The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Outpost Cafe => Topic started by: Garrett on September 25, 2010, 06:03:26 AM
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John Bonham passed away 30 years ago today.
John Henry "Bonzo" Bonham
(http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p60/gallofino/3%20ravens/happy.jpg)
May 31, 1948 / Sept. 25, 1980
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52PXFJsPMvc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52PXFJsPMvc)
In my opinion Bonham defined what it is to be a Rock Drummer....He set the bar high!
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He & Keith Moon defined the rock drummer & their self destructiveness.
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Slaughter me, but the thing I like least about Zep (and have always liked least from the moment I heard them) is Bonham's heavy-handed, dragging behind the beat drumming. He could never play a shuffle properly (i.e.light-handedly) just as the ability to play eighths with a jazzy swing escaped him. I always liked that with a drummer, the ability to swing. Ian Paice did, Keith Moon did, even Bill Ward did with the otherwise utterly non-swinging Black Sabbath, Frank Beard did with ZZ Top before he became possessed with drum machines, but Bonham did not, on a fast track like Rock'n'Roll he sounds like he barely can keep up, during Kashmir he plays straight 4s during Page's non-straight 4s riff which sounds interesting, but more like a work of accident, than one of having really understood the meter and playing with it, over it and under it (no Neil Peart). I always thought there was too little Buddy Rich in Bonham. As a bass player, drummers who play like Bonham drive me nuts, I find their drumming wholly unsympathetic to my bass playing.
A drummer once said to me: "The reason why us drummers like Bonham is that his style is easily emulated, he's simple, but effective, no technical intricacies that have you scratching your head. Now if you take Ian Paice in comparison, he's hard to copy, that old school swing in his cymbal playing, the intricate bass drum work, the fast and very accurate control he has over his snare. It's incredibly hard to copy his sound and approach in playing convoincongly, but anybody with a few years of drumming can ape a Bonham roll effectively and so that it is recognizable even to non-musicians. You can't do that with what Paice plays during Burn, it's beyond most drummers even today and if you try you tend to look silly."
Now, as we have a resident drummer here with Terr, explain to us, mighty honorable skinbeater, wherein the magic of Bonham's drumming lies for you? In drummer speak (and not just as a Zep fan) what fascinates you about his playing? Is it the ability/predicament to always be behind the beat? Is it his sound? His rolls? His bass drum work?
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Okay Uwe, you've made your point: you hate Led Zeppelin.
Each and every topic that handles anything remotely connected to LZ seems to be your chance to tell us... :bored:
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As Uwe has said, I'd also like to hear someone explain this in drummer speak. Whether someone likes or dislikes Led Zeppelin doesn't matter much to me. For several reasons, I'm interested in hearing more about drummers who play behind the beat. Whether that's supposed to be a good thing or a bad thing is really not the issue for me. I just want to know more. What would really be of interest to me would be clips of different drummers who are known for playing behind the beat.
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Okay Uwe, you've made your point: you hate Led Zeppelin.
Each and every topic that handles anything remotely connected to LZ seems to be your chance to tell us... :bored:
It's more complex than that. I find Zep's huge popularity intriguing. I don't deny their place in the pantheon of influential rock bands - you'd have to be deaf to do that, their influence is so distinct to this day -, I wonder why that is. They took blues, folk, a stellar singer, a behind-the-beat drummer, a hugely creative guitarist as regards chords and harmonies, but sloppy as a soloist, and a musicianly keyboarder/bassist and conquered America. Why? Few of their songs were catchy. They were often meandering, especially live. Plant was never a man of the people, but a rather aloof front man. None of their albums is overtly commercial, in fact if there is one thing I admire them for then it is their strong will to defy expectations from album to album (I have them all and listen to them with medical interest trying to determine what their x-factor was :mrgreen:).
If you asked me what the ingredients are that make me like Deep Purple or Be Bop DeLuxe, I could tell you off-hand several characteristics/trademarks in sound. Led Zep people have seemingly a hard time doing that - it seems heresy to even raise it. So is liking them all based on feel?
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Tell us why you don't like the Sex Pistols.
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So is liking them all based on feel?
I like `em! I was just trying to show a little respect for a passed player...... ;D
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I like my Sex Pistol ;)
I have to come down on the side of liking LZ, which is difficult for me actually....... Seattle radio played the livin' crap oit every LZ tune ( followed by Pink Floyd :puke: ) so there's very little that I can stand to listen to. But that aside they were a good, creative studio band and I really like Bonzo's playing and recorded sound for the most part and "When the levee breaks" is a personal fave.
Live is another matter.......maybe they had an off night when I saw them but not even two hits mescal could make them entertaining to me, frankly if I hadn't brought the sexy girl next door who was one year older than me I would have left, or fallen asleep.
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I like `em! I was just trying to show a little respect for a passed player...... ;D
Which is perfectly alright. The fact that they never toured or recorded again after his death shows how vital he was for their sound and their cohesion as a band.
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RIP JB
Only saw you play the once... Sorry, but I never thought you were a great drummer, I even detested your solos as overblown and extremely tedious, but together with those other 3 guys you made some music that been enjoyed by millions of people, myself included...
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/random%20stuff/smithpic032.jpg)
I sold this pic some years back and I believe it to be unpublished...
Neal Peart... now there's a drummer...
