I guess we all know about it, the kind of Bass guitar that will have you branded less of a player if you appear on stage with it. And it's not just the budget brands like Squier and Epiphone that carry that stigma.
So let's debate and have a laugh about the kind of Basses that people think to be daft and why it is that way.
First up, the brand which probably has the worst reputation. Warwick
(http://www.bassexchange.com/catalog/images/WarwickThumb5.jpg)
Nevermind the fact that John Entwistle, Jack Bruce, Prince, Stuart Zender and Doug Wimbish all have used Warwick basses for years to good effect. The general consensus about Warwick basses is that they're the most daft of all basses around. So why is it that way?
Well here's why... (Uwe, I'm sorry but it has to be done.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zMltBM6aek
Münchner Freiheit "Es gibt kein nächstes mal"
This band is but one of many Euro-trash bands who appeared in the eighties playing sweet bubblegum pop music and brandishing Warwick basses. From 1985 onwards, bands from central europe turned into hit machines playing this sugar coated silky smooth produced crap and in every single one, the bassplayer was always seen with a Warwick in either the music video or TV performance. All of those bands appeared on stage with Warwicks thus cementing the comapny's stigma of producing daft basses, all those crappy bubblegum pop bands were using them.
Slipknot player Paul Gray used Warwicks for years before becoming an Ibanez endorser but it doesn't really help matters because by then the damage has already been done. Warwick jumped the shark by becoming the bass of choice for many crappy Euro-trash pop band in the mid eighties.
i don't think any bass is too "daft " to be played. it is the player after all. i hate it when image trumps content. ;)
Warwicks make me think of bad 90's "Nu Metal". they are built well,but ugly.
Quote from: SKATE RAT on September 27, 2008, 07:47:02 PM
Warwicks make me think of bad 90's "Nu Metal". they are built well,but ugly.
Really? Apart from Limp Bizkit's Sam Rivers and slipknot's Paul Gray I can't think of anybody else from those Nu-metal bands that played Warwick, it was all Ibanez Soundgears and ATK's that ruled the roost.
(http://data.muzikus.cz/save/db_images/3892)
Paul Gray playing a Warwick Streamer.
p nut
hey i'm no expert on "nu metal" but thats what they remind me of
Quote from: nofi on September 27, 2008, 05:42:50 PM
i don't think any bass is too "daft " to be played. it is the player after all. i hate it when image trumps content. ;)
I've seen/heard many guitar and bass players sounding absolutely fantastic ,on what I would consider, absolute crap instruments. If it works alright for the player......then I guess it works alright ;)
Rick
I always hated basses like Warwicks, but now I got used to them I think. I like some models like the Buzzard and Stryker. Some other models aren't entirely my cup of tea, but I see those basses are very wel made with a lot of craftmanship.
I have some contact with Warwick for the magazine I write for. Owner/founder hans-Peter Wilfer is a great guy! He always answers mails within ten minutes. And not only my mails, but from everyone who mails, according to guys at the Warwick forum. I love that. Reminds me a bit of the Hall-guy of Rickenbacker.
To compare Warwick to a company where I buy basses:
Gibson Holland is no longer a private owned company, but a Gibson-owned company (if I'm right) for Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg. I mailed them some times between March and now and I tried to phone them. No reaction yet in seven (!) months!!
I played a white Warwick at Century Music down in San Antonio a few years back when I lived there that I could've grown to love. My problem is, with the exception of that one bass, I've never played a Warwick that was set up worth a shit.
I could be missing out! :mrgreen:
On the old Dudepit we reveled in our disdain for these basses but like Thunderbirds not too many people had actually played one. Didn't really matter I guess, everyone just used them as a running joke.
There was one Warwick that was at Century for 2 or 3 years that was really nice, way above my price range though.
A good bit of the talk about Warwick at the old Pit was just in fun, but a few guys were serious about hating Warwick just because they saw a few younger bands using them. You know, they sounded like cranky old men from my parents' generation talking about young whippersnappers and their new fangled rock and roll music. :)
I dont have a problem with Warwicks. Like most Fenders and Gibsons I've played in shops, the ones that are setup well play fine and the ones that aint...generaly suck.
The Warwicks I've played had funky neck profiles. They didn't feel completely round, but rather almost three sided.
I remember a full page ad in some bass magazine with a bunch of Nu Metal guys in it.
The Warwick Thumb neck-thru was the first bass in about 20 years that turned my head. The neck did feel a little odd, but after 20 years of playing an Epiphone Embassy, I should have expected that. Nearly all the other Warwick basses I tried just seemed to come up short.
mimi at the old bunnybass forum had a fondness for warwicks. maybe it had something to do with that pornographic upper horn. ;)
it does have that kink of phallic look about it doesn't it?
