Of the five Gibson and Epi press releases I found for this year's Frankfurt Musikmesse, this is the only one that mentions basses: http://www.modernguitars.com/archives/004243.html:
Highlights of artist inspired models offered by Gibson USA include the Nikki Sixx Thunderbird Bass with 9-ply neck-through construction, AAA Maple wings, mirrored pickguard with Nikki's signature and Double X logo and ebony fingerboard with Red X markers. A satin black cherry finish, volume tone kill switch electronics and a Custom red snakeskin case are features exclusively designed with the legendary rocker.
System of the Down fans can view the Shavo Thunderbird Bass with an elongated headstock for tone enhancement, swamp ash wings, Custom black chrone Shamrock tuners and Satin platinum finish with a brush platinum pickguard. Shavo designed the beard logo Truss rod-cover and Custom case with his signature beard logo.
Uwe has some collecting to do!!!!
He isn't the only one ;)
Quote from: Dave W on March 12, 2008, 02:17:44 PM
System of the Down fans can view the Shavo Thunderbird Bass with an elongated headstock for tone enhancement.......
....And it also features swamp ash wings, which is considerably lighter than mahogany. What a great idea! A T-Bird with even more neck dive! :P
You can always drill the body and inlay some brass or lead weights for counterbalance. :P
You guys should all know by now that if there is ever going to be a bass that I must have, Shavo's signature Tbird is it. Probably won't be able to get it till the end of it's run because of money constraints but I still plan to purchase it.
I'd REALLY love to get one of those new Sixx models. Those just look too sweet!
My dealer is already negotiating to get them for me!
So that silver TBird we saw a while ago is the Shavo model, interesting. Swamp ash and mahogany, interesting combination. While swamp ash is generally known to be light, I'm sure there are heavy species too that would still balance a TBird nicely. Using ash on a bass is pretty much a first time for Gibson though the 20/20 claimed to have it too (but of the heavy kind).
I'm going to the fair tomorrow with my son (queuing up for a Slash autograph at the Gibson booth), Chris Decker is actually here today with a horde of Holländers and I'm meeting them tonight for dinner.
Uwe
Yes, it's definitely possible for swamp ash to be heavier than mahogany. You never know, they may be selecting pieces of similar weight. Or not.
Dinner with Chris? Excellent, but remember Basil Fawlty's advice ("don't mention the war").
"I'm going to the fair tomorrow with my son (queuing up for a Slash autograph at the Gibson booth), Chris Decker is actually here today with a horde of Holländers and I'm meeting them tonight for dinner"
Yeah, and ask him where my wedding ring is too please! :D
Chris Decker is actually here today with a horde of Holländers and I'm meeting them tonight for dinner
are you sure they're not after long lost bicycles?
Quote from: uwe on March 13, 2008, 07:14:53 AM
So that silver TBird we saw a while ago is the Shavo model, interesting.
I missed that.
Edit: I went and searched it, I will be honest that Nikki's new signature is tempting to me as well.
QuoteSystem of the Down fans can view the Shavo Thunderbird Bass with an elongated headstock for tone enhancement, swamp ash wings, Custom black chrone Shamrock tuners and Satin platinum finish with a brush platinum pickguard. Shavo designed the beard logo Truss rod-cover and Custom case with his signature beard logo.
Perfect timing for Gibson as SOAD is DOA or MIA
Quote from: Barklessdog on March 13, 2008, 11:45:45 AM
Perfect timing for Gibson as SOAD is DOA or MIA
They said they would be back sometime, they just went off to do their own things for a while.
Quote from: Barklessdog on March 13, 2008, 11:45:45 AM
Perfect timing for Gibson as SOAD is DOA or MIA
SOP for Gibson. But I think SOAD has been in suspended animation for a while now.
Quote from: Big D Bassist on March 13, 2008, 11:54:51 AM
They said they would be back sometime, they just went off to do their own things for a while.