I'm a great admirer of Ed Cassidy, also the twin beat of Jaimoe and Butch Trucks...
The fact that they never toured or recorded again after his death shows how vital he was for their sound and their cohesion as a band.
There's a bit of me that wishes the Who had done the same after Moonie passed...
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Neal Peart... now there's a drummer...
One of my favorites for sure.....He has mad skills!
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Tell us why you don't like the Sex Pistols.
I fear the question is of rhethorical nature, but I'll spoil the party by giving reasons because they are easy for me to put in words:
- I heard the debut of the Ramones first. I loved the way that was produced, it sounded like no album had done before in my ears. When I heard the Sex Pistols debut (and I remember distinctly when that was: I was in Munich with a friend and we were staying in his sister's apartment, we had just bought the album and were expecting great things) I was aghast how dated the production sounded - like Chinn Chapmann backing tracks from a Sweet, Mud or Quatro album four years earlier. I had loved glam rock, but thatr sort of production had nothing to do how the Sex Pistols were to sound in my mind.
- I didn't see the Sex Pistols as a band, but as a vehicle for Rotten and McLaren. All the other members were workmanlike, Sid Vicious later on excepted, but they were already on their way down then. Rotten's vocals were overtly loud in the mix, I don't like that to this day, it devaluates the music. The Ramones, in contrast, had no star, but a great - beautiful in its simplicity - band image. That album cover of the debut is iconic, the Pistols one just garish.
- I was an avid NME reader back then, took my bicycle once a week for a 20 mile round trip to buy it in the next larger town. The NME feasted the Pistols (and all of fledgling punk) in 1976/77 excessively creating a frenzy of expectation for more than a year. When - after a myriad of signings with and exodusses from other record companies - Never Mind the Bollocks appeared on Virgin, the king had no clothes on.
- I loved the Ramones' power pop sensibility, their charged up bubblegum sound. In comparison, the song writing on the first Pistpls LP had very little finesse, it was neither tuneful nor radical or off the wall (like, say, Doctors of Madness were). Rotten didn't have Joey's sense of a good tune.
- People like the Pistols for their lyrics and how groundbreaking they were. I found them labored in their attempt to break as many taboos as possible ("Belsen was a gas", wow, what a hugely political statement that is, akin to scribbling a swastika against a toilet wall). In 1977, I was a politically aware (or misguided, George!) young man, I read a communist daily in Germany and my first vote went to the - miniscule - German communist party in 1979. Johnny Rotten describing the Queen as "a fascist regime" made me laugh, it was so naive and off the mark,, the man had no idea what fascism was, yet he was older than me. He sang about "Anarchy in the UK" based on a vague feeling of dissatisfaction with the English class system, but in reality had no idea what anarchy was. He probably thought it had something to do with throwing bombs.
- In essence, the Pistols were a hype. McLaren launched them as a hype and they delivered the goods that way. They weren't any more political than Alice Cooper or Marilyn Manson. The Ramones were apolitical in an unabashed way - no pretension. The Pistols were full of themselves and of pretension. The Ramones grew from scratch in an organic way, the Pistols were casted by Mclaren, with Rotten being dragged to a rehearsal of the then three-piece after being sighted in Malcolm's/Vivienne Westwood's fetish wear shop.
And they never wrote a catchy riff either. Nor do I hear much of an influence of theirs in the music of today. The Green Days of this world have more of a Ramones influence.
Does that explain somewhat why they do nothing for me? :-*
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I fear the question is of rhethorical nature...
:vader:
Does that explain somewhat why they do nothing for me? :-*
May the road rise with you.
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I thought most of LZ's stuff was very catchy, and I enjoyed it. Much of it "stuck in your head" and kept coming around and around for hours. That's a big part of what it takes to be popular.
I frankly don't care whether the drummer is perfect, or proficient, or whatever. I want something that's catchy and fun to hear.
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May the road rise with you.
Well played, Dave!
;D
I think the Pistols were and are a giant piss take on the whole fame industry, which makes me like them more simply for that. I get the feeling, even with early footage from their first go-round, that John Lydon was skewering his 'adoring' fans as much as everything else they were commenting on and making fun of. Two fingers up to everyone.
In a completely unrelated aside I often wonder if Michael Moore is doing the same exact thing. Nobody can be as stupid as he comes across most of the time and still be as successful as he is (this is just my opinion, of course). I could be wrong and he may not believe or even know it himself, but he comes across to me as a shining example of (one version of) the Capitalist system he so loves to abhor. PT Barnum would have understood him completely, as well as the Sex Pistols, I think...
How's that for off topic?
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Now that is interesting, I bever found them catchy except for a few songs, neither Stairway or Kashmir have marked chorusses ... I don't even mean that as a criticism, I thought it was a conscious move to defy traditional song structure in a band that shunned having any of its material released as a single. A lot of Zep's melodies sound esoteric to me, that Eastern, ethno influence ... the almost always extended chords that went beyond root, third and fifth. Their disregard for minor and major keys and harmonies (mixing both) etc. All that is in fact quite original, but catchy?
Do Zep perhaps sound to American to me (and hence their popularity there?). I remember a Rolling Stone review of DP's Burn and it said: "DP still sound as Yuropean as a vampire movie ...". It always made me wonder whether bands like DP or Uriah Heep, which were more successful in Europe than Led Zep, catered more to European, classical music schooled tastes, while Zep with their blues, celtic and ethno ingredients had the recipe for the US market. A valid theory?
