My old Epiphone Embassy is about due for a finish - after languishing in its case for the last decade or so.
Its currently stripped bare but complete - everything is there and in very good condition.
My question is - has anyone seen Embassies in some of the custom colors that Epiphone used on their Newport basses, Coronets, Wilshires, etc - because the base sure would be cool in something like Sunset Yellow or Orange or Metallic Green !! But I'd like to also do it in something that's historically accurate.
Anyone have pics - distant memories - Tom Petersson of Cheap Trick had a yellow one a few years ago, but I was told by his guitar tech that they weren't sure if it was a refin or not.
Krishna
Here's my famous story....
When I was first learning to play, the local music store had two basses. One was $100, the other was $135. I couldn't afford the "expensive" one. I went with the cheaper Vox Mark IV. Horrible bass, but I learned on it.
15 or so basses later, I found a bass I loved. It was the Epiphone Embassy that used to be Tom Petersson's, AND also Jon Brandt.
The expensive bass I passed up? It was a green Epiphone Embassy. I've never seen one since. Newports, yes, but never an Embassy.
I have seen Blue & green Newports, but not Embassies
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/Fenderbird/newport.jpg)
If I remember correctly Cashs' bass player used a black Embassy at Folsom prison ( although I'm sure Epi didn't list that as an option ) not sure if Epi did it for him or he had it refinished for the " man in black " vibe.
Jules site has a catologue showing three custom colors a blue ( not pelham ) a yellow and coral, hard to tell from the scan if the Embassy shown is coral or cherry red. I believe " silver fox " green over a silver/gray filled mahog was an original color beside the much more common cherry. I think Peterssons' looked like TV yellow.
I havn't decided a color for my Embassy ( off-again on-again ) project.
Scott
We just debated the Johnny Cash bass - it was definitely a Newport.
Tom Petersson brought this one out for the 25th Anniversary shows
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b170/gweimer/TomPeterssonEpi.jpg)
Yeah thats the one I saw Petersson playing - a few years ago at Avalon in Boston - and his tech at the time said they were trying to figure out if it was a refin or not.
Sounds like the yellow was an option - believe the color was called Sunset Yellow in the Epi catalogs circa 1966.
Does it really matter if the Embassy came in seafoam green or not? We're talking about a refin here, it will not be an original fin no matter what you do, but using a fin we know from Newports on an Embassy is certainly period correct and catches the vibe. And it looks better than the cherry, the Epi Newport's and Embassy's very much "modern sixties" look just goes better with a classic car color from that time rather than the cherry which will forever be identified with Gibson.
No one here (or anywhere else) will be able to rule out that a seafoam green Embassy escaped Kalamazoo, with the hundreds or more that were built it would be extremely unlikely given that the bodies of Embassies and Newports were identical and you see seafoam green Newports galore.
Uwe
I would think that Pelham Blue would be a color the Embassy would have been available in, but I'm not sure. P-Blue was a hugely popular Gibson/Epiphone color in the 60's. I remember seeing an Inverness Green one a long time ago but no other colors except cherry.
Quote from: gweimer on February 25, 2008, 08:52:25 PM
We just debated the Johnny Cash bass - it was definitely a Newport
That's right, but it was
Black!
I'm with Uwe on this one ??? :D any of the Gibby custom colors would work and
could have ! As is the only colors I've ever seen one in ( besides Uwes' Charcoal Frost ) are cherry and silver fox. Tonys' ( Overdriven66 ) suggestion of Pelham blue would look outstaning IMHO.
S.
I'm with Uwe too. Do what you like.
These are the custom colours originally offered. I've never seen one that I was certain was original though.
Reminds me of those colours they put on the SG reissue. You can see the other Epiphone catalogues I have here http://www.vintageguitars.org.uk/catalogues.php#epiphone (http://www.vintageguitars.org.uk/catalogues.php#epiphone)
(http://www.vintageguitars.org.uk/graphics/epiphone64p5.jpg)
But that can't be right for all the years of production, Jules, because we've all seen those many seafoam green Newports and if this catalogue was believed then they were never available in anything but coral, pelham blue and that buttery color. ??? ???
Pelham Blue + aged yellowed clear coating = green?
I'm with Chris P - they aren't seafoam green, like a Fender seafoam where the original pigment was an aqua color. The ones that appear metalic green are probably the blue where the topcoats have yellowed out (either naturally or "speeded up" by reacting to the auto paint under it) which causes them to go green. The Blue was - I suspect - a mixed metallic, as opposed to the Sparkling Burgundy of EB2/ES335/Trini Lopez fame. That was regular old SG Cherry sprayed over an opaque silver base. In short I would bet a couple of rubles that the two Newports (the green and blue) in Barkless Dog's wall of wonder photo - started life as the same blue color, or really close. This blue turning to green phenomenon is fairly well known in Fender circles, as well as instances where two of the same color (say Lake Placid Blue for instance) have reacted over time differently - one being almost the same as when new and one changing so much that you would never believe they were the same. Why that happens is hard to call - it could be storage or it could be chemical. It could be the chemical happened right off the bat in the factory, and they sent them out anyway. Which sounds like something Gibson would do as a lot of the color coats were to sell seconds as first grade. Sometimes hidden areas - in control routs or under guards or parts - don't change, but sometimes they do. So, again, I would venture - and maybe some of our reranch and vintage Fender friends could bear this out - the many green Epi and Gibson basses actually started life 40 odd years ago as blue.
