The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: lowend1 on November 18, 2008, 05:25:52 AM
-
I recently acquired one (Black Gibson RI variety) and was thinking of using it in an ongoing project bass. How different are these from the pickups in my '76 T-Bird? Is it better suited (all things considered) to the bridge or "middle position? Would it be acceptable as a single pickup in the "sweet spot" ala Music Man?
T'anks!
-
You've just opened the Pandora's Box and everyone will be going through the motions of restating what they habitually say. There are three opinions:
- New TB Plus pups sound crap, sixties and Bicentennial pups rule.
- New TB Plus pups just look crap, but sound almost as good as the old ones.
- Had today's TB Plus pups been available as an aftermarket replacement in the sixties and seventies, people would have killed for them.
I adhere to the latter school of thought, but am a minority here in this respect. To me, the TB Plus pup is one of the best passive bass pups available today. It has modern high output without sounding overblown, it can take a real beating string-input-wise without compressing or distorting, yet it never sounds sterile. If a Jazz Bass is your dream sound, you might find it too dark though. It sounds fuller and with more torque than any of its predecessors which generally have more overdrive to them and compress more if you play real hard (which is what many here prefer). I find it closer in sound to a sixties pup than to a Bicentennial which will forever have a slight single coil characteristic to it in my ears (which I like too, just not all the time) which I don't hear with the TB Plus.
One thing it is not: A great bridge pup. It needs the strings to swing so anything between P Bass (not Musicman) position and right behind the neck goes. In the latter position the ooomph is magic, yet you still have a signal that can be heard rather than felt.
-
I own a 68 Non Reverse and a 70's Tbird pickup equipped Fenderbird and I hate to say I favor my modern TB equipped les Paul's sound over all of them. All sound great, but if I had to pick one as my one & only out of the three it would be my LP. Sorry.
It does everything great and it far more versatile sound wise.
-
Must admit I really enjoy my T-bird +. I can compare it to the '60s pickups om my two Epiphone Embassy basses, and the '65 T-bird pup I've put in a Lotus bass. When I got a '70s Ripper without pups, I throw in a T-bird + in it. Same position as the old Ripper pups. That is my main bass, nowadays. Gives me everything from cotton to chain saw sound. Yep, one hell of a pickup!
-
The TB+s sound fantastic, and given the cost alone of those used (<$100) vs. a 60s or 70s pickup (2-300?), I would be inclined to go that route for a project bass. I have one waiting patiently for the elusive BachBird species (seen only in captivity...). Based on my experiences with the Elitist tbird, I think one TB+ in the "sweet spot" will do me proud on the new hatchling.
One caveat - didn't someone try them in a other-than-mahogany (maple?) bass and find they were too bright/brash sounding (remembering a conversation back at DP)? Stjofön's Ripper would be maple though... ??? Anyway... If there is any validity to that, it may be something to consider when planning a project bass.
-
I've said it before, that I don't mind the sound of TB plus pickups, it's the black plastic that I don't care for. Gibson really should step ont of their 1980's black hardware only option for Thunderbirds, it would be a most refreshing change.
-
The patient here is my Frankenstein P-Bass, which started life as a Squier P-Bass Special. The body is agathis and the neck is an SX J-Bass. I want to replace the Jazz bridge p/u with the TB+ - a "P-Bird" if you will.
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y247/lowend1/greenmonster.jpg)
-
I think it'll be interesting to hear a soundclip of that bass when your work is done!
-
All Tbird pickups are blade-type pickups? What is the impedance on those?
-
I think it'll be interesting to hear a soundclip of that bass when your work is done!
BTW, Mark, the guy I got this pickup from has 2 T-Birds - one was a mangled but functional Bicentennial that allegedly belonged to Gene Simmons, and the other was a Blackbird that had been beautifully refinished in lavender sparkle - the paint flakes were HUGE, like an old Schwinn Stingray seat. It had your name written all over it.