It's too bad that they could not keep the ego's in check.
Now we just have to suffice with Queens Of The Stone Age.
Quote from: Dave W on March 13, 2008, 12:17:41 PM
SOP for Gibson. But I think SOAD has been in suspended animation for a while now.
Over a year now.
They just took some rest after that touring they did for years on end. Can you guys blame them? And swamp ash lighter than mahogany? COME ON, ever tried one of those big honkin' Peavey T-40 basses, Or the seventies Fenders or those old Ibanez Roadster basses? They all have in common that they were made from swamp ash and they all weigh a ton.
Anyway, I was in Frankfurt today and here are some of the pictures I took...
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e22/guitarman91/Frankfurt%202008/GibsonChavoThunderbird.jpg)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e22/guitarman91/Frankfurt%202008/GibsonNikkiSixxthunderbird.jpg)
Quote from: Blazer on March 13, 2008, 07:39:10 PM
...And swamp ash lighter than mahogany? COME ON, ever tried one of those big honkin' Peavey T-40 basses, Or the seventies Fenders or those old Ibanez Roadster basses? They all have in common that they were made from swamp ash and they all weigh a ton.
Those old Peaveys and Fenders were made with white (northern) ash. Not the same as swamp ash, which isn't a real species anyway. It's just a music marketing term that can cover more than one species. And a fairly recent one at that -- never saw the term used before the early 90s.
But swamp ash can be heavier than mahogany. It's just that you're much more likely to find a lightweight example of swamp ash than white ash.
Thanks for the pictures.
I have a swamp ash body 2001 Fender P. It's very light.
I think they started using the term swamp ash to get away from the "weighs a ton"-image ash had gained in the seventies. That said, a really heavy ash body has its qualities too, it gives a very clear and dense low fundamental. I've never played a light swamp ash bass to say whether they sound different, but I would expect them to sound blurrier and more middish due to less density (= less weight) of the wood. On a bass made for SOAD music, I would expect Gibson to go for heavy ash, because the real low fundamentals aren't really the strongest department in a TBird's sonic range (just play a Ripper or Victory in comparison and you'll know what I mean).
Yes, Chris and his battalion of Holländers fell into my office yesterday night (after our dinner at an Italian restaurant and copious red wine), pillaging and plundering ... no, they were well behaved and suitably in awe though Chris did wonder aloud whether some of the hardware stemmed from the bike my grandfather had stolen from his ...
Anyway, I had four talented Dutch bass players in my room taking turns at playing my basses (and would you believe they actually liked how the 20/20 sounded), slapping (yes!), chording, jazzy fretless playing what have you, quite an experience. There was a moment when everything was in danger of going pear shaped when Willem (he said it was inadvertently, let's give him the benefit of doubt :D) started to play - ::) :o ::) - Mark King's/Level 42's Lessons in Love on one of my Gibbies but after some benign admonishment ("Feuer frei!") he stopped and saw the errors of his ways ... Ardent finger players all of them, they made a conscious effort to hide as many of my picks (generally stuck underneath the strings just below the headstock on my basses) as they could - probably to incentivize my (crappy to non-existent) finger playing a bit!
It was great fun and Chris didn't take his hat off once - I still don't know what's lurking underneath there ...
Uwe
Swamp ash is different only in that it is harvest from logs that have been underwater -\\
QuoteAsh (Fraxinus americana):
We have two very different types of Ash: Northern Hard Ash and Swamp Ash (Southern Soft Ash).
Northern Hard Ash is very hard, heavy and dense. A Strat® body will normally weigh 5 lbs. and up. Its density contributes to a bright tone and a long sustain which makes it very popular. Its color is creamy, but it also tends to have heartwood featuring pink to brown tints. The grain pores are open and it takes a lot of finish to fill them up.
