The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: Dave W on November 22, 2023, 11:31:04 PM
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Gibson Thunderbird II (Previously Owned by Johnny Winter) Sunburst 1965 (https://www.chicagomusicexchange.com/products/gibson-thunderbird-ii-previously-owned-by-johnny-winter-1911864)
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Now that IS history!
Who knows, Rick Derringer might have played it when he was stepping in as Johnny's and Cozy Powell's session help-out bassist when the two were playing together thinking of forming a power trio after Cozy had left the Jeff Beck Group. Powell wanted Derringer to stay as a bassist on a permanent basis, but the latter didn't want to give up guitar playing so nothing further ever came of it.
Johnny sure liked Ray Dietrich's design given his lifelong affiliation with the Firebird/Thunderbird shape. Other than perhaps Phil Manzanera of Roxy Music, I can't think of another name rock guitarist who played the Firebird as consistently for years and years and years. Kind of strange, given how beautiful and iconic the shape is and how no other popular guitar model featured a neck-thru construction. Then again, it figures, guitarists just don't know what's good.
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Firebirds sound better than standard humbucker equipped Gibsons, IMHO, but feel weird, massive and unnecessarily large, with all that barren land behind the tailpiece, and the bridge is stuck 60% up the body pushing the neck forward. Its overall length is 5" more than a Tele and 3.5" more than a Les Paul. So you get better upper fret access, but at the price of your left hand being stretched out to almost where it would be on a bass.
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It was a mistake to allow someone who collects Höfners contribute freely on Gibson issues. :mrgreen:
But you're right, Ilan, ergonomics might play a role especially for not so tall/long-armed players. Guitarists also seem to be totally oblivious to the allure of a neck-thru construction.
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It was a mistake to allow someone who collects Höfners contribute freely on Gibson issues. :mrgreen:
I still own more vintage Fenders than I do Hofners, you know. I've thinned the Hofner herd down to 4 basses (500/3, 500/8, Verithin, 182) and one guitar (Senator Thinline E1).
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I don’t understand the argument, Ilan, replacing the terrible with the plain horrible, going from bad to worse? 8)
A collection of abolt-oninations? :rolleyes:
PS: … with all that barren land behind the tailpiece … Now don’t get ideas! You know how these end. ;)
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Johnny Winter gives me the ick.
(https://www.wallofsoundgallery.com/immagini_prodotti/big/3149.jpg)
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Why? Because he was a very raw, wild and busy blues player with note explosions on the fretboard? I probably couldn't listen all day to him, but in reasonable dosages he was a compelling performer.
Aaand Blackmore appreciated him - which should stop any further criticism dead in its tracks. :mrgreen:
Or because of his albino (Is that still an allowed term or do you have to say "person suffering from albinism"?) features? While I fully understand that it is a serious genetic anomaly you wouldn't choose voluntarily for yourself, back in the 70ies I thought Johnny and Edgar always looked très cool together.
(https://i.pinimg.com/474x/57/70/be/5770be33d228d5469a275d9fd34d47e5.jpg)
And I always assumed that The Twins in Matrix Reloaded were a tongue in cheek-tribute to the iconic look of the Winter Brothers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdQ8wBiEtGw&t=12s
When I lived in Zaire in the 70ies, albinos were somehow not an infrequent sight (or maybe they just stood out more, but there was hardly a day when you would not see one) among the Bantu population which had migrated there over the centuries (I never saw one with the indigenous Pigmy People who were the original inhabitants of the Congo). Not an easy fate. Apart from the affiliated health issues, they were often either shunned by their communities or perceived to have magical powers to the extent of their lives being endangered by attempts to sacrifice them for ritual purposes.
(https://www.unicef.de/_cae/resource/blob/37022/57d6ae3546d64bf634de65dbc4fb0ad3/7-patricia-willocq-dsc08044-1000-jpg-data.jpg)
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Or because of his albino (Is that still an allowed term or do you have to say "person suffering from albinism"?) features? While I fully understand that it is a serious genetic anomaly you wouldn't choose voluntarily for yourself, back in the 70ies I thought Johnny and Edgar always looked très cool together.
Pigmentally challenged?
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You're calling me challenged?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Snowflake_-_Barcelona_Zoo_White_Gorilla4.jpg)
(The above Western Lowland Gorilla called Snowflake lived for nearly 40 years in the Barcelona Zoo. His eyesight wasn't great, but more seriously he had to be eventually put down in 2003 when skin cancer - a consequence of his genetic condition - got him late in his years and he began to suffer from it. His albinism, however, neither hurt his social life with other non-albino gorillas nor his fertility: He had 22 children with three wives and 21 grandchildren. I give you "challenged"! :mrgreen: )
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Young Edgar (left) and Johnny in Beaumont. Proof that Johnny didn't always play a Firebird.
(https://www.tdpri.com/attachments/402912416_7209960242349376_4775441896016889587_n-jpg.1186144/)
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You're calling me challenged?