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With regard to the Ramones-
I distinctly remember reading about them in "Rock Scene" magazine, a Northeast US rag/mag that specialized in covering Max's, CBGBs etc. They regularly featured Kiss, The Dolls, Aerosmith, Queen, Mott etc - so when I began to see photo spreads of the leather jacketed Ramones, I figured I should get on the bandwagon early and buy the LP when it came out.
I cannot overstate the profound sense of shock and disbelief at how spectacularly BAD I thought that album was. Where were the lead breaks? Why do the vocals sound so... mentally deficient? I wanted it off my turntable and out of my record collection - lest somebody think I had spent money on it. To this day I have yet to be as let down by an album purchase as I was with that one. As time wore on and they developed a knack for writing better hooks, I, if not took a liking, at least lost that profound sense of disgust that the first album incurred.
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Long hair, jeans and tee's right through that era... pretty much the only thing that's changed is the hairline; maybe the waistline...
So Uwe was an avid reader of NME... Can you remember any of the house snappers...? this one took the Bonham pic I posted... used to live just up the road from me, I bought hundreds of the cast off shots, still have dozens of slides (including a few Knebworth shots), and a few select B&W's, even some album covers... taught me a few good tips too...
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Re Lowend's Ramone experience: One man's Ramones is another man's Sex Pistols!
The NME also made me aware of The Dictators. And, ironically, of Judas Priest. They gave all Judas Priest albums and gigs such horrible reviews, I automatically became curious and bought Sin after Sin which I thought brilliant.
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It always made me wonder whether bands like DP or Uriah Heep, which were more successful in Europe than Led Zep, catered more to European, classical music schooled tastes, while Zep with their blues, celtic and ethno ingredients had the recipe for the US market. A valid theory?
Might be! Certainly their more straight-ahead stuff appeals to me the most. BTW - I tend to listen more for guitar and bass than drums.
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That is another oddity with Zep, they are remembered/qualified as a hard rock band, but only a minority of their work fits that bill (it infuriates Plant when Led Zep are called inventors of heavy metal, he thinks only Deep Purple and Black Sabbath sould bear that heavy burden). Some Zep albums had no hard rocking track at all (Houses of the Holy), some only one (III). I haven't done a count, but Zep's blues numbers and folk titles must outnumber their hard rocking output like 4:1. That is not knoicking them, they were a versatile band, yet always retained an immediately recognizable style and sound. My favorite Zep album is their most vbersatile one: Physical Graffiti. Even though when I first heard it I thought the only immediately accessible/catchy song was Boogie with Stu!
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That is another oddity with Zep, they are remembered/qualified as a hard rock band, but only a minority of their work fits that bill (it infuriates Plant when Led Zep are called inventors of heavy metal, he thinks only Deep Purple and Black Sabbath sould bear that heavy burden). Some Zep albums had no hard rocking track at all (Houses of the Holy), some only one (III). I haven't done a count, but Zep's blues numbers and folk titles must outnumber their hard rocking output like 4:1. That is not knoicking them, they were a versatile band, yet always retained an immediately recognizable style and sound. My favorite Zep album is their most vbersatile one: Physical Graffiti. Even though when I first heard it I thought the only immediately accessible/catchy song was Boogie with Stu!
PG is my fave also.
While HOTH has no "Black Dog", I think "The Ocean" certainly qualifies as hard rocking - and is one of my favorite Zep songs to play.
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George, only when reading your post twice, did I realize you were talking about Michael Moore and not Michael Monroe. My first thought was: Why is he hitting on that poor fin now? LOL!
Michael Moore is tiresome. He is also intellectually bullying which I don't rate high with people. He's a very American creation, messianic fervor and all. I might share some of his views, but he's generally over the top and devoid of humor or self-recognition/-realization. An unpleasant man. I'd feel much better if he was a conservative, really! ; - )
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not a zep fan here...although the bass tone on the first couple albums is to die for....I'll listen just for that
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i feel the same way about moore and others of his ilk, like peta. but it often takes annoying, over the top behavior to wake people up to what is happening and get the ball rolling on dealing with the topics they bring up. yes, moore should go to the darkside.
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George, only when reading your post twice, did I realize you were talking about Michael Moore and not Michael Monroe.
.....
I'd feel much better if he was a conservative, really! ; - )
I'll take Michael Monroe (been a Hanoi fan since 1982 or 3) and you can keep Michael Moore! :mrgreen:
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I'll take Michael Monroe (been a Hanoi fan since 1982 or 3) and you can keep Michael Moore! :mrgreen:
I agree wholeheartedly :mrgreen:
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Actually Led Zeppelin's music bores me to no end. Its not the individule members John Paul Jones in particular is a great musician but Plant got a lot of use out of the Hobbit/Lord of the Ring triliogy for lyrics and Page more than a few people have accused him of taking advantge of others music and while I'm bitching I hate that violin bow crap and Uwe hit the nail on the head about Bonham.
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Hard to believe it has been 30 years. Count me as a huge Zeppelin fan! BTW, I think Steve Gadd's drumming on the title track from Aja has to be some of the best ever.
