The Last Bass Outpost

Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: Pilgrim on October 18, 2010, 03:48:16 PM

Title: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Pilgrim on October 18, 2010, 03:48:16 PM
I'll try and get another photo that's better - my wife took these with no flash so most are much fuzzier than this.  At any rate, here I am playing the '64 EB-0 at a benefit gig last Saturday, 10-16-10.  And yes, the light was also fluorescent, so the colors are a bit off...

(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/gibsonbass10-16-10.jpg)
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Highlander on October 18, 2010, 04:07:35 PM
Nice... ;)

No, make that very nice... 8)

I hate to say it Al... but the shirt... that... colour... :o A trick of the light, yes... it's just a great shade of blue being scrambled by a neon cast... tell me it's so, Al... tell me it's so... ;)
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Pilgrim on October 18, 2010, 06:56:12 PM
Quote from: Kenny's 51st State on October 18, 2010, 04:07:35 PM
Nice... ;)

No, make that very nice... 8)

I hate to say it Al... but the shirt... that... colour... :o A trick of the light, yes... it's just a great shade of blue being scrambled by a neon cast... tell me it's so, Al... tell me it's so... ;)

Have you been hanging out with the squirrels again??

That's the combo that jumped out of the closet at me.  Ever have one of those days where you stand in front of the closet waiting for that to happen??  Kinda like standing in front the fridge holding the door open wanting for dinner inspiration to strike......
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Dave W on October 18, 2010, 07:04:19 PM
Was anyone in the first five rows still standing after you unleashed the mudbucker on them?
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Pilgrim on October 18, 2010, 07:33:48 PM
Quote from: Dave W on October 18, 2010, 07:04:19 PM
Was anyone in the first five rows still standing after you unleashed the mudbucker on them?

Kind of you to ask!

Actually, I used it for a down-tempo number which required a lot of sustain and a very full sound to support the low end.  The wooly sound of that 'bucker was perfect.  We originally had Jack the Ripper in the set right after that, and that bass really rocks on it - but we ended up changing the set and I went back to the Bronco.
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: lowend1 on October 18, 2010, 08:45:06 PM
How does the Model One sound in that location?
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Pilgrim on October 18, 2010, 08:55:17 PM
Quote from: lowend1 on October 18, 2010, 08:45:06 PM
How does the Model One sound in that location?

It's a bit hard to compare against an early 60's mudbucker, which is an extreme sound.

It has about 80% as much output, and a somewhat brighter, less wooly sound.  Compared to a standard humbucking pickup it would still be a darker, slightly more wooly sound. If I turn the mudbucker up full and the Dimarzio up about 80% they don't interfere with each other and it brightens the mudbucker's sound JUST a bit...not much.

Others here might opine whether the difference in output is partly due to the difference in placement between the two pickups.
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Dave W on October 18, 2010, 10:34:36 PM
Quote from: Pilgrim on October 18, 2010, 08:55:17 PM

Others here might opine whether the difference in output is partly due to the difference in placement between the two pickups.

I doubt that makes much difference, for two reasons: first, the Model One isn't that near the bridge, the string excursion isn't that limited. Second, I remember when DiMarzio used to publish catalogs with pickup output shown in millivolts. The Model One had medium output for a bass humbucker. It's certainly got plenty of power, it's just not in the same boat as a mudbucker.
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Psycho Bass Guy on October 18, 2010, 10:42:10 PM
Yep. The reason your output lowered before was that you had the mudbucker reversed in polarity and it was phase cancelling against the the Model One.  The spacing comments assumed that both pickups were wired properly.
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Freuds_Cat on October 19, 2010, 12:59:42 AM
What amp did you play through Al?
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: lowend1 on October 19, 2010, 07:37:41 AM
Quote from: Freuds_Cat on October 19, 2010, 12:59:42 AM
What amp did you play through Al?

It's a mudbucker - there's no "amp" in the traditional sense. You just plug directly into the speaker cabinet. ;D
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: uwe on October 19, 2010, 08:20:34 AM
 "You just plug directly into the speaker cabinet."

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Truer words have never been spoken.
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: godofthunder on October 19, 2010, 08:22:54 AM
Cool pic, nice bass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Pilgrim on October 19, 2010, 10:09:24 AM
Quote from: Freuds_Cat on October 19, 2010, 12:59:42 AM
What amp did you play through Al?

