igniters for a gas stove uses more energy than the stove would save over a 25 year lifespan using igniters instead of old fashioned pilot lights. Plus the igniters only have a 10-15 year lifespan.
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In most of the places in the world I've been they use a barbeque lighter thingy (either butane or a flint type) which eliminates both the pilot light and the igniter, Simple, effective and cheap.
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People who saw my old fridge nearly ALWAYS mentioned how much money I could save on my power bill if I replaced it with a new one. Okay, that makes sense on the face of it, but if you think about it longer and figure the replacement fridge equivalent to mine would have been over $700. If it brought my power bill down from $60/month to $50, the fridge would pay for itself in what, 70 months or 5 years 8 months?
Knowing how many people have told me their most recent refrigerators have lasted anywhere between 2 and 4 years (nearly always a failed compressor was to blame) there was no way it made sense to buy a new fridge.
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Yes, but do you need that large a fridge? I'm a one person household, a 10 cu ft fridge is perfectly adequate and uses half the power of the 70's era one it replaced. It's paying for itself pretty quickly. Probably didn't cost more than twice the repair bill for your old one. A full fridge also operates more efficiently than one that's half full, another reason to have a size that meets your needs and nothing larger. Toose giant fridges do fail quickly it seems.
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Yes, but do you need that large a fridge? I'm a one person household, a 10 cu ft fridge is perfectly adequate and uses half the power of the 70's era one it replaced. It's paying for itself pretty quickly. Probably didn't cost more than twice the repair bill for your old one. A full fridge also operates more efficiently than one that's half full, another reason to have a size that meets your needs and nothing larger. Toose giant fridges do fail quickly it seems.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Yes, but do you need that large a fridge? I'm a one person household, a 10 cu ft fridge is perfectly adequate and uses half the power of the 70's era one it replaced. It's paying for itself pretty quickly. Probably didn't cost more than twice the repair bill for your old one. A full fridge also operates more efficiently than one that's half full, another reason to have a size that meets your needs and nothing larger. Toose giant fridges do fail quickly it seems.
I know some people who have two or three fridges. One in the garage, basement & kitchen. I just have one.
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I know some people who have two or three fridges. One in the garage, basement & kitchen. I just have one.
Maybe they're eating for three. A lot of people appear to be, where I live anyway.
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I'm not aware of the smaller new ones lasting any longer than the larger ones. In any case, how much more energy was used in manufacturing it to make it more efficient, vs. the older designs? As the end user, you may come out ahead with a small efficient one, and that's good -- for you. It doesn't mean that any energy or money is being saved overall.
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Maybe they're eating for three. A lot of people appear to be, where I live anyway.
Ain't that the truth!
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I'm not aware of the smaller new ones lasting any longer than the larger ones. In any case, how much more energy was used in manufacturing it to make it more efficient, vs. the older designs? As the end user, you may come out ahead with a small efficient one, and that's good -- for you. It doesn't mean that any energy or money is being saved overall.
I used to have a fridge in L.A. in the 70's I hit with a rubber mallet to start and stop the compressor. Believe me, replacing one whose only sin was running all the time and spoiling food was a big move. I researched it and made a decision based on what it would cost me and what internet reviewers said about this particular model. I have a difficult time believing the average life of a new fridge is 2 years, if that's true it would seem warranties would cost a lot more than they do. There must be some entity that tracks this stat.
I have a GE Profile convection oven, $1200 new, cost me $350 off CL. When its display started flashing a few months after I got it the internet told me what was wrong with it in less than 2 minutes and how to fix it with a piece of card stock. There's a design flaw usually fixed under warranty by replacing the entire display which doesn't fix the real problem, an intermittant short. That was over 2 years ago, still running fine.
In general I don't buy new except for computer gear and underwear.
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Yes, but do you need that large a fridge? I'm a one person household, a 10 cu ft fridge is perfectly adequate and uses half the power of the 70's era one it replaced. It's paying for itself pretty quickly. Probably didn't cost more than twice the repair bill for your old one. A full fridge also operates more efficiently than one that's half full, another reason to have a size that meets your needs and nothing larger. Toose giant fridges do fail quickly it seems.
I see your point, but not getting this old one fixed meant buying a new fridge entirely. Since that fridge was in the house when I bought it in 1996 I never saw any reason to even consider replacing it. The repair job cost me less than $300.
Also, the girlfriend moved in so there's two in the house.
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Mine was here when I bought this place in '08. The gaskets were shot so repairing it would have required more than just replacing the compressor. My new one cost $400, used weren't much cheaper.
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In general I don't buy new except for computer gear and underwear.
I can top that. I needed an extension cord the other day, one of the 99 cent ones. Instead of getting in my truck and going to the store, I made one out of the some of the few miles of scrap wire I've scrounged over the years. If I didn't have to change the litter boxes, my wife and I would produce a full can of garbage once every two or three months. It disgusts me to see one and two-person households put out four and five overflowing garbage cans every week on our collection day. The people who live close to me are too young, but in older neighborhoods I'd make a killing in spare parts and electronics just picking up from the curb what is, in a lot of cases, perfectly fine. ... our course I'd need the time and gas to do that, too.
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I have a difficult time believing the average life of a new fridge is 2 years, if that's true it would seem warranties would cost a lot more than they do. There must be some entity that tracks this stat.
I'm sure it's much longer than that on average. But they don't generally go without needing a repair as long as the old ones, and because of design changes, sometimes it's less expensive to replace.
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Grass is green, that's it...
As long as money is money and desireable there will never be "green" - business dictates profit - profit dictates turnover - turnover dictates sales - sales dictates desirability
Money is the route of almost all evil...
Imagine having enough (paper) money to be a threat to the system, march up to Fort Knox/Bank of England with it and say, "Thanks, I'll have my gold now please"
You'ld never be seen again...
The biggest technological con right now is 3DTV - how many fools will it take to realise that an HD image is an HD image, it does not need a special screen to be a 3D HD image - business demands that we need to buy the next big thing...
As I said, grass is green, but business dictates that we covet the other field forever...
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRPMetvTAYw