COPIOUSLY CONTENTIOUS CONTENT !!! TEN MOST OVERRATED DRUMMERS !!!Here is a member of the drummer caste of untouchables who rates Ian Paice, Bill Ward ("
great leftfield ideas to Sabbath's music") and Simon Kirke ("
ten times the groove of Bonham") all above Cozy ("
whom I loved when I was like twelve years old, I thought he was the reatest drummer ever ...") and Bonzo. And even gives reasons for it (which can be contested of course, but some of his observations are spot on):
I just leave this here and make a run for it. 😂
PS: The suitably incendiary list of overratees is:
01. Neil Peart 🧐 "
everything written out and played exactly the same night for night"
02. John Bonham 😱😱😱 "
great sound, but not the greatest chops"
03. Keith Moon 🥸 "
he splashes his way through, he's completely random"
04. Ginger Baker 😠"
overrated by himself, overplays the swing thing"
05. Charlie Watts 😑 "
you don't have to work at his feel because it's so bloody obvious"
06: Dave Grohl 😂 "
not even the best drummer in his own band"
07. Chad Smith 😂 "
greatest FUNK drummer ever?!"
08. Carl Palmer 🤖 "
when you listen to ELP there is something lacking in the rhythm section"
09. Cozy Powell 😇 "
he's got like three beats and three fills - and he plays them ALL the time"
10. Danny Carey 🤖 "
lackluster, a bit lacking in feel perhaps, anal-retentive?"
Ah, yes Cozy Powell.
Same with me. Used to love him when I was a twelve years old.
But as I grew older I just think he was so wooden, so stiff, almost un-musical.
That drum intro to Stargazer that is mentioned in the video for example. That break sounds so clumsy to me.
It's like someone shakes a drawer of cutlery. It doesn't have dynamics, it has no groove, it has no rhythm.
Glad he mentions Brian Downey as the opposite of Cozy Powell by the way.
Now that's a drummer who can groove and swing. And play with dynamics.
I seem to agree on all accounts, except nr 8 and nr 10 where I don't feel qualified to have an opinion. Though I'd also like to say that they all have their own charm just because they have a certain style (Neil Pearts style was totally neutral though which was perhaps his charm)
That list reminds me of the old saying "when you shoot at the king, you better not miss."
Well that list contains a number of "kings" and IMO the author missed on all of them.
My thoughts are:
1. Neil Peart was a brilliant technician, but Rush is neither improvisational nor groovy.
2. John Bonham's fame very much relies on the aural dramatic setting a sympathetic Jimmy Page in the producer's chair provided for his drumming on the Zep recordings.
3. Keith Moon was chaos, but had his moments of accidental brilliance. I would not consider him and JAE to have ever formed a groovy rhythm section though. The Who isn't really dance music.
4. I like Ginger Baker. He overplayed, but in a way of an over-animated participant in a discussion who has interesting things to say talking over people. Ginger's discussion partner was the music he played to.
5. Charlie Watts was a minimalist, but it somehow worked with the Rolling Stones. A more modern and conventional drummer alters their sound.
6. I know too little about Nirvana's and the Foo Fighter's music - both bands never did anything for me - to really judge Dave Grohl as a drummer, he seems like a nice guy.
7. Chad Smith has a nice jammy feel with RHCP, I don't hear anything awe-inspiring though.
8. Carl Palmer is precise, enjoyable to watch and has loads of attitude, also a sense for drama, but his drumming is mechanical.
9. Cozy had his own style and drummed like a comic book hero, but the music needed to be patterned to his style because he coudn't do it the other way around. In the wrong musical environment, he could really destroy things (Whitesnake). Also unsympathetic to bassists - unlike Ian Paice, he doesn't really listen to them. I think he worked fine with ELP because his drumming was kind of pompous-militaristic. He is on record for saying he enjoyed ELP the most of all his bands.
10. I was at my first Tool gig ever only comparatively recently, a fan of theirs dragged me along. The drumming was complex and impressive, but it could have also stemmed from a well-programmed drum machine.
The person who did that video, his name is Andy, I personally found to be very annoying. I would watch some more of his videos, but I know I wouldn't be able to stand them. The only specific comments I'll make is since when is Charlie Watts overrated? If anything I have always thought he was one of the most underrated rock drummers. I feel Andy and I are living in different worlds.
Also, Charlie only died in 2021. I don't feel like watching anything too critical of him anyway. The last thing I would ever feel like doing is saying something disrespectful toward someone who had recently died. Maybe others would disagree, but that's the way I feel. All I can say is I don't expect to ever be watching any of Andy's videos again. Frankly, as far as I'm concerned he sucks. I know he is probably a great drummer and blah, blah, blah. But I don't care. Not a fan.
I've come across a few videos from this Andy fellow. I thought the one he did about most guitar players being mediocre was pretty funny. I think he's primarily a guitarist but I could be wrong.
