The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Outpost Cafe => Topic started by: uwe on May 28, 2014, 09:42:52 AM
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Ok, stop laughing, I bought a (Deering) banjo for my son's birthday whose descent into the netherworld of Americana seems to be unstoppable, and now my stupid question is: How do you tune the darn (and heavy!, I had no idea they weighed a ton) thing? I know the standard tuning of these things is G D G B D top-down, but what octaves are we talking about?
The upper string (G), which (unlike all other strings) only starts at the fifth fret, where would that be on a guitar? Empty G string of a guitar?
And the second string (D) is obviously lower than the G on top of it, but where would that D be on a guitar? The empty D string of a guitar?
The G string in the middle, is that the same octave as the upper G-string?
Likewise, the B string is that the same octave as on a guitar?
And finally the D string (same gauge as the upper G string, but with five frets of a lower extension), that would - if fretted in the fifth fret - then have the same note as the upper G string, i.e. an octave higher than the Banjo lower D string (= upper E string of a guitar tuned two half-steps down?)?
This is all very embarrassing to ask, be gentle with me. And I thought I knew a lot about stringed instruments ... :-\
Uwe
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As always YouTube is your friend for question like these:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=banjo+tuning (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=banjo+tuning)
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You should take up mandolin and form a family band with him.
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My son is of the firm conviction that I "play too many thirds" and that root note, fifth and minor seventh is all a good (Blues) bass run needs. Well, at least he has now abducted my EB-2D because the Jazz Bass he had from me before (and returned) is too clear, "I want an E string that goes plop and doesn't really have a note".
He has already anounced how he wants to learn mandolin too. And he is already learning harmonica. Anything he does, he does excessively or not at all, he's been this way ever since he took his first breath in the hospital.
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The short string is an octave above the guitar G...I never really matched them up to a guitar, but I would think the lower d and the full length G and B would be the same, and the 1st string would be a D a whole tone lower than the 1st string on a guitar...the short string is the highest.
He'll need a couple National finger picks, and a medium National thumbpick. Get him a copy of Earl's method book, and a big CD compilation of the music of Flatt and Scruggs....(a personal favorite...I have to be the only CPA in the world with posters of BOTH John Entwistle AND Flatt and Scruggs on my office wall).
I don't have a standard guitar, but I do have 3 banjos...
He's a lucky kid...someday I would hope to be able to afford a Deering...(but you purchased wisely, a cheap banjo is not like a cheap acoustic guitar-i.e. there are plenty of plywood guitar Epi's and Alvarez's that sound fine to me...a cheap banjo really just sounds cheap)
P.S. Feel free to ask questions anytime...it's really a cool instrument...(soon he'll be trying to figure out how to cook collard greens and grits)
Pat
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Thanks, very helpful, I might have more questions in the future! I had no idea that a good banjo is about twice (and more) the price of a good guitar or a good bass. I was expecting to get away with something in the 800 bucks range. :-\ Sweet dreams ... Seeing it now, I can see how a lot of work goes into it, it's basically a tunable drum and a string instrument combined. And US made, but then a non-Yank banjo wouldn't have seemed right, you can buy a guitar or a bass from anywhere, but a banjo - a BANJO! - has to be from the Land of the Free (Trade Unions!), me thinks.
When I looked around for banjos, I pretty quickly ended up on the Deering site, for a comparatively newish company they have sure carved out their market well. They are a dedicated maker and do nothing else. And then, after some deliberation, I decided on the "seruious quality everything, but no frills or ornamentation"-model they offer (my son likes everything to look "toolish" anyway) and that was the maho (of course!) 5-string Sierra with resonator - the entry model to their professional line - which as luck would have it Thoman (German mailorder shop) had at a decent price. I don't think they sell a lot of banjos at this price.
(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0219/5272/products/sierra_large.jpeg?v=1380801637)
(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0219/5272/products/sierra-neck-pot_large.jpeg?v=1380801637)
(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0219/5272/products/sierra_back_large.jpeg?v=1380801637)
(http://images4.thomann.de/pics/bdb/269794/8263002_800.jpg)
I marvelled at the fact that a Deering top of the range banjo trades at 32.000 bucks!
http://www.deeringbanjos.com/collections/private-collection/products/gabriella-5-string-banjo
Or, if you care for "dinosaur mother of pearl" (Dont't you stomp on those shells, little T. Rex, they might be valuable one day!!!) twice that amount. :o
http://www.deeringbanjos.com/collections/private-collection/products/banjosaurus-long-neck
(http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0219/5272/products/banjosaurus_peghead_large.jpeg?v=1380801661)
I'm saving that for when he turns 100. :)
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The "collar" or tone ring (metal part that the head rests upon) is made like a bell...sand-cast brass or bronze (as I understand it, the mold is sand, and can only be used once) and hand machined and fitted to each shell...expensive process...asian banjos usually cheat on the metallurgy, thereby the inferior sound.
