The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Fender Basses => Topic started by: uwe on April 29, 2008, 07:43:56 AM
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Hi guys, rarely do I post here in the F(i)ender :o Förüm, but give a Gibsonite some help, will ya?
I have an eighties RI of a 62 P, always liked the bass' sound, but the neck was slightly warped from day one (which is probably why I got it cheaper in a shop in Texas around 89, I didn't notice at the time). The warp got worse over time, repeated fret dressings just prolonged the decay and the trussrod cried "unconditional surrender!" eventually and broke. I wanted my luthier to repair it and convert it to fretless, but he said even with a new truss rod and a new fingerboard the neck is warped to hell***, I should look for a replacement neck. *** I've meanwhile talked him into giving it a try to preserve the integrity of the bass, but he remains doubtful, mumbling something about "the laws of physics cannot be changed". ;D
So now I'm on the lookout for a fretless P bass neck (and if that is unavailable a fretless J Bass neck) and it should be an original Fender USA neck, I don't care whether it is vintage or new (assuming that they all fit my 62 RI) .
Any ideas? I looked at ebay and found this here, a disassembled 71 P neck of uncertain quality
http://cgi.ebay.com/fender-precision-bass-neck-1971-fretless_W0QQitemZ130217798510QQihZ003QQcategoryZ4713QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
and a MIM :-\ J neck:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/FENDER-JAZZ-BASS-FRETLESS-fast-action-ROSEWOOD-J-neck_W0QQitemZ110247749911QQihZ001QQcategoryZ41423QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262
Thanks!
Uwe
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A 70s fretless P neck would be the most commonly found although maple doesn't fit with a '62 RI. I'd avoid that particular one.
The fretless MIM J necks are really very nice, but not if you have to have an MIA neck.
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That ain't maple, that is a disaster! I would avoid any neck that has been disassembled and had the truss rod yanked, if only because the guy is selling as is. Who knows what went on there, but I would not be surprised if it had worse inherent neck-twisting than what you have now.
I agree that maple fretless board on 60s vibe P basses is aesthetically wrong. I would want a 70s TV logo'ed B neck on there. If I were out to for something exotic I would look for the early to mid 80s Fender Japan fretless Jazz necks, which had a cooler vintage look to them, as long as the Jazz Bass decal didn't bug you. They show up on the ebay often enough, and to be completely honest they are a great bass in total. If you found a nice one of those, sell the RI body and make more cash. Certainly a sleeper on the market, as is all 80s Fender Japan bass stuff. Ok, not the Bullets and 32" scale P basses. But in terms of bang for the buck and intense outsider cred, 80s Fender Japan is the Gibson bass of Fender.
I am sure the fretless Fender Mexican stuff is fine, but like fretless US necks of the past few years, cheater lines are for kids.
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A 70s fretless P neck would be the most commonly found although maple doesn't fit with a '62 RI. I'd avoid that particular one.
The fretless MIM J necks are really very nice, but not if you have to have an MIA neck.
I didn't know that the seventies fretless P Bass necks had maple boards? The one in the auction has a rosewood (or ebony?) board, it has just been removed.
I wouldn't dream of a maple board for a 62 RI, especially with this body fin (warpie is at the left, I always wonder is that fiesta red ore some kind of orange the name escapes me?):
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/uwehornung/DCP_0053.jpg)
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That is the Fiesta Red. I have a Jazz RI body in that. Looks like Tomato soup mixed with candy.
The 70s Fender fretless necks came in both rosewood and maple. Maple boards scream 70s, and I think they look best with an Antigua finish.
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My Fiesta Red maple necked MIM P is orange in artificial light and pink in normal daylight. At the Fender site it's... ...red!
Entwistle calls his Fiesta Explorerbird and P 'Salmon Pink' which fits better, IMHO.
Good luck with the neck. Ever thought of a LED-lighted carbon neck? Sorry, I have to drag myself out of this Buzzard-phase.
