The Last Bass Outpost

Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: toddbooster on June 28, 2016, 03:10:13 PM

Title: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: toddbooster on June 28, 2016, 03:10:13 PM
Hi everyone. I'm new here, but I've been lurking on and off for years (I first discovered this forum about 10 years ago when I was briefly obsessed with Gibson basses), and I've finally decided to make an account so I can pick your brains for a little advice.

Recently, I picked up a walnut, 1972 EB-4L on impulse. It's a bit banged up, but it plays and sounds wonderful. Anyway, on to the meat of my post: the three position switch.

Mine works, but is missing it's knob. I tried to pop a Strat knob on there, but it seems that the blade has been broken off at some point and is too short, so that with the knob on, it won't switch fully over to the left or right (the knob bumps into the screw heads on either side).

Anyway, I searched high and low, and even found reports of a mysterious "Nighthawk" switch which would work, but that was from 5 years ago, and there is nothing left for sale anywhere. What I can't find is any info about what kind of switch it is, who makes/made it, or if there is a modern switch which could replace it.

So, if anyone can help with some pointers or advice, I would really appreciate it.

Todd
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: Granny Gremlin on June 28, 2016, 04:28:05 PM
Welcome!

The only EB4L wiring diagram I could findis on pg116 of this german PDF:  http://161589.homepagemodules.de/file.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Ffiles.homepagemodules.de%2Fb161589%2Ff2t29p70n2_KCIhpUwM.pdf&r=&content=RE%3A_Cadfaels_kleine_Schaltplan-Sammlung_f%26uuml%3Br_passive_E-B%26auml%3Bsse_

That is not going to be an easy part to replace - 3P3T (a Tele switch is 2P3T).  Ebay will find you one eventually.  You could replace it with an EB3 style rotary 3P3T (easy to find) but it won't be the same - not sure if that plastic minipanel it's mounted in is big enough to take a 1/4" shaft.

There was a parts guy on ebay selling Triumph bass switches which will work (4P3T IIRC - just leave the last pole unused - this will not give you an emopty switch position, that would be annoying, the T number = the number of positions, the poles are like how many switches are controlled by the same lever).  If those are gone, then I'm sure someone here bought 1 more spare than they really need....

Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: Nocturnal on June 28, 2016, 05:04:43 PM
Welcome aboard!!
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: FrankieTbird on June 29, 2016, 05:08:54 AM
Welcome!

I may have a spare switch.  I bought two off eBay years ago & only used one.  I'll have a look for it and let you know.
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: toddbooster on June 29, 2016, 06:21:00 AM
Thanks everyone for your warm welcomes, and help. I've learned more about this switch here in a few short paragraphs than I did from a whole day of searching!

@FrankieTbird: If you could have a look, I'd appreciate it.
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: Granny Gremlin on June 29, 2016, 07:13:38 AM
I just dug mine out - turns out I grabbed 2 of them; indeed 4P3T.  If Frankie has a spare the shipping from him will be cheaper (also we have a potential postal strike starting this weekend).

It looks exactly like this one:

(http://www.vintageguitarandbass.com/graphics/EB4L_controls.jpg)

Turns out these may have been EB4L switches after all - the switch tip is very different from my Triumph (though they'll work fine for that too - maybe that was all that was different and otherwise same part).  Note how the inner connections aren't being used (there's 2 poles per each of those turqoise wheels, so they had to order them with an extra pole even though they only needed 3 - a Tele switch would have only one of those wheels).   The lever is also rather long (to reach thru the wood panel).

Might be a good idea to double check the measurements:

mounting hole spacing (Center to center): 1 1/4" exactly

mounting depth: 1" (maybe +1/32nd or something, when wires are solderred to it it'll be a bit more)
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: toddbooster on June 29, 2016, 08:48:20 AM
Thanks for all this info Granny, it's always good to have options. Curiously, we're about to have a postal strike too (unless you're in Canada too, in which case it's not curious at all really). I can certainly wait until they have it sorted out.