Swamp Ash is a prized wood for many reasons. It is a fairly light weight wood which makes it easily distinguishable from Hard Ash. A Strat® body will normally weigh under 5 lbs. Many of the 50's Fenders were made of Swamp Ash. The grain is open and the color is creamy. This wood is a very nice choice for clear finishes. Swamp Ash is our second most popular wood. It is a very musical wood offering a very nice balance of brightness and warmth with a lot of "pop".
I'm just back from a couple of days of Messe. Saw some nice things, but of course not at the Gibson stand...;) But I saw some nice new Kays, new Hagstroms, a cheap new Hofner Club Bass, new Ekos, the beautiful Gretsch Billy Bo Jupiter Thunderbird Bass.
And yes: This time we invaded this German office with a nice little collection of mahogany, magnets and wire. It was great to see Uwes collection at last! Im just back after a six hour drive, so I´ll come back to it later! But it was great the Italian waiter kept up opening new bottles of red wine, Uwe´s collection is more than nice, Uwe was a great host to us all so thanks again!!
Quote from: Barklessdog on March 14, 2008, 05:47:35 AM
Swamp ash is different only in that it is harvest from logs that have been underwater -\\
QuoteAsh (Fraxinus americana):
We have two very different types of Ash: Northern Hard Ash and Swamp Ash (Southern Soft Ash).
Northern Hard Ash is very hard, heavy and dense. A Strat® body will normally weigh 5 lbs. and up. Its density contributes to a bright tone and a long sustain which makes it very popular. Its color is creamy, but it also tends to have heartwood featuring pink to brown tints. The grain pores are open and it takes a lot of finish to fill them up.
Swamp Ash is a prized wood for many reasons. It is a fairly light weight wood which makes it easily distinguishable from Hard Ash. A Strat® body will normally weigh under 5 lbs. Many of the 50's Fenders were made of Swamp Ash. The grain is open and the color is creamy. This wood is a very nice choice for clear finishes. Swamp Ash is our second most popular wood. It is a very musical wood offering a very nice balance of brightness and warmth with a lot of "pop".
This is just Warmoth marketing BS. Fender never claimed in the 50s that any bodies were made from "swamp ash". Warmoth is just selling some softer species as "swamp ash". And there's not enough marketable wood from underwater logs to make me believe that explanation applies to what's being sold as "swamp ash."
Well I'm back from Musik Messe, my son - feverish with a cold but rock'n'roll demands sacrifices from all of us - got an autograph and a gentle smile off Herr Saul Hudson and I did see the Shavo- and the Nikkibird. They are both similar in that they just have a vol and a tone control plus a two way toggle which is probably a kill rather than a pup switch. The Nikki looks more valuable overall, no filler in the maho which gives a rustic but not cheap feel, the flamed maple looks great. The Shavo might have a slightly thicker neck at the headstock and the larger headstock (actually: more massive and wider) is an acquired taste, it looks like someone with a saw did his first attempt at the TBird headstock if you ask me. And I hazard to guess that the true reason for the larger headstock is not so much sound enhancement (headless bass makers would frown at the thought), but of more banal nature: They had to make room for the large vintage open tuners the Shavo comes with. But before you vintage purists get carried away: They are black not chrome! :D ;D :D And all you neck heaviness pansies can now stop massaging your shoulder: It's heavy ash they've used on the Shavo. Both it and the Nikkibird with the maple wings are heavier than a reg TBird would be.
No other apparent differences if you ignore cosmetics like mirror guards and flashy red XX inlays on the dark fretboard of the Nikkibird. Of course the electronics might be different, but I doubt it, pup position is the same as on regular TBirds and it's also the regular dark grey/black soapies you'll find lurking there.
Anyway, back to Musikmesse...I'm really glad Uwe, Chris and company had a chance to visit. Wish I could have been there. I would even have brought some extra picks. ;)
Oh, what the hell. I´ll sleep later!