To re-iterate - the green Embassy I saw was back about 1970, so it was only a few years old then. I have to think that it was the Inverness Green that was offered. Why it was in the music store by me is interesting. This was a little music store that was mostly doing lessons and sheet music. There were a whole 2 basses in the whole store.
I used to think my now green Newport was formerly pelham blue. But then I began to doubt my assumption because even parts that were never exposed to sunlight were of the same shade of metallic green. The green is perfectly even everywhere. Still, it might be an explanation of what became of all those pelham blue Newports over the decades.
Uwe
Like EB2 says: It could be a chemical thing instead of sunlight? That would explain the yellowing of every part of the body. I'm no expert so I'm just guessing too.
I have a lot of guitar books. One of them is called The ^0s Guitar Book or so, edited buy Tony Bacon I guess. Or Paul Day. One of those gurus. In it a blue-turned-to-green SG.
Inverness Green and aged Pelham Blue don't look anything like Fender's Seafoam Green to my eyes.
They don't. Inverness Green and Pelham Blue are both metallic though, so they could look like Fender LP blue. That turns green a lot, like the Pelham Blue, and when it goes green you are hard pressed to see it as something that started blue. Calling it seafoam is not accurate, but calling it "aqua" would be better.
Fender seafoam is a regular opaque color, and I don't think Gibson ever offered anything like it. The closest they got was the Kalamazoo baby blue, which is not green at all. But if you top-coated it with a tinted yellow it would get seafoam-y pretty quick.
Very Fender-ish, I know, but the custom color stuff really is their baby.
Quote from: eb2 on February 28, 2008, 01:11:20 PM
Fender seafoam is a regular opaque color, and I don't think Gibson ever offered anything like it. The closest they got was the Kalamazoo baby blue, which is not green at all.
In addition to that frost blue color, I've also seen "kerry green" - which looked kinda like Fender's surf green (opaque, non-metallic - but lighter hue than seafoam).
(http://www.vintageguitars.org.uk/graphics/late6TsGibsonColours.jpg)
I think the Embassy would look good in a number of these colors. I like that Sunset Yellow too. There was one on Ebay a while back (a project Newport? if I recall) that had a color like that in all of its creases and cavities. Not sure if it was orginal, but I wouldn't be too hung up on that.
The one on Ebay was from a theater group that had mangled it as a prop to make it look like a work in progress. Even the guy that was selling was appalled. :o
Quote from: chromium on February 28, 2008, 01:32:51 PM
In addition to that frost blue color, I've also seen "kerry green" - which looked kinda like Fender's surf green (opaque, non-metallic - but lighter hue than seafoam).
(http://www.vintageguitars.org.uk/graphics/late6TsGibsonColours.jpg)
I think the Embassy would look good in a number of these colors. I like that Sunset Yellow too. There was one on Ebay a while back (a project Newport? if I recall) that had a color like that in all of its creases and cavities. Not sure if it was orginal, but I wouldn't be too hung up on that.
Hey Joe - actually the Kerry Green is a weird color - the Firebird below is Kerry Green - its mine and is missing most of the topcoat because I had to wet sand a mural off of it back about 12 years ago when I got it (in a pawn shop .. for $425 ...).
I know everyone is going to say "thats not green - its blue" - but the Gibson equivalent of Fender's Sonic Blue was Frost Blue, which has a much colder grey-blue hue to it than Fender's color - and no yellow tint to it at all. You're correct that Gibson's Kerry Green is closest to Fender's Surf Green, though Gibson's color has more blue in it than Fender's color.
If I had a Frost Blue Firebird I'd put em side by side, but the supply of cheap custom color Gibsons seems to have dried up ... ;D
Back to the Epiphone colors - I think they may have had their own entire "palate" of colors - there is no gibson equivalent to the Sunset Yellow - which is a crazy bright opaque yellow nor to the Coral color - which is more of what I'd call a "76 Ball Orange" (like the gasoline company). I've seen Epi guitars in person in both those colors and they are intensely bright. But then again - I bet for $25 Gibson would grab a spraygun from the Gibson side of the spray shop and spray an Epi whatever you wanted.
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/smogmonsterusa/Gibson%20Firebird%20Kerry%20Green/gib_trem1.jpg)
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/smogmonsterusa/Gibson%20Firebird%20Kerry%20Green/bluebird_in_case.jpg)
Interesting...that does look like a greened-out sonic blue.
Nice NR. I bet that's worth some money now.
I know this is an old thread, but I found a pic of Tom Petersson that shows off the color of his Embassy a little better (less colored lighting).
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/gcarlston/dudepit/TPwithEmbassy.jpg)
Also, here are a few NRs in different colors:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/gcarlston/dudepit/65thunderbirds.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/gcarlston/dudepit/60s_Gibson_color_chart.jpg)
I know the chart was already posted, but this bigger one gives some nice detail.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/gcarlston/Thunderbirds/68goldNRIIbody.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/gcarlston/Thunderbirds/68goldNRIIandagreenone.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/gcarlston/Thunderbirds/redbird.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/gcarlston/Thunderbirds/TBIVsilverbodycopy.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/gcarlston/Thunderbirds/67IVinfrostblue.jpg) (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v47/gcarlston/Thunderbirds/67PelhamII.jpg)
I know some of these aren't original colors, but they're still pretty cool.