That's where the bell-like tone comes from-the combination of metals used, and the casting and fitting process. It takes skilled labor to build one...that's probably why Gibson stopped making them (ostensibly they stopped making banjos when the flood hit Nashville). The iconic bluegrass banjo that changed the world (Gibson Mastertone) was a Gibson invention from the mid 1920's or so. Earl Scruggs pretty much invented the three finger picking style known as bluegrass banjo.
A Sierra is a beautiful instrument.
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...and why do banjo songs have different titles?
So you can tell them apart.
:rimshot:
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...and why do banjo songs have different titles?
So you can tell them apart.
:rimshot:
:mrgreen:
Perfect pitch: tossing a banjo into the dumpster without hitting the sides.
:rimshot:
But seriously, nice banjo. I hope he loves it.
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Last banjo music I heard was the new CD by Steve Martin (the actor) and Edi Brickell (Mrs Paul Simon). It's pleasant, but hardly earthshaking though Herr Martin masters the instrument well.
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I know Neil Young and Jill Sobule use a "banjo" that is actually a guitar so that you get the sound but don't have to relearn the chord structure...
Did someone mention Steve "King Tut" Martin...? (the 2nd starts at around 3:20)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gNuj8UkyC4
www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoYW8r_LAFk
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Check out "The Imposter" by Bela Fleck, or "Appalachian Concerto" by Jens Kruger...
In the right hands the instrument can be both sophisticated and beautiful...
The Kruger Brothers are from Switzerland, and Bela is from Brooklyn. Bela was named for Bela Bartok.
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He didn't want a six string banjo, he wanted the 5-string real thing, he wants to relearn. I can understand that because it will no doubt be more inspiring as it will lead to all sorts of coincidences.
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The 6 string instrument is not a banjo. The 5 string configuration (with the short "chanter" under your thumb) allows all kinds of oddball things to happen that are not possible on the 6 string instrument.
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The 6 string instrument is not a banjo. The 5 string configuration (with the short "chanter" under your thumb) allows all kinds of oddball things to happen that are not possible on the 6 string instrument.
Right. It's a guitar with banjo strings. That might serve the purpose of someone who occasionally wants to add a little banjo sound on a song or two but if you want to learn to play a banjo, you buy a real banjo.
OTOH I suppose listening to Neil Young playing a 6-string "banjo" couldn't be any worse than having to listen to him sing or play guitar.
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Neil Young's electric guitar playing is an acquired taste/pushes boundaries (however you want to put it, I find it entertaining to watch if not always to listen to it), but he plays all other instruments (including acoustic guitar) with great discipline and even precision. It's only on the electric where the monster tears loose. If you want to hear a harmonica played like Neil Young plays electric guitar, you have to look somewhere else: Bob Dylan. :mrgreen:
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I've often wondered what sort of incriminating pictures or evidence Neil had that Crosby Stills and Nash would ever have let him join them. Must have been convincing.
Anyway, a friend sent me this today, I don't know why, but Leon should learn the banjo part. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PS0P7w4YCDI
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brilliant!
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Cute!
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They sing in key well not unlike Ms. Hoffs. Still, some shortcomings can be overlooked :rolleyes:
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I like the drum kit.
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I like the drum kit.
One un-mic'ed drum. Just as it should be.
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More fiddle than banjo, but I figured it would fit here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89C_PQ_kuUk
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That was a good movie gweimer. Hope your son likes Hee Haw Uwe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gw0fxuIvBM
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Playing banjo doesn't necessarily mean he wants to play music where banjo is the lead instrument. There's plenty of folk and rural music where banjo is an essential part but in the background.
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You can bet if Leon plays banjo, then it will be lead banjo! I know my son, he would love what these two guys do in that vid (and it is nice!). That scene in Deliverance where Jon Voight guitar-banjo duels with that poor product of umpteenth generation Redneck incest actually set him off on the whole banjo thing.
He used to hold it against me that he wasn't born in time in Southern California to join Guns & Roses in the 80ies. Later, it was just a grudge that he wasn't born blind and black in a shack in the Mississppi Delta sometime in the 20ies of the last century. I am now bracing myself for the accusation why I as well as my ancestors did not mate more frequently with our siblings, our parents and our blighted offspring in the Appalachians ...
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Dueling banjos in the movie (the music) was from Eric Weisberg...from New York City...
I think he had a degree in Double-bass from Julliard.
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You can bet if Leon plays banjo, then it will be lead banjo! I know my son, he would love what these two guys do in that vid (and it is nice!). That scene in Deliverance where Jon Voight guitar-banjo duels with that poor product of umpteenth generation Redneck incest actually set him off on the whole banjo thing.
...
Lord help us.
Dueling banjos in the movie (the music) was from Eric Weisberg...from New York City...
....
True, but the song was stolen from Arthur Smith, who successfully sued. Don Reno played banjo on the 1955 original (Feudin' Banjos).
