http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-GIBSON-Les-Paul-bass-1969-possible-prototype_W0QQitemZ260229675160QQihZ016QQcategoryZ118984QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
So, hackjob or no? I like the pickguard...
This place will be the death of me. :o
Well, it could be. Or maybe not. Gibson peghead overlay seems legit. Beyond that, who knows?
I'm no expter, so I dunno what it is. But I like the bodyshape and pickguard shape.
Oh my, I'm gonna have to step up to this one. Legit or not, I like it.
My guess is it is not original Gibson, neat bass none the less. Bill I bet you could build a nicer one and do it for less.
Is it just me or does this look like a neck break that took out a chunk of the body along with it?
(http://i13.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/e9/0f/cd15_12.JPG)
Nothing about the looks of this makes me think it's a real Gibson. OTOH if it's a cheap knockoff, why would someone scratch off the s/n? In any case, that serial number "defect" says it was stolen at some point.
looks like an old project bass, with a stolen neck?
That just might be it.
Interesting nonetheless
It kinda resembles a Sonex in some ways:
(http://www.mikigakki.com/img_system/eb-846_1)
(http://i7.ebayimg.com/08/i/000/e9/10/7ce4_2.JPG)
Bet that one has some stories to tell.
Quote from: Barklessdog on April 13, 2008, 12:37:42 PM
looks like an old project bass, with a stolen neck?
No I don't think so. The neck heel follows the assymetrical shape of the body. It looks original to me.
(http://i3.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/e9/0f/d75c_3.JPG)
A real curio, more likely employee-built than a prototype, that much routing would be very unusual for late sixties Gibson.
Is anyone from you bidding on this? I might go after it if no one else does.
Uwe
I'd be tempted to join in too. But only if it doesn't go bezerk.
Now that I think of it, of course it belongs in ze kollekshun
Given your weakness for hobbits, I'm fine with letting you go first, just let me know if you do and when you've been outbid.
Uwe
I put it on watch, but am going to have to pass on it. I'm moving today, and found that my new lease has an $800 pet deposit. Ouch.
Quote from: Basvarken on April 14, 2008, 02:03:16 AM
No I don't think so. The neck heel follows the assymetrical shape of the body. It looks original to me.
On second thought, you're right. May or may not be a real Gibson but that must be an original neck/body join.
I wonder if the serial number was removed at the instigation of Gibson when the assumed employee used the neck for his project, the resulting cavity refilled and then - at a later stage - the filler removed in a vain attempt to find the original serial number?
Looks almost like a cross between this old Aria bass I sold to Dude many years ago:
(http://i25.tinypic.com/2v17m8h.jpg)
And an Electra Leslie West model X-120.
(http://i32.tinypic.com/2qjbn9w.jpg)
I realize it's probably a phony, but if it stays low, I still would like to have it to "play with!" You know I couldn't just leave it alone! ::)
Rob is bidding on this (and currently in the lead I hazard to guess) and we've agreed that I won't bid unless his limit is exceeded. Should you wish to go after it too, Bill, then drop me an Email with your threshold bid and same "most favored nations treatment" will be extended to you.
I'm intrigued by this sucker. At one time, it must have been played a lot because that Badass was originally black, but most of it is worn off.
Rob, I've now bidded on this because I won't have internet access tomorrow when the auction expires. I don't know if you were the guy in the lead with 350 bucks, but if the auction ends and I win the bass with a price that is not above what you quoted to me in your email (i.e. you would not have been outbid if it wasn't for my bid now) then the bass is yours and I will have it shipped to you.
Uwe
I'm chasing another body right now and decided not to pursue this one any longer. Good luck!!!
I'm intrigued but I will not get in the way.
I'm curious who wins it!!
Currently over $500. ??? Lot of money for a pig in poke.
I was hoping it would stay under $400, but..............oh well, I've got plenty to keep me occupied. I just might build a copy of it someday though!
