http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,529548,00.html
Can't wait for the National Geographic special!
I predict that this thread will run at least 5 pages - God only knows what will be included along the way :mrgreen:
Thats pretty cool
Wow, especially the part 'the building of the airplane is financed by an unknown German Lawyer' is interesting.
But: Great story!
I actually saw the special on that the other night. It ended with them saying that the war could have changed completely if they managed to put them into production considering the speed they could travel alone.
"The Ho 229 replica with period-appropriate backdrop in the Northrop Grumman hangar."
(http://www.foxnews.com/photoessay/photoessay_7555_images/0630091042_M_ho_229_ng_flags.jpg)
Period-appropriate backdrop! :mrgreen: You yanks crack me up, forever caught in visualizing Nazi Germany as if it were a scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark. As if we had nothing better to do than to decorate our aircraft production facilities with swastikas. ;D
All this "if Nazi Germany would have had this or some other secret weapon, it would have won the war"-talk is nonsense. You don't win wars with superior novelty equipment/Wunderwaffen like the above Ho 229, you win it by producing cheaply, quickly and efficiently good-enough stuff like the Sherman tank, the Mustang, the T-34, Liberty merchant ships etc, having the logistic expertise to bring them to the front AND having enough fuel and gas to run them as well as enough well-fed and medically well-treated soldiers/pilots/sailors to man them. The abundance of penicillin for Allied soldiers did more for the outcome of the war than 200 delta wing Luftwaffe jets ever could have. And even if we would have had that many plus the people and the fuel to fly them, all it would have done at best is perhaps prolong the war a few months for the US to have Little Boy and Fat Man ready in time (your nuclear program was way ahead of what German scientists had, whose heavy water research had pretty much become stuck) to drop them on Berlin. That would have ended the war (and grounded the delta wing jets) real quick.
Cool plane though! But would it have had the technical means to fly stable (an issue with delta wing jets) back in 1944/45? I'd be amazed.
Uwe
True, I thought it was the fact that the on board computer could make x many calculations per second to adjust the Stealth that kept it stable. Without which it would supposedly fall out of the sky.
I would love to have seen the IBM punchcard that ran the Ho 299 :mrgreen:
I agree with Uwe, I thinks its like if the V1's and 2's had only seen short (or no) service then people (after the fact) would be saying the same thing. "If the Nazi's had built them to fruition they would have won the war".
It obviously cant ever come down to just one thing, except maybe an A bomb when the other side has none.
marvelous plane, can't wait to see teh docu on national geographic over here. Can;t find a torrent to download it
The Russians were the true masters of high quality war machines and cheap mass production. The cold war kept the US and others from mentioning /admitting any of this.
Rick
Quote from: Big D Bassist on July 01, 2009, 02:38:36 AM
I actually saw the special on that the other night. It ended with them saying that the war could have changed completely if they managed to put them into production considering the speed they could travel alone.
According to the article (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/06/090625-hitlers-stealth-fighter-plane.html) I saw on National Geographic's website, the special premieres this coming Sunday. Did you see an advance screening?
Unlike the Fox news story, the NG article makes it sound like would not have changed the war much, and even then only until a counter could be developed.
Daa da dat daaaa, daa da daaaaa, daa da dat daaaa, daa dat da da da - "Snakes, why'd it have to be snakes...?"
That's sum Ho... ;)
Gotta go, the shed's calling... ;D
Quote from: Dave W on July 01, 2009, 08:31:22 AM
According to the article (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/06/090625-hitlers-stealth-fighter-plane.html) I saw on National Geographic's website, the special premieres this coming Sunday. Did you see an advance screening?
Unlike the Fox news story, the NG article makes it sound like would not have changed the war much, and even then only until a counter could be developed.
I watched on national geographic on Sunday I think. Thought about recording it but I came into it after it started. Interesting to watch them build it and give some history on the subject.
If Luftwaffe records are to be believed, one prototype of these actually flew in late 1944 without crashing. Who'd have thought.
Who? Goering! That is who!
Aww, some of us Yanks know that period correct backdrops would look like this:
What's the cogwheel doing there? Never seen that flag variation before. ???