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Growing up Led Zep was never my favorite band but I have always loved certain songs. As I grew older I began liking them even more although I always felt Jimmy Page was overrated as a guitar player. Honestly, I rather enjoyed Bonham's sometimes non-syncopatic drumming and thought he used it as an asset.
I always hated it that radio stations lumped LZ, Deep Purple, Iron Maiden, etc into the "hard rock" category because it always seemed like a bullshit designation to me. Some of those bands created their own categories and never fit in any other.
Speaking of drummers, Carl Palmer has always amazed me and I think Nick Mason has always been underrated, especially when you listen to lots of that very early '70s live stuff.
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I was a blissful Rush fan type teenager myself then in the fall of my junior year of highschool (1977) I spotted this beautiful, and I do mean beautiful, wack job of a girl with a fun house hair cut, and side show goofy clothes - yep, the only only punk girl in my little town of maybe 12,000 - could I pick 'em or what!. God did I ever think her choice in music sucked!! Ramones, Dictators, Buzzcocks, Sex Pistols, The Jam, The Clash - WTF had I gotten myself into? But, she was something else, and would have definately been out of my league, and she acted like she didn't hate me, so I stuck around ;) Somehow in the process all of the LZ, Rush, Kiss etc. started going unplayed and the other stuff started not seeming like the utter crap it started out as.
Long story short - I would still rather hear a Ramones song than one by LZ. I can't help but grin when I hear ONETWOTHREEFOUR at the start of song!
I can say that her hairstyle and clothes have settled down in the last 33 years but damn if she still doesn't listen to some of the goofiest crap :P
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So did you marry her?
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(I suspect by the last line she's Mrs Lightyear - if not, someone had better hope that the Mrs Lightyear doe not read Mr Lightyear's posts... :o)
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In a completely unrelated aside I often wonder if Michael Moore is doing the same exact thing. Nobody can be as stupid as he comes across most of the time and still be as successful as he is (this is just my opinion, of course). I could be wrong and he may not believe or even know it himself, but he comes across to me as a shining example of (one version of) the Capitalist system he so loves to abhor.
..can't say I disagree with you. Though I agree with most of Micheal Moores stated political stances, I find him tiresome, insincere and elitist. He's the perfect charicature for the right to use to call Democrats out-of-touch, overprivileged busybodies. If he actually cared for the causes he claims he does, he could try to be a little more respectable. He made ONE good movie, "Roger and Me." The only thing since then that didn't have me rolling my eyes completely was "Capitalism: A Love Story" because it at least had some of the wit and charm his past advocacy pieces lacked and didn't leave me feeling utterly depressed after watching it.
BTW, I like Bonzo. My favorite living drummers are Chad Smith, Chuck Biscuits, Puffy Borden, Dave Grohl and Kenny Arnoff. Of those, Grohl plays most like Bonzo, but is far more technically capable.
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My favorite LZ album would be LZ II. The bass on What is and What Should Never Be, The Lemon Song and Moby Dick is simply fantastic. I really haven't followed them closely, but that 1969 album never gets old to me.
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LZ II was undoubtedly a benchmark of its time, the music, the cover, everything. When I think of that phase when the late sixties merged into the seventies and flower power ended, I think of that cover and the one of Deep Purple in Rock (actually an album influenced by the concept of Led Zep II as the Purps have readily admitted).
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So did you marry her?
Yep, I was a couple of weeks shy of 20 and she was 19 :o Wouldn't suggest getting married that young to anyone but it's worked out well for us. Just as long as I follow directions... :rolleyes:
Oh, and she still doesn't like LZ ;)
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Hot Dog... :P
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Hey, that's romantic! Congrats!!!
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Hats off to John Henry BONZO Bonham! What made him so wonderful?
His POWER! He hit the HARDEST & LONGEST & played 1 26" KICK!
A French woman called him Le Bete--a nickname which summed him up--THE BEAST!
Zep I was a HUGE part of the soundtrack for my life my first year in high school & that's when I saw 'em for the first time.
Tho they only had one album out they did extended versions of all the songs & added some Elvis songs & Blueberry Hill to their encore so it was a 3 hour show!!!
Zep II was released during my 2nd year in high school & I saw 'em do a 3 hour show again!!
Zep III then ROCKED my senior year & they played for 3 & a half hours that show with BONZO doing a 45 minute Moby Dick! I stood right behind him watching from a railing before he had a GONG that woulda blocked my view.
Watching him GO OFF from that angle was AMAZING!
What caused so much enthusiasm in Zep's fans was Zep's enthusiasm! They LOVED to play!!!!
They gave you your money's worth & you left feeling well satisfied.
Before Stairway made EVERYONE a Zep fan they were the Zep cult & it was so cool to be part of that secret faternity.
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Amen to that Terr! He played on quite a few classic tracks before age of 23. Wish I had 1/4 the talent of those guys. Don't get me wrong, I like The Ramones. But I like the way Sir Paul yelled out "One, Two, Three, F$#k!!" on the classic "Saw Her Standing There" which came out quite a few years earlier. (OK, maybe he did say "four", but after listening to the track on my Mono Box Set I'm not quite sure.....
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Ok, Terr, you saw them then when they were breaking America. That is a good enough excuse for lifelong affection/affliction. Ramble on!
Uwe
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Before Stairway made EVERYONE a Zep fan they were the Zep cult & it was so cool to be part of that secret faternity.
