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Main Forums => The Bass Zone => Topic started by: patman on April 27, 2010, 10:25:42 AM

Title: Acoustic Basses
Post by: patman on April 27, 2010, 10:25:42 AM
Anybody have any luck with these?

I've been fooling with an old Guild thin hollowbody, and it seems like there are some really cool sounds to be had...I've just never had a lot of luck with previous acoustics I've used on stage.  This one is a better quality instrument than all the others, though.  Feels real responsive in my hands.

Anybody use a Godin A4 or A5?
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: rahock on April 27, 2010, 11:14:49 AM
I'm not sure which Godin is which but their thin bodied ones are a fine sounding electric instrument, but that thin body makes them just above nothing as an unplugged acoustic. They are great as long as all you do is plugged in stuff.
I've been playing an Earthwood since about 1972 and it's huge body makes it the holy grail for unplugged acoustic sound. The old fat bodied Guilds are really nice too. The negative side of the old fat bodies is that they're freakin' huge, and like most older acoustics, you're not going to get much use beyond the 12th fret. You can't beat them for acoustic tone and volume .
The new stuff plays really nice with their smaller bodies, electric like necks and cutaways to allow you to light it up beyond the 12th fret. The bad news is that most of them sound like crap unplugged and don't have squat for unplugged volume.
Tacomas are head and shoulders above the rest IMO. Great sound , great volume , and the feel is as good as anything you'll ever get your hands on. They are made from good solid wood and they are a bit pricey. Their Korean made version is the Olympia. It is the same construction , but it is a cheaper plywood laminate and lacks some of the resonance that its solid wood American Tacoma has. They are dirt cheap and they still sound better than anything I've come across at two and even three times its' cost. I bought one a few years back because my Earthwood is too valuable to take out and beat up .
I love my Olympia ;D I use it plugged in so I put on a set of La' Bella tape wound strings {thanks to nofis advice} and this thing has the smoothest uprightlike sound you can imagine.

I have played a lot of ABGs over the years and to be perfectly honest, there are only a few I like, and I believe I've mentioned them all. I'm sure nofi will show up for this thread and I pretty sure he'll have a pretty short list too.
Rick

Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: patman on April 27, 2010, 11:41:43 AM
Am really only interested in "plugged in" use...

Wondered if anyone has extensive experience using these for "stage"...

Wondered what a phospher bronze 5 string would sound like.

Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: nofi on April 27, 2010, 05:18:26 PM
what rick said. most abgs sound like ass except the ones rick mentioned plus he has lots of plugged in 'stage'experince. you can trust what he says. i too would suggest a godin or a maybe a rob allen. both are thin body and  sound great plugged in. could go slumming and get a fender victor baily abg. they sound ok plugged in. of course consider what amp you will use.
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: Freuds_Cat on April 27, 2010, 07:02:03 PM
I've had 3 over the years, an Eston that I had years ago which was pretty rubbish, an Epiphone El Capitan which was better than the Eston but still quiet when unplugged both of which I sold. About 2 years ago I bought a cheap British brand named (Brunswick) Made in Indonesia  this is the one that I have kept. It has a ply top and a cutaway for upper fret access. It is at least medium loud and has a nice tone. The best thing about it is that it has an Artec piezzo system and sounds great plugged in. The most unusual thing about it is that it has a 32" neck and the E string resonates evenly with the rest of the strings. The neck has a similar feel to say an Epi Jack Casady bass.

I like it because its cheap, sounds good and I can throw it in the back of my car (no case) when I go camping or over to a mates place for a few drinks or a barby. Meanwhile I can still play it live and know it will sound good.
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: Dave W on April 27, 2010, 07:45:36 PM
I played a 5-string Epi El Capitan several times in a store, mainly because it sat there unsold for so long (it looked lonely  ;) ) . The acoustic volume wasn't much louder than a resonant solid body. The top was way too thick, which I suppose was necessary to handle the long scale 5-string tension. Why even bother if the end result is that you can hardly hear yourself unplugged.
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: stiles72 on April 27, 2010, 08:28:33 PM
The best sounding ABG I ever played was a beat up, hooker red, Kramer Ferrington that I saw in a Pawn Shop. I remember it was strung with flats, had extremely high action,  and had a very upright tone. Sounded killer - would have never guessed!