I went to the Messe with my colleagues from the Dutch musicians magazine Musicmaker and the Dutch bass magazine De Bassist. By coincidence our office is like 25 yards from Basvarkens office. I work from home in my spare time, so I don´t speak Rob that often.
When I told Uwe I´d visit his hometown he invited us to join him at a dinner and visit his office. Of course my three bass playing colleagues and I agreed in it!
After the Messe we took a cab to this large office building where I met Uwe for the first time in real life. I hided a small camera in my hat (that's why I didn't took it off...) and I filmed all the chrome parts. The evidence now is to the Dutch warfare office and they'll compare it wth this big list of MIA bicycles.
First we went to this great Italian restaurant near the office, where the waiter kept on opening more bottles of Sicilian wine. The food was great too, BTW. After like four bottles for the five of us (and we already had some free beers at the Messe; we are Dutch guys so we like free stuff), we were confident enough to see Ze Kollektion.
Walking into the office we spotted this corner with the more metal-ish basses like V's. Explorers and RDs. Inside the office all the EBs. Birds, et cetera were standing in rows just asking to be used.
Uwe has this big, skyline overlooking, downtown office, but we were so busy with the basses, we noticed the view only after two hours or so.
We are all different players. Maarten used to be a guitar player, marten is classical trained and a jazz player, Uwe's a pick player, Willem can do everything and I am a bad finger player so we all had our different favourites. I liked the one pupped white bird and the blue non-reversed. It just fitted me like I had played it all my life. Willem liked the old stuff like the Kalamazoos, Maarten went outside with the EB6 for an hour of... I dunno? masturbating? Marten liked the doublecuts.
Uwe told us a lot about all the basses, the history, previous owners, technical stuff and we were standing in line with basses, fighting over who could use the little amp. After like three hours everybody had tried almost everything and it was just nice.
Well, that's it for now. Loes is coming in and she wants Messe stories. More to come later.
BTW: We did mention the war.
Quote from: Chris P on March 14, 2008, 10:11:35 AM
BTW: We did mention the war.
:D
Thanks for the reports, gentlemen. Both on the show and your visit.
Re the Sixx Bird: I'm not really a fan of pore filler but since Gibson has a long history of using it, it's surprising not to find it on a signature bass. Maybe he wanted it that way. Better than the badly glopped-on paint on the Blackbird.
QuoteThe Shavo might have a slightly thicker neck at the headstock and the larger headstock (actually: more massive and wider) is an acquired taste, it looks like someone with a saw did his first attempt at the TBird headstock if you ask me. And I hazard to guess that the true reason for the larger headstock is not so much sound enhancement (headless bass makers would frown at the thought), but of more banal nature: They had to make room for the large vintage open tuners the Shavo comes with.
I read an interview with him sometime ago, that he has to keep a rack of birds because he keeps breaking the headstocks off jumping around the stage. Maybe that is the reason for the beefier head stock?
QuoteRe the Sixx Bird: I'm not really a fan of pore filler but since Gibson has a long history of using it, it's surprising not to find it on a signature bass. Maybe he wanted it that way. Better than the badly glopped-on paint on the Blackbird.
They do that to get a more open & airy tone from the bass, vs pore filler, clogging all that tone, like a Chicago deep dish pizza in your arteries.
;)
Quote from: Barklessdog on March 14, 2008, 10:43:05 AM
They do that to get a more open & airy tone from the bass, vs pore filler, clogging all that tone, like a Chicago deep dish pizza in your arteries.
;)
Did you know that some guitar and violin makers used to use egg whites for pore filling or end grain sizing? Some still do.
Egg white dries harder than deep dish pizza crust. But if you really want that fat cholesterol-filled tone, you'd have to use the yolks.
Quote from: Dave W on March 13, 2008, 10:53:24 PM
Those old Peaveys and Fenders were made with white (northern) ash. Not the same as swamp ash, which isn't a real species anyway. It's just a music marketing term that can cover more than one species. And a fairly recent one at that -- never saw the term used before the early 90s.