A couple more that could be up here would be Bill Kreutzman and Mickey Hart. Tommy Lee and Ricky Rocket probably could have been mentioned. I'd venture to say most mainstream popular music drummers are overrated. Ask most people who Elvin Jones or Vinnie Colaiuta are and they would be clueless versus say Travis Barker.
As consolation for all you Charlie Watts fans, the new Steven Wilson remix:
Not one of the ten drummers deemed "overrated" is a bad musician and Andy isn't saying that. Charlie's drumming on Hot Stuff is minimalist, but stylish. He was also a lot wealthier than Neil Peart. 😎
Thanks, that reminded me I needed to order the Stones Black and Blue CD with the Steven Wilson remixes. Jeff Beck is on three of those songs. I just now ordered it. It had already gone up a few dollars since I looked at it a few days ago. So waiting was only causing me to lose money.
In regard to Dave Grohl trying to seem like a nice guy, all the best to him, but he seems to need a little work on that. I have nothing against him and I'm not one to judge anyone's moral failings. However, I was never a fan of Nirvana and even less of a fan of the Foo Fighters. I'm mostly concerned about the music and the music just doesn't do it for me.
https://www.newsweek.com/entertainment/celebrity-news/dave-grohl-cheating-scandals-over-years-1960609
Moon was brash obnoxious and there for the show. I'm not sure he ever kept a beat. But when your acts soloist instrument breaks their instrument every show it probably doesn't matter.
Quote from: Rob on December 10, 2025, 07:37:20 AMwhen your acts soloist instrument breaks their instrument every show it probably doesn't matter.
I've never seen Entwistle break an instrument. ;D ;D
Ah, musician ranking lists - my favorite thing! Haha! Everyone's entitled to an opinion. Just off the top of my head, these are some of my favorites:
Bill Bruford
John Bonham
Stewart Copeland
Phil Collins
Neil Peart
Terry Bozzio
and probably countless jazz and funk drummers that I can't even name.
Bruford, Copeland, Collins and Bozzio are all remarkable drummers to me too.
Listening to that Steven Wilson remix of Black & Blue is a weird sensation - the Rolling Stones and you hear every individual instrument clearly? Heresy!!! :mrgreen:
He did the same thing only recently with Deep Purple's Made in Japan - same effect, all of the sudden it seems like Blackmore, Gillan, Glover, Lord & Paice are standing in your living room playing they music audibly, but not excessively loud. That of course takes away some of the primal onslaught of the MiJ recording, but the amount of new detail (inter alia, you hear Glover's pick hitting the strings of his Ric) is staggering. It really is good to have both the Steven Wilson and the prior Kevin Shirley/Martin Pullan remixes, Wilson if you want to sit back and ananlyze the playing, Shirley or Pullan if you want to pop open a can of beer and invite some DP fans over for a BBQ. 😂
I'm still waiting for my remix CD which won't be here until Sunday. It's a positive thing to read all this interesting stuff about it. Listening to it will be a welcome relief from having to deal with the antics of a problem neighbor. He is the most uncooperative person I've ever met. People point out we can't pick our relatives. Unfortunately, we can't pick our neighbors, either. But in my case I've had more than my share of problems with both.
Was a time Ringo would be on that list , everybody loved to bash him. I always thought he was a great one. Played the song.
Quote from: morrow on December 11, 2025, 06:50:29 AMWas a time Ringo would be on that list , everybody loved to bash him. I always thought he was a great one. Played the song.
AGREE!
I like Rush, but I find Neil's drimking very precise but cold and lacking personality. I know he donned a jazz drummer hat and started playing big band stuff at some point, but there is zero swing or groove in his playing as I don't think there was any in the man.
Quote from: morrow on December 11, 2025, 06:50:29 AMWas a time Ringo would be on that list , everybody loved to bash him. I always thought he was a great one. Played the song.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sK3S2_Pmk-w
Quote from: Alanko on December 12, 2025, 04:03:42 PMI like Rush, but I find Neil's drimking very precise but cold and lacking personality. I know he donned a jazz drummer hat and started playing big band stuff at some point, but there is zero swing or groove in his playing as I don't think there was any in the man.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgrBQ1T7I04
Drummers who praised Charlie Watts.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/h4Dg9o6-V1s
That Peart meets Watts story is très cute.
Peart was a technician, but just right for what Rush were about. It's not like Geddy or Alex would have been invited to the Sexual Healing sessions of Marvin Gaye either.
Quote from: uwe on December 19, 2025, 09:40:33 AMIt's not like Geddy or Alex would have been invited to the Sexual Healing sessions of Marvin Gaye either.
That would ruffle their kimonos and get 'em choking on their Tim Hortons.
(https://i.redd.it/0jg5nrvtdsr21.jpg)
Quote from: morrow on December 11, 2025, 06:50:29 AMWas a time Ringo would be on that list , everybody loved to bash him. I always thought he was a great one. Played the song.
Ian Paice is a lifelong Ringo fan and deems him totally underrated. And he's admitted that he stole Ringo's Come Together tom-tom work for this here: