Short article on bass amps.
https://www.premierguitar.com/pro-advice/bass-bench/history-of-bass-amps
He should have called Andy Field at Mesa, Jeff at Genzler amplification, or Douglas Castro at Darkglass. It would have been a much more interesting article.
Quote from: BeeTL on December 04, 2021, 08:04:51 PM
He should have called Andy Field at Mesa, Jeff at Genzler amplification, or Douglas Castro at Darkglass. It would have been a much more interesting article.
Here is a bio on the author. I've never heard of him. Also, he is from Germany and it seems he has been building basses for a while.
http://www.basslabusa.com/products/basslab/about.html
He could have picked a better example for the Class D lightweight amps of today, instead of that (godawful) Ashdown Little Giant :P
It was a short article .
Definitely not paid by the word.
Those early VOX amps were fire starters.
I was a tech at a music store in the late 60's and remember (I think) Acoustic Amps . . . blue top on the face. Had a return rate greater than 50% because of rectifier failures.
Quote from: Rob on December 05, 2021, 06:36:53 AM
Definitely not paid by the word.
Those early VOX amps were fire starters.
I was a tech at a music store in the late 60's and remember (I think) Acoustic Amps . . . blue top on the face. Had a return rate greater than 50% because of rectifier failures.
Don't you think the only reason people were buying those VOX amps is because of the Beatles? I suppose it took people a while to figure out that quality should be the main consideration.
Quote from: westen44 on December 05, 2021, 07:19:00 AM
Don't you think the only reason people were buying those VOX amps is because of the Beatles? I suppose it took people a while to figure out that quality should be the main consideration.
I completely agree.
Quote from: Basvarken on December 05, 2021, 04:55:06 AM
He could have picked a better example for the Class D lightweight amps of today, instead of that (godawful) Ashdown Little Giant :P
Controversial perhaps, but I've never played through or even heard an Ashdown amp I've liked. They are associated with slightly over-the-hill rock acts and have this loud blah, vanilla tone. I've never seen the appeal.
Quote from: Rob on December 05, 2021, 06:36:53 AM
Definitely not paid by the word.
Those early VOX amps were fire starters.
I was a tech at a music store in the late 60's and remember (I think) Acoustic Amps . . . blue top on the face. Had a return rate greater than 50% because of rectifier failures.
The author assumes it's a given that Class D amps are progress. Some would disagree.
If you were running a Vox amp back then, it either ran hot or was actually on fire. ;) Without the Beatles, I doubt the brand would have survived.
Acoustic is a good example of a revived name brand that has little or nothing to do with the originals. Like the reissue Sunns from about 20 years ago.
Quote from: Dave W on December 06, 2021, 03:36:38 PM
The author assumes it's a given that Class D amps are progress. Some would disagree.
If you were running a Vox amp back then, it either ran hot or was actually on fire. ;)
hahahaha
True I think those old Acoustics were Koss engineers not musicians.
H
I don't know how they can completely ignore Sunn in this story - instead giving Ampeg the credit for finally achieving enough power in a tube amp (and saying the B-15 did it - it didn't - that's a pretty low power amp that was a studio staple not so much live). This was the reason Sunn Amps was created - the first one was built for Conrad's brother (bassist in The Kingsmen) who complained about lack of power. It grew into a proper company when other players noticed and wanted one too.
Also trying to compare a Class D amp to a tube amp merely in terms of wattage spec and weight is hilarious and demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge re the strengths and weaknesses of both. I'm no solid state hater but that's apples and oranges.
Amp history is funny. After I got into the Gibson history, it seems they have inspired about every guitar amp maker that came after, including Fender, Vox and Marshall. They did make fine bass amps early on too. They did not explore high gain or agressively voiced amps, simply because they did not want those tones. As for early high power guitar/bass amps, there are some romantic stories that makes some people think Marshall or Fender were some kind of pioneers 'inventing' 100 watt heads in their shops because young soon to be famous players couldn't find loud enough amps. Can't say there is much difference though, between a 100w marshall head from '65 and a philips head from '55, except the philips ones are more compact.
As for class D, from a service perspective... I see the rate those yellow amps break down, and support is non exsisting for a lot of brands. Some, especially smpeg after Yamaha took over, have good support though. Nowdays, I carry a portaflex 350 class D as a backup for my Superbass 100 because of weight. It has a replaced motherboard, sounds OK but is not really louder than the SB. I think that weight is the only reason to taking class D serious, but they break down and pile up at such a rate that it's a threat to the environment 🌲🌲
Quote from: amptech on December 10, 2021, 12:19:42 AM
Amp history is funny. After I got into the Gibson history, it seems they have inspired about every guitar amp maker that came after, including Fender, Vox and Marshall. They did make fine bass amps early on too. They did not explore high gain or agressively voiced amps, simply because they did not want those tones. As for early high power guitar/bass amps, there are some romantic stories that makes some people think Marshall or Fender were some kind of pioneers 'inventing' 100 watt heads in their shops because young soon to be famous players couldn't find loud enough amps. Can't say there is much difference though, between a 100w marshall head from '65 and a philips head from '55, except the philips ones are more compact.
...
