From time to time, I'm around people who either listen to or play rap and/or slap bass. Some of these people are close; so the last thing I'd want to do is start some kind of unnecessary debate with them or anyone else. The problem is that I don't like rap or slap bass. I've made an honest effort. On the Internet, I keep seeing two arguments over and over. They are as follows:
1. If you don't like rap, that is because you don't UNDERSTAND it. Rap is an art form, complex and taking many forms. So if you don't like it, it's only because you are listening to the worst kind, the generic pop rap found on the radio. If you delve into real rap, you'll find that it is great.
2. If you don't like slap bass, it's because you can't play it. It's the holy grail of bass technique. So, if you don't like it, it's because your're simply not good enough on bass to play it. I especially have a problem with this argument since it seems to me a sense of timing would be very important for slap bass, and timing is my strongest point. I'm sure I could spend some time trying to learn slapping. But since I don't like it in the first place, I'm just plain not interested. I've made an effort to try to see what it is in slap bass that is so fascinating to some people, but it just doesn't appeal to me. I don't like to have a closed mind about things. I may continue to listen to some of it and see what happens, but I'm not expecting to become a big fan anytime soon.
a guy at a music store once told me(while slapping) that it's taking bass playing to the next level. i have no interest in slapping so i guess i suck too. however, i find slapping on an upright enjoyable. whoa is me. :o
I slap some...just another tool in the gigbag...kinda like a flat pick.
Both arguments are moronic. Why even try to argue with morons?
Argument number 1 has nothing to do with rap in particular, I've heard it made by fans of many different genres. Sorry, I know what I like, don't insult my intelligence with your special knowledge of what (insert genre here) is really about.
Argument number 2 is almost too stupid to even begin to respond to. If you play a type of music where slap is used, then you slap when appropriate. If not, then there's no reason to, unless you're trying to be a jack of all trades and master of none.
While I love playing some classic R & B...I do slap probably 2 songs a set or so.
There is no place in my life for any kind of rap "music"...yes, I am closed minded. At my age, I am allowed to be.
Quote from: Dave W on March 24, 2011, 01:57:14 PM
Both arguments are moronic. Why even try to argue with morons?
Argument number 1 has nothing to do with rap in particular, I've heard it made by fans of many different genres. Sorry, I know what I like, don't insult my intelligence with your special knowledge of what (insert genre here) is really about.
Argument number 2 is almost too stupid to even begin to respond to. If you play a type of music where slap is used, then you slap when appropriate. If not, then there's no reason to, unless you're trying to be a jack of all trades and master of none.
I've only got into one argument about this and that was many years ago. It was on the message board of an artist. I stated pretty clearly how I felt about rap. An actual rapper got extremely upset with me. He ended up bringing in one of his friends to sabotage the entire message board. The guy was posting stuff like you would see in snuff films. It was some pretty horrible stuff. The webmaster was unable to stop him. She ended up having to close down the message board and gradually re-opened it to members who had to be carefully screened. So that was my first and last foray into arguing about this kind of thing. In real life, though, one of my closest relatives loves rap and understands that I don't like it without arguing with me about it.
I don't like liver; I don't care if anyone else does.
I can't say much for Rap.......
Slap, on the otherhand is a technique that I wish I had the skills to master.
I think this is a tasteful live example in a band context by one of my favorite artists, David Bowie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81_Jm-P83FA
Quote from: Psycho Bass Guy on March 24, 2011, 03:27:26 PM
I don't like liver; I don't care if anyone else does.
But liver has so much protein. It is so good for you to eat. You really should like it. Seriously, liver is my least favorite food of all time. Good analogy.
Rap is a knock on the door; slap is a form of assault; I'm quite attached to my liver; each to their own...
Quote from: Psycho Bass Guy on March 24, 2011, 03:27:26 PM
I don't like liver; I don't care if anyone else does.
But if you only understood the cultural origins of cooking liver and studied the original chefs who cooked it on the street corners of Harlem, you would know that it's nothing like the commercial liver you hear on the radio, and you would become a dedicated liver lover.
Not in my house... :o
I like liver. I understand a lot of people don't like it and I'm alright with that.
