The Last Bass Outpost
Gear Discussion Forums => Gibson Basses => Topic started by: Dave W on February 22, 2012, 08:43:01 AM
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Posting this here since the Gibson raid is the source of our interest. Please, let's avoid making this a political discussion.
Bill introduced to de-criminalize the Lacey Act (http://www.pointoflaw.com/archives/2012/02/bill-introduced-to-de-criminalize-the-lacey-act.php) and remove any reference to "foreign law." IMHO this would be a good thing. No idea yet if it will have a chance of passing.
Lacey Act update and how it affects you (http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=35405)
This is from an acoustic guitar builders' forum. Don't know the OP but he seems well informed. If nothing else, it shows the kind of pitfalls a builder needs to be concerned with as the law is presently being enforced. It also mentions a different bill which would provide some relief.
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Posting this here since the Gibson raid is the source of our interest. Please, let's avoid making this a political discussion.
Bill introduced to de-criminalize the Lacey Act (http://www.pointoflaw.com/archives/2012/02/bill-introduced-to-de-criminalize-the-lacey-act.php) and remove any reference to "foreign law." IMHO this would be a good thing. No idea yet if it will have a chance of passing.
Lacey Act update and how it affects you (http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=35405)
This is from an acoustic guitar builders' forum. Don't know the OP but he seems well informed. If nothing else, it shows the kind of pitfalls a builder needs to be concerned with as the law is presently being enforced. It also mentions a different bill which would provide some relief.
I read that Henry J. tried to have it amened to the "Cagney & Lacey Act" and allow lesbians to bring in ANY foreign wood....but the Russian mob objected to "lesbians" and "wood" being mentioned in any bill and said it would negatively affect all the young Russin girls working in the U.S. Apparently the DC politicians agreed.
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I read that Henry J. tried to have it amened to the "Cagney & Lacey Act" and allow lesbians to bring in ANY foreign wood....but the Russian mob objected to "lesbians" and "wood" being mentioned in any bill and said it would negatively affect all the young Russina girls working in the U.S. Apparently the DC politicians agreed.
You forgot the :rimshot:
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This seemed to be the most recent thread on this, so...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/12/gibson-guitar-case-drags-on-with-no-sign-criminal-charges/?test=latestnews
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This seemed to be the most recent thread on this, so...
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/12/gibson-guitar-case-drags-on-with-no-sign-criminal-charges/?test=latestnews
Mukasey of all people should know how long federal cases sometimes take before a decision to charge or not is reached. Especially white-collar cases. I just read about a mortgage fraud case here, one of the defendants pled guilty last month to fraud committed between 2005 and 2008. She wasn't indicted until last fall.
It's not right and I hope Gibson's case doesn't take that long to resolve but it often happens that way.
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Its tough on where to draw a line on where to decriminalize it. I think there should still be stiff penalties where it comes to endangered wildlife.
The Black Rhino now officially considered extinct.
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-10/africa/world_africa_rhino-extinct-species-report_1_white-rhino-black-rhino-extinction?_s=PM:AFRICA
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Given that 41 Native American people just achieved a settlement for 1 billion bucks from the US Treasury in the wake of tribe, no class actions 100 (!) years old, white man Henry is not doing too bad. Yet. Think of how much all that confiscated ebony and rosewood will be worth upon release in a century from now, by then well dry-aged too.
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Its tough on where to draw a line on where to decriminalize it. I think there should still be stiff penalties where it comes to endangered wildlife.
The Black Rhino now officially considered extinct.
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-10/africa/world_africa_rhino-extinct-species-report_1_white-rhino-black-rhino-extinction?_s=PM:AFRICA
These trees aren't going to become extinct.
No matter how Gibson's situation has been misrepresented, the regulations in India that led to last year's raids aren't about conservation anyway. If the trees were endangered, India wouldn't allow unprocessed rosewood veneer to be exported.
The regulations were about value added by manufacturing in India. It's a type of protectionist measure. You can import Indian rosewood (thicker than veneer) if there's some manufacturing done to it in India. The seized wood was just rough sawn boards. Henry even referred to them as his raw materials.