I'll double check my measurements tonight when I'm home from work and get back to you.
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: FrankieTbird on June 29, 2016, 10:51:48 AM
Go ahead and get the switch from Granny since y'all are both in Canada, and I might have a coronary trying to locate that thing.  Good luck with it!
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: godofthunder on June 29, 2016, 11:02:21 AM
   If all else fails I believe I have one as well.
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: toddbooster on June 29, 2016, 11:45:20 AM
Ha! You guys are great. Two days ago I was like "Where the @#&! are all the switches?" The answer all along was "Why, they're all right here."
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: TBird1958 on June 29, 2016, 06:18:52 PM

Welcome Here!
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: BTL on June 29, 2016, 06:31:56 PM
Welcome, and congrats on finding the needle in a haystack.
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: toddbooster on June 29, 2016, 07:35:54 PM
For the record: screw holes on mine are 1 1/4" apart as well. Here's the inside:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qVOL-DklNJPwgrS5P-piVhQILBoJx8qnp2jZ9ymr-ZfQaJCzA781gVVHAaGYIJIr3dBjvGBklVDezkcJ1jenJmJeXR0TPJuEyKrO14ENVh01YOvsAul-AUxY27t1MVlyyR79E_h1qHGyMawdS22qM6f0sRQnZWnmsGMMhxCL9ZyM2EjZg5EXoOvuw4_OYT15Sv_tLjkv11VJVgkQ-_otEEFyed_7BICYkw_3UPWCUBraRzR5h-vweBHjEHihotHrSH3n9MIHl5vZLgD2hu6wyBJzFlFmU0QjN5IzvlqDxnu7hd4GCpoL_ndCZ0Ei_6uxRldN9jDAqVOK_zxBqzlviIOzd30edhw5ONNLkemTwBW4CiTnpgcOaKpqq40FAGG9SnBiWXWE-2aZRF2cUqwCmeNCJ62AGWkvYgO_8uNU41EVvLYsBK2DMs-lWI170TSt-soNCbWCPfQgMPuCT_KNda_cnrVi5y7jE_YMQ3_dtknYWnB-d6Zfx0PAaQSHr2ObL4S4dvk8igdDeL3mGTdU-6Ek1MwM23dk6gVtnn9O0C-oX5IDhflL2STUQp9KY281QsziY92Iik0IrnZ4O5QMQWCcyqZxSzE=w1175-h881-no)

Also, here's a shot of the slightly bent and shortened blade of the switch:

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/i8FOFd4U7N1FJAfLaSMNrqo8BQoeCW9I8nOZj7cU-SL2W_X1biLLYI6L9yB8izPwcWSW7MvwDT2NjFte3bzua0nP21ONan15QWi_2cmSB5Elsgad2tKApj-ktAUDJUebvrf9fZWg6vVursFJrdNNtVdSUulRDD6kmmjJLYovFnvAOqOWBpQ-VZwBTRrqshRkDrXXO2ENzjiEljj7zNBj1Vvf2jMIZ6024wC-F9PwUWJqoEVtYS-db1sHFezx2OEtxu_Brd1xxl93Xgjw5WKpAcdtx566nMuiLLZA78pjMDC-8fWEOnHa3yw8sxaxWKrdoJtv05TEE46LBoIXTqYrz8jODaj3kksLk-iCnNK5l2b_TOo8-AwJkU7ZCxjUxch4AZI8WI_gtTv4eQNhRZ6hP8aOyt0m0_21emwEYIJUbyyCy6rcPwYzRTslstLTDnJzobmshUdDdXz18wJkTAxbrovkmxgamSda9KcsCY6NrIyDupyRaxkTVzhMv5rDduBe3Lo4SR98D1j94bUX324r6w38ZY2S_lizWorLdsJOV9vVIf1VatjqmhdartMftScgOh0tua4nyegEd0PME7fDUvaWC5I4T8c=w1175-h881-no)