I don't like rap. I fully understand it and that is exactly why I do not like it.
I can listen to slap in small doses. It has no place in the type of music that I play, so I don't play it. The guy who considers it the next level of bass playing and feels that those who don't do it , don't do it because they are not good enough is in serious need of a good ass kicking. My guess is that comment came from an ass that's been kicked more than once or twice and he is simply doing all he can to line up the next one.
Rick
I can't slap though I tried. I event went to my old bass teacher in 1979 and asked him too teach me and he said: "You can't teach that, you just do it and learn as you go along". I tried the first part of that recommendation. But was spectacularly unsuccessful achieving the desired result. I never got better than abysmally horrible either. I wanted to learn it as another aspect of bass playing, I had no intention of becoming Mr Funk.
These days I can appreciate Marcus Miller or Stanley Clark doing it or Wyzzard (the guy from Mother's Finest), the Level 42 guy leaves me cold. Meshelle Ndwhatshername slaps tastefully too. For me it is percussion more than anything, the ratio of slap lines that are hummable is pretty low in my opinion. It impresses listeners who have little concept of bass playing like hell though.
Rap? Most Rap today doesn't even feature slap bass anymore, the lines would be too busy and get in the way of the rhythm of the rap. I like some of the old stuff, Sugarhill Gang and what were those guys called again that rapped "don't-push-me-cause-I'm-close-to-the-eeeedge"? Was Prince's "You sexy Mothef***er" over that hyper-nervous James Brown'esque bass line (non-slapped) a rap? It had some rap in it - great song. White people are absolutely unable to dance to it too.
Except maybe in demonstration booths at music industry fairs slapping has lost a lot of relevance and prevalence in contemporary music. When did you hear the last top ten hit with a slap bass throughout the song?
Quote from: uwe on March 24, 2011, 06:43:12 PM
I can't slap though I tried. I event went to my old bass teacher in 1979 and asked him too teach me and he said: "You can't teach that, you just do it and learn as you go along". I tried the first part of that recommendation. But was spectacularly unsuccessful achieving the desired result. I never got better than abysmally horrible either. I wanted to learn it as another aspect of bass playing, I had no intention of becoming Mr Funk.
These days I can appreciate Marcus Miller or Stanley Clark doing it or Wyzzard (the guy from Mother's Finest), the Level 42 guy leaves me cold. Meshelle Ndwhatshername slaps tastefully too. For me it is percussion more than anything, the ratio of slap lines that are hummable is pretty low in my opinion. It impresses listeners who have little concept of bass playing like hell though.
Rap? Most Rap today doesn't even feature slap bass anymore, the lines would be too busy and get in the way of the rhythm of the rap. I like some of the old stuff, Sugarhill Gang and what were those guys called again that rapped "don't-push-me-cause-I'm-close-to-the-eeeedge"? Was Prince's "You sexy Mothef***er" over that hyper-nervous James Brown'esque bass line (non-slapped) a rap? It had some rap in it - great song. White people are absolutely unable to dance to it too.
Except maybe in demonstration booths at music industry fairs slapping has lost a lot of relevance and prevalence in contemporary music. When did you hear the last top ten hit with a slap bass throughout the song?
Two things bother me. One is that I agree with the statement that slap bass is more percussion than anything else. And as much as I appreciate percussion, I personally rate great bass playing as something higher than being a great percussionist. Which brings me to the second thing that has already been noted. And that has to do with the fact that slap bass really does tend to impress the hell out of people who have no concept of bass. I find this somewhat frustrating and annoying. In fact, I think I might be able to appreciate slap bass more if it were looked at as what it really is instead of something which, at least in my opinion, is probably an overrated technique. I may be dazzled by someone such as Marcus Miller, but Jack Bruce in top form dazzles me much more. Something like this is really a matter of taste and should be regarded as such.
Quote from: uwe on March 24, 2011, 06:43:12 PM
I like some of the old stuff, Sugarhill Gang and what were those guys called again that rapped "don't-push-me-cause-I'm-close-to-the-eeeedge"?
