... even if it's coming from a Kraut. There are way too few melodic bass solos in this world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ0DBc4Q2Nc
Nice.
I met him several times and he's a great guy too!
Yes, he had a long battle with cancer but is now recuperating and touring again though it has left its marks on his stamina.
What I like about Hattler is that in all his playing he never loses a hummable melody. A lot of other virtuoso bassists do and their jazzy lightning-fast scales then tend to sound same-ish.
Lovely!
And great to hear someone playing a bass solo with a pick.
Hattler is a convinced pick player, he finds it "more logical and functional to play downstrokes on the downbeat and upstrokes on the offbeat, pick playing invites to do that". He plays the same oversized Heriba picks I do (coincidence, Heriba is a German brand whose picks you can find in even the most remote mom & pop store), we both use the black version though.
(https://www.martinsmusikkiste.eu/media/image/8f/4e/40/xHERIBAROT_200x200.jpg.pagespeed.ic.7PxqqnhrcM.webp)
They're hard (but not too stiff), yet thin, so they don't kill/muffle the harmonics like many heavier plectrums do. Hattler relies on that for his harmonics-rich sound.
Nice to keep seeing threads like this. As opposed to tripe sometimes found elsewhere that maintains you're not a real bassist unless you're playing finger style. Actually, I've got a friend like this. He would rather die than use a pick.
All pick players are crap, sound the same and are generally an unmusical bunch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YahrEjyPPnA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z20vmp2TR38
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU5IdEY92KI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svpOsFx1tbA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yRl-Fkg2TU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffZXnWkbkgs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFdaqfM7BnA
I'll just leave this here... sadly no video
https://youtu.be/X9CTLyAdAJs?t=490
I only saw the "real" (discuss!) YES (Benoit David & Geoff Downes line up on the Fly From Here tour) once but that performance is immortalized by Squire's utter stage dominance (in a pleasant, non-Ted-Nugent-way :) ), general gung-ho attitude, devil-may-care gifted sloppiness and, errrr ... V O L U M E !!! He was a force of nature. I can't remember any other band where a non lead-vocalist bass player held the whole band (in the case of YES not exactly consisting of slouches and shrinking violets) so much in his grip. That said, he sang so much, he was really a second lead vocalist.
I also saw the "other" (discuss even more!) YES aka ARW quite recently and Lee Pomeroy played all the right notes skillfully on his lefty Ric, but he wasn't in any way leading the band like Squire had. The difference (from a bass player's view) was profound, Chris Squire's occasional bum notes or not! He was - may the eternal bass gods (un)rest his soul - a real Ric-Rambo. If sometimes in his mother's wardrobe. :mrgreen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyG08QMKt8o
Quote from: uwe on November 08, 2019, 08:40:59 AMthat performance is immortalized by Squire's utter stage dominance (in a pleasant, non-Ted-Nugent-way :) ), general gung-ho attitude, devil-may-care gifted sloppiness and, errrr ... V O L U M E !!! He was a force of nature. I can't remember any other band where a non lead-vocalist bass player held the whole band (in the case of YES not exactly consisting of slouches and shrinking violets) so much in his grip. That said, he sang so much, he was really a second lead vocalist.
I agree with all of this 1000%.
As for that whole anti-pick thing - It's both annoying and comical, usually spewed by people who don't know WTF they're talking about. Uwe's run of videos is just part of a list of legendary, respected bass players who use a pick some or all of the time. Add Entwistle, JPJ, Steve Swallow (a jazzer!), Tom Hamilton, Macca, on and on...
"I agree with all of this 1000%."
Can't you do better? I hate how non-committal you are.
Quote from: gearHed289 on November 08, 2019, 09:10:07 AM
I agree with all of this 1000%.
As for that whole anti-pick thing - It's both annoying and comical, usually spewed by people who don't know WTF they're talking about. Uwe's run of videos is just part of a list of legendary, respected bass players who use a pick some or all of the time. Add Entwistle, JPJ, Steve Swallow (a jazzer!), Tom Hamilton, Macca, on and on...
99% of the anti-pick crowd are just third rate losers. Occasionally an accomplished bassist will say something ignorant (Chuck Rainey comes to mind) but for the most part, it's just jealous wannabes.
Carol Kaye is 100% pick...
Tony Levin switches ...
So many excellent players use picks.
It's just snobbery to be anti-pick.
Don't like them? Don't use them.