Quote from: uwe on July 02, 2009, 02:58:59 AM
What's the cogwheel doing there? Never seen that flag variation before. ???
That's the rarely seen logo for Hitler's plan to dominate the music world with a master band for the master race,
Bachmann Turner Uberdrive.
Quote from: lowend1 on July 02, 2009, 05:36:30 AM
That's the rarely seen logo for Hitler's plan to dominate the music world with a master band for the master race,
Bachmann Turner Uberdrive.
Hahahahaha! Well done!
That's a cool plane in any case and I really like the color. A few years ago some filthy rich guy and 5 or 6 ME-262s built up. I think most if not all are complete with at least one of the flying. The Germans may have lost the war but they did have some cool stuff. A few years ago I got a ride in a Zundapp KS650 2wd Sidecar outfit a buddy owns. The thought of riding in that thing from Germany to Russia just to get your ass kicked is well, hard to imagine, but the motorcycle itself is freakin' terrific!
Oh yes. I remember them. "Roll on down the Autobahn" was a big hit as were "Heil you!", "Taking care of busy SS" and "Brown Collar". And that Gestapo interrogation methods song: "You ain't felt nothing yet, ja?"
"A few years ago some filthy rich guy and 5 or 6 ME-262s built up. I think most if not all are complete with at least one of the flying."
Two actually. White 1 (hopefully no Aryan connotation there!), a double seater, and Tango Tango, a single seater. Though unusual, I actually like the shilouette of White 1 better. You can still buy one of the other 3. 2 millions bucks sans the engines. Allegedly speed of sound capable, but the airframe shouldn't be tested above 600 mph. (Allegedly, one Luftwaffe pilot once broke the sound barrier with an Me 262 and lived to tell about it. Vorsprung durch Technik!)
http://www.stormbirds.com/project/index.html
Splendid pieces of work. Don't think there is much of a profit in the 2 million USD purchase price.
"Brown Collar" - hahahaha! Ever hear, "Lucy in the Sky with Messerschmitts"? That's a good one.
I always thought Mercedes Benz should make a supersport model called the "Himmler SS". :)
Quote from: uwe on July 02, 2009, 06:28:21 AM
Two actually. White 1 (hopefully no Aryan connotation there!), a double seater, and Tango Tango, a single seater. Though unusual, I actually like the shilouette of White 1 better. You can still buy one of the other 3. 2 millions bucks sans the engines. Allegedly speed of sound capable, but the airframe shouldn't be tested above 600 mph. (Allegedly, one Luftwaffe pilot once broke the sound barrier with an Me 262 and lived to tell about it. Vorsprung durch Technik!)
http://www.stormbirds.com/project/index.html
Splendid pieces of work. Don't think there is much of a profit in the 2 million USD purchase price.
Oddly, the German company for which I work has that website blocked. Now why is that? Heh. I can't imagine breaking the sound barrier one of those planes. How long do you think it took that Luftwaffe pilot to pull the seat out of his ass once he landed?
No swastikas on that website, they even explain in the FAQ link:
"None of the aircraft are presently anticipated to wear the tail Hakenkreuz (swastika). There are a number of reasons for this decision, with the most obvious being the extremely negative connotation associated with the use of this symbol by the Third Reich. In a purely historical sense, we feel that it is also worth noting that the swastika was essentially just a political symbol, and as such, of little direct relevance to the military men and machines which served in Germany's air forces."
It's nice that there are a few replica Me 262s flying around (one of them even flew at the Berlin airshow in 2006, it was shipped over). And if they are without swastikas on their tailfins, so much the better.
It's nice they also say that the swastika isn't a nazi symbol only. By coincidence I was reading about Kula Shaker again, a British band who got in lot's of trouble by saying the Swastika is a possitive symbol. And in fact it is. Isn't is something like a sun wheel, for celebrating life?
BTW: Uwe, that hangar looks exactly like your office only you have Gibson Fahne only.
Yes, the swastika has its place in other cultures and should not be tainted by Nazism. But if as a westerner you flaunt that symbol, you are asking to be misunderstood.
Quote from: uwe on July 02, 2009, 02:58:59 AM
What's the cogwheel doing there? Never seen that flag variation before. ???