A few years ago I was getting asked to do some side work with a couple of guitarists playing  "MTV Unplugged" era material - AIC, STP, Pearl Jam etc..., so I went looking for an acoustic bass to compelte the acoustic vibe of the act. I really didn't like the feel or tone of most of the ABG's I came across,  and I ended up getting a De Armond Starfire instead. It sounded much warmer and woody, plus I figured it could also be used with an electric band as well.  The only thing I wasn't crazy about was the 32" medium scale length, but I've since learned to adjust. Haven't swapped out the pups for Darkstars yet - but that may be in the future...
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: nofi on April 28, 2010, 05:46:54 AM
the older dean performer series are 32" scale and sound great plugged in. not too expensive either.
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: rahock on April 28, 2010, 07:53:13 AM
Quote from: patman on April 27, 2010, 11:41:43 AM
Am really only interested in "plugged in" use...

Wondered if anyone has extensive experience using these for "stage"...

Wondered what a phospher bronze 5 string would sound like.



I've got no stage experience with Godin, only played one in a store and I was impressed with the plugged in quality a lot. I'm not a 5 string guy, but I have played a few 5 string ABGs and as an acoustic instrument the 5 string thing doesn't work out too well. They tend to have an unbalanced string volume, but if you're going all electric , that will be compensated for and it would work out fine.

The bronze phospher strings are pretty much a neccessity to acheive the maximum unplugged volume, but if you're going the all plugged in route, I can't say enough good things about how great a set of La'Bella tapewounds would sound. I was never a fan of tapes until nofi suggested a set on my Olympia. All the bronze string squeaky stuff goes away and they have such a smooth, mellow. woody sound. You lose a bit of acoustic volume, but in your case that wouldn't matter.

Fighting feedback on stage is a problem with any ABG I've come across. I can't speak for the Godin, but if it's a hollow body{eveen a shallow one}, it's bound to feed back some. I usually play the Olympia through a GK Backline 600 that has a 10db cut button for backing the boost down that is created by the preamp on the instrument. It works great. Obviously , it cuts the volume down but if you turn the amp up to compensate the difference it is significantly less prone to feedback. It's simply backing down the boost created by feeding the preamp on the instrument into the preamp on the amplifier.
No knocking Godin, they are a fine piece of work, but if you can ever get your hands on a Tacoma it may turn you on to real acoustic playing as well as electric/acoustic. I've got to say that playing an ABG has done more for my style of " playing bass like a bass player" than anything I've ever done. Some players may not benefit as much as I did, but I think it will have an impact on any bass players technique.
Rick

Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: Chris P. on April 28, 2010, 11:15:54 AM
I think ABG are too big too play and you always need an amplifier, even when competing with acoustic guitars. I also prefer to use a Guild Starfire (sold) or lately my reissue Epi Rivoli or Ricky 4005WB.
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: nofi on April 28, 2010, 12:05:30 PM
that was mtv's brillant idea. electric basses that look acoustic. fail!
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: hieronymous on April 28, 2010, 12:52:43 PM
Quote from: nofi on April 28, 2010, 12:05:30 PM
that was mtv's brillant idea. electric basses that look acoustic. fail!

Hey, I thought that was my brilliant idea!  8)   I enjoyed playing my EB-2 with an acoustic duo that I used to sit in with...
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: nofi on April 28, 2010, 04:10:26 PM
many years ago my dad gave me a copy of the "mtv unplugged" book. surprisingly enough more people than i though used real acoustic instruments. neil young had a guy with a broom 'sweeping'  the same little spot near a mic. that's hardcore. ;)
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: Pilgrim on April 28, 2010, 04:24:29 PM
I have an Applause (Ovation) ABG which is one of the louder ones.  The trick I discovered is that the piezo pickup outputs at an impedence that's not compatible with many amps.  I got an ArtTube MP and put it between the bass and the amp, and the sound was vastly improved.  I also got one of the rubber inserts for the sound hole to reduce potential for feedback.
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: rahock on April 29, 2010, 06:10:38 AM
Quote from: Pilgrim on April 28, 2010, 04:24:29 PM
I have an Applause (Ovation) ABG which is one of the louder ones.  The trick I discovered is that the piezo pickup outputs at an impedence that's not compatible with many amps.  I got an ArtTube MP and put it between the bass and the amp, and the sound was vastly improved.  I also got one of the rubber inserts for the sound hole to reduce potential for feedback.