Yeah, a cult so secretive that their first three albums went platinum several times over and they sold out arenas and stadiums all over North America well before Stairway. They were huge by the time Led Zeppelin II hit the charts.
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I was a blissful Rush fan type teenager myself then in the fall of my junior year of highschool (1977) I spotted this beautiful, and I do mean beautiful, wack job of a girl with a fun house hair cut, and side show goofy clothes - yep, the only only punk girl in my little town of maybe 12,000 - could I pick 'em or what!. God did I ever think her choice in music sucked!! Ramones, Dictators, Buzzcocks, Sex Pistols, The Jam, The Clash - WTF had I gotten myself into? But, she was something else, and would have definately been out of my league, and she acted like she didn't hate me, so I stuck around ;) Somehow in the process all of the LZ, Rush, Kiss etc. started going unplayed and the other stuff started not seeming like the utter crap it started out as.
Long story short - I would still rather hear a Ramones song than one by LZ. I can't help but grin when I hear ONETWOTHREEFOUR at the start of song!
I can say that her hairstyle and clothes have settled down in the last 33 years but damn if she still doesn't listen to some of the goofiest crap :P
8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJYjr-vUKZM
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Their third LP was a poor seller and did not go multi-platinum until the early 1990's. They did play Palmer Auditorium in Austin (their only Austin appearance) in August 1969. A "huge" arena that probably held 1000 on a good night. I don't think the stadium tours started until later.
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2exsj2b.jpg)
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Their third LP was a poor seller and did not go multi-platinum until the early 1990's. They did play Palmer Auditorium in Austin (their only Austin appearance) in August 1969. A "huge" arena that probably held 1000 on a good night. I don't think the stadium tours started until later.
Poor seller? It wasn't as big as LZ II but it reached number 1 on the Billboard album chart at the time. According to Billboard LZ IV only got to number 2.
They sold out the old Met Center here in 1970 (capacity about 15,000). They mostly played auditoriums and arenas back that early, but I do recall being amazed to read about a stadium concert they did somewhere in the US where they sold out at $40 a ticket, which was unheard of at the time.
They were big. The buzz about them was huge. Of course not everyone was a fan, not by a long shot. Some critics hated them, especially some at Rolling Stone.
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8)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJYjr-vUKZM
;D ;D ;D 8)
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I didn't know Master Dave knew so much about Led Zep.
Now I'm really jealeous. He never knew that much about Deep Purple. Talk about adding insult to injury ...
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I don't know much about them other than what was public and obvious back then.
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Yeah, a cult so secretive that their first three albums went platinum several times over and they sold out arenas and stadiums all over North America well before Stairway. They were huge by the time Led Zeppelin II hit the charts.
Ok~ so it was an open secret. :P
Yeah, the "secret cult" was a meeting of 17,000 kids but at least we didn't have to sleep in line to get tix.
In '72 I did stay in line all night for Stones & Who tix!! & FOUGHT for 'em too!!
John Bonham was FANTASTIC & Jones made him sound even better!!
What a Rhythm Section!!
You guys who don't love Zep would if you saw 'em stoned outa your mind on LSD!!! ha haaaa haaaaa
I also remember a radio station announcement back in the 70s that said "Led Zeppelin is America's favorite band to have sex to, according to a survey."
There's your X factor, Uwe! lol
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I found Led Zeppelin to be somewhat of a disappointment. Hendrix and Cream were hard acts to follow. If I had to pick the greatest band of the 70s, it would be the Allman Brothers band. Although they had some great songs, I could just never emotionally connect with Led Zeppelin.
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Growing up Led Zep was never my favorite band but I have always loved certain songs. As I grew older I began liking them even more although I always felt Jimmy Page was overrated as a guitar player. Honestly, I rather enjoyed Bonham's sometimes non-syncopatic drumming and thought he used it as an asset.
I always hated it that radio stations lumped LZ, Deep Purple, Iron Maiden, etc into the "hard rock" category because it always seemed like a bullshit designation to me. Some of those bands created their own categories and never fit in any other.
Speaking of drummers, Carl Palmer has always amazed me and I think Nick Mason has always been underrated, especially when you listen to lots of that very early '70s live stuff.
I've never been very good with trying to analyze categories. But to me during the 70s there really did seem to be a hunger in America for what I'd call hard rock. This became especially noticeable to me over the summer when a friend and I spent several hours one night listening to songs that had been hits in the 70s. We didn't just focus on the U.S., either. Gradually, I began to see a pattern. It seemed to me that during the 70s there was more of an appetite for hard rock than I had realized, especially when I began to compare what had been hits in the U.S. to what had been hits in other countries. The fact that Led Zeppelin was popular made perfect sense. My friend had been on a vacation to Finland not long ago. He played an entire CD of songs from different artists that had been popular in Finland in 2009. Of course I couldn't understand a word, but the genre is what I'd call hard rock. It's a broad genre and it may be a BS designation sometimes when some bands labeled that way really belong to a different genre. All I know is that after listening to that Finnish CD it became clear that my taste in music must be closer to the Finns than to the Americans now. Whatever they are calling that music in Finland, whether it's hard rock or whatever, I really liked it.
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Hard Rock ruled the airwaves internationally from 1969-74 and then again from 83-89. It comes and goes in waves, adapts and incorporates other styles. And is incorporated: A lot of New Country has AOR hard rock arrangements. And then there are eternal hard rock hunting grounds such as Scandinavia.