Grandmaster Flash 8)
Interesting off-topic and unverified rap factoid - this is T-bone Wolk playing, and I've read before that this track is what landed him the H&O gig:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KMrPDiw8PQ&feature=related
I second that emotion! Usually, slappers bores the s--t out of me. But wait; some bassist's got the talent to include slapping into pop tunes. Like Ron Francoise in underrated new wave band the Sinceros (England, around 79-80). He usually just drove, but at times would use slap. Like here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMghEF04Ybo
The drummer is Bob Irwin, who later got quite famous. Don Snow on keyboards went to Squeeze. Singer/guitarist Mark Kjeldsen left music and drove a cab, until he died of Aids. Great band, The Sinceros. One of my favourites.
Quote from: chromium on March 25, 2011, 01:35:20 AM
Grandmaster Flash 8)
Interesting off-topic and unverified rap factoid - this is T-bone Wolk playing, and I've read before that this track is what landed him the H&O gig:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5KMrPDiw8PQ&feature=related
T-Bone Wolk could cross genres at will.
Most basslines on rap sounds r'n'b-ish to me, well especially for old school rap, newer stuff is like a (modern) porn movie soundtrack.
Slap is like salt in cooking, a little bit is ok if it fits, other than that it kills a song fast.
I can't slap, cause I have two left arms.
There is some Rap that I like but most modern stuff ( that we country boys hear anyway) is so laden with profanity that it turns me away. Profanity is most effictive in small doses. If I drop the F-bomb you will know I'm quite pissed. The same goes for slap bass, too much and it seems less musical.
Here is an example of great slap. and why we should all attempt to learn to do it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVlzrvRYCh0
Quote from: Chaser001 on March 24, 2011, 07:52:35 PM
Which brings me to the second thing that has already been noted. And that has to do with the fact that slap bass really does tend to impress the hell out of people who have no concept of bass. I find this somewhat frustrating and annoying. In fact, I think I might be able to appreciate slap bass more if it were looked at as what it really is instead of something which, at least in my opinion, is probably an overrated technique.
I hear ya, but there is no accounting for taste, and this is something that will never go away. I remember going to a Jon Juc Ponty concert years ago and I was absolutely mesmerized by the way this guy played the violin. He was so incredibly fast and agile and he was playing stuff that was so beautiful and innovative, I was completely in awe. There may have been a dozen others in the audience of ten thousand who shared my opinion until he did this goofy ,simple solo with some stupid little repeater effect. He would play four or five notes and just stand back with his hands at his side and let the repeater effect play those same few notes over and over with a bunch of echo added. Ten thousand people went wild, standing and cheering , like this was the greatest thing they had ever seen. This is something that just about any jackass could do , but this is the part that brought down the house. All the really amazing things he played meant nothing but the little repeater box impressed the hell out of everyone ??? I guess that's how it works.
Hell, I got a standing ovation once for an equipment malfunction :o. I started a song with a foot pedal police siren and when I went to turn it off the switch broke and I kept kicking the pedal to try and stop it.Not only did the siren continue but the hurricane and surf sound efects also engaged and the more I kicked the pedal the louder it got. I was so freakin' embarrassed I wanted to run off stage :-[ Everyone just turned up and played through it all. When it was over there were a thousand people standing up with lighters in hand and cheering.........WTF
Rick
Quote from: chromium on March 25, 2011, 01:35:20 AM
Grandmaster Flash 8)
Danke!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4o8TeqKhgY
And this track mesmerizes me to this day. I could never write something like it. Love those Blood, Sweat & Tears horns in it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4hf7sfEwr0&feature=related
Guilty pleasures: I like this (not the original, but good enough):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kX-aezMrYa8&feature=related
And this, cracker of a riff too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frd5YmSjjII
There's always the OFF or MUTE buttons, which I hit as soon as I hear rap. Can't watch Jimmy Fallon b/c of that gawdawful hip-hop house band he has. And no, Uwe, I won't watch any of those videos.
No hip-hop in my music collection. And nothing with any modern electric slap bass, though there's some old rockabilly where the bass was probably slapped. But that's a different animal.
Call me close-minded, I don't care. I know what I like and what I don't.
Well, at least it's not stadium rock!