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To bad about the neck Uwe, quite a few of the 80's MIJ RIs have that problem, is yours MIA or MIJ ? I got lucky a while ago at the local GC. A 70's Fender fretless neck with original tuners mated to a suspect body, sounds great though. ebay is probably your best bet unless your luthier can maybe find something. Allparts makes good stuff for the dough if you can't find a real Fender neck. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/godofthunder59/100_2832.jpg)
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"Too bad about the neck Uwe, quite a few of the 80's MIJ RIs have that problem, is yours MIA or MIJ?"
Silly question, but how would I know? I thought all these eighties RIs were yank as opposed to Jap. Mine has a silly little green booklet from 1983 (but I only bought it in 1989) in true sixties look with it that gives the impression of it being produced in the US of A without stating it explicitly. Not that it matters to me. While I wouldn't want a MIM neck on it (unless I really, really have to), I'd be fine with a MIJ one.
I coerced my luthier in giving the neck another try. He'll take off the board, hone what needs to be honed off the warped neck, install a new truss rod and compensate the loss of maple with a thicker rosewood board (I thought rosewood as a fretless board is more sixties than ebony would be). Wait we must.
You're probably asking why I'm going through all this trouble with it. I bought that bass for a Texas wedding of my best friend (who worked in Dallas at the time but has relocated to Germany in the nineties) after we decided ad hoc to have a reunion gig of our old band at his wedding. So into the next Dallas music store I went and bought this thing because it sounded better than all the other Ps in that shop (with necks that would probably not have warped!). I've grown attached to it over the years, it has a very warm full sound with flats (I can't even remember how it used to sound with rounds, it's too long ago I had those on) and I always wondered that it would make a darn good fretless.
Uwe
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Fender Japan started doing the reissues at the same time. They have JV serial numbers on the neck plate unless somebody messed with them. There are other fairly minor differences and if you go to a Fender MIJ JV/Squier website you can check. A lot of the electronics were US to boot. But the early Japan reissues are pretty dang good. Unless the neck warped.
I like the idea of working the old neck with a new board.
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70's fretless P necks are not rare on eBay. I bought one about a year ago just because my first good bass (Hofners and Kliras are not good basses, right?) was a blank plank Fender P. Got it for $197. It's on my '75 P now and is a joy to play.
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uwe...for a Gibsonite, you've got a nice collection of other stuff.
At any rate, several comments:
(1) Is there a date penciled on the butt end of the neck? The body should also have a date, probably in the neck pocket. Looking at your group shot, with the bass in question some distance from the camera, it appears to me the straight-across cut of the tip end of the rosewood board above the nut indicates it was made after 1986.
(2) Original Fiesta Red finishes from American-made 1980s reissues are rare. From 1982-1984, Fender P-basses in Fiesta with rosewood boards (62 AVS reissues) are very rare.
(3) You may have already done this, but I've been very impressed with the necks coming out of MIM, so you may want to go out and put your hands on a few before making a final decision about using one as a replacement. I have a Classic 50s P and I love the cut and feel of the neck. It's my understanding that MIM necks begin life in the USA and are sent rough-cut to MIM for finishing.
George
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uwe...for a Gibsonite, you've got a nice collection of other stuff.
You'll learn a lot about Uwe's collection if you stay here long enough!
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Hofners and Kliras are not good basses, right?
Bite your keyboard!
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You'll learn a lot about Uwe's collection if you stay here long enough!
George was a member at DP v.2. I think he knows Uwe's Gibson collection. It's just that Uwe isn't real forthcoming about his other basses. ;) For example, Uwe would be mortified if it became known that he actually bought a Gene Simmons Punisher....ooops! ;D
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I have no issue with owning up to ze Punisher at all, that is a souped up Ripper made of maho basically, I could have done without Herr Simmons outsize signature on it, not because I don't like Herr Simmons, but because I don't like outsize signatures on instruments, period. I guess my Dean Owners of America Flying V is more embarrassing. Or my Italia Mondial. I even have a Bongo and a Parker Fly Bass!!! And four Icemans!