Here is a good article (in two parts) by one of the best known pick players--Bobby Vega. Note these points he makes--
When somebody says real bass players don't use a pick, my first thoughts are: (1) I guess they can't play bass with a pick, and (2) they're cheating themselves out of a lot of music.
https://www.bassplayer.com/artists/bobby-vega-to-pick-or-not-to-pick-part-i
https://www.bassplayer.com/lessons/bobby-vega-to-pick-or-not-to-pick-part-2
Playing with a pick is fine but playing a T bird with a clip on tuner at a performance I can't abide. C'mon Martin Turner.
I think some of the anti pick attitude is just an inferiority complex from bass players who don't want to seem like they're wishing they were guitar players.
Good stuff Uwe btw.
I think some anti-pick bias is also thinly disguised genre bias. Specifically against hard rock, metal, punk, and the thousands of offshoots from them, where pick playing dominates.
This takes a couple forms. One is dismissing music that is simple, as if simplicity is a failing and "real" musicians are only found in more difficult styles. Snobbery again.
And that doesn't fly as a bias against a lot of metal groups of course, which can get into extremely difficult music..Just to pick one ... I'm not a Megadeth fan per se, but I do find them worth an occasional listen and it takes a really intense level of dedicated musicianship to play like Elefson, and it would be absurd to say that his playing would be improved by losing the pick when he's built his whole sound and approach around it. I've read comments of people on YouTube saying he's not really playing bass, he's playing rhythm guitar. To which I say, this is a problem how exactly? His parts fit the music, and if that's what you want to call it, then I'd say he's a better rhythm guitarist than most guitarists.
Quote from: slinkp on November 09, 2019, 06:45:35 PM
I think some anti-pick bias is also thinly disguised genre bias. Specifically against hard rock, metal, punk, and the thousands of offshoots from them, where pick playing dominates.
This takes a couple forms. One is dismissing music that is simple, as if simplicity is a failing and "real" musicians are only found in more difficult styles. Snobbery again.
And that doesn't fly as a bias against a lot of metal groups of course, which can get into extremely difficult music..Just to pick one ... I'm not a Megadeth fan per se, but I do find them worth an occasional listen and it takes a really intense level of dedicated musicianship to play like Elefson, and it would be absurd to say that his playing would be improved by losing the pick when he's built his whole sound and approach around it. I've read comments of people on YouTube saying he's not really playing bass, he's playing rhythm guitar. To which I say, this is a problem how exactly? His parts fit the music, and if that's what you want to call it, then I'd say he's a better rhythm guitarist than most guitarists.
In other words, some of the best genres are ones that tend to call for bass playing with a pick--the way I look at it at least. Hard rock to me is the most interesting kind of rock and some metal is also good.
I believe that some of the bias came from upright bassists who refused to recognize electric bass guitar as legitimate. They looked down on guitarists who started playing electric bass, and resented losing gigs when it caught on.
Quote from: Dave W on November 10, 2019, 10:02:07 AM
I believe that some of the bias came from upright bassists who refused to recognize electric bass guitar as legitimate. They looked down on guitarists who started playing electric bass, and resented losing gigs when it caught on.
I agree! Anthony Jackson said "it's whatever it takes to make the song sound right".
Quote from: Dave W on November 10, 2019, 10:02:07 AM
I believe that some of the bias came from upright bassists who refused to recognize electric bass guitar as legitimate. They looked down on guitarists who started playing electric bass, and resented losing gigs when it caught on.
I don't ever bother getting into any debates about it, but I often ask the question - "Would you tell an upright player they can't use a bow?". ;D And what about guitarists playing finger-style? :-X
Quote from: Dave W on November 10, 2019, 10:02:07 AM
I believe that some of the bias came from upright bassists who refused to recognize electric bass guitar as legitimate. They looked down on guitarists who started playing electric bass, and resented losing gigs when it caught on.
That's a good point. Is it possible that younger generations who never even touched or listened to upright have inherited this without even knowing why?
Quote from: uwe on November 07, 2019, 07:22:23 PM
All pick players are crap, sound the same and are generally an unmusical bunch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YahrEjyPPnA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z20vmp2TR38
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hU5IdEY92KI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svpOsFx1tbA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yRl-Fkg2TU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffZXnWkbkgs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFdaqfM7BnA
Isn't that Scott's bass that Jimmy Lea is playing?
At least of the same make.
Quote from: 4stringer77 on November 09, 2019, 08:00:24 AM
Playing with a pick is fine but playing a T bird with a clip on tuner at a performance I can't abide.
I'll tell him to take it off when I'm in Cologne to see him end of this month! ;D
Quote from: slinkp on November 09, 2019, 06:45:35 PM
I think some anti-pick bias is also thinly disguised genre bias. Specifically against hard rock, metal, punk, and the thousands of offshoots from them, where pick playing dominates.