Let's face it, anything that's too far away from the classic shapes will get a negative reaction from some people based on looks alone. Steinbergers, Warwicks, MM Bongos and the like. And I really can't blame them. You like what you like, you want an instrument that pleases you to look at, and if it doesn't, the discussion is over.
In my case, I think those single cut basses with the huge mutant upper bouts are just hideously ugly. You could try to convince me that one of them sounds great, and you might be right, but you'd have to pay me to take it.
I can't get past the looks of some of the single cuts I've seen out there either. Sometimes those upper bouts are just way out of control. I've seen a couple that looked nice, but they just aren't for me. I'll stick with my LP for a single cut.
Quote from: Freuds_Cat on September 29, 2008, 05:35:40 PM
it does have that kink of phallic look about it doesn't it?
Well, not all of them do...
(http://www.chrisguitars.com/warwick-thumb-neckthru.jpg)
Warwick Thumb
(http://beat.com.ua/images/Vampyre-LTD.jpg)
Warwick Vampyre
(http://www.snacp.com/product/2007559313632370.jpg)
Warwick Buzzard
(http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/shop_image/product/84584495d7f9313227b5f057a1dff2fa.jpg)
Warwick Streamer
(http://www.pulseonline.com/warwick/FNAJazzman4.jpg)
Warwick corvette
(http://www.warwickbass.com/images/HellborgSignatureBass.jpg)
Warwick Hellborg
(http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/shop_image/product/1e8598b75d696c04552ae468c70347aa.jpg)
Warwick Infinity
(http://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/shop_image/product/76e21479bf077b6442dbfef97994259f.jpg)
Warwick Dolphin
(http://www.warwickbass.com/images/Stryker_2.jpg)
Warwick Stryker
(http://www.warwickbass.com/images/StarBassII_1.jpg)
Warwick star bass
(http://www.warwickbass.com/images/Alien_1.jpg)
Warwick Alien.
This is their entire current model catalog, as you can see not all of them are phallic looking.
I like the more classic looking models most: The Stryker, Buzzard, Star Bass and Hellborg.
I need a Buzzard once and if I'll ever have one a Stryker could be nice, cos it's more affordable than an Alembic Explorer model.
I am not aware of any bad reputation for Warwick...
I've always thought they're ugly. But still well built and good sounding basses.
Neither are I really aware of any real bad reputation for Squier or Epiphone.
Of course some people will always think you couldn't afford a "real" Fender if you use a Squier bass. But are Squiers really that bad? Don't think so.
Same with Epiphone. Epiphone makes some fine basses. And not just cheap kock off Gibsons. The JCS and the Allen Woody Rumblekat are great. You will not be looked down upon with these basses as if you couldn't afford a "real" Gibson.
The Epi Thunderbirds are great too. A bit different from their Gibson originals, but absolutely not a bad instrument.
I think guitars is a different story maybe. I've played some Epiphone Les Paul guitars that weren't too good.
Nothing you couldn't fix with putting some good pickups and decent pots in, though.
Regarding the Stryker, I seem to have a real issue seeing Fender style pups on this style of bass. Just looks wrong to me. Surely Soap bars or Thunderbird pluss pups would make it look a whole lot better?
I've seen some awful Korean Epiphones from the 80s and 90s, terrible workmanship, loose frets, routing and drilling off-kilter, etc. It's been much better in the past few years.
I've seen so many Squiers with bad necks I would never buy one, even from the better series.
YMMV, of course.
From my experience the older and not very well made Korean Epi's seem to mostly be the Samick ones. Serial numbers starting with "S".
My 2 Epi's are both "U" Unsung. And the EB's and a few others I've tried with that designation seem like pretty good instruments to me.
My Epi Tbird (a "U" model) is a great instrument, haven't find some bad craftmanship on it. Sounds good too! ;D
The bad ones I've seen may have been made by Samick, I just don't know. Even if they were, Samick's quality now is much better than in the early to mid 90s.
Over on basschat.co.uk there's a large Warwick fanbase, as well as a fair Ibanez following. But they're young, maybe they'll grow out of it? ;D ;D ;D
My sense gigging in pubs is that the Fender bass is very familiar to audiences, so they assume you know what you're doing. With anything else, you kind of have to prove yourself.