If I'm honest, I don't think there is a bass brand or type I would not play, you can get a decent or at least an original sound out of most anything if you work at it.
Uwe
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I'm starting to feel very inadequate. ;D
George
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I could have done without Herr Simmons outsize signature on it, not because I don't like Herr Simmons, but because I don't like outsize signatures on instruments, period.
But his signature is what makes it valuable! Let's face it, without Gene's signature, it's just an EMG P/J in an unusual shape. You bought it because of Gene, not because you love the sound of EMGs.
It's kind of like the polar opposite of a Sting bass, where people love the bass but try to cover up the 12th fret inlay to keep from being embarrassed. :D
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I like Noel gallagher, but a lot of people don't. His Epiphone signature is one of the best Epiphone semis around. very good pick ups and well made. I know the Dutch agent sold lots of Manchester Blue ones (instead of the Union Jack) and the had some nail polish remover ready al the time to rub off the Gallagher signature.
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Nail polish remover ?????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that would take off a lot more than the signature. Naptha works best.
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Well, it was somethin' chemical...;) Dunno what.
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But his signature is what makes it valuable! Let's face it, without Gene's signature, it's just an EMG P/J in an unusual shape. You bought it because of Gene, not because you love the sound of EMGs.
It's kind of like the polar opposite of a Sting bass, where people love the bass but try to cover up the 12th fret inlay to keep from being embarrassed. :D
I bought the Punisher because I liked the Addams Family/Munsters goth coffin look it has and because I rate Herr Simmons as a bass player. It sounds like a souped up, dominating TB btw and is very ergonomic with an unlimited double octave high register access and phat sustain. He certainly knew what he was doing.
The Sting inlay on the 53 P-Bass reissue is cheesy and had me hesitating, but that bass sounds great, I love those early single coils when played with a pick. It just doesn't sound anything like Sting sounds these days (oe ever sounded before), but that is the least of my worries. It is a real snarler and cuts through nicely. I also like the baseball bat neck which feels like your playing "a man's bass".
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Back from fretted Punishers to (now) fretless 1962 P Bass reissues from the late eighties. The bass has been back from the luthier for a while now, original neck could be saved (it was always warped and the truss rod finally gave up the futile fight trying to correct the forces of nature), re-trussroded and at my request equipped with a phat rosewood fretless board, it plays great ("mwaw" and all that) - I knew it always had a great fretless bass "sleeping" in it - and I hope the optical results find mercy even with discerning Fenderistas. While I know that fretless P Basses did not crop up until the seventies, I pray the rosewood (rather than ebony or maple) board has retained this specimen's original vibe?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/uwehornung/100_0931.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/uwehornung/100_0930.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v615/uwehornung/100_0942.jpg)
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Very nice Uwe! I had an '83 1957 reissue bass in Fiesta Red that I bought in 1985 for $300. Wish I still had that one. George is right in saying that the early Fiesta Red basses are very rare. The new "classic" MIM Precision basses have some very nice necks and should fit on your bass but are all one piece Maple necks I believe.
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Very nice, Uwe! Why did you want a thick board? Is it to have enough rosewood for future redress(es)?
Next week I'll take some pics of my new (to me) '73 P fretless, also an unlined rosewood board. Mine is black w/black guard.
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The thick board is there for sound and stability reasons and also because there was a nice slab of old rosewood lying around with my luthier to do it!!! My luthier thinks that the eighties reissues have neck stability issues because their necks are relatively thin to accomodate then prevailing tastes. And getting the warp out of the neck involved some honing of maple too. So far the neck is stable, but I'm not taking chances: When this bass was fretted it had 105 D'Addario Chromes which have huge pull. It now features TI 98 Flats which offer less than 2/3 of the pull of the Chromies.