Sold to Uwe for $750.
What is that, about ten euros? :D
Let's hope it's genuine.
Sold to Rob more like! Rob was prepared to go up to 500 Euros to get it, that is more than 750 bucks at current exchange rates, so off to Holland this goes! Rob, email me your shipping address presto!
Uwe
Congratulations, Rob. I hope it's the real deal.
I still think it's neat, even if it's heritage is a bit questionable. I saved all of the pictures for a possible future copy! I have no shame!
Wow!!! I can't believe it.
I just can't get used to that worthless dollar ;D
Thank you thank you thank you Uwe!
Congratulations Rob! Interesting piece and good price.
We definately need to see eachpther soon:) Gefeliciteerd!!
Quote from: Basvarken on April 20, 2008, 02:20:35 AM
Wow!!! I can't believe it.
I just can't get used to that worthless dollar ;D
Me neither!
Congrats Rob!
Cool to see this one goes to Hobbitland.
That settles the bicycle issue forever, meine Herren!
Maybe I could produce a line of these in my retirement! Congrats Rob!
Today I picked up the Les Paul Bass "prototype / employee model" at the local post office.
The first thing you notice when you hold it, is the weight. It is substantially lighter than the Les Paul Bass (aka Recording)
The prototype weighs 3.9 kilograms.
The Les Paul Bass weighs 5.1 kilograms.
The Triumph weighs, 4.8 kilograms.
Of course it is no surprise that it should weigh less. There's a huge swimming pool routing underneath that black controlplate. Plus the body is less thick. It measures 38 mm at the edges. (The Les Paul bass is 50mm thick at the edges. (In the middle even thicker because of the curved top)
The neck is exactly the same as the Les Paul Bass.
Except for the neck joint at the body.
The prototype meets the body at the E string at the 19th fret. The Les Paul bass at the 15th. And the the G string even at the 21st fret (the Les Paul at the 15th)
How is that for upper fret access?!
The neck joint does seem to have been broken. Although the seller stated that the scratches were only superficial, there's remnants of glue at one of the cracks.
(http://www.superfloor.net/neckjointcrack.jpg)
Due to the lighter body it is slightly neck heavy.
(Both the Les Paul Bass and Triumph balance perfectly)
The pots are a bit scratchy. Especially the volume pot even drops out if you pull the shaft.
The pickups are not sealed in epoxy! Finally a chance to see what's under the hood.
They are definitely handcrafted. The green(!) wire is not wound very neatly. And there are folded pieces of cardboard on the sides keeping the pickup in place inside the big plastic pickup cover.
(http://www.superfloor.net/prototype-pickup.jpg)
(http://www.superfloor.net/prototype-pickup2.jpg)
There's a huge grey "thing" in the wiring harness that I can't quite explain. When I saw it in the Ebay pictures I thought it might be an impedance transformer, but the output of this bass is even a bit lower than the Les Paul Bass which doesn't have a transformer at all. Maybe Jake can tell from the picture? Jake?
(http://i17.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/e9/1a/d91e_3.JPG)
I like the large machine heads. They work more precise (IMHO) Plus they are better for long scale strings on a short scale bass because the radius of the string post is wider on these large tuners.
They are not the original ones. I can clearly see the footprint of the former ones because the new ones have no upper part of the back plate. Are these special light weight tuners perhaps?
(http://i10.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/e9/10/90bc_3.JPG)
The bass sounds similar to the Les Paul Bass. Although it doesn't sound as fat as the Les Paul Bass or Triumph. It has less output and does not sound as tight. Maybe that is because the body just has less wood? I hear difference in fatness between the Les Paul and Triumph too so that might very well be it.
I'll take it to the gig next saturday. Let's see if it's ready to rock.
Thanx again Uwe for your unselfishness!!
Nice, Rob!
Sounds great. As long as the action is good, I regard a neck reset as a venial sin, especially as this is a one-off bass that has seen its share of later alterations.