Flag for a Model Factory / Musterbetriebsfahne
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v383/iamthebassman/de_mufte.gif)
Ok, thanks, don't think this ever made it into German factories. (Bit Fritz Lang/Metropolis, Nazis were not shy to use that imagery.) The promised 1.000 year rule of the Third Reich was cut short rather abruptly (and thankfully!).
There were several grades of these factory flags. The gold trim was for kick-ass production. They were flown outside the factory, and banner versions were inside the factory, kind of like the two hanging behind the flying wing. A friend of the family had snagged one, and the gold flagpole gear along with it while hearding SS units toward the warm embrace of the Soviet army (they were ordered to disarm and refuse surrender, something the SS guys figured out real quick) and for a couple of years my dad had a Flagge für Einheiten von vorbildlichen Fabriken. He auctioned it off about 20 years ago.
Quote from: uwe on July 02, 2009, 09:56:45 AM
Yes, the swastika has its place in other cultures and should not be tainted by Nazism. But if as a westerner you flaunt that symbol, you are asking to be misunderstood.
The swastika is an odd symbol. It was used in Tibet and Indian several thousand years ago and was even seen on Native American pottery and scratched in ruins which are known to be many hundreds of years old. It appeared both left-handed and right-handed and was often used as a symbol for friendship. The silly little German corporal ruined it for all. Hoser.
Quote from: uwe on July 02, 2009, 06:28:21 AM
Oh yes. I remember them. "Roll on down the Autobahn" was a big hit as were "Heil you!", "Taking care of busy SS" and "Brown Collar". And that Gestapo interrogation methods song: "You ain't felt nothing yet, ja?"
In my best Col. Klink voice ;)
"Uwe!"
Hochstetter:
Who iz ziss man?!!!!!
Again.............
"Let me assure you..........."
;)
Quote from: uwe on July 02, 2009, 06:28:21 AM
Oh yes. I remember them. "Roll on down the Autobahn" was a big hit as were "Heil you!", "Taking care of busy SS" and "Brown Collar". And that Gestapo interrogation methods song: "You ain't felt nothing yet, ja?"
You forgot "Fuhrer Wheel Drive" and "Nicht Fragile"
I willnever listen to BTO the same again ;D
Quote from: Freuds_Cat on July 02, 2009, 06:49:06 PM
I willnever listen to BTO the same again ;D
Now called BTU, the hottest band out of der Fatherland!
Quote from: lowend1 on July 02, 2009, 05:04:54 PM
You forgot "Fuhrer Wheel Drive" and "Nicht Fragile"
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
But "Führer will drive" is historically incorrect. The Führer, for all his love of technology, was ironically without a "Führerschein" (German for driver's license), hence this little poem here:
"
Der Führer war ein armes Schwein
Er hatte keinen Führerschein!"It translates freely;
"The Führer was a poor old sod
He couldn't drive, he had to trod!"
And you know why he lost against Churchill? Well, in the old Rock-Paper-Scissors game, scissors cut paper, scissors win!
(http://edde.beket.nl/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/scissors-beat-paper.jpg)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PheZEf_Kj8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA6p-hVCjQQ
EDIT: just enter the URL, not the embed code.
(http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu280/kjrstewart/Humour/Nuremburg1.jpg)
love it everytime the way some topics explode in all directions
Quote from: Saf on July 03, 2009, 06:04:41 PM
love it everytime the way some topics explode in all directions
Yeah, threads around here are like a NASCAR race - you watch everybody go round and round for awhile, but ultimately somebody gets a little loose and the next thing you know the whole field is spinning around, crashing into one another and spitting parts all over the track.
Sometimes it happens on the first lap.
Quote from: lowend1 on July 03, 2009, 06:16:43 PM
Yeah, threads around here are like a NASCAR race - you watch everybody go round and round for awhile, but ultimately somebody gets a little loose and the next thing you know the whole field is spinning around, crashing into one another and spitting parts all over the track.
Sometimes it happens on the first lap.
+1
Bueller???
Bueller???
"ultimately somebody gets a little loose"
You guys say the nicest things.