But swamp ash can be heavier than mahogany. It's just that you're much more likely to find a lightweight example of swamp ash than white ash.
Thanks for the pictures.
Swamp ash is another name for black ash and it is generally lighter than other types. I'm 33 and I can remember my dad(a woodworker) referring to it as "swamp ash" when I was a little kid. I was just saying that it seemed odd to me to make an already neck-heavy instrument even moreso by using wood that is usually lighter than mahogany for the body
and elongating the headstock.
Not trying to start an argument. God knows I'm no tree expert. ;D
Glad to hear you had a nice time at the Messe. Wish I'd been there.
I have also read that statement about swamp ash being the part of the tree that spent its time under the waterline. Like Dave I'm sceptical but besides the weight there is a different grain pattern on swamp ash which would lead you to think it has actually lived under water. And Uwe is right about the tone. Comparing my old heavy Precision Special to my swamp ash P the bass frequensies are'nt as dense as the heavy ash. Heavy ash has a dense and well defined bottom end and a snappy clear high end while swamp ash is a bit woofier/loose in the low end and has a lot of high mids.
Quote from: Dave W on March 14, 2008, 11:32:02 AM
Did you know that some guitar and violin makers used to use egg whites for pore filling or end grain sizing? Some still do.
Egg white dries harder than deep dish pizza crust. But if you really want that fat cholesterol-filled tone, you'd have to use the yolks.
Did you see the movie "the Red Violin" ?
We all know what the real secret to good tone is. One of my favorite movies as of late.
John, no I haven't seen The Red Violin.
Matt, back 25-30 years ago when I was buying a bit of it, black ash was just known as black ash. A lot of it did grow in marshy areas and I don't doubt that it could have been called swamp ash in some places. It's definitely softer. There's more than one species in the black ash group, and someone I know in the hardwood business says that what's being called swamp ash does come from species in that group. But the USDA doesn't recognize swamp ash as another name for black ash or recognize it as a common name for any kind of ash. That's why I said it's just a marketing term.
Daniel, swamp ash looks different because it's not the same species as hard ash. I also doubt that much of it comes from the underwater portion of logs.
Anyway, we're getting far away from the Musikmesse so I'll shut up now.
I have some pics of our visit and if Uwe's alright with it. I'll post 'm soon!
Colleague Willem sent me the following:
"It wasn't me, but Marten Schulp who made a sin by playing some Level42."
And Maarten Rischen (not to be confused with Marten) mailed this:
"Hi Uwe! I am guilty.. It's my habit to stuck picks in my pocket instead of between the strings, especially when you're like a kid in a candy store (and a bull in a porcelainstore at the same time) and wanting to try this, and this, and this, and.. So in the hotel I noticed a good seven or so picks I unconsciously took from you, sorry man! :) But I used one of them at the gig in The Hague with Lawn (www.lawn.nl). And I had two wet dreams about the baritone-guitar.. man oh man.. Thanks for a unforgettable time!
Maarten"
I guess that means Sippenhaft for the whole Rischen-family? The last thing I heard about him was he went into hiding behind a rotating book cabinet in the soon to be famous Maarten Rischen House writing a diary about his sins.
Quote from: Dave W on March 14, 2008, 07:25:21 PM
Matt, back 25-30 years ago when I was buying a bit of it, black ash was just known as black ash. A lot of it did grow in marshy areas and I don't doubt that it could have been called swamp ash in some places. It's definitely softer. There's more than one species in the black ash group, and someone I know in the hardwood business says that what's being called swamp ash does come from species in that group. But the USDA doesn't recognize swamp ash as another name for black ash or recognize it as a common name for any kind of ash. That's why I said it's just a marketing term.
Cool. I learned something new today. Thanks, Dave. Sorry for veering off topic. ;D
Quote from: Chris P on March 15, 2008, 10:20:13 AM
I guess that means Sippenhaft for the whole Rischen-family? The last thing I heard about him was he went into hiding behind a rotating book cabinet in the soon to be famous Maarten Rischen House writing a diary about his sins.