Does it actually? I agree that pick playing is more popular in those genres, but does it really constitute the majority? Geezer Butler, Gary Thain, Cliff Burton, Trevor Bolder, Steve Dawson, Neil Murray, Rudy Sarzo, Steve Harris, Geddy Lee, Robert Trujillo, Dusty Hill, Marco Mendoza, Rob Grange - there are plenty of finger playing rockers.
I sometimes think that pick playing is probably most popular in prog music - lots of notes played fast with a bright sound and a quick attack. Chris Squire, John Wetton, Roger Waters, Greg Lake, Dougie Thomson (Supertramp), Ray Shulman (Gentle Giant), Michael Rutherford, almost all Jethro Tull bassists (and there have been a few) ...
Quote from: uwe on November 11, 2019, 04:42:06 PM
At least of the same make.
I'm thinking that's Scott's, IIRC Lea signed it.
Quote from: gearHed289 on November 11, 2019, 10:15:13 AM
I don't ever bother getting into any debates about it, but I often ask the question - "Would you tell an upright player they can't use a bow?". ;D And what about guitarists playing finger-style? :-X
Real bassists play arco!
(ducking for cover) :mrgreen:
Quote from: TBird1958 on November 11, 2019, 06:20:43 PM
I'm thinking that's Scott's, IIRC Lea signed it.
Yes he signed it, but I'm pretty sure Scott got a new replica of that bass.
Quote from: Dave W on November 11, 2019, 10:18:51 PM
Real bassists play arco!
(ducking for cover) :mrgreen:
;D ;D ;D I'm getting T-shirts made with that slogan!
Nothing better than playing a '76 Bird loud with a pick - Big clanky MF'er. :-*
Quote from: Dave W on November 11, 2019, 10:18:51 PM
Real bassists play arco!
(ducking for cover) :mrgreen:
Been there, done that ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjidSWwdqIQ
The bow-wielding electric bassist you hear in the above audio later on ditched his arco aspirations in the Australian wilderness looking for American thighs to knock him out. The rest is history.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo2qQmj0_h4
Quote from: gearHed289 on November 12, 2019, 08:33:50 AM
;D ;D ;D I'm getting T-shirts made with that slogan!
Market them to the right audience and you could make some real money. ;)
Interesting thread, I wasn't aware that anyone cared either way. I use a pick rarely, but I always have one with me. I make them out of rawhide, sometimes ebony, even vintage tortoise shell.
I knew of a guy in Gainesville back in the 70s that was missing his right hand just above the wrist, he was a good bassist, he had a leather prosthetic with a pick installed. He had to play from the elbow.
I paralyzed my right arm by 50% when I broke my neck in an automotive accident, previously I had crushed the radial head in my right arm elbow the doc fused it. Three times in my life I had to re-learn how to play. The good news is it's been 27 years since I've used alcohol or other intoxicants "o) and better than I ever was on bass or guitar.
Any tool it takes to service the song is appropriate. I ain't you, you ain't me and there is nothing wrong with that.
Quote from: Hushnel on December 11, 2019, 01:51:14 PM
Interesting thread, I wasn't aware that anyone cared either way. I use a pick rarely, but I always have one with me. I make them out of rawhide, sometimes ebony, even vintage tortoise shell.
I knew of a guy in Gainesville back in the 70s that was missing his right hand just above the wrist, he was a good bassist, he had a leather prosthetic with a pick installed. He had to play from the elbow.
I paralyzed my right arm by 50% when I broke my neck in an automotive accident, previously I had crushed the radial head in my right arm elbow the doc fused it. Three times in my life I had to re-learn how to play. The good news is it's been 27 years since I've used alcohol or other intoxicants "o) and better than I ever was on bass or guitar.
Any tool it takes to service the song is appropriate. I ain't you, you ain't me and there is nothing wrong with that.
It shouldn't matter, but it does to some people.
Quote from: uwe on November 12, 2019, 01:38:33 PM
The bow-wielding electric bassist you hear in the above audio later on ditched his arco aspirations in the Australian wilderness looking for American thighs to knock him out. The rest is history.
Don't remember him using the upright live... :P (supporting Slade, 73 or 74 ish)
That bass Jim Lea was playing, Ma'am... iirc Scott's too...
Gustafson was incredible to watch live... just the once with Gillan... fretless and fretted Wal's...
As for tools of the trade... use both, but mostly fingers these days, and my nails for a bit of clank from time to time too...
I believe Cliff Williams used the bow on his electric bass on this particular Home track - not on an upright.