What I find fascinating is that Led Zep ruled America, but in Germany could never achieve the sales of say Deep Purple, Uriah Heep (huger in Germany than anywhere else, in the late seventies they had three hit singles in the chartts simultaneoisly, that was when their sales in the US abd UK had already dropped out of top 100 sight) or Status Quo. Led Zep were about as popular as B grade hardrock bands such as Nazareth and Ufo. They hardly toured Germany (or the continent) and you can of course ask the question whether Peter Grant had them only touring America because they were more popular there or whether they were more popular in the US due to their incessant touring there. IIRC, Zeppelin toured Germany at the beginning of their career and then again at the end in 1980 or so, never in between. And Germany was the largest rock vinyl market after the USA and Japan.
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terr, you are apparently operating from the official 'lysergic' calander
things are always different over there.
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my choice for a 'rock' drummer to play with would be charlie watts, ringo or simon kirk.
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I think my initial attraction to them was the LZII cover. My older sisters bought the album new and I was 8 years old when it came out. I still love Page's solo on Whole Lotta Love and the way Heartbreaker ends and Living Loving Maid starts. They sure had a lot of variety on their 8 studio LP's. Allmusic.com says this about them:
Led Zeppelin was the definitive heavy metal band. It wasn't just their crushingly loud interpretation of the blues -- it was how they incorporated mythology, mysticism, and a variety of other genres (most notably world music and British folk) -- into their sound. Led Zeppelin had mystique. They rarely gave interviews, since the music press detested the band. Consequently, the only connection the audience had with the band was through the records and the concerts. More than any other band, Led Zeppelin established the concept of album-oriented rock, refusing to release popular songs from their albums as singles. In doing so, they established the dominant format for heavy metal, as well as the genre's actual sound.
Led Zeppelin formed out of the ashes of the Yardbirds. Jimmy Page had joined the band in its final days, playing a pivotal role on their final album, 1967's Little Games, which also featured string arrangements from John Paul Jones. During 1967, the Yardbirds were fairly inactive. While the Yardbirds decided their future, Page returned to session work in 1967. In the spring of 1968, he played on Jones' arrangement of Donovan's "Hurdy Gurdy Man." During the sessions, Jones requested to be part of any future project Page would develop. Page would have to assemble a band sooner than he had planned. In the summer of 1968, the Yardbirds' Keith Relf and James McCarty left the band, leaving Page and bassist Chris Dreja with the rights to the name, as well as the obligation of fulfilling an upcoming fall tour. Page set out to find a replacement vocalist and drummer. Initially, he wanted to enlist singer Terry Reid and Procol Harum's drummer B.J. Wilson, but neither musician was able to join the group. Reid suggested that Page contact Robert Plant, who was singing with a band called Hobbstweedle.
After hearing him sing, Page asked Plant to join the band in August of 1968, the same month Chris Dreja dropped out of the new project. Following Dreja's departure, John Paul Jones joined the group as its bassist. Plant recommended that Page hire John Bonham, the drummer for Plant's old band, the Band of Joy. Bonham had to be persuaded to join the group, as he was being courted by other artists who offered the drummer considerably more money. By September, Bonham agreed to join the band. Performing under the name the New Yardbirds, the band fulfilled the Yardbirds' previously booked engagements in late September 1968. The following month, they recorded their debut album in just under 30 hours. Also in October, the group switched its name to Led Zeppelin. The band secured a contract with Atlantic Records in the United States before the end of the year. Early in 1969, Led Zeppelin set out on their first American tour, which helped set the stage for the January release of their eponymous debut album. Two months after its release, Led Zeppelin had climbed into the U.S. Top Ten. Throughout 1969, the band toured relentlessly, playing dates in America and England. While they were on the road, they recorded their second album, Led Zeppelin II, which was released in October of 1969. Like its predecessor, Led Zeppelin II was an immediate hit, topping the American charts two months after its release and spending seven weeks at number one. The album helped establish Led Zeppelin as an international concert attraction, and for the next year, the group continued to tour relentlessly. Led Zeppelin's sound began to deepen with Led Zeppelin III. Released in October of 1970, the album featured an overt British folk influence. The group's infatuation with folk and mythology would reach a fruition on the group's untitled fourth album, which was released in November of 1971. Led Zeppelin IV was the band's most musically diverse effort to date, featuring everything from the crunching rock of "Black Dog" to the folk of "The Battle of Evermore," as well as "Stairway to Heaven," which found the bridge between the two genres. "Stairway to Heaven" was an immediate radio hit, eventually becoming the most played song in the history of album-oriented radio; the song was never released as a single. Despite the fact that the album never reached number one in America, Led Zeppelin IV was their biggest album ever, selling well over 16 million copies over the next two and a half decades.