I'm open to any trick to minimize feedback,so thanks for the tip, but please explain what the hell is an Art Tube MP.
I suspect it is something similar to the 10db cut button on my GK amp. It does something to the signal other than just knocking the volume down 10db.
I have no idea how many amps have this feature but it works really well. Embarrsing as it is to admit, I had this amp for better than two years before I ever questioned what the hell that little button was for. I hit it before playing my passive pu Fenders and all it did was cut the volume, what a stupid feature that is I thought. Then one day I was looking at the manual and discovered what it was for :o
Rick
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: Chris P. on April 29, 2010, 07:23:38 AM
An ART Tube MP is quite a cheap (I guess under 100 dollars) tube preamp/DI which is great for homerecording. There is another brand, but I forgot.
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: Freuds_Cat on April 29, 2010, 07:28:50 AM
Avalon?
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: Chris P. on April 29, 2010, 08:33:14 AM
Avalon sure is another brand, but I meant another cheap brand ;)
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: patman on April 29, 2010, 08:48:10 AM
Used the old Guild at a rehearsal last night...actually did pretty well.

No feedback, even without a feedback buster, but I couldn't remove my hands from the strings when not playing...or they would start vibrating, when things got loud.

Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: Pilgrim on April 29, 2010, 09:12:50 AM
The ArtTube MP is a preamp made by ART Pro Audio.... website http://www.artproaudio.com .

(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/ARTTubeMP.jpg)

Here's a link to the original ART Tube MP: http://www.artproaudio.com/products.asp?type=79&cat=1&id=1 , marketed as an external mike preamp.  But it has both mic and line inputs and serves as a buffer, accepting the input from the piezo and outputting an impedence that the amps likes much better.  There are a ton of them around, and I bought mine very cheap on Ebay.

They have many later models, but this one is sufficient to serve as an impedence buffer with some potential additional benefits.

They're not bad to have around, because they could also serve as a direct box that could output to a PA mixer if your amp went down.

Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: lowend1 on April 29, 2010, 03:14:44 PM
I have two ABGs and I like them both very much, for different reasons. My Kramer Ferrington has a better acoustic tone than most - not spectacular, but very good. It also has a really comfy, fast neck. I keep it strung with old roundwounds since the tension of most flats would pull the top off this thing.
The other bass is an Ovation Celebrity CC074, and it has a nicer plugged-in tone. The neck is clubbier than the Kramer, and I have a hard case for it (missing the one for the Kramer in case anybody has...).
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: Freuds_Cat on April 29, 2010, 06:05:27 PM
I've got a copuple of these if you are after a cheap line pre.


(http://www.weissmuller.nl/images/behringer.png)

Just Behringers version of the ART I guess. They are quiet and work fine although I have changed out the tubes. Second hand you can picke them up for about $50

Like Al says, they are handy to have lying around.
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: Freuds_Cat on April 30, 2010, 06:32:19 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkEWft9ha0Y
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: rahock on May 01, 2010, 06:55:26 AM
Very Nice piece ;D Interesting choice of pick up on the ABG ???
Rick
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: nofi on May 01, 2010, 07:35:36 AM
"interesting" pick up indeed.  how to ruin a  4000 dollar taylor bass. :sad:
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: rahock on May 01, 2010, 08:47:32 AM
Quote from: nofi on May 01, 2010, 07:35:36 AM
"interesting" pick up indeed.  how to ruin a  4000 dollar taylor bass. :sad:

I've got to admit it sounded really good, but why would you want to do that ???
I know a lot of people have a problem getting a stage sound out of an ABG but there are some ways around it other than turning your ABG into a  a Fender Precision.
Rick
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: mc2NY on June 26, 2010, 09:11:47 AM
I've got three acoustic basses...one of the original Lakeland made Warwick Aliens from 1993. It was actually the first one in the USA and meant for TM Stevens, after I wrote a magazine review on it. But I liked it so much I told Warwick, "send me a bill, I'm keeping it." 32-inch medium scale.

The other 4-string is a Parker PAB40 that I recently picked up. They didn't make many of them. I was surprised that when it arrived that the body is around 20 percent smaller than my other two acoustic basses but it's still about as loud. I've been playing it a lot this week as my "go to" bass, while sitting in my living room with the TV on, just to practice...probably because it is smaller.

The 5-string is an early Dillion limited edition from around 10 years ago. A fairly inexpensive bass but I've got it playing great and the B is fairly loud and not floppy.

If I plug them in I run them through an SWR Strawberry Blonde acoustic amp. You can use a Sabine FBX solo, auto feedback eliminator if you are loud enough to have problems.

