The Last Bass Outpost
Main Forums => The Bass Zone => Topic started by: Alanko on May 04, 2016, 02:19:56 PM
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Hello all,
Had a thought today... some videos show a band miming to a tune, and the bass in the video is clearly not the bass on tape.
For example, it sounds like a Rickenbacker on the recording, but in the video the bassist is rocking a Fender:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ztSKDbDRXc
Any other notable (or non-notable) examples of this?
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And I thought I was a stickler for being botherred when the video has no mics or instruments plugged in to anything.
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To me, it just sounds like a bass.
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for anal retentives only.
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Here's our own Chris P. in his former band, playing his former 4005 in the video, but what you're hearing is his TBird.
Chris, apologies in advance for dredging this up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw0VEcm2IlE
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for anal retentives only.
I was looking for obvious videos, as I've seen a couple but cant remember who they were by. I'm thinking a guy playing an EB-2 in the video and an Alembic-type tone on the recording. Extreme differences like that. The Sparks clip wasn't the best example.
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Definitely not obvious, but Ged has said he recorded this on the Jazz.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auLBLk4ibAk
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Oh, and don't be shocked by this one guys! ;) I recorded with my 4001CS -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Td5apoNEy8
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Is it heresy when I say that the sound of a Jazz Bass and a Ric 4001/4003 are not a million miles apart? There are commonalities such as single coils, scale (never mind that the Ric is only girlies' long scale) and maple necks. A lot of people with a clanky sound have achieved that on both Rics and Jazz basses, think of Geddy Lee, Greg Lake or that Sparks bassist who indeed always sounded carboard-cut-out Ric'ish, yet did it apparently all on a Jazz Bass.
Steve Priest jumped around between all kings of basses (Ric, JB, Ampeg see-thru, Danelectro, TBird), Teenage Tampage could be a Ric as well though he play a JB here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFV7LzDmMZ4
And a Ric with pretty much the same sound here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRv7EjjwYBI
And a lot of Love is like Oxygen videos from the time show him playing a TBird,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9XYaEsfuU0
but my bet is on a Ric with flats plucked close to the neck (or even played with a pick) like he plays one here (it would take some effort to get that sound out of TBird).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRgWvvkSvfk
And sometimes the mind tricks us: If you held a poll, everyone would vote that Martin Turner of Wishbone Ash played a TBird on Argus (that is what he is pictured with), but it is in fact a Ric 4001, he didn't even have a TBird when he recorded Argus. Before Argus, he played a Jazz Bass, still his sound on the WA debut and Pilgrimage isn't miles away from Argus. In later years, he would even play a P Bass on recordings, it still sounded Martin Turner. The TB is mainly his live bass.
JJ Burnel with his abrasive sound on those early Stranglers records, I could have sworn that that was a Ric, but the guy is a Fenderista and played a P Bass.
And, btw, there is never a no good reason to post a Sparks vid here, that band is so undervalued, they are a hidden US-national treasure. Long live the strange California Twins with a very European outlook on life.
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EQ (and other processing I suppose) can take a bass' inherant tone a long distance away from itself, so you're not wrong, Uwe. I think that LilO coulda been a TBird, but I'm not nearly the connoisseur of TBird tone you are. Tone controls, string choice and playing style can take you a long way, in addition to EQ. Not really too familiar with Ric tone (first hand) due to hating the necks.
The Sweet is an old guilty pleasure - as a punk I am supposed to abhor this sort of glam-pop, but somehow (somewhat similar to Slade, recently, not back in the day from what I remember) it's loosenned up a bit. School dances always had Ballroom Blitz in the playlist somewhere and then a bud we used to drive around with for something to do (a very American thing for the kids to do on a Friday night in the burbs) had a period where he was really into them - lots of Fox on the Run musta been every single one of his mixtapes.
One thing we can usually be sure of, is that if it's a (stock) vintage EB in the vid, chances are it wasn't on the record (when it comes to modern stuff; FYC and hipster bands you have never heard of excepted). After TBirds, I think EB0/3s are the most owned-for-the-look basses of all time.