;)
Quote from: TBird1958 on July 04, 2009, 10:50:16 AM
"ultimately somebody gets a little loose"
You guys say the nicest things.
;)
It's a racing term, Mark. And not
drag racing, either. ;D
Quote from: lowend1 on July 04, 2009, 01:29:51 PM
It's a racing term, Mark. And not drag racing, either. ;D
True!
But really compared to a certain*other* subject that comes up around here with startling regularity......... ;)
Quite right, with anal things, if they don't happen regularly, I get constipatingly alarmed!
Showing your age a little there Uwe, or......maybe not?
Thankfully not. It's not a daily routine with me, but then it never has been even as a child (which is why I collect basses as an adult!). Whatever comes out, comes out when it needs to. You never know when the next famine might strike! ; - )
ah... the carnivore-condition... beware of the strain of work getting to you
Perhaps a new brand of Bass will ease this condition, Uwe...
The Hameroid... :o
A good Colon/Rectal specialsit can help the "loose" thing and the "movement" issue. :mrgreen:
In keeping with racing and automotive vein you could call the correction of the "loose" problem - a RETREAD! :rimshot:
Get it? Good for next for the next 20,000 miles...... ???
And Ken, let's not get preachy with the veggie diet - the "miracle colon cleanser" guy on the radio here says that vegetarians are just as likely to be backed up as flesh eaters and he's an EXPERT :P :P
A regular enema does wonders here.........................
And yes, I'm the voice of experience ;)
Keep your friends close, and your enemas closer. -- Sun-tzu
:o T M I :o
Geez, couldn't just say that you eat Special K fiber bars or something? ;D
Quote from: Lightyear on July 05, 2009, 02:28:23 PM
:o T M I :o
Geez, couldn't just say that you eat Special K fiber bars or something? ;D
http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/colon-blow/229046/
No preaching here Buzz, not my style ;D ... my best bud is as carnivoristic as I'm veggie... he'll eat anything that ain't crawling too fast...
He's been trying to restore me "to the fold" for years... keeps assuring me that Chicken and beef must be veggie, after all "they only eat corn and grass, so they must be ok for veggies..." ;)
... and I know all about "blockages" in the system... :sad:
What was that quote by Frank Z to Roy Estrada...? "Wannawannawanna-enema... ennnnnnema..." Uncle Frank took music to all sorts of places others would just not imagine, and let's not forget "The Illinois Enema Bandit"... :o
Hmm... how far have we strayed this time boys and girls...? ;)
Quote from: Dave W on July 05, 2009, 11:32:43 AM
Keep your friends close, and your enemas closer. -- Sun-tzu
"We're in enema territory" :rolleyes:
Quote from: Kenny Five-O on July 05, 2009, 04:32:57 PM
No preaching here Buzz, not my style ;D ... /quote]
Shirley, you got my jest ;) ;D
Do you guys like to go to...gladiator movies?
US recreates excremental Nazi warplane?
Al & Buzz... I'm Sparticus...! and stop calling me Shirley... ;)
Uwe... what was that old Motorhead song...? "It's a bummer, it's a bummer..."
Been doing more work down the shed... feeling a bit flushed...
Quote from: Pilgrim on July 05, 2009, 10:16:28 PM
Do you guys like to go to...gladiator movies?
Now you've done it! ;D Now, Mark's going to have pick up some Galdiator garb - leather skirt with bronze plates, funny helmet with feathers.... ;) I mean if Rome wasn't decadent nothing is
Who let Russell Crowe in here, and stop pointing that sword in my direction, now...!
Mark Anthony...? more Cleopatra than Anthony... ;D
Much as I like the brunt of Ridley Scott's work, Gladiator was a plain dumb movie. One idea spread thin over - seemingly endless - hours. I remember seeing it in London at the Trocadero at a painful volume thinking to myself: Will anything, please anything happen in this movie that is not forseeable? With one of the most typecast villains (making the Alien monster seem a balanced personality in comparison). It wasn't enough that he was evil, he had to be a coward too, a slayer of his father and screwing his sister. Most likely, he didn't wash hands regularly either. :rolleyes:
The "D-Day landing in sandals" beginning was historically inaccurate btw. Once the Romans left the open field and could not use their fancy pants tactics and superior yet bulky military equipment anymore, we beat the crap out of them in the German woods. That is the reason why the Roman Empire never stretched any farther than South Germany.