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Hmm.. '80s Reissues (well to be correct, Vintage Series) had thin necks due to the prevailing tastes at the time? I don't know about that. My Vintage Series '62 P neck is still as stable now as it was the day I bought her in April 1983. It's very wide side-to-side, but very narrow front-to-back, and that's perfect. It was a much different feel from most basses at the time which tended more towards being very big front-to-back and varying quite a bit side-to-side.
But nonetheless, it's a beautiful bass you have there! Fiesta Red, as posted earlier, is a pretty rare color for the early Fullerton Vintage Series basses. I was a dealer then and only saw two, both '57 Ps.
jte
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I had no idea this was a rare color. I bought the bass in Dallas, Texas, sometime in the late eighties. I had been invited to the American wedding of a German friend/ex-band mate (who had gone to law school there and met his American wife) and at the spur of a moment we decided on an inpromptu gig at the wedding since the former drummer and lead guitarist were there as well. We had no gear, so we just went out and bought guitars and a bass, renting drums and backline. The shop only had a couple of basses and this was the only one that "spoke" with me. I remember another, then modern day Fender P in black, but it didn't sound anything like the fiesta red one (which was also cheaper, probably due to the warped neck, which I didn't then notice, or the fact that it had been standing around for ages), even though both my band mates ("that is a weird pussy color, get the black one") and the shop salesman tried to talk me into the black one. Even in later years when I would play it, people would say: "That Fender sounds real nice, but the color is an acquired taste." I used to refer to it as my "Beach Boys bass". It was only comparatively recently that I saw color pictures (as opposed to black and white) of the first Deep Purple line up with Nick Simper on bass and realized that he had played a fiesta red one too in 1968/69. As a Deep Purple nerd that was kind of redeeming as is reading this thread now - belated, but sincere and validating appreciation, thanks!
Re the neck: I'm no expert on Fender necks but this one is more wide than thick too and as regards stability my luthier favors thick over wide necks both with guitars and basses. I don't really care too much either way as regards playability, but prefer the feel of a more rounded neck. But the "warpability" of this particular one is probably more accounted for by how that particular piece of maple grew.
And when I bought it in the late eighties, wide, but "flat" necks were all the rage I thought.
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Nice bass, Uwe, though I would like a Fiesta/trtoise/rosewood with frets.
About the colour: I have this great Fender MIM 50s P in Fiesta with gold anodized guard. It's my work horse and I love the orange/salmon/pink colour! Real :gay:
If we play with other bands, bassists always seem to have too modern Wariwick-shape basses or cheap P copies in black. People always started about mine! It's just a P which you see too much, but it still is different!
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Uwe,
I like it!
Speaking of signature basses, don't you now have a Pino Pallidino signature? ( I thinks his has frets ) ?
I always associate him playing a fretless," Boys of Summer " etc.
Long live tomato soup topped with pepperoni!
:mrgreen:
S.
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I have a question for you Fender buffs: This thread has me wondering whether my bass is from the early or the late eighties. I always assumed the latter, because I bought it in the late eighties, but of course it might have been standing in the shop for some time. The neck plate has the serial no V0 31273. The Fender site tells me, I take it, that I would have to remove the neck to look for a stamp to identify the date any closer than "eighties". Is that right?
And I always thought Gibson's serial no system was confounding!
George wrote "Looking at your group shot, with the bass in question some distance from the camera, it appears to me the straight-across cut of the tip end of the rosewood board above the nut indicates it was made after 1986." Is that a trait to discern younger eighties US Vintage basses from older ones? Do the older ones have a rounded cut? If that is true than the bass was indeed from the later eighties (between 1987-1989) which would be a "close enough" date determination for me (and my hunch tells me that that bass is indeed from that period, it didn't look like it had been standing in the shop for five years when I first bought it).
Uwe
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The V series numbers from the eighties weren't used in a predictable pattern, unlike most US Fender series. That's why you have to look further. BTW, the 1983 booklet was still being used in the late 80s.