Led Zeppelin did tour to support both Led Zeppelin III and Led Zeppelin IV, but they played fewer shows than they did on their previous tours. Instead, they concentrated on only playing larger venues. After completing their 1972 tour, the band retreated from the spotlight and recorded their fifth album. Released in the spring of 1973, Houses of the Holy continued the band's musical experimentation, featuring touches of funk and reggae among their trademark rock and folk. The success of Houses of the Holy set the stage for a record-breaking American tour. Throughout their 1973 tour, Led Zeppelin broke box-office records -- most of which were previously held by the Beatles -- across America. The group's concert at Madison Square Garden in July was filmed for use in the feature film The Song Remains the Same, which was released three years later. After their 1973 tour, Led Zeppelin spent a quiet year during 1974, releasing no new material and performing no concerts. They did, however, establish their own record label, Swan Song, which released all of Led Zeppelin's subsequent albums, as well as records by Dave Edmunds, Bad Company, the Pretty Things, and several others. Physical Graffiti, a double album released in February of 1975, was the band's first release on Swan Song. The album was an immediate success, topping the charts in both America and England. Led Zeppelin launched a large American tour in 1975, but it came to a halt when Robert Plant and his wife suffered a serious car crash while vacationing in Greece. The tour was canceled and Plant spent the rest of the year recuperating from the accident.
Led Zeppelin returned to action in the spring of 1976 with Presence. Although the album debuted at number one in both America and England, the reviews for the album were lukewarm, as was the reception to the live concert film The Song Remains the Same, which appeared in the fall of 1976. The band finally returned to tour America in the Spring of 1977. A couple of months into the tour, Plant's six-year-old son Karac died of a stomach infection. Led Zeppelin immediately canceled the tour and offered no word whether or not it would be rescheduled, causing widespread speculation about the band's future. For a while, it did appear that Led Zeppelin was finished. Robert Plant spent the latter half of 1977 and the better part of 1978 in seclusion. The group didn't begin work on a new album until late in the summer of 1978, when they began recording at ABBA's Polar studios in Sweden. A year later, the band played a short European tour, performing in Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Belgium, and Austria. In August of 1979, Led Zeppelin played two large concerts at Knebworth; the shows would be their last English performances.
In Through the Out Door, the band's much-delayed eighth studio album, was finally released in September of 1979. The album entered the charts at number one in both America and England. In May of 1980, Led Zeppelin embarked on their final European tour. In September, Led Zeppelin began rehearsing at Jimmy Page's house in preparation for an American tour. On September 25, John Bonham was found dead in his bed -- following an all-day drinking binge, he had passed out and choked on his own vomit. In December of 1980, Led Zeppelin announced they were disbanding, since they could not continue without Bonham.
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Led Zeppelin was the definitive heavy metal band. It wasn't just their crushingly loud interpretation of the blues -- it was how they incorporated mythology, mysticism, and a variety of other genres (most notably world music and British folk) -- into their sound. Led Zeppelin had mystique. They rarely gave interviews, since the music press detested the band. Consequently, the only connection the audience had with the band was through the records and the concerts. More than any other band, Led Zeppelin established the concept of album-oriented rock, refusing to release popular songs from their albums as singles. In doing so, they established the dominant format for heavy metal, as well as the genre's actual sound.
Throughout their 1973 tour, Led Zeppelin broke box-office records -- most of which were previously held by the Beatles -- across America.
They did establish their own record label, Swan Song, which released all of Led Zeppelin's subsequent albums, as well as records by Dave Edmunds, Bad Company, the Pretty Things, and several others. Physical Graffiti, a double album released in February of 1975, was the band's first release on Swan Song. The album was an immediate success, topping the charts in both America and England. Led Zeppelin launched a large American tour in 1975
Led Zeppelin returned to action in the spring of 1976 with Presence. Although the album debuted at number one in both America and England, the reviews for the album were lukewarm, as was the reception to the live concert film The Song Remains the Same, which appeared in the fall of 1976. The band finally returned to tour America in the Spring of 1977. A couple of months into the tour, Plant's six-year-old son Karac died of a stomach infection. Led Zeppelin immediately canceled the tour and offered no word whether or not it would be rescheduled, causing widespread speculation about the band's future. For a while, it did appear that Led Zeppelin was finished. Robert Plant spent the latter half of 1977 and the better part of 1978 in seclusion. The group didn't begin work on a new album until late in the summer of 1978, when they began recording at ABBA's Polar studios in Sweden. A year later, the band played a short European tour, performing in Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Belgium, and Austria. In August of 1979, Led Zeppelin played two large concerts at Knebworth; the shows would be their last English performances.
In Through the Out Door, the band's much-delayed eighth studio album, was finally released in September of 1979. The album entered the charts at number one in both America and England. In May of 1980, Led Zeppelin embarked on their final European tour. In September, Led Zeppelin began rehearsing at Jimmy Page's house in preparation for an American tour. On September 25, John Bonham was found dead in his bed -- following an all-day drinking binge, he had passed out and choked on his own vomit. In December of 1980, Led Zeppelin announced they were disbanding, since they could not continue without Bonham.
Nice summary of the band there, Hornisse.
Some of you seem to have overlooked Bad Co.--also mentioned here--the first band to sign to Zep's Swan Song label. They were another GREAT No. 1 Hard Rock band of the 70s!!!!
Presence is a BADASS Zep album & fully deserved it's Number One status in America & England.
Achilles Last Stand is Bonzo at his BEAST er BEST! heh
Hey~ at least Plant didn't call his new band Hobbstweedle. ;D
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That summary was written by Allmusic.com Terr. And I agree about Presence! JPJ's 8 string bass on Nobody's Fault But Mine and Achilles is super! (as well as Bonzo's drumming!)
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Yeah! Jones is PHENOMENAL!