Apologies for the camera quality.
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: toddbooster on June 29, 2016, 07:46:34 PM
While I'm waiting on results for the switch I have another question, if you'll indulge me. It's about my Evertilt bridge.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/51lCR1002Rvz7vA712-tYteDufU7B4jXDGZWigOt0Eqxqd_YbHz9p9Qi-1ASH5Rx0PJq4G6yhtiGbo0Bcxl_Ie-uLcqQDz8Ur9SfjxJuOwlaP0iwjZfD3HvQKVEk8z8QbjltL44V62o1gVwBkrrj28Rs5W9OhKQ7RjBymlF-RPPIV7fWX1bje6klGBA7DvbVtMNBuG1Ra4uF7shhsobT-VQqTWF5h0DriN3NIdoww5yt9TYcacynaJueIjWIN7iqKW9R9jfFqgV6EV_AvlDv4on3lCN33Q6mc2QVthYd3VpaTxOuKn5HcfgeuTNPgU-Vk51w_WvNtikUEmucknOK_kRsegB1GGU9TuD2GgXM90D4jJSRO890OqlKREXNlMlOPaTMUSfN_rWXRuUkoMhZ7bu_So_-NiLKTd8pVY2ExgJt9vMDS3aFIkvbb1bHD_tCgOpvSsY4Y0XYjfAxHWLK0LvJBuni1sdCql5rp_WkZtRoo3gCYBnTocu48y1d3UfLjq2y3v998vi95y1X4iEYw9fiDKf_JWiJfW3oAwfgW83JMNdMSuzg4k6HzPsqsrFs143A9NJKpYJUyYo4-q-nrHSgrEku1gs=w1175-h881-no)

That's about as good as I could get it. Is that what one would consider too tilted? It seems to me like the action is almost perfect, even with that amount of lean. I'm not opposed to installing a Hipshot, but I'd like to keep the original, if it's not going to cause any harm like that. The only trouble then is that two of the ends of the intonation screws are broken, so I'd have to replace those.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Yi2O6noQa2QTyucIVF2cRjm9gWZ0HgEiV-5lHLQLNjd_xPUIw4OkgMqP4CKp-UNJlq9ukhAf39F1t0fTbir1KxDgLihD-OLSNCtZ5zjC3FZXK7NTG2jMsiBvtKnAzEB5pUcTm_glDKqm9woq9_LOVTwjnJZYEj99PpERi4I-6nBxX-sBsDLCwpvH1N-vLvlzfole64nM0F1TMaSY8yOGu0rzD9cX9auTEwye-bUlPDi6LTNirAXJnPNu8q-ahYDFSQzyatlHKbdax_YSCek2w-AG8gsfFV-yfIVcrras-zWhhQ7J8cuk67cFqJzt1XWVkMbgpJzufEst2cLkbH___OCnpRVjSwmz1dtIcon0Jzd0NX_gMC8QgU5oV3VrtojMKcAY65yV5LXyqxhIKWyKJIwBiOQUTaYJnMlguaEfSyxDUeVJvDRTV2JAKYO_dfhUu_SwvDoJ6T7O0aWcCN08EZ_kjyHSLfnktKbIRxqYV4zpNA9bGhwh7IZavgWwtj9-krdKAFLxW7o-TOVk9GLe9i2wFxypfSHOA21punDNfQjHFX-NhEy7Pr_c3l7dhf9L8CUyzRLzYdFSFbSSso-W2CdVKPFnNhM=w1175-h881-no)

Again, any and all advice is appreciated.

Thanks.
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: Basvarken on June 30, 2016, 04:34:21 AM
Pics are not visible...
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: toddbooster on June 30, 2016, 06:09:58 AM
Hmm, weird. How about now?
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: Granny Gremlin on June 30, 2016, 06:16:04 AM
Quote from: FrankieTbird on June 29, 2016, 10:51:48 AM
Go ahead and get the switch from Granny since y'all are both in Canada, and I might have a coronary trying to locate that thing.  Good luck with it!

LOL, I just assumed he was in the US like a majority of youze guyz.  Dude's actually from here.

Toddbooster, I'm in Leslieville.  Otherwise I work at Uni and Dundas.  With the postal strike coming meetup is probably easiest.  PM me.

I don't have an evertilt on any of mine, but if the action is good, that should be fine.  Some people just tend to get irked by such minor imperfections.
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: Basvarken on June 30, 2016, 08:06:41 AM
Quote from: toddbooster on June 30, 2016, 06:09:58 AM
Hmm, weird. How about now?