-
Whoa! Sounds cool.............If only I were a wealthy German Law Talkin' Guy ;)
-
other was a Blackbird that had been beautifully refinished in lavender sparkle - the paint flakes were HUGE, like an old Schwinn Stingray seat. It had your name written all over it.
Any pics?
-
Not at the moment - I really should get back over to him and take a couple shots. He told me he had it redone to give to his daughter when she got older.
-
All Tbird pickups are blade-type pickups? What is the impedance on those?
They're all blade type but they're not the same.
current issue: steel blades with magnet below
60s: the blades are the magnets
70s: sidewinder coils with blade
I don't know the various resistance readings.
-
Thank you dave, precious information!
I found that on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibson-Thunderbird-Bass-Guitar-Pickup-Rhythm-Black_W0QQitemZ370108542190QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar_Accessories?hash=item370108542190&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205 (I don't know if this is original). If you look at the second picture (the underside of the pickup) it looks rather narrow, kinda like a normal blade humbucker for guitar like this one http://www.diyguitars.net/pictures/artec/HXTNA-BK-1.jpg. Could that be the case? Has anyone measure this?
Also the same seller has those http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibson-Thunderbird-TB-Bass-Guitar-Treble-Pickup_W0QQitemZ110313748214QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuitar_Accessories?hash=item110313748214&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205 what exactly are those pickups? TB plus for Les Paul bass maybe? Or fake?
-
The black pickup looks like the one I have - and I believe Mark has posted pix of one of his that looks that way also, so I'm inclined to think that its on the level. (I think he also had one with an odd staggered coil setup, FWIW)
-
what exactly are those pickups? TB plus for Les Paul bass maybe? Or fake?
Those are the Les Paul type TB+ pups. I have a pair on my Fenderbird.
I agree with Uwe that these are some of the best sounding pups you can get, passive or otherwise. Those and the current Ric high gains. Tone, dynamics, and power!
-
There are three versions of the TB Plus pup:
- the classic black plastic soapbar most people don't like the looks of here which sometimes crops up in chrome versions too,
- the guitar humbucker size chrome cap ones featured in the auction and on Les Paul Standard Basses, the EB 650 and the shortlived Les Paul Doublecut/Money basses (where there was a gold version available for the rootbeer fin Doublecut) as well as probably on the Epi Elitist Birds (where I have also seen a black version) and, finally,
- the "mock"bucker at the neck position of an SG RI, hidden there underneath the chrome cover.
The guitar humbucker size ones sound sharper and more aggressive - to an extent where I find their sound a little grating on an all maple bass such as the EB 650 (they do fine work on the Les Paul basses). I've noticed that Stjofön has made a different experience on his Ripper, but perhaps that had an alder body or he used the soapbar version?
If you are adamant to put that TBird Plus pup in the place of the current JB pup (my personal opinion: it should replace the split coil or go Mel Schacher/Billy Sheehan style behind the neck), I think you will be better served with the guitar size chrome version if you want a real raucuous sound and with the black plastic soapbar one for a more subdued sound.
Uwe
-
If you are adamant to put that TBird Plus pup in the place of the current JB pup (my personal opinion: it should replace the split coil or go Mel Schacher/Billy Sheehan style behind the neck), I think you will be better served with the guitar size chrome version if you want a real raucuous sound and with the black plastic soapbar one for a more subdued sound.
What I'm trying to do is to be able to access the Fender and T-Bird "core" tone with the same bass, and to be able to switch between and blend both. Since the soapbar is a little darker sounding by nature, wouldn't it benefit from being up near the bridge for some increased treble?
-
Understood, but the core tone of any Gibson bass is more determined by the front pup than by arear one whereas a JB singlecoil in the rear still sounds determinative Fender. What you should probably do is a Ric pup for the rear, a split coil for the middle and a TB Plus for the neck - you'd then have the "determinative" sounding pups of three classic basses!