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I doubt many bassists could tell the difference bwtween a J and a Rick on a recording. Side by side in person is a different matter.
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And sometimes the mind tricks us: If you held a poll, everyone would vote that Martin Turner of Wishbone Ash played a TBird on Argus (that is what he is pictured with), but it is in fact a Ric 4001, he didn't even have a TBird when he recorded Argus. Before Argus, he played a Jazz Bass, still his sound on the WA debut and Pilgrimage isn't miles away from Argus. In later years, he would even play a P Bass on recordings, it still sounded Martin Turner. The TB is mainly his live bass.
He already played a Ric on "Pilgrimage", "Vas Dis" for example. It has that archetypal 4001-with-a-cap -sound and when compared to "Argus" I still cannot believe it's not a T-bird. I bet Martin's memory fails on that matter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wAv0TplhNY
The title track sounds like a P-bass to me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5ylqx1zAgg
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Regarding Jazz basses and Ricks... I think modern, efficient bass amps will highlight the differences quite clearly. A modern 4003 with the bass cap removed does sound a fair bit like a Jazz, because the two pickups are cancelling frequencies. I do think there is a rubbery edge to a Rickenbacker's tone (pretty nullified by Chris Squire, mind) that comes from the slightly shorter scale and the relative positioning of both pickups closer to the neck. I think a Rickenbacker can reproduce more fundamental bass note, but that is lost if you are using an old tube amp paired with shallow cabs.
Maybe the bassist maketh the bass? I played a nice early '70s 4001 last year, and I was surprised by how low the output was, how much more treble content was on tap and how the bridge pickup could occasionally bark out clippy transients that upset the input of the amp slightly. If your circa '70s rig was all tube, and you played with a pick, then a lot of these features become beneficial. Those transients become tasty sizzle, and that lower output allows you to send a wider bandwidth signal, synonymous with cleaner more dexterous playing from prog bassists of the era? Jazz basses, with their mid scoop, also send a bit less 'heft' to a tube amp struggling to keep up with the incoming signal.
Another thought: Jon Camp is a life-long disciple of Chris Squire. He bought a 4001 to cop Chris Squire's tone, but doesn't sound a lot like Squire to my ears. Camp's tone is fuller but squelchier, and sometimes has a metallic ringing quality that sounds a bit like the intonation is off on his bass... yet he's running a 4001 in stereo through similar effects and amps. ???
Even more tangentially, I'm wondering if early bass players actually learned their technique because of the amps available? All those clean, one-note R'n'B, Motown and early Funk players have this wonderfully tight, economic playing style; is it because early tube amps would sag under the pressure of reproducing double-stops, chords etc?
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Beats me. Back then I was trying to emulate Jack Bruce's tone, which was hard to do with a Vox Spyder IV. That, and not having Jack's talent.
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"I bet Martin's memory fails on that matter. "
He has his facts down pat. The Ric got stolen/broken post Recording of Argus. WA were opening for Mott the Hoople at the time and Overend Watts helped Martin Turner out by lending him one of his broken, makeshift repaired TBirds. Martin hated it initially, but warmed to it over time. So he wanted to buy it off Overend, but Overend asked a king's ransom for it, stating how badly repaired the bass was, Martin negotiated the price down and that is the TBird he still plays today (meanwhile refinned white from the original sunburst).
Martin loves his TBird, he wouldn't forget having used it on a recording, especially with Argus as the artistic and commercial pinnacle of WA's recorded output. He's repeated over the years again and again that Argus was recorded with a Ric. When he did a re-recorded version of the whole album some years ago, he couldn't get the sound he wanted out of his beloved TBird and went through a handful of Rics until he found one (loaned from John Wetton I think, who also sang a little on the Argus re-recording, they're friendly with another, sharing a certain disdain for Andy Powell from their sequential WA days) that approximated it.
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But it sounds so different from "Pilgrimage" tracks that have the Ric. His Ric must have been modded for the "argus" session (cap removed or something) and he might have used the bridge pickup only.
Still don't believe it but what can I do. The end section of "Living Proof" just started going on my head. :D