It's strange that he took so long to produce a solo album but his 1999 ZOOMA album is among my favs.
I wanna post that great photo of Bonham & Jones smiling happily at the camera onstage...I'm sure you all know the one I mean.
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JPJ was a big influence on me when I started playing. When I was around 12 I got to take lessons from a guy who was a staunch jazz traditionalist. I was working through my Mel Bay lessons, etc.. but I've always been lazy and preferred to just figure things out by listening. Well I happened to get a copy of Zep II, and when I went in the next week and was playing a walking bass line my teacher was all happy. Then I told him it because I was listening to the Lemon Song ;D.
I vividly remember the facepalm he did!
(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k125/0chromium0/forums/smilies/picard.png)
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Hard Rock ruled the airwaves internationally from 1969-74 and then again from 83-89. It comes and goes in waves, adapts and incorporates other styles. And is incorporated: A lot of New Country has AOR hard rock arrangements.
Forget arrangement; a LOT of what was formerly "new country" is every bit as rockin' as it was in the rockabilly 50's. It's shocking to me how diverse and musically deep the modern country genre has become, while 'hard rock' is stale, programmed, Pro-Tools 'music' dominated by semi-literate reality television rejects. It really is true; the rock bands left Seattle and moved to Nashville. there's some amazing stuff going on there.
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I always liked Bonham, at least for the sound of his kit - which is as much Jimmy Page's work as his. And I always liked Led Zep, as they are one of those bands that veered off track every so often enough that you can be in the mood for one lp and not the others. I think the first lp is a great record, but it is really the great lost Yardbirds album. And Physical Graffitti is a great time and place thing. I first heard it on an 8 track that my friend stole from his brother. It sounded like drugs to me. I think Bonham did better work in the studio vs live, although there is plenty of live stuff early on that is solid and not plodding.
I prefer Ringo, Charlie Watts, Mitch Mitchel and Stewart Copeland for rock drummers.
Loved the Sex Pistols. The Ramones were a one trick pony, although the End of The Century was fun. Michael Moore is a bazo. Country is basically 70s shit rock now.
It is always fascinating to think of what bands are or were more happening in one place or another. Deep Purple were huge, but Uriah Heep were just something you read about in Circus while you hung out at 7-11. There were loads of bands that never got airplay in some parts of the country. I only read about bands like Black Oak, Mahogany Rush, Angel, New England - they never got on the radio but they weren't underground say the way King Crimson ended up.
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i don't think king crimson was 'underground' in the united states, it's just that many people did not like them. that first lp was very popular, in some cases for nothing more than the cover art.
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The first lp was very popular. In terms of classic progressive rock it was as big as anything Yes or Rush ever did, or even Led Zep at the time, and got as much and maybe more airplay in the old days of FM rock. But everything after the Wake Of Poseidon was college circuit stuff. Very, extremely underground with zero rock-format airplay. In terms of press and radio they were on par with stuff like Joan Armatrading and The Clash - for college radio only. The first lp is still considered classic rock, even though now it gets almost no airplay on those types of formatted radio stations.
To get back to LZ, I find John Paul Jones' playing to fantastic on the first few lps, especially the tone on Dazed and Confused which is how a bass should sound. After around Presence, when he goes overboard on the Alembic with roundwounds, he sounds horrid.
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I remembered this thread when a friend of mine linked this on facebook.
Bonham haters, eat this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14GYov0EdyQ&feature=share
:P
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I remembered this thread when a friend of mine linked this on facebook.
Bonham haters, eat this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14GYov0EdyQ&feature=share
:P
Niiiiice! It cut out just before The BIG Fill tho. Alas
I hit that BIG fill just PURRRfectly once that he does off the snare roll on the studio version of Fool in the Rain & my guitarplayer Steve's jaw hit the ground.
Then when we finished it he screamed, "All RIIIIIIIIIGHT!" & complimented me on that fill.
I just huffed on me nails an' shined 'em on me lapel. ;)
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But could he have played this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfzv3bf9-OY
IMHO: Never. :rimshot: :rimshot: :rimshot: :rimshot: :rimshot: :rimshot: :rimshot: :rimshot: :rimshot: :rimshot:
And I defy Herr Bonham to swing sthrough something with weird time signatures like Paice does on this track (at the end of the interview) with Wakeman. That to me is great drumming. Elegant, nimble, musical.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF1l-WB-DFo&feature=related
Herr Bonham might be to drums what Keith Richard was/is to rhythm guitar, but don't make him Jimi Hendrix.
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It's only because Ian Paice was a lefty! ;)
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Yes, but not with his drum set set up in real lefty mode, but as a mirror image of himself because he didn't know any better ("in the mirror I didn't look any different from all the righthand drummers I saw"). He actually regrets not learning right hand for a while because the independence of his stronger left hand would have been marvellous. He actually recommends lefty drummers to learn righty for a while for just that reason.
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Here's one of the reasons Bonzo Rools:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1PoxTp7jIM
Now here's why Plant wanted Michael Lee on drums when Zep got inducted into the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPtY3XzoUV0
Jason played the RnR HoF tho. Michael Lee RIP
Charlie Jones is so cool with his see thru bass. What brand is that?
Zep rehearsals:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu9JNoqM2Vo
This is my Current Fav Zep Song! Best Bassplayer Ever & Best Drummer Ever working together SO amazingly!!