Genz-Benz Shuttle 6.0 and a pair of 12T speakers.  Even in a riding barn 50 feet x 200 feet, I needed only 1/3 of the master volume to balance with the band.  The Shuttle 6.0 outputs 375W into one 12" 8-ohm speaker, 600W into a pair of them.  I still can't imagine how G-B does that from an amp that's 3.75 pounds.  I just assume it's big ju-ju and don't worry about it.  ;)

(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/PC250031.jpg)
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Highlander on October 19, 2010, 03:18:13 PM
Quote from: Pilgrim on October 18, 2010, 06:56:12 PM
Have you been hanging out with the squirrels again??

Every day, p(Al), every day... ;D

It wasn't the style of the shirt., or even any of what you were wearing from that point of view... it's just that it does look rather P*RPL*... :o

Oxford English Dictionary definition of the term "Mudbucker" - "Earth moving device..." ;D
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Pilgrim on October 19, 2010, 08:02:46 PM
Quote from: Kenny's 51st State on October 19, 2010, 03:18:13 PM
It wasn't the style of the shirt., or even any of what you were wearing from that point of view... it's just that it does look rather P*RPL*... :o


AAARRRRRRRGGGGHHH!   No, it's the lighting.  The shirt and accents are actually light blue, and the main part of the shirt is black.  The lighting, I tells ya!! It's the lighting!!
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Dave W on October 19, 2010, 08:20:22 PM
Quote from: Pilgrim on October 19, 2010, 08:02:46 PM
AAARRRRRRRGGGGHHH!   No, it's the lighting.  The shirt and accents are actually light blue, and the main part of the shirt is black.  The lighting, I tells ya!! It's the lighting!!

:mrgreen:

Seriously, it doesn't look purple at all to me.
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Pilgrim on October 19, 2010, 09:06:11 PM
Whew.....!!!!!  :toast:
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: lowend1 on October 19, 2010, 09:52:01 PM
Quote from: Kenny's 51st State on October 19, 2010, 03:18:13 PM
Oxford English Dictionary definition of the term "Mudbucker" - "Earth moving device..." ;D

...and purveyor of the brown note.
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Freuds_Cat on October 20, 2010, 12:53:15 AM
Quote from: lowend1 on October 19, 2010, 07:37:41 AM
It's a mudbucker - there's no "amp" in the traditional sense. You just plug directly into the speaker cabinet. ;D

Mudbucker = Chuck Norris?     :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Pilgrim on October 20, 2010, 09:24:42 AM
Chuck Norris just plugs the cable into his bellybutton and opens his mouth!
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Highlander on October 20, 2010, 01:05:29 PM
[still looks (a colour - word deleted to avoid offence to any individual/s present) if you are asking me... :vader:]

Anyone care to offer up the ultimate exponent of the mudbucker, or even a tune or two...?

Uncle Felix has got to be up there - one of my faves of theirs...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vLSw4Rr6gM
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Dave W on October 20, 2010, 01:37:43 PM
Ken, adjust your monitor's color settings.  :P

Not the ultimate mudbucker song, but fun to watch and I haven't posted it for a long time so here goes. Bassist is Carson Van Osten

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrwCjBZKciw
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Pilgrim on October 20, 2010, 02:51:33 PM
I checked the other photos and under the light at that gig, the shirts all look Navy blue (not black) with light blue highlights.

Rest assured that I don't own any garment in a color which is spelled with the letters "...urple".
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Highlander on October 20, 2010, 04:53:00 PM
Mr Rundgren's band - just can't mistake that voice and guitar... I have them on vinyl, and a variety of other versions of this song - never seen this before though... 8) Wasn't Rick Neilsen in the Nazz for a while...?

Al... phew... that's set the world to rights then...
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: nofi on October 20, 2010, 09:29:50 PM
that video is very Monkeyish. great song. my fav by them is 'under the ice'.
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: the mojo hobo on October 21, 2010, 05:50:37 AM
I like the shirt. It's very much something I would wear. Blue and black.
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: tore00 on November 01, 2010, 02:18:56 PM
Be careful, look at your risk: mudbuckers unleashed (and my favourite shirt from New Delhi!):




(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy5/tore00/mudbucker/Image2.jpg)
(http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/yy5/tore00/mudbucker/SANY0045-Copy.jpg)
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Chaser001 on November 03, 2010, 03:56:23 PM
Quote from: godofthunder on October 19, 2010, 08:22:54 AM
Cool pic, nice bass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