And in a way this was rap too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajzpd-ONOdo&feature=related
And even this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY8zfzPwUOI&feature=related
All music comes from somewhere. Liking blues, soul and funk but negating the rhythmic speech aspects in it and declaring all hip-hop and rap as worthless isn't really coherent. But then you can eat rib-eye from a cow and still not like the liver.
Maybe it's a bit out from the center of the discussion, but that KLF video Uwe turned in, it's just great!!! Them English guys dreaming up stories of the lost continent Mu, including viking ships, africans, Flying V:s, Hendrix, mythologi, horns, and to top it all: Tammy Wynette in this here piece that's so extraordinary good - that is, in my opinion - that she's both justified, ancient, and willing to give away a good laugh. Not a bad comination!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gzkllCIyww
Quote from: uwe on March 25, 2011, 09:30:06 AM
All music comes from somewhere. Liking blues, soul and funk but negating the rhythmic speech aspects in it and declaring all hip-hop and rap as worthless isn't really coherent. But then you can eat rib-eye from a cow and still not like the liver.
Just because X influenced Y, it doesn't follow that Y is any good or that you ought to like it as well as X.
The only rap song I like is "Rapture" by Blondie. I'm not sure that it's really a rap song and I'm not sure I really like it. In regard to slap bass, I do detect a superior attitude about it in some quarters. For instance, I was recently reading some comments from a slap bassist who, of course, said that people who didn't like it weren't good enough to play it. He also added that slap bassists are better at getting chicks. The only slap bassist I know really well actually is a chick. I have a feeling she would be able to destroy him on bass, though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfhKwP3WcZ8
Prince does some tasty slapping.
That is actually true. Women are attracted to slap bass. Much to my chagrin, even edith is. "It sounds so virtuoso!" Good grief.
My pet theory is that women automatically allude that if you are good with your thumb on those strings then you won't be doing too bad elesewhere. Yes, my brethren, that is the disenchanting truth.
Quote from: the mojo hobo on March 25, 2011, 05:25:39 AM
Here is an example of great slap. and why we should all attempt to learn to do it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVlzrvRYCh0
I wish there was a video of the face of the A&R rep when he first heard this Etheridge track before she was signed...must've shit his pants! Great track.
Another of my FAVE slap/pop bass parts in a pop song is this Kajagoogoo song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKIs_6qc4cQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKIs_6qc4cQ)
Quote from: Dave W on March 25, 2011, 08:54:07 AMCan't watch Jimmy Fallon b/c of that gawdawful hip-hop house band he has.
...and that's the ONLY part of his show that I can stand. I really like the Roots. Jimmy, OTOH, is a clueless, talentless idiot who probably has kneepads to thank for his career. He can't even cut a ten second ID where only the station call letters change. It took twenty minutes via satellite to get ONE good take from him in the can when he was first promoting his show.
Quote from: Psycho Bass Guy on March 25, 2011, 08:44:03 PM
...and that's the ONLY part of his show that I can stand. I really like the Roots. Jimmy, OTOH, is a clueless, talentless idiot who probably has kneepads to thank for his career. He can't even cut a ten second ID where only the station call letters change. It took twenty minutes via satellite to get ONE good take from him in the can when he was first promoting his show.
I don't think he's funny, and he seems much more full of himself than most stars. OTOH there are sometimes good guests. I'd rather watch Craig Ferguson anyway.
Quote from: uwe on March 25, 2011, 05:44:27 PM
That is actually true. Women are attracted to slap bass. Much to my chagrin, even edith is. "It sounds so virtuoso!" Good grief.
My pet theory is that women automatically allude that if you are good with your thumb on those strings then you won't be doing too bad elesewhere. Yes, my brethren, that is the disenchanting truth.
;D ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Dave W on March 25, 2011, 08:52:53 PM
I'd rather watch Craig Ferguson anyway.
...what I'm doing right now. ;)
This thread reminded me of a clip I'd seen of Abe Laboriel with Lee Ritenour (ack! that stuff didn't age well for me). Just sharing it for the sheer spectacle of someone slapping on an 8-string bass :o (forward to 4:48)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI3C2HS1vZM
I do like that guy (Abe), though. He gets down.