(http://home.earthlink.net/~mc2/images/AcousticThree.jpg)
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: nofi on June 26, 2010, 04:17:39 PM
nice basses. not to much abg action around here, though. now if it were a thunderbird acoustic...
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: rahock on June 28, 2010, 06:47:13 AM
Mc2ny,
That is a mighty nice looking collection of ABGs. ;D I've never come across any of those in my travels ???
Rick
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: ilan on June 28, 2010, 12:47:13 PM
Wow. Beautiful basses. Especially the Parker. And the Dillion fiver. You gave me serious ABGAS.
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: mc2NY on June 29, 2010, 05:49:05 AM
Thanks guys.

True bass players because no one has mentioned my cement gargoyle like on guitar boards :)

I actually bought the Parker because it has a 5-piece neck and have been trying to talk Ken into converting it into an 8-string (root-octave) for me.
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: Rhythm N. Bliss on July 01, 2010, 03:58:07 PM
Quote from: mc2NY on June 26, 2010, 09:11:47 AM
I've got three acoustic basses...one of the original Lakeland made Warwick Aliens from 1993. It was actually the first one in the USA and meant for TM Stevens, after I wrote a magazine review on it. But I liked it so much I told Warwick, "send me a bill, I'm keeping it." 32-inch medium scale.

The other 4-string is a Parker PAB40 that I recently picked up. They didn't make many of them. I was surprised that when it arrived that the body is around 20 percent smaller than my other two acoustic basses but it's still about as loud. I've been playing it a lot this week as my "go to" bass, while sitting in my living room with the TV on, just to practice...probably because it is smaller.

The 5-string is an early Dillion limited edition from around 10 years ago. A fairly inexpensive bass but I've got it playing great and the B is fairly loud and not floppy.

If I plug them in I run them through an SWR Strawberry Blonde acoustic amp. You can use a Sabine FBX solo, auto feedback eliminator if you are loud enough to have problems.

(http://home.earthlink.net/~mc2/images/AcousticThree.jpg)

Mighty purty basses!!!!

I have a Dean acoustic bass guitar. She's my "Anywhere, Anytime Girl". heh
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: kungfusheriff on July 03, 2010, 10:20:27 PM
Another '72 Earthwood guy here. I hunted for this bass for 10 years and am glad I held out. The acoustic volume, tone and projection is unequaled. It kicks a huge amount of ass.

That's not to say my head can't be turned. I just grabbed an old, probably pre-war German upright for short money that has me bewitched. The Earthwood is more aggressive. But the upright shakes the pictures on the walls.
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: Pilgrim on July 04, 2010, 09:56:49 AM
My lovely wife bought me an Applause AE-40 for Christmas a few years ago - came with the case!  Nice bass, one of the louder A/E basses, and short scale.  I replaced the saddle with a scaled down version using Stew-Mac saddle material and managed to drop the action quite a bit.  Installed D'Addario Chromes and it's very playable.  The original strings are still on it in this photo.  A/E basses are really handy for practicing!

(http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j306/apowell1/Electric%20Basses/Applause_Bass_WS-2_in_case-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: Sven on July 05, 2010, 10:39:16 AM
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/7623/ekobas2.jpg)

This is my Eko acoustic bass. It is almost 30 years old and still looks great, just a few dings and scratches. It was dirt cheap and came with the case, but I don't know if it's original. It's the loudest acoustic bass I've ever heard, and it's still not really loud... (and there's no electrics in it).
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: rahock on July 05, 2010, 04:34:06 PM
Hey Pilgrim,
Although I'm not familiar with the AE-40 , I've got to pass this little tidbit of information on that nofi passed on to me. I am a big fan of D'Addario Chromes and have them on both of my Precisions, but on my Tacoma/Olympia nofi told me to try a set of La'Bella tapewounds. I can't tell you what a great piece of advice that was ;D. Never before have I had a set of strings make such a major difference on an instrument :o. On an electric/ ABG they are just amazing. They smooth out the sound so much and give such a mellow , woody upright type of sound. I'm sure the Chromes go a long way in that direction too, but you really have to give the La'Bella tapes a try.
Rick
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: Freuds_Cat on July 05, 2010, 06:27:10 PM
Now that I read Al comment on practice with an acoustic I have to agree. I do a lot of personal practice with mine. I also find it great for working out lines from recordings. The last 2 songs of mine that we recorded were conceived on my Acoustic as well. Even though they are pretty loud rockers.
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: Pilgrim on July 05, 2010, 09:22:13 PM
Quote from: rahock on July 05, 2010, 04:34:06 PM
Hey Pilgrim,
Although I'm not familiar with the AE-40 , I've got to pass this little tidbit of information on that nofi passed on to me. I am a big fan of D'Addario Chromes and have them on both of my Precisions, but on my Tacoma/Olympia nofi told me to try a set of La'Bella tapewounds. I can't tell you what a great piece of advice that was ;D. Never before have I had a set of strings make such a major difference on an instrument :o. On an electric/ ABG they are just amazing. They smooth out the sound so much and give such a mellow , woody upright type of sound. I'm sure the Chromes go a long way in that direction too, but you really have to give the La'Bella tapes a try.
Rick