+1
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: fur85 on November 03, 2010, 09:11:20 PM
I love that Nazz video. Hadn't seen it before. Thanks Dave!
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Big_Stu on November 05, 2010, 10:26:37 AM
Quote from: Kenny's 51st State on October 20, 2010, 01:05:29 PM
Anyone care to offer up the ultimate exponent of the mudbucker, or even a tune or two...?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfuANF7KrqY
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: nofi on November 05, 2010, 10:47:42 AM
i keep confusing them with Slave, the r&b band.
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Highlander on November 05, 2010, 01:49:46 PM
That hits the spot, Stu... ;D
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Pilgrim on November 05, 2010, 02:44:48 PM
Sounds like tasty mud to me!
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Pilgrim on November 07, 2010, 05:42:53 PM
Better photos of the resurrected 1964 EB-0:

(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/Gibson%20EB-0%201964/PB070017.jpg)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/Gibson%20EB-0%201964/PB070018.jpg)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/Gibson%20EB-0%201964/PB070020.jpg)
(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/Gibson%20EB-0%201964/PB070019.jpg)

And the repaired headstock, rear view:

(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/Gibson%20EB-0%201964/PB070021.jpg)
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Aussie Mark on November 07, 2010, 06:58:12 PM
Great job!
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Freuds_Cat on November 07, 2010, 08:52:31 PM
very nice.
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Dave W on November 07, 2010, 10:46:58 PM
That looks great.
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: clankenstein on November 08, 2010, 12:00:13 AM
as we say in n.z. - sweet as!
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Big_Stu on November 08, 2010, 03:15:55 PM
Is it me - or do you just now get grain as gorgeous as that any more? Or has the skill of the finisher lessened over the years??? I remember reading that a Gibson cherry finish was something like 12 coats of cherry & 15 of clear?????
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Pilgrim on November 08, 2010, 06:44:58 PM
Quote from: Big_Stu on November 08, 2010, 03:15:55 PM
Is it me - or do you just now get grain as gorgeous as that any more? Or has the skill of the finisher lessened over the years??? I remember reading that a Gibson cherry finish was something like 12 coats of cherry & 15 of clear?????

But that would go against the sage wisdom of all doze guyz who swear that the less finish on a bass, the better.  All that finish dampens the "tone", don'cha know.

Harrumph, harrumph.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN99jshaQbY
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: uwe on November 09, 2010, 05:10:43 AM
War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Finish does not influence sound.
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Pilgrim on November 09, 2010, 09:04:16 AM
Quote from: uwe on November 09, 2010, 05:10:43 AM
Finish does not influence sound.

I'm with you!  I don't agree with all the mooks who intone about "thin nitro finishes" being the best for "tone", and opining that layers of paint somehow compromise the "tone".

"The opiner doth obesss too much, methinks." (Or that's how the Queen in Hamlet would put it if she were a bass player.)
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: nofi on November 09, 2010, 10:09:34 AM
finish absolutely affects tone on an acoustic instrument. on a solid electric probably not so much at all.
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Pilgrim on November 09, 2010, 11:53:24 AM
Quote from: nofi on November 09, 2010, 10:09:34 AM
finish absolutely affects tone on an acoustic instrument. on a solid electric probably not so much at all.

Fair enough.
Title: Forum of Lost Souls ...
Post by: uwe on November 09, 2010, 04:23:04 PM
What is the law (snap-crack ...)?!!! What is the law?!!!!

Finish does not influence sound!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gL3P377BQA
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Highlander on November 09, 2010, 05:04:46 PM
Better burn that fungus then... (heading for the shelter...)
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Psycho Bass Guy on November 09, 2010, 08:11:49 PM
I can't tell if you guys are being sarcastic or not, but I have to weigh on the side of finish having an audible effect with electric basses, though nowhere near as profound as some believe. They're still stringed instruments and the properties of the body are going to affect the way the strings vibrate, changing the sound. Body resonance also goes a long way into changing the way an instrument feels and responds, which changes the way a player plays on it. I love the beauty and durability of polyester finishes, but I love the sound and feel of laquer more. Still, most of my instruments have polyester finish.