Nope...
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: toddbooster on June 30, 2016, 08:29:13 AM
Oh man. This is difficult to troubleshoot, as I can see them. Maybe a problem with Google Photos? I've added them to a shared album, and re-embedded them. Anything now?
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: Granny Gremlin on June 30, 2016, 08:36:19 AM
I see them; issue on Rob's end.
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: lowend1 on June 30, 2016, 09:05:09 AM
I replaced the Evertilt on my '72 EB-3 with a Hipshot and never looked back. It's a work of art.
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: Chris P. on June 30, 2016, 09:32:47 AM
Pics weren't visible this afternoon, but now, some hours later, they are.
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: Basvarken on June 30, 2016, 10:11:06 AM
Now they are.
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: Basvarken on June 30, 2016, 10:22:21 AM
Quote from: toddbooster on June 29, 2016, 07:46:34 PM
While I'm waiting on results for the switch I have another question, if you'll indulge me. It's about my Evertilt bridge.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/51lCR1002Rvz7vA712-tYteDufU7B4jXDGZWigOt0Eqxqd_YbHz9p9Qi-1ASH5Rx0PJq4G6yhtiGbo0Bcxl_Ie-uLcqQDz8Ur9SfjxJuOwlaP0iwjZfD3HvQKVEk8z8QbjltL44V62o1gVwBkrrj28Rs5W9OhKQ7RjBymlF-RPPIV7fWX1bje6klGBA7DvbVtMNBuG1Ra4uF7shhsobT-VQqTWF5h0DriN3NIdoww5yt9TYcacynaJueIjWIN7iqKW9R9jfFqgV6EV_AvlDv4on3lCN33Q6mc2QVthYd3VpaTxOuKn5HcfgeuTNPgU-Vk51w_WvNtikUEmucknOK_kRsegB1GGU9TuD2GgXM90D4jJSRO890OqlKREXNlMlOPaTMUSfN_rWXRuUkoMhZ7bu_So_-NiLKTd8pVY2ExgJt9vMDS3aFIkvbb1bHD_tCgOpvSsY4Y0XYjfAxHWLK0LvJBuni1sdCql5rp_WkZtRoo3gCYBnTocu48y1d3UfLjq2y3v998vi95y1X4iEYw9fiDKf_JWiJfW3oAwfgW83JMNdMSuzg4k6HzPsqsrFs143A9NJKpYJUyYo4-q-nrHSgrEku1gs=w1175-h881-no)

That's about as good as I could get it. Is that what one would consider too tilted? It seems to me like the action is almost perfect, even with that amount of lean. I'm not opposed to installing a Hipshot, but I'd like to keep the original, if it's not going to cause any harm like that. The only trouble then is that two of the ends of the intonation screws are broken, so I'd have to replace those.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Yi2O6noQa2QTyucIVF2cRjm9gWZ0HgEiV-5lHLQLNjd_xPUIw4OkgMqP4CKp-UNJlq9ukhAf39F1t0fTbir1KxDgLihD-OLSNCtZ5zjC3FZXK7NTG2jMsiBvtKnAzEB5pUcTm_glDKqm9woq9_LOVTwjnJZYEj99PpERi4I-6nBxX-sBsDLCwpvH1N-vLvlzfole64nM0F1TMaSY8yOGu0rzD9cX9auTEwye-bUlPDi6LTNirAXJnPNu8q-ahYDFSQzyatlHKbdax_YSCek2w-AG8gsfFV-yfIVcrras-zWhhQ7J8cuk67cFqJzt1XWVkMbgpJzufEst2cLkbH___OCnpRVjSwmz1dtIcon0Jzd0NX_gMC8QgU5oV3VrtojMKcAY65yV5LXyqxhIKWyKJIwBiOQUTaYJnMlguaEfSyxDUeVJvDRTV2JAKYO_dfhUu_SwvDoJ6T7O0aWcCN08EZ_kjyHSLfnktKbIRxqYV4zpNA9bGhwh7IZavgWwtj9-krdKAFLxW7o-TOVk9GLe9i2wFxypfSHOA21punDNfQjHFX-NhEy7Pr_c3l7dhf9L8CUyzRLzYdFSFbSSso-W2CdVKPFnNhM=w1175-h881-no)

Again, any and all advice is appreciated.

Thanks.

I have had success with teflon tape that pipe fitters use. Wrap it around the studs To make them a tighter fit with the baseplate of the bridge.
(http://www.enkoo.nl/uploads/1/3/3/7/13376708/9135452_orig.jpg)

NOTE: Before you take the baseplate off, make sure the hex screws are loosened. Otherwise you'll damage the insert studs.