Sounds like you might be referring to Dick Dale's tall tale about how Leo Fender created the Dual Showman specifically because Dale kept blowing up amps. Funny that Dale never mentioned this until shortly after Leo died. No evidence that this ever happened.
Quote from: Dave W on December 10, 2021, 11:03:14 PM
Sounds like you might be referring to Dick Dale's tall tale about how Leo Fender created the Dual Showman specifically because Dale kept blowing up amps. Funny that Dale never mentioned this until shortly after Leo died. No evidence that this ever happened.
Dick Dale, The Who, Whoever used Vox, etc. Good 100W heads that didn't catch fire when powered up were around long before Vox, Fender and Marshall. The first 100W Marshall's used two output transformers because the one used in the JTM45 was the largest they could buy (quote from the Marshall shall history book). You get the impression that without Pete Townshend's input, AC30's would still be the loudest amp in europe. Of course, the book should point out that the JTM45 transformer was the largest Marshall could buy
in the military surplus shop across the street. Now, I love Marshall and of course the stack is a significant piece of history, but from a technical point of view few real inventions in tube amp design was done after mid 50's.
I have a GenzBenz Streamliner . It's maybe ten years old . The LED lights in the front panel had died , but the rest of the amp seemed to work wonderfully . Three tube preamp . Three gain stages , easy to dial in a clean , warm , or even distorted tone .
It had become a backup , but remained a lovely amp . 900 watts . I always had a shit ton of headroom . So when I heard that the guy that designed the amp was still servicing them I contacted him and sent it off to California .
Might have been one of my better gear expenditures last year . It came back with some factory upgrades and works like a brand new amp . I was over the moon to have the Class D rejuvenated .
I have two other Class D heads that see a lot of use . My little practise head that gets a daily workout , and my gig rig that just goes out the door on weekends .
Quote from: morrow on December 11, 2021, 06:14:08 AM
I have a GenzBenz Streamliner . It's maybe ten years old . The LED lights in the front panel had died , but the rest of the amp seemed to work wonderfully . Three tube preamp . Three gain stages , easy to dial in a clean , warm , or even distorted tone .
It had become a backup , but remained a lovely amp . 900 watts . I always had a shit ton of headroom . So when I heard that the guy that designed the amp was still servicing them I contacted him and sent it off to California .
Might have been one of my better gear expenditures last year . It came back with some factory upgrades and works like a brand new amp . I was over the moon to have the Class D rejuvenated .
I have two other Class D heads that see a lot of use . My little practise head that gets a daily workout , and my gig rig that just goes out the door on weekends .
Ah, you found Andy, aka Agedhorse. Well done. A Streamliner is too nice a piece of gear to leave sitting around with lights out.
My G-B Shuttle 6.2 is the last amp I plan to buy.
It was pretty amazing to actually be dealing with the guy that designed the amp . I live in Nova Scotia . Andy is legend , and the Liner is well worth investing in . My primary gigging head these days is a Bergantino , and I've had some contact with Jim too . I was recently considering buying a Broughton high pass filter until I discovered my Berg already has one . As does the Liner !
I've still got some amps on the wish list . I'd love to find a Monique by Jule someday . In the birdcage ! And maybe pair it with a Demeter power stage ... one can dream .
Quote from: amptech on December 11, 2021, 12:07:54 AM
Good 100W heads that didn't catch fire when powered up were around long before Vox, Fender and Marshall.
What were those, out of curiosity?
Quote from: slinkp on December 13, 2021, 03:21:34 PM
What were those, out of curiosity?
Both tube and radio manufacturers offered pa systems in various forms from very early on. My favourite, philips, made tubes (they invented the pentode around 1927) and published data and application notes. They also made components like transformers and capacitors, anyone could buy and build. When the EL34 tube was available (early 50's) it was not too expensive to build 100 watters. Philips had their own pa head, the EL6431, built both in Germany and Holland. Actually rated for 120 Watts, both high and low impedance inputs, channel switching, came out around 1955. I have one, great instrument amp. I have a few big heads from the early 50's made in Norway and Sweden too, made by radio manufacturers. Technology is basically the same.
Quote from: amptech on December 13, 2021, 11:30:30 PM. Technology is basically the same.
Exactly, all that the usual suspects added was voicing - sometimes accidentally. As well as other guitar/bass focused bells and whistles.
The first Sunn was a Dynaco kit, with a custom preamp in front of it. The Dynacos had been around for a while but not in a form factor good for gigging and no 1/4" instrument input.
Quote from: amptech on December 13, 2021, 11:30:30 PM
Both tube and radio manufacturers offered pa systems in various forms from very early on. My favourite, philips, made tubes (they invented the pentode around 1927) and published data and application notes. They also made components like transformers and capacitors, anyone could buy and build. When the EL34 tube was available (early 50's) it was not too expensive to build 100 watters. Philips had their own pa head, the EL6431, built both in Germany and Holland. Actually rated for 120 Watts, both high and low impedance inputs, channel switching, came out around 1955. I have one, great instrument amp. I have a few big heads from the early 50's made in Norway and Sweden too, made by radio manufacturers. Technology is basically the same.
This. My impression is that the tube manufacturers published schematics using their proprietary tubes so that anybody could build a device (amplifier, radio, etc.) for fun or for profit. The tubes are a consumable product, so facilitating their use in a broad range of applications was the marketing strategy.