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4d/Snowflake_-_Barcelona_Zoo_White_Gorilla4.jpg)
(The above Western Lowland Gorilla called Snowflake lived for nearly 40 years in the Barcelona Zoo. His eyesight wasn't great, but more seriously he had to be eventually put down in 2003 when skin cancer - a consequence of his genetic condition - got him late in his years and he began to suffer from it. His albinism, however, neither hurt his social life with other non-albino gorillas nor his fertility: He had 22 children with three wives and 21 grandchildren. I give you "challenged"! :mrgreen: )
Most impressive! I guess the chicks there dug the exotic guy.
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He also appealed to their more maternal instincts I think. It’s sorta like revealing on a first date: "You know, I’m different from the other guys, I’m really a leftie, but I compensate a lot." That really disarms them and heightens curiosity.
(inquisitively) How do you handle it? ;D
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Young Edgar (left) and Johnny in Beaumont. Proof that Johnny didn't always play a Firebird.
(https://www.tdpri.com/attachments/402912416_7209960242349376_4775441896016889587_n-jpg.1186144/)
I’m not gonna spoil your argument and state that this is pre-1963 and no Firebirds existed then. That would be a real cheap shot. 8)
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I’m not gonna spoil your argument and state that this is pre-1963 and no Firebirds existed then. That would be a real cheap shot. 8)
KBMT in Beaumont launched in 1954. Johnny was 10 then, Edgar 8. The picture must have been taken soon after that.
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He also appealed to their more maternal instincts I think. It’s sorta like revealing on a first date: "You know, I’m different from the other guys, I’m really a leftie, but I compensate a lot." That really disarms them and heightens curiosity.
(inquisitively) How do you handle it? ;D
I shouldn't have been drinking my coffee when I read that. ;D
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Why? Because he was a very raw, wild and busy blues player with note explosions on the fretboard? I probably couldn't listen all day to him, but in reasonable dosages he was a compelling performer.
More the gaunt, sweaty androgyny, I think. I find his guitar tone a bit thin and grating, but his musicianship isn't up for debate! I'm wary of any guitarist from that era who is that keen to get their top off. :mrgreen:
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I actually liked his non-treble-cut, percussive and 'wiry' sound - kinda like Rory Gallagher. There were enough other guys that sounded all creamy and sustainy.
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More the gaunt, sweaty androgyny, I think. I find his guitar tone a bit thin and grating, but his musicianship isn't up for debate! I'm wary of any guitarist from that era who is that keen to get their top off. :mrgreen:
Androgyny? I don't think so! He was always frail, but not androgynous. I doubt his longtime girlfriend (later wife) thought so either, she was with him for over 40 years.
Speaking of her, I wonder if this is still ongoing: Battle for late Johnny Winter’s music to play out in court (https://apnews.com/article/johnny-winter-lawsuit-estate-music-rights-d02ecbc4fde386298d5e6d342f4828e8)
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I actually liked his non-treble-cut, percussive and 'wiry' sound - kinda like Rory Gallagher. There were enough other guys that sounded all creamy and sustainy.
Tony McPhee of the Groundhogs had that sound. Sizzly, wire snapping against frets through to blistering fuzz.
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Androgyny? I don't think so! He was always frail, but not androgynous. I doubt his longtime girlfriend (later wife) thought so either, she was with him for over 40 years.
Speaking of her, I wonder if this is still ongoing: Battle for late Johnny Winter’s music to play out in court (https://apnews.com/article/johnny-winter-lawsuit-estate-music-rights-d02ecbc4fde386298d5e6d342f4828e8)
I think I know what our Scotsman was aiming at. "Androgynous" ain‘t perhaps the right word, but the mix of heroin-chic gaunt features, albinism, long wispy hair and glam'ish outfits (seemingly inspired by his little brother) in the 70ies sometimes gave Johnny that otherworldly, alien'esque appearance, sort of like Jeremy Irons as the Morlock Chief in that otherwise pretty horrible and best forgotten 'The Time Machine' remake.
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMjk3YmNkYjUtNDU0Zi00YmY0LTgxMWEtMDk2YzlmMTA0NmU3XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNDcxMTk4Mzc@._V1_.jpg)
As regards the ongoing litigation: Is that all he left in assets? There won't be much left then after litigation costs have been subtracted. Johnny's diminishing commercial returns once the 70ies were over (and he was no longer an arena act) coupled with his decade-long substance abuse, no proper record company (once CBS/Epic dropped him) and a lousy to criminal management that kept him drugged for many years made themselves painfully felt then.
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As regards the ongoing litigation: Is that all he left in assets? There won't be much left then after litigation costs have been subtracted. Johnny's diminishing commercial returns once the 70ies were over (and he was no longer an arena act) coupled with his decade-long substance abuse, no proper record company (once CBS/Epic dropped him) and a lousy to criminal management that kept him drugged for many years made themselves painfully felt then.
Hard to tell. It's not clear from the articles I've read. and it may be years before it's sorted out. Whatever is left, it ought to be more.