Sippenhaft...now there's a term I haven't heard for years. Seems a wee bit excessive for accidentally taking someone's picks. :o
I'm looking forward to the photos.
I just assume there were'nt any bicycles to claim back so picks would do. Enough of them and you can mold yourself something like this:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/Itera_plastic_bicycle.jpg)
That's fooking ugly! It looks like 20/20 bike!!
BTW: I played the 20/20 as one of the first one at the Eagles Nest and I quite liked the sound. Much more, erm, 'normal' than I thought. Of course I forbade my colleagues to take pics of it.
Quote from: Chris P on March 15, 2008, 02:42:08 PM
That's fooking ugly! It looks like 20/20 bike!!
:D :D :D
Interesting comparison. The Itera was definitely a child of the 80s, just like the 20/20. But even Gibson knew better than to use molded plastic.
Ok, no Sippenhaft then if the pics are promptly posted!!! :D ;D And Maarten certainly did develop a romantic relationship with my EB-6 hollowbody - it was love between those two at first chord -, someone have a heart and give the man a baritone guitar for Christmas!
I'm honored by the use of one of the pics at the gig!
I thought about testing some baritones for our magazine. There are a lot nowadays. Fender, Burns, Gretsch, Danelectro, ...
Some pics by Willem and Maarten:
Marten and Maarten trying some hollowbodies:
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k165/chrispdekker/041.jpg)
Uwe and Marten:
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k165/chrispdekker/043.jpg)
Ze Gibson stool:
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k165/chrispdekker/044.jpg)
Marten:
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k165/chrispdekker/045.jpg)
Heavy Metal:
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k165/chrispdekker/046.jpg)
Ze view from ze eagles nest:
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k165/chrispdekker/047.jpg)
Uwe and his all-time favourite clownburst:
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k165/chrispdekker/051.jpg)
Uwe and a part of his little collection:
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k165/chrispdekker/057.jpg)
Me and the bass which was shouting out my name. "Der Christoph, nehme mich!'
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k165/chrispdekker/13032008497.jpg)
Marten and I:
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k165/chrispdekker/13032008498.jpg)
Uwe saving the EB6 from Maartens greasy and greedy hands:
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k165/chrispdekker/13032008502.jpg)
An overview of a little part of the collection:
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k165/chrispdekker/13032008506.jpg)
Willem and the EB-0L:
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k165/chrispdekker/13032008509.jpg)
Quote from: Chris P on March 19, 2008, 02:02:59 AM
Uwe and Marten:
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k165/chrispdekker/043.jpg)
Is it just me or is Uwe eying that zebra wood bird kind of devilishly? Or maybe it is that Blackbird he is eying.
Great pictures, its like Uwe has turned his office into a Gibson Guitar Center!
You'll show them for not carrying Gibson basses!!!
Its like an amazing candy store.
Nice organization skills Uwe. Just an amazing collection.
Thanks! It was actually great fun having all that young talent there, I always find my basses sound better with other people than they do with me!
Quote from: Big D Bassist on March 19, 2008, 02:16:48 AM
Is it just me or is Uwe eying that zebra wood bird kind of devilishly? Or maybe it is that Blackbird he is eying.
(http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k165/chrispdekker/043.jpg)
Neither! I'm smiling benevolently at some Dutch magic emitted from George Carlston's former yellowed mideighties TB II!
Uwe
those pics blow my mind! I'd never leave the office.
Quote from: uwe on March 19, 2008, 05:36:32 AM
I always find my basses sound better with other people than they do with me!
ha! same thing happens with me!
Chris, thanks so much for the photos. I can see how much fun you all were having.
But Bluebell is not a clownburst.
All I can say WoW! wish I coulda been there ;)
Great photos! And a fantastic collection too!