Quote from: PhilT on October 01, 2008, 09:14:16 AM
Over on basschat.co.uk there's a large Warwick fanbase, as well as a fair Ibanez following. But they're young, maybe they'll grow out of it? ;D ;D ;D
My sense gigging in pubs is that the Fender bass is very familiar to audiences, so they assume you know what you're doing. With anything else, you kind of have to prove yourself.
With the exception of a T-Bird right? :mrgreen: (/me goes fishing for a grand upswell in T-bird support here)
What kind of shallow silliness associates a particular brand of bass with a style of music? Pointy shred-shaped Jacksons et. al., maybe, but but Warwick? Having never paid attention to anything metal at all excpet a bit of Metallica and Ozzy, I think of Jack Bruce when I think of Warwick. And the guy who used to play for Shania Twain, and some British neo-funk kind of band (Jamaroqui maybe?).
No, basses with "bad reputations" to me would be like Gibson's long-scale EB-3, most Peavey basses. Those instrumens are good, but they have a reputation for not being good. OK, the Peavey T-40 weighed a ton and was an oversized gutiar isntead of a bass design. But the original Fury, Foundations, the great Jeff Berlin Palladium, and the Cirrus basses are very good basses. So were the RJ-4, the Dyna Bass, and the Unity Series basses.
But they ain't hip, some of them didn't look very attractive, and the "Peavey" name on them made/makes people dismiss them for reasons other than their sound, utility, quality of construction, etc.
jte
Quote from: JTE on October 02, 2008, 09:27:41 AM
What kind of shallow silliness associates a particular brand of bass with a style of music? Pointy shred-shaped Jacksons et. al., maybe
Carol Kaye plays old school jazz on a pointy Ibanez guitar.
Quote from: ilan on October 02, 2008, 10:43:12 AM
Carol Kaye plays old school jazz on a pointy Ibanez guitar.
And last I heard she was playing a (non-pointy) neck-thru Ibanez bass.
Quote from: JTE on October 02, 2008, 09:27:41 AM
What kind of shallow silliness associates a particular brand of bass with a style of music? Pointy shred-shaped Jacksons et. al., maybe, but but Warwick? Having never paid attention to anything metal at all excpet a bit of Metallica and Ozzy, I think of Jack Bruce when I think of Warwick. And the guy who used to play for Shania Twain, and some British neo-funk kind of band (Jamaroqui maybe?).
No, basses with "bad reputations" to me would be like Gibson's long-scale EB-3, most Peavey basses. Those instrumens are good, but they have a reputation for not being good. OK, the Peavey T-40 weighed a ton and was an oversized gutiar isntead of a bass design. But the original Fury, Foundations, the great Jeff Berlin Palladium, and the Cirrus basses are very good basses. So were the RJ-4, the Dyna Bass, and the Unity Series basses.
But they ain't hip, some of them didn't look very attractive, and the "Peavey" name on them made/makes people dismiss them for reasons other than their sound, utility, quality of construction, etc.
jte
I pretty much agree with you jte, BUT!
I just cant imagine Phil Lesh playing this
(http://www.themusicfarm.com/pics/rzrvbcbkgrn_full.jpg)
Mind you, I cant imagine Uwe in spandex either and its his so................ (http://www.guitargear.net.au/discussion/Smileys/default/metalhead.gif) (http://www.guitargear.net.au/discussion/Smileys/default/rock.gif)
That Dean bass looks so good I almost don't care how it sounds. It's like something a superhero would play.
(we need an emoticon for "I'm serious")
It's like something a superhero would play.
then it's perfect for Uwe! ;D
;D
At the moment I'm reviewing a Eastwood Airline Bass. It isn't that well sounding, it's hard to play with four volume/tone controls right above the pick ups, but what the f*Ck. It's just a great and mean looking bass!!!!
Quote from: Chris P on October 03, 2008, 09:09:52 AM
;D
At the moment I'm reviewing a Eastwood Airline Bass. It isn't that well sounding, it's hard to play with four volume/tone controls right above the pick ups, but what the f*Ck. It's just a great and mean looking bass!!!!
You probably need to put some flatwounds on it, to really get the MOJO of such a bass going. Short scale basses with that typical rubbery feel work the best with flatwounds.
Hmmm... I miss some clarity, which will be even worse with flatwounds I guess.
I posted this a while ago in another thread: I used flatwouds on my T-bird and the tone just died (Ask Basvarken), I used a flatwound P with flatwounds which was okay, but not that great.
A while ago I changed the strings of my Shadows Bass to normal roundwounds, while Burns UK advices to use flats. Man! That bass came to live immediately!! What a bass!
If you're mssing clarity, flatwounds sure won't get you closer.