Here's some rap bass I like too, while I'm at it. The irony is that its the Beastie Boys... and there are no raps! :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNw-wDaM0bw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo6CidK5ea8
Quote from: Dave W on March 25, 2011, 08:52:53 PM
I'd rather watch Craig Ferguson anyway.
I'd rather watch old Johnny Carson DVDs.
Quote from: chromium on March 26, 2011, 12:25:24 AM
This thread reminded me of a clip I'd seen of Abe Laboriel with Lee Ritenour (ack! that stuff didn't age well for me). Just sharing it for the sheer spectacle of someone slapping on an 8-string bass :o (forward to 4:48)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI3C2HS1vZM
I do like that guy (Abe), though. He gets down.
Ack indeed, that was so clean stuff, no funk left there at all.
I like slap bass when it sounds dirty and funky, like on this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxKBnR_8LIM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxKBnR_8LIM)
Larry Graham w/ a Fender Jazz
Or this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GWikmANtgM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GWikmANtgM)
Larry Johnson w/ a Ric 4001
My fav is still the slippery sound and weird style of the late Doug Rauch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb26reDj9gY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb26reDj9gY)
How about this sucker?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBGyk8eAav4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBGyk8eAav4)
Not rap but very early (1971) double-thumbin' from Douglas Rauch and quite different from what Larry Graham was doing at that time.
What I'm about to write is going to sound really lame, short sighted, selfish and ignorant.
Although I like slap bass in funk, what I really hate about slap bass is that when you go to stores to check out basses, everyone in there is trying out the basses by slapping them.
If I get a new bass the first thing friends do when they try it out is slapping it.
It immediately pisses me off. I roll my eyes and want to snatch the bass out of their hands.
Pretty shallow, I know.
I feel with you. When my Fender playing buddy here grabs one of my Gibsons he always slaps while I gasp for air!!!
Quote from: uwe on March 31, 2011, 05:37:59 AM
I feel with you. When my Fender playing buddy here grabs one of my Gibsons he always slaps while I gasp for air!!!
Ugh, I cannot imagine how much that makes you cringe!
Quote from: Denis on March 31, 2011, 05:31:51 AM
What I'm about to write is going to sound really lame, short sighted, selfish and ignorant.
Although I like slap bass in funk, what I really hate about slap bass is that when you go to stores to check out basses, everyone in there is trying out the basses by slapping them.
If I get a new bass the first thing friends do when they try it out is slapping it.
It immediately pisses me off. I roll my eyes and want to snatch the bass out of their hands.
Pretty shallow, I know.
Yessss! YESSS! hit the nail on the head. I love slapping when it has a purpose like in a Wooten solo or in a Larry Graham groove. These have context and purpose. They are both about using a technique that suits the song and I find them both melodic and musical. Mark King from Level 42 on the other hand and quite a few other guilty parties are so percussive that I just get bored and switch off. As my favourite drummer Jack says "Same, just different". Rap/Hip Hop on the other hand ....to paraphrase Dave, I know what I like and I dont like that.
Quote from: Denis on March 31, 2011, 05:31:51 AM
What I'm about to write is going to sound really lame, short sighted, selfish and ignorant.
Although I like slap bass in funk, what I really hate about slap bass is that when you go to stores to check out basses, everyone in there is trying out the basses by slapping them.
If I get a new bass the first thing friends do when they try it out is slapping it.
It immediately pisses me off. I roll my eyes and want to snatch the bass out of their hands.
Pretty shallow, I know.
This is exactly the way I feel ;D
Rick
I like to slap every now and again (http://soundcloud.com/hieronymous-seven/8b4x4). (Much less than I used to)
There will always be haters - pay them no heed!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmNegOg6dOM&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmNegOg6dOM&feature=related)this guy brings the funk and may have been known to slap occasionaly -he mixes up his techniques and sounds some though-going back a few posts-that version of ashes to ashes had me wishing that gail ann dorsey would rip the bass out of that fellas hands and show him how to do it right.seemed a bit square peg in around hole to me, i liked the understated popping in the original.whatever gets you to the bridge.