..although every time something of this nature comes up, I'm reminded of an old exchange on TB where an "expert" kept insisting that it was impossible for a set or bolt-neck instrument to output a pure fundamental tone and only neck-through designs could do so. When I pointed out that the pickups measure the movement of the strings regardless of what they span across and it was their tuning, not physical vibrational coupling of the body to a magnetic pickup mounted in a wooden body, he got really huffy.
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Dave W on November 09, 2010, 09:23:18 PM
Uwe wasn't being sarcastic, he was being an instigator (shocking, I know  ;D ). He misses the heated discussions from the early Pit days.

Acoustic instruments produce sound though a vibrating top. The thickness of the finish film definitely affects the vibration. Maybe the type of film does too. And it has been shown that oil finishes (real oil finishes, not varnishes marketed as oil finishes) damp vibrations.

Solid body instruments produce sound through the electronics. Every little thing affects sound in some way, but the question is, is there an audible difference from different finish types or thicknesses? When I see the results of double-blind ABX tests showing that people can tell a difference, then I'll believe it. Until then, I won't.
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: TBird1958 on November 09, 2010, 09:48:00 PM
Quote from: uwe on November 09, 2010, 05:10:43 AM
War is peace.

Freedom is slavery.

Finish does not influence sound.


Mmmmmm...............Doubleplusgood!  ;D







Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: uwe on November 10, 2010, 07:58:09 AM
It's a running gag in this forum that you are not allowed to believe that finish influences solidbody sound. I don't know whether I can hear an amped difference between poly and nitro if all other things are identical, but I believe I can hear a difference between a finished and an unfinished/oiled body. Maybe something to do with the responsiveness of the wood reacting to the vibration of the string and that creeping into the sound. If you knock with your finger against nitro and a thick poly on a piece of wood, you certainly hear a difference or I believe I do, the latter sounds "deader"/more dense.

But believing is not knowing much less being able to prove it! If Dave is a "finish infuences sound"-atheist, then I'm more on the agnostic side, but I'm sure we have some reborn Christians on the issue in our midst as well!  :mrgreen:

Uwe   
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Dave W on November 10, 2010, 08:51:34 AM
Not saying that there's absolutely no effect, I'm just highly skeptical that anyone can hear the difference, that's all.
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Highlander on November 10, 2010, 02:38:06 PM
The black V demands to be played loud... the goats have moved out of the road... if I do a Hendrix flower-fin will she play the blues...?

The Thunderbird has mellowed since being detoxed... def-FIN-itive proof of a change in sound...?

The new fin on the RD is going to be a supachiller, if it all goes well... gonna produce some cool sounds...

Nurse...? I'll have my meds now please... ;D
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: exiledarchangel on November 11, 2010, 02:42:40 AM
Sometimes, in the midst of the night, I swear I can hear the tonewoods breathing, free from the slavery of their dreaded poly finishes...
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: lowend1 on November 11, 2010, 05:06:59 AM
Typically speaking, black finished instruments tend to sound darker than those with natural finishes, which tend to sound more organic and woody. The old Dan Armstrong guitars and basses had a very transparent sound. Sunburst instruments sound very bright at first, but as the note decays, the tone becomes much darker. Hope this helps...
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Pilgrim on November 11, 2010, 09:29:09 AM
I'm really with Dave - I wouldn't say that finish has absolutely Zero effect on sound output, I just think there are so many other factors which have much more impact on sound that it's essentially moot. 

I suspect that acoustic instruments would be slightly different in this respect than solid bodies, but absent an A/B test of two identical acoustic instruments of the same model, built the same day, with strings of the same type and age, I wouldn't bet on being able to hear it.

Am I sure?  To those who would assert differently, I respond as H.L. Mencken did (also attributed to Mark Twain, and oft-used by Edward R. Murrow) when receiving a critical letter:

"Dear Sir or Madam, You may be right. 
Sincerely...."
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: Highlander on November 11, 2010, 01:02:38 PM
Quote from: lowend1 on November 11, 2010, 05:06:59 AM
The old Dan Armstrong guitars and basses had a very transparent sound.

Suddenly, it all becomes clear...
Title: Re: Lousy photo time: the Gibson lives!
Post by: pamlicojack on November 16, 2010, 05:30:56 PM
Quote from: Kenny's 51st State on November 11, 2010, 01:02:38 PM
Suddenly, it all becomes clear...

(http://www.unitednothing.net/site_images/Pictures/rimshot1e.gif)