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Given that 41 Native American people just achieved a settlement for 1 billion bucks from the US Treasury in the wake of tribe, no class actions 100 (!) years old, white man Henry is not doing too bad. Yet. Think of how much all that confiscated ebony and rosewood will be worth upon release in a century from now, by then well dry-aged too.
A century from now they will still be Indian rosewood and ebony, the same fretboard woods that were considered inferior less than 20 years ago.
You can still buy Gaboon or Macassar ebony or Pau Ferro, most luthiers consider them easily superior to the Indian woods. Why isn't Gibson using these instead of "baked maple" and other exotic woods no one in the guitar community has heard of before? Why haven't any of the political commentators pointed this out? Because they don't know shit from Shinola about guitars, they only know political opportunism.
Henry is right about factories in Asia using the Indian woods, though. He's saying this to point out that the enforcement actions against Gibson are unreasonable, and he has the right to say that. But those factories are using those woods because they're cheap! You want to keep your reputation as a premier American brand, why are you pointing out that the Chinese are using the same woods? Why aren't you using better woods?
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Pau Ferro is nice - the SG-Z had it. My new Explorer has a baked maple fretboard, hope it doesn't shrink so much in our dry climate and have the bass get all spiky. The newisch TB IV with the Preciosa fingerboard has become nearly unplayable, it shrunk so much so fast. Have to take it to the luthier to have the fretends filed down.
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Too bad about your experience with the Preciosa. I wonder if others have had the problem.
The alternatives they're using now aren't necessarily bad, it just rankles me that Henry is going around talking like the relatively cheap Indian woods are essential. They're not.
Everything is built to a price point, however low or high. Gibson is no different. But I would expect them to pay the price for premium woods, especially considering how their overall prices have risen..
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/18/law-could-be-used-to-seize-musicians-guitars-may-need-fix-senator-says/
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/05/18/law-could-be-used-to-seize-musicians-guitars-may-need-fix-senator-says/
Nothing new about that. Fish & Wildlife has already made it clear that they're not targeting musicians. Alexander is trying to stir up trouble over a non-issue.
The Lacey Act is about trafficking in illegal raw material. The feds have not used the act to target finished products that have already been bought at retail.
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The Lacey Act was originally intended to protect wildlife as Ted Nugent recently discovered:
http://www.lsonews.com/hunting-news/2127-edited-for-web-by-conor-harrison
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this comes on the heals of a little 'meeting' nugent had with secret servive agents over some remarks he made in a recent speech. btw, isn't the responsible hunter supposed to track wounded game and finish it. ted figured that was too hard so he would just shoot something else. whadda guy, >:(. my total disdain for him runs deep...
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I'm not anti-hunting and I've forgiven the Nuge some of the inanest comments in the past, but this here is disturbing to watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXe5JdQGb0Y
Anybody getting into that state of arousal ("I hear it moan!!!") about killing something should maybe have his hunting license taken away and take up knitting. Poor bear too. What a great, chivalrous huntsman Herr Nugent is, following its trail through the wilderness for days on foot, preying on it for hours before ... shooting it with his hi-tech bow before a huge plastic can with bait. My hero. All so natural. :puke:
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I have a huge problem with killing for entertainment, or amusement. This is my own personal problem...I 'm not trying to start a shit storm. If I'm starving, it's a different story.
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Innocent bears and idiot-Detroiters aside, I read an article on Henry J in a German newspaper on the weekend ("The man who saved Gibson") which shed a bit more light on him:
He was born 1953 in Argentina, son of a former Polish officer who had been a longtime POW in German WW II captivity (so that is why I never got that doubleneck ... :mrgreen: ). The family moved to the US (Rochester, NY) subsequently (Henry had a brother too) and Henry became an (electronics) engineer with GM in Flint, MI, before eventually qualifying for a GM Harvard fellowship which would lead him into the investment banking world and there, more specifically, restructuring broke companies.
I didn't know he was a first generation immigrant. Nor that he had an engineering background. It probably explains a little bit how he ticks. The electronics background certainly lends some credibility to his enthusiasm for the Firebird X.