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Uwe,
The serial number on Fenders was not inteneded to track production dates. It was simply an inventory and invoicing tool. The serial number plates were purchased in bulk, and distributed to the work benches as needed. Some workers took the plates off the back of the box, some off the front of the box. And V000X1 could be on a '57 Strat reproduction, while V000X2 could be used months later on a '62 Jazz bass. The only way to establish a good production date on a Fender is to use the neck and body dates (if there are any) stamped or written on the neck heel and the neck pocket of th body. Combine that with looking at the features, (i.e. logo, decal placement, body shape details, etc.) and the production codes on the pots.
There's a plethora of information on various websites around, and some really knowledgeable folks hanging out here and on the FDP. George Edmonston who recently joined here knows a LOT about the details of Fender's Fullerton era Vintage Series basses.
BTW, I carefully call them "Vintage Series" instead of generic "reissue". That's because FMIC did use the term "Reissue Series" for a specific series. The "Reissue Series" was made in Japan in the late '80s or early '90s. They were NOT the same as the Japanese Vintage Series however. The "Reissues Series" were essentially the same as the same era's "Standard Series" except for vintage-style hardware, yellow tinged finishes, and other cosmetic details. They had the same basswood bodies, cheap switches, crappy miniature pots, bar-magnet PUPs, etc. as the "Standard Series" instruments. They were an early and not as well done attempt at what the current "Classic Series" is. While discussing US made "reissues" may not be confusing, once one starrt to mention the Japanese "reissues" we run into the problem of confusing a Japanese Vintage Series with a Japanese Reissue Series.
jte
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I ain't taking the neck off!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I hate doing that. I have to do it on my MiM reissue sixties Jazz to access the truss rod nut once in a while and it has me swearing every time how they could make something so user-unfriendly.
As a Gibsonite I am allowed to ask the question: Herr Fullerton is someone from Fender who played a role there one time?
Uwe
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As a Gibsonite I am allowed to ask the question: Herr Fullerton is someone from Fender who played a role there one time?
He's talking about the Fullerton, California factory where Fenders were made until 1985. The current FMIC did not buy the factory. G&L occupies that factory now.
You're thinking of George Fullerton (later the G of G&L) who was one of the key players in the early years at Fender. He may still be listed as a consultant for G&L, but late last year Fender Custom Shop came out with a Master Built George Fullerton 50th Anniversary Strat & amp set, with his signature on every COA.
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While I know that fretless P Basses did not crop up until the seventies, I pray the rosewood (rather than ebony or maple) board has retained this specimen's original vibe?
I had a 68 fretless P bass, Candy Apple Red with a rosewood neck. I stupidly put Rotos on it and ruined it in about a month or two, I kept sanding it down, until the action got very high with the saddles sitting on the bass surface. I knew nothing about getting them redone back then (1977 and 24 years old, I didn't play basses back then I killed them). It didn't come from the factory fretless but I knew the original owner and he brought it back very soon after buying it in 1968 and traded the stock fretted neck for the rosewood fretless neck. So perhaps they were special order or something. I have a 72 maple fretless P bass now with a B neck. It's been epoxied though which I hate, I'm going to get it redone to Fender specs, or at least as close as someone around here can do. The rosewood fretless had nothing on it, it was bare wood. No lines on either of my fretless basses, 72 Ric 4001FL and 72 fender P, same year basses is a coincidence
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The fretless P bass first showed up in Fender's 1969 or 1970 catalog, available with either a rosewood or maple fingerboard, neither with any lines.
jte
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Lines? Who needs lines? I have ears, I can hear that I'm out of tune, I don't need no lines to show me how much out of tune I am :P
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The fretless P bass first showed up in Fender's 1969 or 1970 catalog, available with either a rosewood or maple fingerboard, neither with any lines.
jte
Mine must have been a prototype ;D The original owner bought it in 68 with a fretted neck and traded the neck in within a week for a fretless neck or at least that's what he told me. Mine was a rosewood. They didn't put lines on fenders for many years. I bought a fretless J bass around 2000 and sold it because of the lines, I couldn't believe they'd do that and still can't.