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You can bet if Leon plays banjo, then it will be lead banjo! I know my son, he would love what these two guys do in that vid (and it is nice!). That scene in Deliverance where Jon Voight guitar-banjo duels with that poor product of umpteenth generation Redneck incest actually set him off on the whole banjo thing.
He used to hold it against me that he wasn't born in time in Southern California to join Guns & Roses in the 80ies. Later, it was just a grudge that he wasn't born blind and black in a shack in the Mississppi Delta sometime in the 20ies of the last century. I am now bracing myself for the accusation why I as well as my ancestors did not mate more frequently with our siblings, our parents and our blighted offspring in the Appalachians ...
He's going to need at least one pair of Bib'alls (overalls) to be authentic. The last time I looked there was exactly one manufacturer of bib overalls in America - Round House: http://www.round-house.com/collections/round-house-made-in-usa-bib-overalls . I love mine although the wife and daughter refuse to be seen in public with me when I wear them :-[ I prefer the true style of the Hickory Stripe fabric myself ;)
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I read where Don Reno never got anything from the music used in the movie...I have a tab of his original recording, and it is wicked hard to play.
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Why would he? Sure, he had his own distinctive style, but he didn't write the music.
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Well...the actual "tune" is pretty simple...sort of a Yankee Doodle variation...
What is remembered is Don Reno's hard charging interpretation (at least to me)...
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He's going to need at least one pair of Bib'alls (overalls) to be authentic. The last time I looked there was exactly one manufacturer of bib overalls in America - Round House: http://www.round-house.com/collections/round-house-made-in-usa-bib-overalls . I love mine although the wife and daughter refuse to be seen in public with me when I wear them :-[ I prefer the true style of the Hickory Stripe fabric myself ;)
Waaaal naow podner, if you wanna be hysterically akkurate, y'all needs Big Macs. I like them stripes myownself. They's right nice.
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Well...the actual "tune" is pretty simple...sort of a Yankee Doodle variation...
What is remembered is Don Reno's hard charging interpretation (at least to me)...
Regardless, he didn't write the song. Arthur Smith did. You don't get royalties for your interpretation of a song written by someone else.
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He's going to need at least one pair of Bib'alls (overalls) to be authentic. The last time I looked there was exactly one manufacturer of bib overalls in America - Round House: http://www.round-house.com/collections/round-house-made-in-usa-bib-overalls . I love mine although the wife and daughter refuse to be seen in public with me when I wear them :-[ I prefer the true style of the Hickory Stripe fabric myself ;)
He'll wear them too. With no top and nothing underneath of course. Working man's assless chaps.
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He'll wear them too. With no top and nothing underneath of course. Working man's assless chaps.
Just the way the hippies did it in the 60's.
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No overalls here, but hippies exist past the 60's. How bout some Oteil on banjo bass?
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uHQjBbwTzdk
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https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/d45f811ddf3d
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Ok, stop laughing, I bought a (Deering) banjo for my son's birthday whose descent into the netherworld of Americana seems to be unstoppable, and now my stupid question is: How do you tune the darn (and heavy!, I had no idea they weighed a ton) thing? I know the standard tuning of these things is G D G B D top-down, but what octaves are we talking about?
The upper string (G), which (unlike all other strings) only starts at the fifth fret, where would that be on a guitar? Empty G string of a guitar?
And the second string (D) is obviously lower than the G on top of it, but where would that D be on a guitar? The empty D string of a guitar?
The G string in the middle, is that the same octave as the upper G-string?
Likewise, the B string is that the same octave as on a guitar?
And finally the D string (same gauge as the upper G string, but with five frets of a lower extension), that would - if fretted in the fifth fret - then have the same note as the upper G string, i.e. an octave higher than the Banjo lower D string (= upper E string of a guitar tuned two half-steps down?)?
This is all very embarrassing to ask, be gentle with me. And I thought I knew a lot about stringed instruments ... :-\
Uwe
Jeeez.....It seems we could have won WWII By simply dropping planefulls of BANJOS on Germany?
Who would of thought?
....Just rent a copy of "Deliverance" if you need to figure out the banjo. :)
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They are certainly heavy enough to have caused serious damage!
It took me a while to realize that the "lower" four strings of a banjo are nothing but the lower 4 strings of a guitar except that the high E is dropped a note to D. D-uh!
I miss it. Honestly. I really dug the way the drum skin vibrated against your palm when you played notes on it. That was a sensual experience. :-X My son now says that he finds the tension of guitar strings and the width of guitar necks distracting.
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I had a banjo years ago that I was getting OK on. In had bought it in my prog rock days when I played with an electric violin player...for use to try different things with on a side acoustic project. Appropriately, I lost it in a house fire. Satan apparently wanted his invention back :)
But I can honestly say that I STILL sometimes use a banjo "claw" picking technique sometimes on certain bass lines that would be harder to play otherwise.
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I hear these guys may be looking for a second banjo player.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SleYHOcLjOg
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Not surprising - they look a little long in the canines. ;D