The article was also interesting for how Gibson became part of Norlin: Initially, Gibson sought the contact of Norlin as an industrial player to gain access to raw materials which were hard to come by as a guitar maker in WW II. Dependability on Norlin became such, they took Gibson over eventually.
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I have a huge problem with killing for entertainment, or amusement. This is my own personal problem...I 'm not trying to start a shit storm. If I'm starving, it's a different story.
Neither am I. I like bears so seeing one of them killed is not a pretty sight for me (I admit that the killing of predators in general pains me more than that of plant eaters which is certainly not fair to the latter), but I guess there are circumstances where a bear has to be or may be killed. And I even understand that a hunter derives satisfaction from a "kill", but gloating like this? I've been to a hunt as a passive guest, but did not experience something like that. Those among us who hunt: Is Nugent's reaction normal? Not that much with him is.
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I'm not anti-hunting and I've forgiven the Nuge some of the inanest comments in the past, but this here is disturbing to watch:
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Anybody getting into that state of arousal ("I hear it moan!!!") about killing something should maybe have his hunting license taken away and take up knitting. Poor bear too. What a great, chivalrous huntsman Herr Nugent is, following its trail through the wilderness for days on foot, preying on it for hours before ... shooting it with his hi-tech bow before a huge plastic can with bait. My hero. All so natural. :puke:
That is just sick.
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I'm not anti-hunting, but I see no point in trophy or rug hunting. I think videos like this do the hunters' cause more damage than good.
Gloating and rejoicing over the death of an animal is not appropriate - unless perhaps it's one that has been attacking people.
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sick bastard, indeed. why did you post that clip? i wish you would delete it.
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Hunting for food is something I accept as part of nature...
A compound bow is a lethal weapon and the type of arrow-head used by TN in that video (and most American compound-bow hunters) is banned over here...
My, what a big, brave man you are, Mr Nugent...
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Here in the midwest, sometimes I feel pretty alone in my disdain for sport hunting. It truly makes me feel better to know I am not alone.
Music and musicians are generally about trying to make the world a more beautiful place...not about death and destruction.
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sick bastard, indeed. why did you post that clip? i wish you would delete it.
Because it deserves to be seen for exposing him as what he is. A darn sadist. The creature is in pain ("Make sure I disconnect the pump station and kill that critter clean ..." my ass >:( ). and he wets himself in enjoyment. If I didn't know better, I would say this is something Michael Moore must have staged, it's so way over the top (and at the same time below most human standards). But Nugent shows it on his own TV show. The mind boggles.
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as i stated before i distain hunting for any reason but am a gun owner. my view on hunting is that you snuff out millions of years of animal evolution in an instant when you kill something. this may seem a rather trippy view on the subject but i also believe no one has the right to kill anything. period. a rather ridgid (no pun here) stance but there you go. i keep guns to protect my family because at this point i am the only one capable of doing so. also if the world ever goes to total hell there will be plenty of 'junior teds' out there shooting up everything that moves. i don't want to be a trophy liberal. ;D
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Not a gun owner or believer here. Guess I'm a trophy to be...
I too don't believe in killing anything...
I also believe in the concept of Karma...negative acts result in negative consequences...even if it is only the fact that I will probably never support what this guy's doing, be it music or TV or whatever.
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Negative kharma? But Ted Nugent was already born as Ted Nugent, what further punishment could there be? ???
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Ted Nugent is an asshole.
And I don't even care about his music either :mrgreen:
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Forgive the young man here. He was spending more time on psychedelic solos and less on murdering bears back then.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UN2VNFpiGWo
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Wow, I had forgotten what a workout that number is for the bass. Solid bass sound throughout, too.
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Bear meat is bad biz. I don't have any problem with hunting though. Ted plays with the hunter/prey bonding thing in a weird way though, and I suspect it is intentional.
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Baited hunting its NOT hunting and if you can't track a land animal without baiting it, you're no f&cking hunter, no matter how many dittoheads you fellate daily.
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Interesting video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=anCGvfsBoFY