Labella flats are my strings of choice for all my electrics!  I am a real fan of them, and find they last just about forever.

I actually got lucky with the Chromes - they BARELY fit through the bridge on the AE-40.  If I try tapewounds they'd have to be a very light scale, or the tail end of the string wouldn't go through.  I'd need to enlarge the holes in the bridge. 

That's not a bad think to think about when replacing strings on an A/E bass - some of them have pretty small bridge holes compared to the electrics.
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: dadagoboi on July 06, 2010, 07:18:10 AM
Won a project Ibanez Destroyer X on Ebay, went to pick it up in a parking lot in Jacksonville.  The seller also had brought this, the neck had major bowage going on.  I took a wrench to it on the spot and got it fairly straight and said, "How about an extra $20?"  Done deal with a form fitting gig bag.
Finished straightening the neck and it's stayed that way for over 2 years.  With a piece of foam under the strings next to the bridge it sounds good w/or without an amp.  Long scale, 22 frets.  Strings are whatever came with it but I, too, am partial to both LaBellas and Chromes.  It's a "Grand",  Chinese of course, probably cost less than $200 new.  Binding everywhere.  Fun to play!

(http://i976.photobucket.com/albums/ae241/cata1d0/Chrome%20Soapbar/CHROMED/P1020045.jpg)
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: Pilgrim on July 06, 2010, 08:39:23 AM
That's right purty!
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: exiledarchangel on July 13, 2010, 03:27:18 PM
Cheap basses are the best! :D
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: nofi on July 14, 2010, 03:01:28 PM
labella tapes are 115-70. pretty fat.
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: TBird1958 on July 14, 2010, 03:10:16 PM


Hey now......

I got the rear end of the car thing covered  ;)

The only bass at chez Veronica that isn't a Thunderbird, my Washburn AB20 - a very fun bass!
(http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd306/veronicasteed/thunderbirds029.jpg)
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: Pilgrim on July 14, 2010, 05:31:09 PM
Cool diagonal sound holes/slots on that one!
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: rahock on July 15, 2010, 07:52:18 AM
Quote from: punchu2pieces on July 14, 2010, 03:01:28 PM
labella tapes are 115-70. pretty fat.

They are fat but it's a whole different feel than a fat metal string. They are not real high tension or stiff in any way. when you play a metal  110 E string , you instantly know you're playing a heavy guage string. When you play a tapewound 115 E string  you don't even think about the fact that it's a heavier guage string.
Of course that doesn't help if you have to start drilling and filing to make them fit. In my case, it was well worth the slight modification because I know I'll be playing on tapes for a long time ;D.
Rick
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: Dave W on July 15, 2010, 08:31:42 AM
Underneath the flat black tape is a 40-98 roundwound set. That's according to Richard Cocco, president of La Bella.
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: rahock on July 15, 2010, 02:26:37 PM
Quote from: Dave W on July 15, 2010, 08:31:42 AM
Underneath the flat black tape is a 40-98 roundwound set. That's according to Richard Cocco, president of La Bella.

That's considerably lighter than I thought :o.
Rick
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: Dave W on July 15, 2010, 08:19:19 PM
Quote from: rahock on July 15, 2010, 02:26:37 PM
That's considerably lighter than I thought :o.
Rick

It also explains why they put so little tension on the neck, considering their size. Actual string tension is based on the weight of the string. The tape adds diameter but almost no weight.
Title: Re: Acoustic Basses
Post by: rahock on July 16, 2010, 06:38:18 AM
Yep, a 98 E string is a pretty light string. I've been playing 105 E on both my P basses for a few years and they are considerably lighter than the 110s I used for several years. Just by feel, I would have guessed the string beneath that tape to be around a 102.
Rick