I just checked a couple of my basses with TB Plus pups and even one with a JB pup (the Q-90 as all my Fenders are at home, not in the office). Irrespective of whether you chose the guitar size humbucker or the soapbar, you'll have more mids and bass at the rear position than with a JB pup, the guitar size humbucker will just be louder. But retaining the split coil will not give you the "warm cushion of bass" a TB Plus in the same middle position would. That said, trial is the father of all positve experience so do as intended!
Uwe
-
Not that my two cents is needed, but I've compared my own modern t-bird (bought new last year) with a '76 and I preferred the TB+ pickups. They had a more stout presence and a little brighter overall, to my ears. I really agree with an earlier assessment though, fundamentally they were the same feel with different nuances.
-
Well, I had my tech put the TB+ in place of the Jazz, and we found out a couple of interesting things. First, the pickup works, but it is noisy. It hums unless you roll the tone back, and the tech thinks it might be that it's running as a single coil (the hum changes as you move around, but not when your hand is off or on the strings). Kinda like one coil is shorted. It doesn't seem to lack for power though. Second, when both the TB+ and the split P are engaged, they are out of phase with each other. Weird. Hey, it was used and cheap!
So how does it sound... Pretty darn good, actually. The split P and the TB+ couldn't be more different. When you switch back and forth, it's like having two different basses (so in that respect we succeeded). A very gutsy midrange - what those cork-sniffing bass mags often refer to as "burpy" mids. It also seems to react quite differently from amp to amp - in some cases to a degree I didn't expect.
Overall, I like it, but the phase thing bugs me a little bit -- mainly because the OOP sound is pretty much useless. I haven't taken any pics yet, but it looks great - and no, I haven't done any sound clips yet, either. We'll have to see how it fits into the arsenal. For comparison, I scoped out some other passive soapbar type bass pickups with similar dimensions, and there are a few to choose from - the Bartolini T-Bird thingie, SD, EMG HZ, even Mighty Mite (although I can't find a dealer near me). Based on descriptions alone, I'd probably head for the Bart or the Duncan, but I've had no experience with either model, so if anybody has a .02 contribution here, I'm listening.
BTW - has anybody ever had to repair one of these? Mark, I know you peeled one or two awhile back - are these things completely loaded with polymer?
-
"BTW - has anybody ever had to repair one of these? Mark, I know you peeled one or two awhile back - are these things completely loaded with polymer?"
Yes they are.................I doubt you can do anything, they are quite solidly potted.........wish I was :rolleyes:
-
That's the one drawback about the TB+ pups - they're strangely noisy for an alleged humbucker. Both my LP and my Fenderbird have a pretty loud buzz, depending on your orientation to the amp (or the computer monitor). Way more than any of my single coil basses (Rickenbackers). Kind of a drag. I have a session tomorrow, and I'm going to try to use the F-Bird, but I'm bringing my Duncan equipped 5 string Guild Pilot just in case the engineer can't take the noise.
As far as your out of phase issue - personally, I wouldn't worry about it. You say it sounds like two different basses depending on which pup you use. That's great! It is what it is, enjoy it! I found the same thing with the aforementioned 5 string. A few years ago I routed the bridge pup area to fit a dual coil soapbar. Neck pup sounds great - very P bass-ish. Soapbar sounds great with a StringRay vibe. But together, they don't really compliment each other. It's pretty much one or the other. Oh well! ;D
-
Even the quiet ones aren't that quiet for a humbucker, but some are very noisy and for no good reason. I passed on buying a late-90s Bird about 7-8 years ago for that reason. Everything checked out, it was properly grounded, the ground was connected to the shielding, the pickups' resistance readings were normal, but it was buzzy as hell. Bargain priced but I didn't want to deal with getting replacement pickups.
-
That's very good to know. Thanks all!
I will make an effort to post some sounds when I get time.
Also, if this thread is heading too far out of Gibson territory, feel free to relocate.