You know where to put it if you get bored with it, ja?!!!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/gcarlston/dudepit/HYENAS.jpg)
:mrgreen:
I will now personally proceed to stick hot needles in your 86 TB II, Herr Carlston, chrome parts will be pierced first! Ze pain vill travel acröss ze Ätläntic ... :mrgreen: ;)
Hyeanas are good for the eco system - where would all the poor little Q-80ies go otherwise?
Here's a short soundclip of the mysterious Hobbit.
neck pickup
bridge pikcup
both pickup
tone selector on 3
in phase
vol 10
treble 10
bass 10
Straight in to Garageband through my Minidisk recorder as interface (eq flat)
http://www.superfloor.net/prototypeLPB.mp3 (http://www.superfloor.net/prototypeLPB.mp3)
That is nice Rob. Those coils do really use thick wire. It sounds really good. Like you said, thinner but still nice with some Mahogany growl.
That sounds really nice! Great score...
Great sound!
That big grey thing maybe is an inductor, those are used to give or cut mids, or something like that.
Great sound!!!
Quote from: exiledarchangel on May 15, 2008, 01:23:20 AM
That big grey thing maybe is an inductor, those are used to give or cut mids, or something like that.
No it's an impedance transformer. I checked it with the wiring schematics of the Triumph. There's that same symbol.
A Triumph/Recording sound with even more of a singlecoil characteristic than they already have. Nice!
Very nice catch. I have seen the green wire before .Cant remember where but I believe a small pickup maker had it. The cardboard works! Who knew!
That's sounds really nice Rob, but I bet any bass you played would sound that good.
;)
Look theres another one!
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=716120&highlight=gibson
Very interesting.
Rob, do you still have yours? And did you ever reach any conclusions about what it is?
Very Cool!!
Yes I do still have mine.
I never found any information on this bass other than what the seller in the Ebay auction provided.
The one that popped up now has the Gibson logo embossed on the neck pickup.
Mine doesn't have any logos on the pickups. They do have those black plastic ovals on the backside just like the one on TalkBass.
But underneath that black plate you can look straight at the thick green enamel wire. The pickups are held in place within the casing with sheets of cardboard. Very "prototype" if you ask me.
(http://www.superfloor.net/prototype-pickup.jpg)
Mine has a BadAss brigde. But you can still see the holes where the studs of the two point bridge used to be.
Mine also has black Gotoh Res-o-lites on the headstock. The footprints of the original machineheads are still visible.
I don't have a lot of footage of the bass in action.
But the ones from this gig are pretty cool:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcZ3iASvYDs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZwnVnSqXTs
Someone, somewhere ought to know more about these. I was doubtful at first but yours seems to be a real Gibson prototype. The large gauge pickup wire makes me think it really could be a forerunner of the LP Bass.
Gibson made a good decision when they changed the body shape and thickness to the Les Paul shape:
The prototype has a slab body which is rather thin. With the large gear machine heads it has a neck dive. Fortunately for me the previous owner put the Res-o-lites on, which just about cures that flaw.
The Les Paul Basses (or Professional Bass) balance perfectly thanx to the larger and thicker body.
The prototype however, has superior upper fret acces. The body meets the neck at the 21st fret!
All the rest of the prototype is identical to the later Les Paul Bass.
And.....it's gone.
Quote from: rockinrayduke on December 02, 2010, 08:16:14 PM
And.....it's gone.
The one at the start of this thread was gone 2 1/2 years ago. Rob owns it.
Jules just revived the thread because of the one at Talkbass.
Quote from: Basvarken on May 15, 2008, 03:35:36 AM
No it's an impedance transformer. I checked it with the wiring schematics of the Triumph. There's that same symbol.
Can you repost the picture that shows the item in question or maybe a Triumph schematic? The reason I ask is that a transformer IS an inductor.