About the intonation screws. You'll only need to intonate once.  ;)
If you loosen the strings (or take them off entirely) you should be able to give the screw a few turns with your fingers. Or take it out, then turn the saddle to the right position. Put it back and you're good (after a few times of trial and error)

By the way; I wonder if those are the original screws and saddles. Most two pointers have nylon saddles and non slotted screw heads (the slot is on the other side in the threaded part)

Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: toddbooster on June 30, 2016, 12:26:23 PM
Quote from: Basvarken on June 30, 2016, 10:22:21 AMBy the way; I wonder if those are the original screws and saddles. Most two pointers have nylon saddles and non slotted screw heads (the slot is on the other side in the threaded part)

I had thought the saddles for these bridges were only nylon as well, but a little searching turned this up from the Two-Point Bass Bridge section at Fly Guitars http://www.flyguitars.com/gibson/bass/parts/bridge/2pointbridge.php (http://www.flyguitars.com/gibson/bass/parts/bridge/2pointbridge.php): "In 1972 the saddles were upgraded to metal (image 5), shortly before this bridge was replaced by the three point."

(http://www.flyguitars.com/graphics/part24_5.jpg)

Anyway, hopefully that means they are original.
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: Stjofön Big on June 30, 2016, 03:26:50 PM
Welcome aboard!
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: uwe on July 01, 2016, 09:09:28 AM
I've seen worse tilts than that - you've got it so low that the whole ingenious contraption is stabilized. If you are ok with the action, then leave it be. Dave always says that these bridges are fine, just lacking a stringholder and Gibson has that scheduled for separate release circa 2027.
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: Dave W on July 01, 2016, 09:59:44 AM
Quote from: uwe on July 01, 2016, 09:09:28 AM
I've seen worse tilts than that - you've got it so low that the whole ingenious contraption is stabilized. If you are ok with the action, then leave it be. Dave always says that these bridges are fine, just lacking a stringholder and Gibson has that scheduled for separate release circa 2027.

:P

Gibson had that tailpiece on the '59 EB-0 prototype! It just got lost somewhere in Kalamazoo.
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: uwe on July 01, 2016, 10:26:10 AM
Yeah, and we invented the telephone!
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: toddbooster on July 06, 2016, 12:03:51 PM
Thanks Granny!

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/29zClpB1Nu-e8aqlH1s5jDub_hbj4RKx0ZFNwoQMsKQwKMlKijkGpbo9f94SeGOsj9SHFe0k2cjt6It0iFxQcmlZbaX6uDpS5wAHP-U2KrBh8BhfvjyP2wQYPUk4sFE1_xcFeCTs7uELi-_2WjTLbQUC33lLdN9Twr8WNCY5kMT3fd60ZehCo30YAf8ia32qijtla6_eud1t5MHaPnYS8v26bCMQ2k3XJHvh8EGD3M8ZL7I8sh1N-f7tTRraWIj8fcTP5MRpO898lo5Yeh35U6nHnyNU7Fov1yvQqvVNipBnDedEpGCjtUbJA5VahCucQBvozFJygYernX8YiyZWY8D8TNHRQiV0EJqXaS3R-VYclOp9WDYDLvtm5HfkcBXuFsusiOPIht6g4kVF3VZ15hKQ_NBsGi5ykWD5PH1UdJYHKE-FVpuugevmrPNyFmZ5t43btdJSrepllV53kvVbgE-y84-x9sxbdSseXsvxmLAXcUwFOvQ0de3x6V6R0hHwBDT9ZtKop5tFUnG1VEum3Ox3yLaaRt1VFMEmaWxZyIJyL0goOW3LqUWfu1vd4Ge5tm2JXdHjAj885MyhCEvd5IAB0-0SFyo=w524-h926-no)
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: Granny Gremlin on July 06, 2016, 12:11:21 PM
 :toast:
Title: Re: Introduction, EB-4L, and some advice
Post by: Grog on July 06, 2016, 01:02:26 PM
Quote from: toddbooster on June 30, 2016, 12:26:23 PM
I had thought the saddles for these bridges were only nylon as well, but a little searching turned this up from the Two-Point Bass Bridge section at Fly Guitars http://www.flyguitars.com/gibson/bass/parts/bridge/2pointbridge.php (http://www.flyguitars.com/gibson/bass/parts/bridge/2pointbridge.php): "In 1972 the saddles were upgraded to metal (image 5), shortly before this bridge was replaced by the three point."

(http://www.flyguitars.com/graphics/part24_5.jpg)

Anyway, hopefully that means they are original.

My '72 EB-4L came with metal saddles, exactly like yours............ Long live the "Tilt-O-Matic" bridge!