Troy was horrible too. Sword and sandals films should stay relegated to those sixties Italian film studios most of them came from. With Claudia Cardinale starring.
Caligula was kind of ok though. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Quote from: uwe on July 07, 2009, 02:45:01 AM
Caligula was kind of ok though. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
I dunno Uwe, your above descriptions plus a stack of romping debauchery and the review would cover it seamlessly. 8)
Yeah, you're right. My ardent admiration of Malcolm McDowell's Clockwork Orange performance led me astray. Caligula was crap/trash too. Horrible interior studio filming too, kind of Task Force Police in ancient Rome!
I guess that leaves Kubrick's Spartacus as one of the few decent sword & sandals films.
I would have to agree with you in full.
I have ugly toes............no sandals for this girl :-\
This is something that can be cured and high heels fitting your size will then be less of an issue too ...
(http://hlperson.com/mt/archives/bound%20foot.jpg)
Uwe's been reading Chinese foot fetish magaziness again...
:puke:
Quote from: uwe on July 07, 2009, 11:18:18 AM
This is something that can be cured and high heels fitting your size will then be less of an issue too ...
(http://hlperson.com/mt/archives/bound%20foot.jpg)
What the heck is tht from?
My wife has shoes like that (but not feet)
Chinese/Japanese bound feet, at a guess...?
Ridley Scott... "I've seen things you people would not believe..."
Quote from: Lightyear on June 30, 2009, 10:36:22 PM
Can't wait for the National Geographic special!
I predict that this thread will run at least 5 pages - God only knows what will be included along the way :mrgreen:
Quite an accurate prediction. (from the second post in this thread)
How did we let this happen to us? ??? ??? ??? :rolleyes:
Going back to the original topic, did anyone see the special?
Special? About bound Chinese feet?
:mrgreen:
Didn't the Flying Tigers liberate China from feet binding?
Quote from: Big D Bassist on July 09, 2009, 08:25:19 AM
Going back to the original topic, did anyone see the special?
Wait, I thought you saw it.
He did say he saw it. But that was on the 1st and it was supposed to air on the 5th. Time-tripping maybe?
No, I looked after he said that, even though it said it was premiering on the 5th it was actually first shown a week before, at least on some stations.
Uwe... leave the Doc's binding out of this... ;D
I did indeed see it, in HD too. I was just wondering if anyone else saw it?
With all the interest here in warplanes, you would think at least one other person saw it. Maybe not.
Well there is a whole page on nationalgeographic.com (http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/episode/hitler-s-stealth-fighter-3942/Videos/06845_00#tab-Videos/06845_00) devoted to Hitler's Stealth Fighter if anyone wants to have a look.
How the hell was I to see it?!!!
Nice link Big D... thanks...
I think it wasn't on telly in Holland, but I do watch everything WWII on Discovery or NG.
Now that they are all hip and calling themselves NAT-GEO, I forget to watch.
I should have some pictures of the stealth plane for you a little later. I just got to the air and space museum in San Diego to see the Da Vinci experience and I noticed a sign saying that the model created is here so I plan to get some pictures.
I am a little disappointed that it was suspended above making it the floor. Also, sorry about the quality of the pictures. About 30 min into the drive yesterday, we remembered about the camera but figured we would not need it. At the time, we did not know that the Horton 229 would be there or that there would be a Da Vinci area, which was pretty neat actually, so I had to use my iPhone.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/Dr_Mayhem/IMG_0339.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/Dr_Mayhem/IMG_0337.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/Dr_Mayhem/IMG_0338.jpg)
4 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/Dr_Mayhem/IMG_0340.jpg)
5 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/Dr_Mayhem/IMG_0341.jpg)
6 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/Dr_Mayhem/IMG_0343.jpg)
7 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/Dr_Mayhem/IMG_0344.jpg)
8 (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/Dr_Mayhem/IMG_0345.jpg)
That's great, thanks, wraps up this thread nicely.