That question was answered and solved two and a half years ago... :o :mrgreen:
Didn't you want to bestow it on my kolleckshün, Holländer? I have a few vintage bikes lying around in the cellar I could exchange ...
Quote from: Basvarken on December 03, 2010, 12:23:29 AM
That question was answered and solved two and a half years ago... :o :mrgreen:
I figured as much, but I'm curious. The old pics don't load.
The pics were in the Ebay auction, so they're gone. I don't have them.
But here's a wiring diagram of a Triumph which is pretty similar to the prototype. Except that the prototype doesn't have the switch to the impedance transformer.
(http://www.flyguitars.com/graphics/LesPaulTriumph.jpg)
The reason I brought this up after so long, is that it proves that this was not a one-off home-made thing.
What I would like to know (but can't tell immediately) is whether the two are identical, or had different electronics. I can't find my original pics of the 1st one, but I know I saved them . Rob, dioes it look like they are the same wrt wiring?
My previous post made me think I should have save those pics.
And guess what? I saved them on a back up hard drive!
So I imported them again in my iPhoto and put them online.
Here's a pic of the wiring. Looks exactly the same. Except all the wires are coloured and the other one on TalkBass has grey wires.
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100245/ba0b_3/web.jpg?ver=12918393740001)
And here's a pic of the impedance transformer still in there. It didn't look original to me. Big blobs of silicon and rather crudely soldered.
I removed it.
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100245/d91e_3/web.jpg?ver=12918393870001)
you can check the rest of the pics here (http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob#100245).
i think i need a Hobbit!!!
could i get a tracing of this shape from you and maybe a body thickness measurement?
Too bad I hadn't checked this thread out when it was first active. The transformer looks to be one of the common input types found in old audio consoles before transistors made it easier and cheaper to do electronically. Any chance of posting the markings? That should tell the value and the manufacturer.
@Psycho Bass Guy:
Here's what is printed on the transformer:
HLD 8050000620
TF4RX10YY
NYTC 51640
MAX.ALT.
70,000FT.
NYT
7018
@ Sniper Dog
body thickness: 38 mm
widest point lower bout of the body: 344 mm
(http://www.superfloor.net/prototype.jpg)
That thing just looks too cool, bit Ovation'esque.
Quote from: Basvarken on December 09, 2010, 05:35:31 AM
Here's what is printed on the transformer:
HLD 8050000620
TF4RX10YY
NYTC 51640
MAX.ALT.
70,000FT.
NYT
7018
None of those numbers match to common EIA codes for coils:
http://www.triodeel.com/eiacode.htm
...and the altitude limit leads me to believe it was aircraft radio surplus.
Quote from: Psycho Bass Guy on December 09, 2010, 02:04:13 PM
...and the altitude limit leads me to believe it was aircraft radio surplus.
We finally have the proof we've been looking for...
Aliens abducted Gibson's CEO, and
look what happened...
THEY LIVE... :o :o :o
Quote from: uwe on December 09, 2010, 06:51:11 AM
That thing just looks too cool, bit Ovation'esque.
Oooh I like those too. I was really GASsing for a Magnum about a year and half ago. But you and Joe talked me out of it ;)
Took some pics of the Prototype in the winter wonderland,
because I realised I still only had that one pic on the blanket. And the ones from the auction (that I forgot about that I had them...)
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100261/PC042204/web.jpg?ver=12920178520001)
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100261/PC042199/web.jpg?ver=12920178650001)
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100261/PC042206/web.jpg?ver=12920178710001)
(http://gallery.me.com/vdbroekrob/100261/PC042207/web.jpg?ver=12920178380001)
I hope she gets some outings and just doesn't live in a case, Rob... just had a thought - is this lady older than you...?
Oh yes. None of my basses live in a case, they are all standing or hanging ready to be played. And they do get played.
I think this lady may be from the same year as I am (1968)
There's a '59 EBO up for sale at the moment... my personal vintage... might have to wait a long time to get one matching my vintage... enjoy... ;)